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[philosophyguy]

As someone who watched Goko trying to fix their issues and hoped that the current status of the software was good enough, I wanted to share that I am now seriously regretting purchasing their product. Besides the UI issues like bane cards and the lobby (oh my god, the lobby), I regularly and unpredictably have to deal with issues like getting a solid black page instead of a login screen, or having the gear spin indefinitely while attempting to login.

I'm sharing this here not to complain, per se, nor to file a bug report (I've been quite busy on getsatisfaction), but simply to strongly discourage anyone who is undecided about Goko from buying their product. At this point, it's a pain, and not only has it felt like wasted dollars but it's actually dulled my love for the game Dominion.

[Morgrim7]

That was…beautiful.

[Kirian]

...I regularly and unpredictably have to deal with issues like getting a solid black page instead of a login screen, or having the gear spin indefinitely while attempting to login.

Out of interest, how many people are having these problems?  I have had this happen exactly zero times on FF or Chrome since getting each of the most recent browser updates.

[sudgy]

...I regularly and unpredictably have to deal with issues like getting a solid black page instead of a login screen, or having the gear spin indefinitely while attempting to login.

Out of interest, how many people are having these problems?  I have had this happen exactly zero times on FF or Chrome since getting each of the most recent browser updates.

I've only played a few times on Goko, and it's never happened to me.

[Jimmmmm]

I get the black screen more often than not. I was putting it down to my dodgy old computer and/or less than brilliant internet connection, but it seems others are having the same problem.

[D Bo]

I get it every time on my home laptop using Firefox for some reason. Chrome is okay though. And my other computers are all fine with Firefox. I can't figure it out.

[sudgy]

Yep, the third post completely derailed the topic.  Anyway, I'm most likely not going to buy Goko.

[ftl]

...I regularly and unpredictably have to deal with issues like getting a solid black page instead of a login screen, or having the gear spin indefinitely while attempting to login.

Out of interest, how many people are having these problems?  I have had this happen exactly zero times on FF or Chrome since getting each of the most recent browser updates.

I've had it happen sometimes. Not that often, but sometimes. Refresh usually fixes it for me. I've been bouncing around between Chrome and FF recently so I don't remember which one it was or whether it was current, but still. It happens and is annoying.

[heron]

I have issues like those in the opening post quite often, which is why I haven't bought goko's product yet. It's gotten better, in December 70% of games would never load.
But these problems shouldn't even happen; I have an up-to-date computer and my internet is reliable.

[WanderingWinder]

...I regularly and unpredictably have to deal with issues like getting a solid black page instead of a login screen, or having the gear spin indefinitely while attempting to login.

Out of interest, how many people are having these problems?  I have had this happen exactly zero times on FF or Chrome since getting each of the most recent browser updates.

I've had Goko lock up on me one time since... whenever i started trying it again. ~150 games. Not a bad rate.

[AdamH]

Ever since I got Goko I've only used it to play with IRL people. It's been fine for this.

Until last night. I tried playing with other people. I started a game that said "All Cards Except Promos" and never had to wait longer than 15 seconds to start a game. Not too bad.

Everyone I played was of pretty low level; they all seemed like they were still in the "buy lots of action cards" phase of the game, so I only lost once out of like 10 games. The games went by pretty quickly, I guess. That one loss, though, man that set my rating back. I was pleasantly surprised that one person bought a Duchy with more than $8 because buying a Province would have resulted in a loss.

I was really surprised at how many people resigned on me. I think 3 out of the 10 games went to the end. One resigned on turn 4 when he (I assume) accidentally passed me his opening Pillage when I played Masquerade. Hmmm.... One resigned before I took my first turn. I suppose it's good that they had the decency to click the resign button, though.

Hmm, that reminds me, I've been wondering if Pillage is a good opener, but so as not to derail the thread, I'm going to start a new one. See what I did there?

But the last game, my opponent "disconnected" after several turns in a row of me playing Margrave. Yeah, OK maybe that wasn't very nice, but I gotta tell you. Sitting there for five minutes before my opponent was forced to resign was not fun. Not fun at all. I didn't want to play anymore after that. In fact, I don't want to go back into the lobbies to play with strangers. After just one time. Wow.

