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Insomniac

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2013, 01:20:05 am »
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Ok. I'll give that a try. What about CDR?  The way I've been playing him is qew then max q so as to minimize q cool down, while building items up to 40%CDR. But maybe this is unnecessary / suboptimal?

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/all-about-blitzcrank-support-ad-ap-jungle-162242
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popsofctown

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2013, 03:09:41 pm »
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What skill ranges are you guys?  I might get back into League this summer.  My peak rating is 1400 but that was soo long ago, I'm probably like a 1000 player now
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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2013, 03:26:22 pm »
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Oh nice, just saw this thread.  You can find me by my alt name (Luckyfin) on LoL.  I don't play too often anymore, managed to get gold last season by playing Skarner.  When I do play now I like to go in the jungle and play someone like J4.
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Insomniac

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2013, 03:35:00 pm »
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What skill ranges are you guys?  I might get back into League this summer.  My peak rating is 1400 but that was soo long ago, I'm probably like a 1000 player now

ELO is gone season 3, so I couldn't tell you (I started this season)
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popsofctown

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2013, 05:03:17 pm »
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What do you mean "elo is gone"?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2013, 08:46:15 pm »
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Elo has been replaced with matchmaking rating(mmr) which I am very happy about. If anyone knows, while elo is a great system because it changes more or less based on if you win or lose to a better or worse opponent. However this system was designed for chess, a 1 v 1 game and in lol the system becomes skewed the more you play with others who are not your skill level. Mmr now calculates the estimated chance of you winning and losing due to the entire teamatchup and then changes more or less according to whether you overcame a challenge or rode out an easy win.

The only sad thing is this mmr is hidden to all players and what you see when you win or lose a game is a gain or loss of league points. You are placed into a league, bronze/silver/gold/diamond/platinum/challenger and further into a division, 5/4/3/2/1. When you gain 100 league points you enter a best of three series which will decide whether you move up from say division 2 to 1, or stay in division 2. If you stay you do not start over but are placed back in division 2 with 100 - the league points lost in the two series games. If you move up you are placed in division 1 with zero league points. The same thing happened to move up in leagues, silver to gold, but it is a best of 5.

Your placement in teams this season is much better than before due to mmr but the amount of league points you get is calculated using a variety of methods riot has kept secret. Some speculation and hints given by Lyte are that the system will give you decreasing rewards if you have recently entered a division and are approaching the series. This is to make sure you pay an average of 10 games minimum in a division, if 8 of these are wins you should get a series. The issue is obviously if you win the first 8, you shouldn't have to play 2 more to get your series. So many people say this season is very hard to tell what your actual skill level is.

Last season I was a 1550 gold payer and this season I am hovering at silver 1 for now. I have tried out for a semi pro team and had been estimated as a diamond level ad carry but I play the game misty for fun and would say the group I play with is all between 1300 and 1500.

My in game name is the same as my username here, feel free to friend me for anything. I mainly have a huge passion for the game and just want to have fun playing with as many people as possible. I frequently play with a group of people on vent that play arams because there are more than 5 of us, the more the merrier!
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

popsofctown

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2013, 09:24:11 pm »
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That sounds kind of silly and fishy to me.  The only realistic accuracy gains would be at small sample sizes.  Well then again maybe that is a good idea, since player skill can fluctuate so rapidly based on how they adapt to patches.  I remember that one time Jax was OP, so teams were trying to get this casual player who had just played nothing but Jax since beta on their team so much haha...


Someone send me a pm if they ever make viegar playable and competitive
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GigaKnight

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2013, 12:39:26 am »
+1

Trashing an opponent's gold is a very close approximation to gaining a gold for yourself.

That's already not very true in 2-player Dominion and becomes even more inaccurate as you increase the number of players.  DotA / LoL is 5v5 and an analogous choice has very different results.  In DotA, denying presents the choice of "do I get +gold or do I prevent 1 opponent from getting +gold".

