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WilsonWriter

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EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« on: April 01, 2013, 05:56:14 pm »
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The Exodus set includes 24 Kingdom cards. As with my Redemption expansion set, it includes cards with a Fellowship symbol. During Clean-Up, any one Fellowship card that was in play that turn may be discarded and placed facedown under the Fellowship token. It cannot be retrieved until the end of the game. At game's end, the combined cost of all cards in the Fellowship is divided by two, rounded down, and added as Victory points to one's total. You may look at your Fellowship during the game, but other players may not. Any Victory-Fellowship cards also add their usual Victory points to your final score.

ARK OF THE COVENANT
$7 – Treasure/Victory
$1, 4 VP. When you play this, + $1 for
each Fellowship card you have in play.

BRONZE SERPENT
$3 – Action/Reaction
$2. When another player plays an Attack, you may
trash a Curse from your hand or draw a card.

DAVID’S SLING
$5 – Action/Attack
Draw until you have 5 cards in your hand.
Each other player reveals his hand and
discards a revealed Attack card that you choose.

DEAD SEA
$2 – Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck
until you reveal 3 you want to trash. Trash them
and this card, and discard the other revealed cards.

ENDOR WITCH
$4 – Action/Attack
+ 1 Card. Each other player discards a Fellowship card.
If he reveals no Fellowship cards, he gains a Curse.

GOLIATH
$5 – Action/Attack
+ 1 Card, + 1 Action.
Each other player reveals his hand and chooses one:
discard 2 cards, or trash an Action from his hand.

JERICHO MARCH
$6 – Action/Duration
At the start of each subsequent turn, rotate this card
180 degrees. When it reaches its starting position,
gain 2 Golds and put one of them into your hand.

JORDAN RIVER
$2 – Action/Fellowship
Put a card from your hand on the bottom
of your deck, then choose one: + 3 cards or + $2.

JOSHUA & CALEB
$5 – Action/Fellowship
+ 2 Cards, + 2 Actions.
Each other player looks at the top 2 cards of his desk,
then puts one into his hand and discards one.

MANNA
$3 – Action/Duration/Fellowship
Put a Treasure facedown beneath this card and
set both aside. At the start of your next turn, you may
put another Treasure beneath this, or put all gathered
Treasure cards into your hand and discard this card.

MENORAH
$4 – Treasure
$1. While this is in play this, you may discard one or more
cards with combined costs of $7 or more. If you do, + $3.

MIRIAM’S DANCE
$3 – Action/Fellowship
+ 1 Card, + 2 Actions. Gain an additional $1
if you play any other Fellowship cards this turn.

MOSES’ STAFF
$6 – Action/Victory
$1, 2 VP. Choose one: trash any Curse
from your hand, or reveal your hand and
+ 1 card for each Fellowship card revealed.

MT. SINAI
$5 – Action
+ 1 Card, + 1 Action. Trash a card from your hand, gain
a card of the exact same cost, and put it into your hand.

PASSOVER MEAL
$5 – Action/Fellowship
+ 1 Action, + $1, + 1 Buy. Reveal the top card of your deck.
If it’s a Fellowship card, put it into your hand. If not,
you may put it back on top or discard it.

PHARAOH’S ARMY:
$5 – Action/Attack
+2 Actions, $2
Each other player reveals the top card from his deck,
then chooses one: trash it, or discard it and gain a Curse.

PILLAR OF FIRE:
$5 – Action
$3. Look at the top 2 cards of your deck, discard
any number and put the others back in the order you choose.

SCAPEGOAT
$3 – Action
Each player, including you, may trash a Curse or Copper
from his hand. You get + 1 card for each card trashed in this way.

SHOFAR
$2 – Action/Fellowship
+ 1 Action. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal
an Attack. Put it into your hand and discard the other revealed cards.

STAR OF DAVID
$3 – Action/Victory/Fellowship
1 VP. Draw until you have 5 cards in your hand.

