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Author Topic: a fascinating puzzle game  (Read 56622 times)

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David

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #200 on: April 12, 2013, 03:32:05 pm »
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My current inefficient solution for the reset uses two as well, and I know it has to... hm.  Gotta take a break.  Thanks!

Why does it have to?

Because otherwise how do I stop a second reset from unresetting it?  :o

I'm not sure what to say to that other than that I have a solution (though not minimal) with only alternator.
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eHalcyon

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #201 on: April 12, 2013, 04:04:14 pm »
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My current inefficient solution for the reset uses two as well, and I know it has to... hm.  Gotta take a break.  Thanks!

Why does it have to?

Because otherwise how do I stop a second reset from unresetting it?  :o

I'm not sure what to say to that other than that I have a solution (though not minimal) with only alternator.

My mind is blown.
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-Stef-

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #202 on: April 13, 2013, 10:19:30 am »
+5

It's time to really blow your mind :)

The world David created is much more then the 60 levels that are currently supported. However, I think the concept of levels & stars only goes up to a certain point, because then machines get so big it starts being very un-fun to try to minimize them. But still fun to build them and use them as building blocks for even more complicated machines. What follows here is the most complicated machine I built so far, a "memory unit". This machine also convinced me that eventually every computable function can be solved in this world.

It uses building blocks itself that are actually levels, and I replaced them by some of my older / less efficient implementations just not to spoil levels for others.
Since the language this machine is written in isn't very readable (mild understatement), and I can't add comments inside, I'll try to explain it here in English. Probably quite a long/tough read to get though.

First of all, here is the machine I'm talking about.

TreeMem, the main component, understands two kind of input instructions:
<address>Yellow<value>Yellow                 writes <value> on <address>
<address>Greenread <address>
Both <value> and <address> are sequences of blue & red of any length.
Tree Mem consists of a single Tree Node, the root of the tree.

Tree Node has several sub components:
State Machine, which is complicated.
List Store, used to store the value at this node.
Two copies of Tree Node, one to store everything at current-address+blue and one for current-address+red.
direct4, which is used to direct balls that come out of the State Machine to either the list store or one of the sub-nodes.
(the fourth direction is never used, but it was easier to re-use an old component then to create a direct3)
State Machine can output balls to the right to determine where data is going, and output actual data on the bottom.

State Machine has another direct4 inside, because it can be in one of 4 states.
When a ball comes in from the left, it's passed onto the current state.
Whenever any state outputs a ball up, this changes the state of the state machine
Whenever any state outputs a ball right, this comes out of the right side of the state machine, thus determining where the data is going
Whenever any state outputs a ball down, this comes out of the down side of the state machine, thus it is considered data.

direct4 is also known as level 53. A ball from the right determines where balls from the left are going. blue=right, red=up, yellow=left, green=down.
This one contains 3 instances of direct2, uses 9 tiles more then necessary and isn't very pretty. But hey, it works.

List Store can remember a sequence of red/blue balls. A green ball reads, a yellow ball resets. It uses a lot more tiles then 'List', but that's because you can read this one multiple times without destroying the data.

State Ready (blue) represents the default state.
When a green ball comes in, we should read (green down) our local (yellow right) value. Then we're ready again.
When a yellow ball comes in, we should reset (yellow down) our local (yellow right) value. Then we start writing (green up)
When a red/blue ball comes in, we should pass subsequent balls to the correct sub-node (red/blue right). Apparently we're now parsing an address (yellow up).

State Write (green) implies we're writing to our local List Store.
When a blue/red ball comes in, we pass it as data.
When a yellow ball comes in, we're done writing and go back to ready state (blue up)

State Address (yellow) means we're currently parsing an address.
Whatever ball comes in, our already selected sub-node should hear about it (pass it down).
A green ball means we're done and should return to ready state (blue up)
A yellow ball means we're now going to receive a value (red up)

State Value (red)
blue/red/yellow balls should be passed to our sub-node (pass it down)
A yellow ball means we're done and should return to ready state (blue up)

Bit is known as lvl 50 (Memory) and can store one bit of information (red/blue). A green ball reads without destroying the value.