There seems to be little incentive for people to finish games at the moment. Do people not know what resigning does to their rating? Five minutes seems a little bit excessive here, what are we waiting for if there's no possibility to reconnect?

There's no way for me to have any chance of playing a high-level opponent, or for any type of auto-match. These things have to be fixed for Goko to be playable for me. Is this still a public beta? Why did we take iso down if this is still a public beta? Why isn't this stuff fixed? Why do I need a browser extension to have a visible game log? Why hasn't Goko done this? If amateurs who don't have access to the code can do it, why can't professionals?

Needless to say, I wish I could have paid money for a completed product, and I'm regretting that there isn't a completed product out there (that I already paid money for).

[Kirian]

Note: Iso took 3 minutes for an auto disconnect.

[yuma]

For me right now, Goko is a product that I am happy to mooch off other people for. I don't own any cards and just wait until someone hosts a game that has more than just base. But right now it isn't worth the asking price, honestly I wouldn't pay $10 for it at this point.

However, iso is a product that I would have gladly spent money on. And I would have paid more than what Goko is asking for. I would have spent $100 for iso.

I think in the end what is going to keep me from buying into Goko is the question of whether or not this business can succeed in the long term. I am very skeptical that it can. And the question--and the question always pops up whenever you are dealing with something of this nature--is what happens when Goko fails to make enough money to sustain its costs and keep its investors happy and has to cut back, let go of its employees and eventually go out of business? I lose out on my money, yes?

Because right now that is where I think Goko is heading. I wish it weren't and maybe I am just being pessimistic. But right now I do not see their business model succeeding into the foreseeable future and I am not willing to spend money on something that might only be around for a little bit longer.

[Standback]

But the last game, my opponent "disconnected" after several turns in a row of me playing Margrave. Yeah, OK maybe that wasn't very nice, but I gotta tell you. Sitting there for five minutes before my opponent was forced to resign was not fun. Not fun at all. I didn't want to play anymore after that. In fact, I don't want to go back into the lobbies to play with strangers. After just one time. Wow.

On my very first attempt at a multiplayer game, my opponent did me one better: he tried to get me to quit. If he had 3 coppers to play, he would play them one by one, at 4.5 minute intervals. If I were to leave the game open and wait for him to lose without checking back, I could've been the one hit with a timeout. GAH.

All that being said, I didn't come starry-eyed into the Goko version, but I'm glad it's there. I'm a relative n00b, and I hardly have opportunities to play IRL, so an online option is very good, even if isotropic was infinitely better. And I really like having the option of playing against bots - it's an opportunity to practice, and to have quick, me-focused games, so bots are better than solitaire or multiplayer.

[sudgy]

But the last game, my opponent "disconnected" after several turns in a row of me playing Margrave. Yeah, OK maybe that wasn't very nice, but I gotta tell you. Sitting there for five minutes before my opponent was forced to resign was not fun. Not fun at all. I didn't want to play anymore after that. In fact, I don't want to go back into the lobbies to play with strangers. After just one time. Wow.

On my very first attempt at a multiplayer game, my opponent did me one better: he tried to get me to quit. If he had 3 coppers to play, he would play them one by one, at 4.5 minute intervals. If I were to leave the game open and wait for him to lose without checking back, I could've been the one hit with a timeout. GAH.

That happened to me on isotropic.  I would just do something else and wait for the "boop".  Eventually he timed out.

[Jacob marley]

As one of the shameless moochers, I have to wait for games hosted by people with all the cards, and usually with 4000+ pro ratings.  This seems to be a more dedicated group and I rarely have quitting of other such behavior.  It happens, but there are plenty of players with sportsmanlike behavior to be found.

[LastFootnote]

On my very first attempt at a multiplayer game, my opponent did me one better: he tried to get me to quit. If he had 3 coppers to play, he would play them one by one, at 4.5 minute intervals. If I were to leave the game open and wait for him to lose without checking back, I could've been the one hit with a timeout. GAH.