Let's look at what this means.  It's a hyper-simplified analysis but I think it illustrates the difference:

Let's look at a hypothetical four-player MOBA game.  Let's say everybody kills a creep for 5 gold every X seconds.  With no denying, everybody in this fairy-tale game advances in lock-step gaining gold, like so:

Player 1 (Team 1): 5, 10, 15, 20...
Player 2 (Team 1): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Player 3 (Team 2): 5, 10, 15, 20...
Player 4 (Team 2): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Now let's say each player has the option of forfeiting a creep kill to prevent an opponent from gaining 5 gold.  Player 1 decided to do this to player 3  for the first two creep waves and the rest continue on naively.  The only difference for player 3 is that he tries to kill those first two creeps and misses because player 1 denied him.

Player 1 (Team 1): 0, 0, 5, 10...
Player 2 (Team 1): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Player 3 (Team 2): 0, 0, 5, 10...
Player 4 (Team 2): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Now, you might say "the teams have the same overall gold now" but distribution of gold is very important in a MOBA.  You want to guide the money to your item-dependent characters so they can get those crucial items as soon as possible.  Player 3 is now behind the curve because of Player 1's sacrifice.  If player 1 is a support / utility character, he doesn't need as much gold anyway; Team 1 is now in the "lead".

And the reality is much more complicated than this.  There are 5 opponents in DotA and you have lots of competing choices all the time.  When choosing to last hit or deny, you have to ask yourself if you want to gain gold relative to 5 opponents or keep just one of them down.  The answer depends on your role and the situation.







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Insomniac

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2013, 09:37:37 am »
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Someone send me a pm if they ever make viegar playable and competitive

Dunno when you last played but he already is, there is at least 1 pro who mains Veigar and who has for a long time.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2013, 01:29:27 pm »
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Someone send me a pm if they ever make viegar playable and competitive

Dunno when you last played but he already is, there is at least 1 pro who mains Veigar and who has for a long time.

Yea, I would say almost every champion is playable, competitive viability is sort of a silly question. I mean at the elo I am at blitz is banned every game, at high elo he is rarely banned. At low elo, everychampion is viable due to taking advantage of the enemy mistakes, at my elo very few champions are viable because most players expect you to only play the "op" champions and are less inclined to try and work well with you if you play  less popular champions. At high elo most champions are viable as long as you are good with them, there are a few exceptions that are champions in need of buffs, viegar is not one of them.

All that being said man that passive is outdated...
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Axxle

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2013, 01:42:00 pm »
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not sure wether you were aware of that, but there was actually a custom dota 1 map that allowed to do such a thing, and its upcoming for dota 2
OMGWTF mode was one of my favorites to play!
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mcmcsalot

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2013, 09:36:52 am »
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I have a question, anyone else find that Skype lags Lol when they run them both. I have always used vent because when I was introduced to the game(via rl friends) they being big games had met people online and played with people they knew from wow, so one if them had a vent server(they cost money) that we could all use. It's what I because used to and refused to use Skype because it had no push to talk, but with more and more of my friends using Skype I have been using it more and luckily figured out a way(googled) to set up push to talk. You just set up a push to mute button then manually mute your mic and it acts as a push to unmute/talk. Anyway what I have noticed is it lags my league quite a bit where as vent lets me run at 60 fps at all times. So I was just wondering if anyone else has this problem.

*note* the lag is not much, it bounces me around 40-50 fps which is fine but being used to perfect fps it throws off my timing like crazy.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

theory

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2013, 10:35:40 am »
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It happens on my wife's laptop.  I remember googling and someone suggested tinkering with some Skype settings.
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popsofctown

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #63 on: April 29, 2013, 08:46:40 pm »
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Trashing an opponent's gold is a very close approximation to gaining a gold for yourself.

That's already not very true in 2-player Dominion and becomes even more inaccurate as you increase the number of players.  DotA / LoL is 5v5 and an analogous choice has very different results.  In DotA, denying presents the choice of "do I get +gold or do I prevent 1 opponent from getting +gold".