BR/Y/-/G is just some convenience component I use to split up colors.

direct2 is used to build direct4 and does half the work.
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Grujah

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #203 on: April 13, 2013, 10:52:44 am »
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I've two 4 tile solutions for 47 (init), and one of them almost solves 48 (reset init), but best I can do for 48 is 18 tiles....

I know how you feel.  My best for 48 is 11 tiles, but the high score is 6!  And it actually matters quite a bit to me, because I use that solution as a custom tile in many subsequent solutions.

What is your second 4 tile solution to 47?  The one I have uses spinner, alternating spinner and two arrows, one of which could be a spinner or a diagonal just to get the ball moving up..

I have a yet another 4-tile solution
http://xorballs.dskl.net/#3,init,[39,Extra%20one:443488543585]

My current inefficient solution for the reset uses two as well, and I know it has to... hm.  Gotta take a break.  Thanks!

Why does it have to?

Because otherwise how do I stop a second reset from unresetting it?  :o

I'm not sure what to say to that other than that I have a solution (though not minimal) with only alternator.

My mind is blown.

I just checked, I also used 1 alternator (and 18 tiles total). Second reset problem is easily solved :P
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 11:00:44 am by Grujah »
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David

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #204 on: April 13, 2013, 11:19:51 am »
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It's time to really blow your mind :)

Alright, here's my prime number generator. http://goo.gl/t6qfS
It contains Init Reset in 6 tiles so don't look at that custom tile if you want to solve it yourself.
The input is an endless stream of balls from the left. For each ball from the left one comes out on the right. The first output says whether 2 is a prime number, the second output says whether 3 is a prime number, then 4, 5, 6, etc.
Blue means prime, red means not prime.
I personally think it's not too bad to read. See if you can figure out how it works.
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Grujah

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #205 on: April 13, 2013, 12:42:51 pm »
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Almost done with 58 (and for a change, got a clean-y solution). But, why is it called "List" and not "Buffer" ?
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David

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #206 on: April 13, 2013, 12:58:59 pm »
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I didn't give it too much thought. Buffer sounds fine as well.
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eHalcyon

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #207 on: April 13, 2013, 01:48:31 pm »
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It's time to really blow your mind :)

Alright, here's my prime number generator. http://goo.gl/t6qfS
It contains Init Reset in 6 tiles so don't look at that custom tile if you want to solve it yourself.
The input is an endless stream of balls from the left. For each ball from the left one comes out on the right. The first output says whether 2 is a prime number, the second output says whether 3 is a prime number, then 4, 5, 6, etc.
Blue means prime, red means not prime.
I personally think it's not too bad to read. See if you can figure out how it works.

Temptation!
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GendoIkari

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #208 on: April 13, 2013, 03:29:53 pm »
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Minor bug, dunno if it's been mentioned here yet. After loading the game a second time, the level selector window doesn't show the star in the previous levels until after you click to go to each level. Not sure if the star means "complete" or "got 3 stars."
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David

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #209 on: April 13, 2013, 03:35:56 pm »
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I don't see what you mean. Which browser? I should mention that I only ever test on Google Chrome.

The color of the star indicates how many stars you got for that level.
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GendoIkari

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #210 on: April 14, 2013, 11:14:49 pm »
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I don't see what you mean. Which browser? I should mention that I only ever test on Google Chrome.

The color of the star indicates how many stars you got for that level.

Chrome. Basically, when I re-entered the game, I didn't see any stars on any of the levels in the level list. After I clicked a level to go back to it, it would have a star.

*Edit* Just opened it up on another computer, loading my saved game from Google... didn't see the issue. I could have just been mistaken...
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 09:28:13 am by GendoIkari »
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-Stef-

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #211 on: April 15, 2013, 11:14:00 am »
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a new level was added yesterday!  :)

binary counting.... sure feels like a program counter.
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Grujah

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #212 on: April 15, 2013, 01:31:39 pm »
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58 was surprisingly easy. 59 I have not started yet, but I have few ideas.
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shraeye

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #213 on: April 16, 2013, 01:55:38 am »
+1

I am hooked.
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shraeye

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #214 on: April 16, 2013, 12:08:43 pm »
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The customizable tiles are killing me.  How do I move from editing a custom tile, to actually placing it in the field to make a main program with sub-routines?