One solution for this would be to have a rolling clock. It could start fresh (at, say, 3 minutes) at the beginning of your turn, but playing a card would only add, say, 10 seconds to that clock.

[yudantaiteki]

So far I have not spent any money on Goko because of the lack of good auto-match.  If they ever put that in I will likely buy the whole package.  But I really miss being able to take a 15-20 minute break from work and play a game or two in that time.

Right now I only play with a group of friends from college, one of whom already purchased all the sets.

My basic impression of Goko is that it is serviceable but not exceptional.  For the weekly games I play with the college friends it functions well enough for us to play.

EDIT: I forgot, the ability to create random decks with certain restrictions is very important too.

[Eevee]

Goko's interface is absolutely infuriating. Having end turn right next to play treasures with no warning or doublecheck, and having discarding/trashing look exactly like playing makes it borderline unplayable. I'm probably 15 levels lower as a player than I was in iso because of these things. Also it not remembering my setting when I'm creating a game is mildly annoying.

And that's just the objectively terrible stuff. On top of that I hate the match making and absolutely despise not having a point counter or veto mode.

It's so badly inferior to isotropic it's not even funny. Gg dominion, you were a really fun hobby.

.. or am I just dreaming these problems? Someone tell me there is something I can do about these things!

[LastFootnote]

Goko's interface is absolutely infuriating. Having end turn right next to play treasures with no warning or doublecheck, and having discarding/trashing look exactly like playing makes it borderline unplayable. I'm probably 15 levels lower as a player than I was in iso because of these things. Also it not remembering my setting when I'm creating a game is mildly annoying.

And that's just the objectively terrible stuff. On top of that I hate the match making and absolutely despise not having a point counter or veto mode.

It's so badly inferior to isotropic it's not even funny. Gg dominion, you were a really fun hobby.

.. or am I just dreaming these problems? Someone tell me there is something I can do about these things!

Well, when you're discarding cards, they're highlighted in yellow. When you trash them, it's red. When you're playing them, it's blue. Just pay closer attention. In general, your UI issues are the result of you playing too quickly and not being used to Goko. In time you'll stop making those mistakes. It probably wouldn't even take that long.

As for no point counter, I don't care. It's cheating and the only reason iso had one built in was because you can't stop people from using a plugin to do it.

As for veto mode, good riddance. Dominion is already a great game. It doesn't need a bullshit meta-game that you play first to improve your odds.

Goko does need to fix their matchmaking/lobby situation. It's abysmal.

[Eevee]

Goko's interface is absolutely infuriating. Having end turn right next to play treasures with no warning or doublecheck, and having discarding/trashing look exactly like playing makes it borderline unplayable. I'm probably 15 levels lower as a player than I was in iso because of these things. Also it not remembering my setting when I'm creating a game is mildly annoying.

And that's just the objectively terrible stuff. On top of that I hate the match making and absolutely despise not having a point counter or veto mode.

It's so badly inferior to isotropic it's not even funny. Gg dominion, you were a really fun hobby.

.. or am I just dreaming these problems? Someone tell me there is something I can do about these things!

Well, when you're discarding cards, they're highlighted in yellow. When you trash them, it's red. When you're playing them, it's blue. Just pay closer attention. In general, your UI issues are the result of you playing too quickly and not being used to Goko. In time you'll stop making those mistakes. It probably wouldn't even take that long.

As for no point counter, I don't care. It's cheating and the only reason iso had one built in was because you can't stop people from using a plugin to do it.

As for veto mode, good riddance. Dominion is already a great game. It doesn't need a bullshit meta-game that you play first to improve your odds.

Goko does need to fix their matchmaking/lobby situation. It's abysmal.