Let's look at what this means.  It's a hyper-simplified analysis but I think it illustrates the difference:

Let's look at a hypothetical four-player MOBA game.  Let's say everybody kills a creep for 5 gold every X seconds.  With no denying, everybody in this fairy-tale game advances in lock-step gaining gold, like so:

Player 1 (Team 1): 5, 10, 15, 20...
Player 2 (Team 1): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Player 3 (Team 2): 5, 10, 15, 20...
Player 4 (Team 2): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Now let's say each player has the option of forfeiting a creep kill to prevent an opponent from gaining 5 gold.  Player 1 decided to do this to player 3  for the first two creep waves and the rest continue on naively.  The only difference for player 3 is that he tries to kill those first two creeps and misses because player 1 denied him.

Player 1 (Team 1): 0, 0, 5, 10...
Player 2 (Team 1): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Player 3 (Team 2): 0, 0, 5, 10...
Player 4 (Team 2): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Now, you might say "the teams have the same overall gold now" but distribution of gold is very important in a MOBA.  You want to guide the money to your item-dependent characters so they can get those crucial items as soon as possible.  Player 3 is now behind the curve because of Player 1's sacrifice.  If player 1 is a support / utility character, he doesn't need as much gold anyway; Team 1 is now in the "lead".

And the reality is much more complicated than this.  There are 5 opponents in DotA and you have lots of competing choices all the time.  When choosing to last hit or deny, you have to ask yourself if you want to gain gold relative to 5 opponents or keep just one of them down.  The answer depends on your role and the situation.
I'm rather confused.  It seems like you're talking past me.  Denying a carry creep is going to be rather equivalent to killing a creep as carry.  Denying a support's creep kill is going to be pretty equivalent to getting a creep kill as support. 

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GigaKnight

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2013, 01:31:49 pm »
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Trashing an opponent's gold is a very close approximation to gaining a gold for yourself.

That's already not very true in 2-player Dominion and becomes even more inaccurate as you increase the number of players.  DotA / LoL is 5v5 and an analogous choice has very different results.  In DotA, denying presents the choice of "do I get +gold or do I prevent 1 opponent from getting +gold".

Let's look at what this means.  It's a hyper-simplified analysis but I think it illustrates the difference:

Let's look at a hypothetical four-player MOBA game.  Let's say everybody kills a creep for 5 gold every X seconds.  With no denying, everybody in this fairy-tale game advances in lock-step gaining gold, like so:

Player 1 (Team 1): 5, 10, 15, 20...
Player 2 (Team 1): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Player 3 (Team 2): 5, 10, 15, 20...
Player 4 (Team 2): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Now let's say each player has the option of forfeiting a creep kill to prevent an opponent from gaining 5 gold.  Player 1 decided to do this to player 3  for the first two creep waves and the rest continue on naively.  The only difference for player 3 is that he tries to kill those first two creeps and misses because player 1 denied him.

Player 1 (Team 1): 0, 0, 5, 10...
Player 2 (Team 1): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Player 3 (Team 2): 0, 0, 5, 10...
Player 4 (Team 2): 5, 10, 15, 20...

Now, you might say "the teams have the same overall gold now" but distribution of gold is very important in a MOBA.  You want to guide the money to your item-dependent characters so they can get those crucial items as soon as possible.  Player 3 is now behind the curve because of Player 1's sacrifice.  If player 1 is a support / utility character, he doesn't need as much gold anyway; Team 1 is now in the "lead".

And the reality is much more complicated than this.  There are 5 opponents in DotA and you have lots of competing choices all the time.  When choosing to last hit or deny, you have to ask yourself if you want to gain gold relative to 5 opponents or keep just one of them down.  The answer depends on your role and the situation.
I'm rather confused.  It seems like you're talking past me.  Denying a carry creep is going to be rather equivalent to killing a creep as carry.  Denying a support's creep kill is going to be pretty equivalent to getting a creep kill as support.