I can't ever seem to unselect the custom tiles, so I end up with crazy recursion going on.

Do I have to make a custom tile that is simply the shell that executes all the smaller programs?  How the heck does this affect the "number of tiles" that I've used?
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jonts26

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #215 on: April 16, 2013, 12:15:37 pm »
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Do I have to make a custom tile that is simply the shell that executes all the smaller programs?  How the heck does this affect the "number of tiles" that I've used?

Yes. Have one main program and use the other custom tiles as functions that get 'called'.

How the heck does this affect the "number of tiles" that I've used?

Placing n copies of a custom tiles with m tiles in it will count as n+m tiles used.
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eHalcyon

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #216 on: April 16, 2013, 12:34:02 pm »
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How the heck does this affect the "number of tiles" that I've used?

Placing n copies of a custom tiles with m tiles in it will count as n+m tiles used.

When you execute your solution, it will count the number of tiles in the "main" tile and also add the number of tiles in any custom tile used therein.  It will only count it once, which means you can be more efficient with tile count if you have a large component that needs repeating.

Also a nice effect is that you can keep custom tiles that don't get used in the main solution and it won't unfairly bloat your score.  This is nice when you are trying to make a different solution which is just not quite there yet.
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shraeye

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #217 on: April 16, 2013, 12:57:36 pm »
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I keep accidentally deleting these things; I guess I just need to be more careful with everything.
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eHalcyon

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #218 on: April 17, 2013, 01:00:35 am »
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I found the 6 tile solution to 48! :D
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AHoppy

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #219 on: April 17, 2013, 12:58:21 pm »
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I found the 6 tile solution to 48! :D
:( I'm straight up stuck on 48... do you use the 4 tile solution to 47?

jonts26

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #220 on: April 17, 2013, 01:22:56 pm »
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I found the 6 tile solution to 48! :D
:( I'm straight up stuck on 48... do you use the 4 tile solution to 47?

There are a number of 4-tile solutions to 47 that all work on the same principal. Any should work as a starting point for 48, but some will be more efficient I think. My first solution for 48 had like 20 tiles and balls moving all over the place.
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shraeye

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #221 on: April 18, 2013, 12:08:58 pm »
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ahhhhhh!!!1 rawrrrr!!! I just got with three stars the puzzle that makes 1 turn into 37.  I've been playing with that one for ages, and got stuck at 17 tiles.  A new idea gave me 16 tiles, with an obvious optimization to 14 tiles.
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jonts26

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #222 on: April 18, 2013, 12:47:03 pm »
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I rather like my solution for that puzzle so I'm curious if others took the same approach. Not much of a spoiler but I used custom tiles which were variations of the level 18 (triple) solution.
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-Stef-

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #223 on: April 18, 2013, 03:21:13 pm »
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ahhhhhh!!!1 rawrrrr!!! I just got with three stars the puzzle that makes 1 turn into 37.  I've been playing with that one for ages, and got stuck at 17 tiles.  A new idea gave me 16 tiles, with an obvious optimization to 14 tiles.

Oh gosh. Am I sorry to say this. But this discussion made me look back at my solution for this level, and thought hey, wait a second, can't I get rid of that tile right there...
So I now have a 13 tile solution for 4 stars and we'll both lose a star pretty soon.
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-Stef-

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Re: a fascinating puzzle game
« Reply #224 on: April 18, 2013, 03:24:39 pm »
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ahhhhhh!!!1 rawrrrr!!! I just got with three stars the puzzle that makes 1 turn into 37.  I've been playing with that one for ages, and got stuck at 17 tiles.  A new idea gave me 16 tiles, with an obvious optimization to 14 tiles.

Oh gosh. Am I sorry to say this. But this discussion made me look back at my solution for this level, and thought hey, wait a second, can't I get rid of that tile right there...
So I now have a 13 tile solution for 4 stars and we'll both lose a star pretty soon.

Oops. That didn't last either. I just found a 12 tile solution!  :)
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