Well, I wasn't saying people aren't allowed to like goko. I, as someone who played some 4000-5000 games on iso, probably will never reach 100 on goko, because I just don't find it nearly as fun. Sure, I could avoid most of the interface problems by paying closer attention - but I do not want to! Dominion was always something I did while I had a skype conversation or two and watched a tv-series, never something I gave 100% of my attention to (not even during tournaments). You cant play like that on goko, it doesnt flash in the tab bar when it's your turn and you'll be playing things in the wrong order (no undo for treasures) or discarding or trashing the stuff you want to play all the time unless you full attention. I dont think having a point counter is cheating if both players want to play with it (and hey, a good matchmaking system can help people find the right opponents for them so everyone gets their way!) and veto mode made the game more fun for me personally (another lovely variant, thanks iso).

But sure, I guess it's cool of you to take that tone just because we disagree on some stuff. I'm just saying "man, I think I'm giving goko a fair chance, but I just don't like it, and I don't think I ever will. And it's very sad, just so so sad, because I would have paid 10 times more to have iso as we knew it forever."

The biggest problem is that bugs arent the issue. In fact, it has never frozen on me, I can play just fine. Goko is just offering something different than what I'm looking to get from dominion. I doubt they'll ever fix that, I guess I'm just not target audience then. I doubt I'm alone with this though.

[LastFootnote]

But sure, I guess it's cool of you to take that tone just because we disagree on some stuff. I'm just saying "man, I think I'm giving goko a fair chance, but I just don't like it, and I don't think I ever will. And it's very sad, just so so sad, because I would have paid 10 times more to have iso as we knew it forever."

Hey, man, you asked what you could do about these things. I'm telling you that you could play a little slower until you get used to the interface. That's a real solution. Once you're used to it, you can go back to playing faster. I have.

My tone was angry when discussing veto mode because veto mode makes me angry. I'm not angry at you specifically. Sorry! 

[Eevee]

But sure, I guess it's cool of you to take that tone just because we disagree on some stuff. I'm just saying "man, I think I'm giving goko a fair chance, but I just don't like it, and I don't think I ever will. And it's very sad, just so so sad, because I would have paid 10 times more to have iso as we knew it forever."

Hey, man, you asked what you could do about these things. I'm telling you that you could play a little slower until you get used to the interface. That's a real solution. Once you're used to it, you can go back to playing faster. I have.

My tone was angry when discussing veto mode because veto mode makes me angry. I'm not angry at you specifically. Sorry! 

It's all good! 

I'm realizing the root of my problem is that goko offers an interface I'm not interested in. Needing to give the goko window full focus and attention to avoid mistakes like that is just not fun, not after getting spoiled with iso's flawlessness.

[AdamH]

You guys are both right pretty much everything you're saying.

...I'm paying more attention and I'm misclicking less. But that's not a reason for Goko to not make their interface better, especially when it would not only be very simple to do to, but this improved interface would make their product so much better for so many people, many of whom are very passionate about playing Dominion.

If they can't make a product that satisfies people who love the game so much, I think that's the biggest failure possible. You might say that's the hardest audience to please, but trust me, I want more than anything to like Goko Dominion and I'm trying as hard as I can. I don't think I'm asking too much.

[GigaKnight]

Ooh, ooh! Are we talking about Goko interface issues?!

LastFootnote, IMO, the Goko misclicks are 100% bad interface design.  I've played through the free Adventure mode stuff because I was curious, and I can't tell you how many times I discarded cards I meant to play because my opponent had actually played a Militia.  You say "play slower," but that's exactly the thing I hate about Goko.  I want to play *fast* and... guess where I could do that before?  Iso!  Now I have to artificially slow my pace of play to accommodate a bad (albeit pretty) interface.  Iso let me play much faster, for a variety of reasons.

Which touches on a larger issue.  I think the main reason people are disappointed in Goko has very little to do with Goko and a lot to do with the fact that Iso was so much better.  It's like we were given gourmet ice cream and now they're charging for the cheap stuff.  Sorry, I got a taste of the good stuff and now I'd happily pay for that - but I'm not going to pay for an inferior product.  That may make it sound like Iso was bad for Dominion, but the big thing it did was create an online community that really loves the game.  It's too bad the poor execution of Goko couldn't capitalize on that well.