STONE TABLETS
$4 – Action
+ 5 Cards, + 1 Action. Discard five cards.

TABERNACLE
$4 – Treasure
$1. When this is in play, choose one:
gain a Fellowship card that costs $4 or less,
or + $1, + 1 buy, and put this card on top of your deck.

TITHE BARN
$4 – Treasure/Victory/Fellowship
$1, 1 VP. Each other player may discard a Copper and gain a Silver.
You may trash a Copper, gain a Silver, and put it into your hand.

WALLS OF ZION
$5 – Action/Fellowship
+ 1 Card, + 2 Actions, + 1 Buy. If you reveal a hand
with no Actions, gain a Silver, and put it into your hand.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 06:49:52 pm by WilsonWriter »
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popsofctown

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion-based expansion
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2013, 06:01:32 pm »
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Typo in the title, I'm pretty sure you meant "Bible"
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WilsonWriter

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion-based expansion
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 06:17:02 pm »
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Nope. I've just traveled in Israel and find the history fascinating. It's a great seedbed for an expansion, and my own interest in the Bible is really irrelevant to the historical possibilities. Heck, we could add some Nephilim and really make it interesting.
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popsofctown

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion-based expansion
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2013, 06:23:07 pm »
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Sure, Torah-based expansion, Israel based expansion, whatever.  You realize you titled the topic as a "Dominion-based expansion"?
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WilsonWriter

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion-based expansion
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 06:25:22 pm »
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The cards, the mechanics, etc, are all based on Dominion. Yes, that's correct. When Don X made an expansion based around the Dark Ages, no one told him to call it a Dark Ages-based expansion. No matter the theme, if the cards and rules and mechanics are based on Dominion, it's only honest to say so. And to be clear, "Exodus" is the book of the Torah/Bible that this theme most centers around. Nothing hidden here.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 06:26:25 pm by WilsonWriter »
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popsofctown

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion-based expansion
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 06:27:12 pm »
+1

It's not based on Dominion.  It's an expansion to Dominion.  "Based on" implies a "is-a" relationship instead of a "has-a" relationship.
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LastFootnote

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion-based expansion
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 06:30:04 pm »
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Nothing hidden here.

He's not accusing you of subterfuge. He's accusing you of bad diction.
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WilsonWriter

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion-based expansion
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 06:30:33 pm »
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Why don't you make some comments related to the cards themselves?
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WilsonWriter

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion-based expansion
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 06:31:57 pm »
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The expansion is based upon the original Dominion rules. There's a reason the original set is called the base game. Are you guys really this bored to carry on such arguments?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 06:35:12 pm by WilsonWriter »
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popsofctown

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion-based expansion
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 06:45:11 pm »
+1

Why don't you make some comments related to the cards themselves?
Earlier, it was because I hadn't the time.  Now, it's because I have had poor past experience the last time I rendered you constructive criticism.
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WilsonWriter

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion-based expansion
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 06:47:19 pm »
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With my last set of cards, I made numerous changes based on constructive criticism. But "constructive" is a relative term, I guess. BTW, I've changed the subject title in response to any confusion I caused.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 06:59:06 pm by WilsonWriter »
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eHalcyon

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 08:33:33 pm »
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Got to be careful about that Fellowship wording.  Are cards under the Fellowship token put back into your deck at the end of the game?  This matters for cards like Gardens.




Ark of the Covenant -- potential balancing issue in that its power fluctuates quite a bit depending on whether there are any Fellowship cards in the kingdom.  Granted, Potion cards are similar in that they are better the more of them you have in the kingdom.

Bronze Serpent -- is that supposed to be +$2?  Your reaction is poorly phrased.  Do you have to reveal the Bronze Serpent to use the reaction?  If so, say so.  But that would be broken, because you can reveal the same reaction multiple times.  You would have to have it be discarded or set aside (so, just like Horse Traders).

