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Author Topic: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug  (Read 2459 times)

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atariman486

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Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« on: April 05, 2013, 12:58:05 pm »
0

See the game log here:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201304/05/game-20130405-095109-8c9bbd33.html

On turn 13, I applied the dogma of Machine Tools - Draw and score a card equal in value to the highest card in your score pile. The highest in my pile was a 2, and he had nothing scored. We had an equal number of red factory icons, so the effect was shared, but I would take that to be he has nothing in his score pile so draws and scores nothing. Instead, he drew and scored a 2. It looks like it applied the "your" clause to my score pile even for his sharing.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 01:00:22 pm »
+1

If you have nothing in your score pile, the value of the highest card in your score pile is treated as 0. This means he tried to score a 0 but there were none, so he tried a 1. Presumably that pile was empty too so he scored a 2.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2013, 01:01:08 pm »
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Was the [1] pile empty? I think if you have no score pile, the highest value in your score pile is undefined and defaults to 0.
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theory

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2013, 01:15:18 pm »
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This also works for Education: if you have only one card in your score pile, you can return it to draw a card two higher than [ 0 ].
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atariman486

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2013, 11:44:13 pm »
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Aha! Makes sense. Thanks for the explanations.
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ipofanes

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2013, 04:43:53 am »
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Outside the context of Innovation, the maximum of the empty set is set to minus infinity often, which would not matter for Machine Tools but for Education.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2013, 09:11:30 am »
+1

Outside the context of Innovation, the maximum of the empty set is set to minus infinity often, which would not matter for Machine Tools but for Education.

Is the minimum of the empty set positive infinity?
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ipofanes

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2013, 01:12:50 pm »
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Outside the context of Innovation, the maximum of the empty set is set to minus infinity often, which would not matter for Machine Tools but for Education.

Is the minimum of the empty set positive infinity?

That's a sometimes useful definition.
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popsofctown

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2013, 03:41:26 pm »
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Outside the context of Innovation, the maximum of the empty set is set to minus infinity often, which would not matter for Machine Tools but for Education.
That would make Education draw 1's instead of 2's wouldn't it?   -(inf)+2= -(inf).

.....the -15 pile is empty
.....the -14 pile is empty
.....
.....the -1 piles is empty
.....the 0 pile is empty
.....there is an age 1 card.  Draw it.
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ipofanes

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2013, 04:19:41 pm »
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Yes, by my intuition drawing a [2] with Education would be a bit of a stretch, and quite a bit less geeky. It's just as well to define "no card" as "a \[0\]", of course.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 04:20:44 pm by ipofanes »
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AngelKurisu

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2013, 12:09:55 pm »
+1

For the purposes of Innovation, max({}) = 0.  :P
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carstimon

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2013, 01:00:40 am »
+1

That would make Education draw 1's instead of 2's wouldn't it?   -(inf)+2= -(inf).

.....the -15 pile is empty
.....the -14 pile is empty
.....
.....the -1 piles is empty
.....the 0 pile is empty
.....there is an age 1 card.  Draw it.
Well by that logic, wouldn't it just never resolve?  Using -(inf) + 1 = -(inf):

Education says to draw a card of max{{}) = -(inf)
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 01:01:46 am by carstimon »
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qmech

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Re: Machine Tools Sharing - Possible Bug
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 03:52:22 am »
+1

That would make Education draw 1's instead of 2's wouldn't it?   -(inf)+2= -(inf).

.....the -15 pile is empty
.....the -14 pile is empty
.....
.....the -1 piles is empty
.....the 0 pile is empty
.....there is an age 1 card.  Draw it.
Well by that logic, wouldn't it just never resolve?  Using -(inf) + 1 = -(inf):

Education says to draw a card of max{{}) = -(inf)
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...

You have to interpret is as "Draw from the least non-empty pile greater than ..." instead.
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