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Author Topic: Partnership Dominion  (Read 3268 times)

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AHoppy

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2015, 05:28:59 pm »
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I've played this once, but I'll suggest next time I play with 4 we try this. The rules look good to me, the only thing I do differently is you can discuss strategy before the game begins, but once the game starts you can't tell your partner what you're going to do on your turn or what to buy you. Granted, I've only played this way once, but it added an element of tension and making sure you know both decks well and have a well thought out strategy from the start

Ankenaut

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2017, 09:23:56 am »
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What we played was, you sit opposite your partner. The only differences from normal Dominion are:

1) You combine VP with your partner at the end of the game to see which team wins.
2) Attack cards don't affect your partner (even if you would rather they did). It's like your partner has a Lighthouse in play on your turns.

And here's the one that makes it really neat:

3) Any time you would gain a card, your partner gains it instead, to the same place you would have gained it. (Pretend this works; it probably technically doesn't.)

Just coming here to say that my 4-player group played some games with similar rules. Beforehand, I didn't think to come look and see if there were already rules proposed, but with our variation, #3 was instead

3) Any time you would buy a non-Victory card, your partner gains it instead, to the same place you would have gained it.

By only sending bought cards across the table instead of all gained cards, it helps some of the confusion around gaining rules, and it adds a little more variation in that your deck is doing some things for you and some for your partner. By having your deck keep the Victory cards it buys, you can't just have the good deck keep singing while the other takes all the dead cards. I think this might help with some of the difficulties raised in this thread.
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Asper

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2017, 10:39:52 am »
+2

I think it'd be fine to limit the additional rules to:
1 Attack cards you play do not affect your partner
2 You add up VP at the end.

So IGG, Raid & Noble Brigand are a tad worse, but whatever. Saves all that rules issues.
I admit the ability to have your partner gain your cards is fun, though. Maybe you can still have that fun by creating specific cards? I mean, it won't pay to have them actually printed, but it'd make a nice thought experiment. Here we go:

Collaboratory, 5$, Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Your partner draws a card.

Coworkshop, 3$, Action
Your partner gains a card costing up to 4$. (Yes, I'm aware this is basically the OP rules implemented on per-card basis)

Strategist, 5$, Action-Duration
Discard your hand. If you discard any cards this way, at the start of your partner's turn, they get +5 Cards, +1 Action, +1 Buy

Baroness, 4$, Action
Choose one:
+2$;
Your partner gains a Duchy.

Penduler, 5$, Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1$
Put this in your partner's discard pile.

Ankenaut

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2017, 11:17:10 am »
+1

I mean, it won't pay to have them actually printed, but it'd make a nice thought experiment.

Seems like a good idea to me. I wouldn't mind a whole expansion designed just for playing with partners, and I would print it off because I play lots of 4-player games.

The pricing of cards like this gets interesting. You have Collaboratory listed at $5 which is the same as Laboratory. Should it cost $4 because it has a delayed payoff like Caravan?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 11:21:12 am by Ankenaut »
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Asper

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2017, 01:21:05 pm »
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Should it cost $4 because it has a delayed payoff like Caravan?

I have absolutely no idea. Worth noting, it's also vulnerable to discard attacks.
Maybe it could give +1 Buy to the player themselves?
I'll just throw in a few more:

Conman, Action, 3$
Either you gain a Copper or your partner does, your choice.
Either you gain a card costing up to 6$ or your partner does, your choice.


Dealer, Action, 4$
+1 Action
Your partner may reveal a card costing up to 6$ from their hand. Gain a copy of it.


Maverick, Action 4$
Your partner may reveal an Action card from their hand. Choose one:
+1 Action;
Play this as if it was the revealed card and this is that card until it leaves play.
(Edit: This probably shouldn't cost more than 4$ compared to BoM...)

Steeple, Action, 2$
Draw cards until you have 6 in hand.
Your partner may trash a card from their hand.


Wagons, Action, 4$
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Your partner may gain a Silver.

Asper

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2017, 04:23:30 pm »
+2

So I know this isn't well balanced yet, but I mocked up some of the above just in case anybody cares. (Click to enlarge)

mad4math

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2017, 11:35:28 pm »
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My IRL play group has independently came up with and played our own bughouse dominion variant before as well.
Our rules were a bit different:
We play with two separate games; each game has one player from each team.

When you gain a card, only you resolve the when-gain effects, and then if the card is still yours, you move it to the corresponding location of your partner in their game. Your partner does not "gain" the card and does not trigger any when gain effects. (i.e., if you gain a card, then reveal watchtower to topdeck it, you would move it to the top of your partner's deck. Your partner cannot reveal a watchtower in response to you gaining a card, even though their deck will recieve the card.)