David's Sling -- If David's Sling is in the kingdom, people might want to stay away from attacks in general, and that in turn means people will have no reason to get the Sling itself.  So it kind of just eliminates choice in the kingdom.  Thankful, this card is actually pretty weak, so it would be avoided either way.  Why go to the trouble of attempting to Sling away the opponent's Witch when you can just buy Witch yourself?

Dead Sea -- Ridiculously overpowered.  Like, insanely over-the-top powerful.  Trashing any 3 cards in your deck AND the soon-to-be-useless trasher itself?  Without wrecking your current turn?  So, so, so OP.

Endor Witch -- You cannot just assume that people will reveal their hands.  You have to actually say, "or reveal a hand with no Fellowship cards".  So you probably want to rephrase it as, "Each other player discards a Fellowship card from his hand or gains a Curse".

In most cases, this is a $4 Curser.  Many kingdoms won't have Fellowship cards, and even in those that do, players will be unlikely to have one in their hand when Endor Witch is played.  The question then is, how does this compare to Sea Hag and Young Witch?  I think EW is more powerful.

Goliath -- Overpowered.  With Goliath in the kingdom, the only viable strategy will be pure money, because players can freely spam Goliath.  Against that onslaught, players will have to trash actions or discard everything until they have no hand at all.

Now, I get that you are trying for theme here.  Goliath is super strong, but David's Sling counters it.  Flavourful!  Except that a Goliath strategy will still crush a David's Sling strategy, because DS is useless if you are forced to trash or discard it when the Goliath player plays 3-4 of them.

And of course, most kingdoms with Goliath in it would not have David's Sling in it anyway.  And again, even if you had a DS in your deck, that doesn't mean you'll draw it at the right time.

Jericho March -- As worded, a Jericho March will stay in play forever, continually gaining Gold for you every two turns.  This is because it always does something next turn (rotation) so it is never cleaned up.

Jordan River -- Sounds overpowered at first but probably not as good as Courtyard, so it is probably fine! :)

Joshua & Caleb -- +2 Cards, +2 Actions is very powerful, but you also give a big benefit to the other players.  It might be fine.  Hard to judge. 

Manna -- Also hard to judge.  Sounds alright.

Menorah -- Mostly for use with Provinces, I guess?  Seems a bit weak to me.

Miriam's Dance -- I suppose the +$1 is a one-time thing?  This looks OK, except that it must cost at least $4 because it is strictly better than Village.  $4 would be a fine price for it.  It would be an interesting Village/Peddler variant.

Moses' Staff -- You keep omitting the plus sign for virtual coin... and that in turn makes it difficult to tell if this is supposed to be generating VP on play or if it is just worth 2VP.  I assume the latter, because it has the Victory type.  But then the virtual coin is misplaced; it should be "+$1" as part of the action.

Anyway, you should really give this a Fellowship type because it is strictly inferior to Harem in kingdoms with no cursing nor fellowship cards.

Mt. Sinai -- Freely gaining cards directly into your hand is just asking for some broken combo to appear.  The only official cards that gain directly to your hand will only give you treasures (e.g. Explorer) or Curses (e.g. Torturer).  That said, I can't think of a broken combo off the top of my head, so maybe it's alright.

Passover Meal -- Barring some edge cases, this is strictly inferior to Market.  It should cost less than $5.  I would probably start testing it at $3.

Pharoah's Army -- You have to be really, really careful about cantrip attacks.  They really have to be weak and/or non-stackable.  Existing cantrip attacks are Spy, Urchin and Scrying Pool, all of which are pretty weak attacks that don't stack well.  I suppose there is also a cantrip Knight, as well as a +actions Knight.  Pharoah's Army is not a cantrip, but it is non-terminal.  Care still must be taken.  PA gives coin, which is by no means weak.  It is a Festival that replaces the +Buy with an attack.  The attack is actually pretty swingy.  You could reveal a Copper or Estate, helping the opponent.  Or you might reveal Province after Province, loading them with Curses.