So your original statement is quoted up there and it's much more general than that.  I think you've shifted the target on me, but that's OK, because even zooming in on a specific area, the difference matters.

Let's look carries. Denying a carry creep delays their items.  A carry killing a creep accelerates his items.  Having or not having an item affects how you interact with all 5 opponents.  For example, DotA has an item called the Black King Bar (BKB) that grants magic immunity for a little bit.  Getting an early BKB might allow your carry to make the difference in a team fight if, for example, they have a disable-heavy team comp.  You want to farm a BKB as fast as possible because you're going to gain precious seconds where you can't be stunned.  That can easily make a bigger difference than slowing the single opponent carry.  The general point is that every hero is different and has different item goals depending on who they face; the times at which they reach those goals can have varying and important impacts on the game.

Take a step back to Dominion.  And we'll go really simple.  Let's say we're both going BM and we each have exactly one Gold.  Now it's my turn and I can either trash yours or gain another Gold.  I'm trashing your Gold every time!  Because Gold begets Gold; making you deal with the initial $6 hump again is huge.  Now imagine I'm going for an engine instead of BM - maybe I don't even want a Gold to begin with!

I'm trying to illustrate that timing, strategy, and opponents all have a big impact on this kind of decision.  But I also I realize I'm trying to do this with specific examples, which are easy to overlook because you can always say "but that doesn't happen that much".  If you're not yet convinced, maybe a better way to approach this is to have you justify this statement further:

Trashing an opponent's gold is a very close approximation to gaining a gold for yourself.

That may help us reach the fundamental disagreement sooner.
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Watno

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2013, 01:35:38 pm »
0

Deny vs Lasthit is rather:
Do i antipush the lane and deny the opponent experience, or do i push the lane and get gold.
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GigaKnight

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2013, 01:37:49 pm »
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Deny vs Lasthit is rather:
Do i antipush the lane and deny the opponent experience, or do i push the lane and get gold.

Yeah, I agree this yet another way the difference matters.
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popsofctown

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2013, 04:23:09 pm »
0

Trashing an opponent's gold is better than gaining a gold, oftentimes.  But trashing an opponent's Silver is miles worse than gaining a gold.

That's the kind of gross approximation I was intending to convey in the first place. 
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Grujah

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2013, 04:47:00 pm »
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I'm curious as to what roles everyone likes to play and why.

Personally I have played long enough I can play every role but I have only mained(played exclusively for about 6-9 months) top, adc, jungle in that order. Recently I have been filling in premades with friends attempting to expand my champion pool and team comp knowledge, but I do think it has weakened my play overall.

So I think I would consider myself as a top laner, primarily focusing on ad bruisers. I think the reason I fell in love with this role was when I learned to play I played pantheon exclusively for about 500 games. This was back before the meta of adc/support bot lane. Most often people played an adc mid and kill lanes top and bottom, yes jungle was rare as only Warwick and fiddle could do it. So I played pantheon bottom with my friend playing rammus until I really learned the game. My friend stopped playing and I took pantheon to the mid lane until he became a useless champion(or at least the useless past 25 min champ he is now) As with the meta change I found myself playing similar champions that were now meant to play top lanes, jax, wukong, renecton, jarvan. Also all these guys have some sort of dash.

Around this time my girlfriend got interested in league(she was sick of me not spending any time with her) and decided to play. So I picked up adc to be able to lane with her as support. I started out with graves, and gradually picked up all the other as they are all kind of the same.

I started jungling so that my gf could play mid(she liked the "birdy") and I could still interact with her all the time. Shaco was my favorite as he had that classic blink which I love and think makes any champion fun to play. I switched over to amumu when I realized he was the strongest champion in the game lol.

That's just a summary obviously I have played almost every champion and mained many more, but I think that's a good description of we're I like to play and why, so what about you guys?