Your team's score is the product, not sum, of your individual scores. This means that the "one player eats all the green, the other player builds an engine to buy it" strategy does not work, and if the boards have very unequal scoring potential, you must focus on both.

Both games play simultaneously, in order to speed things up. However, you can never be taking a turn at the same time as your partner, so the turns of the games stay in sync. At the beginning of the game, we arbitrarily designate one of the games to have "timing priority", so if there is a race condition, or both active players want to stall, the active player in the game with timing priority decides the order of events.

The game ends if either game's end condition is met.
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Ankenaut

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2017, 03:50:27 pm »
+1

I like Investment, but it seems better than Gold, so I feel like it ought to cost more.
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schadd

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2017, 04:02:34 pm »
+1

"okay who wants to be the VP mule"
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Asper

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2017, 11:28:18 pm »
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"okay who wants to be the VP mule"

I guess it makes more sense when you multiply partner's VP. But yeah, it's still a problem. Also, it just occured to me that if both partners go negative they actually have more points than a positive-negative team. Uh, so I guess I prefer the sum version for now.

I like Investment, but it seems better than Gold, so I feel like it ought to cost more.
It probably is, although it's not that rare 5$s are better than Gold. Maybe if it was a nonterminal Action? That would also make it more likely you have to pass a card with this version (becuase unlike a Treasure you can't play it last).

Of course the alternative is to make it optional and have it give you +2$. Like, I don't know, a lot of other Treasures for 5$. Which doesn't mean it's a bad idea, as obviously there's a reason so many 5$-Treasures are like this.

Ankenaut

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2017, 12:11:05 pm »
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Yes, I like this one better.

I agree that a silver+ version would work at $5. It's not so much that $5 cards shouldn't compete with Gold, just that they shouldn't be strictly better. Since passing might not always be a good thing in every situation, it's not strictly better in this case, but it just seemed too close.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 12:12:18 pm by Ankenaut »
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Violet CLM

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2017, 02:15:56 pm »
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Your team's score is the product, not sum, of your individual scores. This means that the "one player eats all the green, the other player builds an engine to buy it" strategy does not work, and if the boards have very unequal scoring potential, you must focus on both.
Yet another formulation that might be better, might be worse, who knows: each team's score is the lower of the two players' scores. If one player has 1 and their partner has 200, their team's score is 1.
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Asper

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2017, 02:58:59 pm »
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I kinda feel that adding VP is still the best way to represent it. Maybe not the most flashed out, maybe not even the most accurate(?). But it's the easiest one. For example, I don't have to track who of us got more points. It's just, a Province is worth 6 for us, let me pick up one of that. Probably some people would prefer that meta game of optimizing two decks, but honestly, you already got that for many alt VP cards.

Also, I forgot to post this idea from the German forums:

Fisherman, Action-Reaction-Team, 3$
+1 Card
+1 Action
Your partner may discard a card for you to get +1$.
---
At the start of your partner's Buy phase, you may discard this from your hand for them to get +1$.



Similar concept, but slightly different:

Fisherwoman, Action-Duration-Team, 3$
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1$
At the start of your partner's next turn, they get +1$

weety4

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2017, 01:45:41 pm »
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Bad co-op idea. Also, if you are 4 guys you wanna play a 4 player game and not Dominion.
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Asper

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2017, 08:04:08 pm »
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Just occured to me that you can actually use this as a way to give more experienced players a handicap. Let two (or more) players team up against one more experienced player. The less experienced players get the advantage of their attacks not hitting each other (and they can possibly use the above partner cards which aren't available to the solo player). Obviously you have to divide team scores by member count, but it might actually be a fun option for some of the "my family doesn't play against me since I visit fds" people among us.

Ankenaut

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2017, 11:11:20 pm »
+1

Bad co-op idea. Also, if you are 4 guys you wanna play a 4 player game and not Dominion.

I play 4-player Dominion all the time and have tremendous fun doing so. Partner variants could also mitigate some of the things people don't like about 3+ player Dominion. But hey, play what you like.
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weety4

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Re: Partnership Dominion
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2017, 04:59:08 am »
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Bad co-op idea. Also, if you are 4 guys you wanna play a 4 player game and not Dominion.

I play 4-player Dominion all the time and have tremendous fun doing so. Partner variants could also mitigate some of the things people don't like about 3+ player Dominion. But hey, play what you like.
Well, good luck trying to build an engine with an average of 2.5 villages. Also, junkers are uber-powerful in 4P games.
But hey, play what you like.
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