Ugh. This is one thing I cannot understand. You have like ~100 or what number of champs, and you play one exclusively. It seems damn boring. Like playing same M:TG deck for the whole year (which I do, and it sucks)
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theory

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2013, 05:08:50 pm »
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I know people with ~100+ board games, and they play Dominion exclusively ... :-)
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Watno

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2013, 05:10:08 pm »
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..but they probably dont always buy the same cards.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2013, 06:41:02 pm »
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I'm curious as to what roles everyone likes to play and why.

Personally I have played long enough I can play every role but I have only mained(played exclusively for about 6-9 months) top, adc, jungle in that order. Recently I have been filling in premades with friends attempting to expand my champion pool and team comp knowledge, but I do think it has weakened my play overall.

So I think I would consider myself as a top laner, primarily focusing on ad bruisers. I think the reason I fell in love with this role was when I learned to play I played pantheon exclusively for about 500 games. This was back before the meta of adc/support bot lane. Most often people played an adc mid and kill lanes top and bottom, yes jungle was rare as only Warwick and fiddle could do it. So I played pantheon bottom with my friend playing rammus until I really learned the game. My friend stopped playing and I took pantheon to the mid lane until he became a useless champion(or at least the useless past 25 min champ he is now) As with the meta change I found myself playing similar champions that were now meant to play top lanes, jax, wukong, renecton, jarvan. Also all these guys have some sort of dash.

Around this time my girlfriend got interested in league(she was sick of me not spending any time with her) and decided to play. So I picked up adc to be able to lane with her as support. I started out with graves, and gradually picked up all the other as they are all kind of the same.

I started jungling so that my gf could play mid(she liked the "birdy") and I could still interact with her all the time. Shaco was my favorite as he had that classic blink which I love and think makes any champion fun to play. I switched over to amumu when I realized he was the strongest champion in the game lol.

That's just a summary obviously I have played almost every champion and mained many more, but I think that's a good description of we're I like to play and why, so what about you guys?

Ugh. This is one thing I cannot understand. You have like ~100 or what number of champs, and you play one exclusively. It seems damn boring. Like playing same M:TG deck for the whole year (which I do, and it sucks)

Did you read my post? I have bolded a few things.

I have played league for 4 years now, during that time I have played almost every single champion.
I mention when I started I played pantheon exclusively. This is because league is a rather difficult game to master and it is very hard for new players to pick up new champions while still being a very mechanically sound player. So I have found with most new players it is typical to play a single champion(usually a mechanically simple one) and play it for at least 200 games before moving on to the learning of more champions.
In my post I was attempting to summarize the main thematic champions and roles I played which is a very small number.
I mention that I have mained top/adc/jungle. That means that during the past 4 years I took the time to play one role and around 4-6 champions exclusively for around 6-9 months to perfect my skills in the role with those champions.
Lastly I mention I have played waay more than just this, so what part of my post did you read?
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

popsofctown

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #72 on: May 04, 2013, 04:49:09 pm »
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..but they probably dont always buy the same cards.
Choosing what cards to buy would be comparable to buying items in League, I think.

"They probably don't always play the same kingdom" seems like a better criticism.
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Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

theory

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2013, 05:32:55 pm »
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Execution in LoL is a lot more complex than executing a Dominion deck.  It makes sense to practice a champion over and over again to perfect the mechanics; there are no corresponding mechanics in Dominion to practice.
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Insomniac

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #74 on: May 05, 2013, 11:04:57 am »
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Execution in LoL is a lot more complex than executing a Dominion deck.  It makes sense to practice a champion over and over again to perfect the mechanics; there are no corresponding mechanics in Dominion to practice.

I agree and disagree I found that in playing a large swath of characters you learn alot of the ideas of the game faster, for instance without looking at a build I could give you a decent generic build for any character as long as I knew if they were a bruiser/jungler/ap/adc/support this in turn allowed me to better understand how to build in a certain match, I know this character builds warmogs so i should build botrk for example
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"It is one of [Insomniacs] badges of pride that he will bus anyone, at any time, and he has done it over and over on day 1. I am completely serious, it is like the biggest part of his meta." - Dsell
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