Overall, tough to judge.  Take care with this one.

Pillar of Fire -- I am not a fan of +$3 on a $5 action, but that's just me and I don't have a good reason for it.  This is probably fine.

Scapegoat -- Probably OK.  I'd start testing at $2 though; it looks quite weak to me.

Shofar -- And what if there are no attack cards in the kingdom?  This card becomes useless.

Star of David -- Usually weaker than Great Hall.  I guess the Fellowship type helps it.

Stone Tablets -- This should probably cost $5.  Yeah, you end up with a 3 card hand, but it is the best 3 out of 9.  That's huge!  And you still have an action left.  Increasing the reach of Warehouse like that makes it way better.

Tabernacle -- The wording is off.  You mean for it to be, "When you play this".  It is probably OK.  Not sure how powerful the Fellowship gaining is.

Tithe Barn -- The 1VP feels totally tacked on.  Since it is a treasure, it should say, "When you play this".

Walls of Zion -- At first glance, this card is severely lacking in synergy.  It is a village that rewards you for not having actions in hand... by making it less likely for you to pair it with actions in the future!  But you could use it for a powerful money-based strategy.  Spam WoZ to flood your deck with Silver.  On the turn you play it, WoZ is basically Grand Market if you keep your action density low.  Test this card carefully as well.
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One Armed Man

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 08:52:04 pm »
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Endor Witch -- You cannot just assume that people will reveal their hands.  You have to actually say, "or reveal a hand with no Fellowship cards".  So you probably want to rephrase it as, "Each other player discards a Fellowship card from his hand or gains a Curse".

In most cases, this is a $4 Curser.  Many kingdoms won't have Fellowship cards, and even in those that do, players will be unlikely to have one in their hand when Endor Witch is played.  The question then is, how does this compare to Sea Hag and Young Witch?  I think EW is more powerful.
I think that Sea Hag is more powerful, since it hurts an opponent's next or following turn. Terminal +1 card draw is very weak, worse than +$1. The bigger problem is the similarity. Of course Endor Witch is better when curses are out.
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KingZog3

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 09:42:04 pm »
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Shofar -- And what if there are no attack cards in the kingdom?  This card becomes useless.

It just becomes a chancellor with +1action instead of +$2...sooo not TECHNICALLY useless.
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LastFootnote

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion-based expansion
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 10:18:13 pm »
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Why don't you make some comments related to the cards themselves?
Earlier, it was because I hadn't the time.  Now, it's because I have had poor past experience the last time I rendered you constructive criticism.

For me it's not so much that I had poor past experience. It's that it's too many cards, too quickly. You're pumping them out too fast. Quality over quantity, that's my advice.

Also, we suggested many fixes for wording and accountability issues with your other set, but you didn't apply those lessons to these cards.
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WilsonWriter

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2013, 02:11:30 am »
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Once again, I am amazed at the intricacies of this game, and at the amazing advice given here. I've updated many of the cards based on the input provided. Thank you. And yes, I've been creating a lot of cards and still have tons to learn about wording and such. In the meantime, we've been having a blast, about 8 of us, playing our homegrown cards. The Fellowship theme is a winner with them, becoming a viable strategy for bolstering one's point total and thinning one's deck.

Here are the cards I've revised:

BRONZE SERPENT
$3 – Action/Reaction
+ 2 Cards, + 1 Buy. When another player plays an Attack card, you may
discard this and either trash a Curse from your hand or + 1 card.

DEAD SEA
$2 – Action
Choose one: + 1 Action and + $1, or reveal cards
from the top of your deck until you reveal 2 you want to trash.
Trash them, trash this card, and discard the other revealed cards.

GOLIATH
$5 – Action/Attack
+ 1 Card, + 1 Action.
Each other player discards down to 3 cards,
or trashes an Action card from his hand.

JERICHO MARCH
$6 – Action/Duration
At the start of each subsequent turn, rotate this card
180 degrees. When it reaches its starting position, discard it,
gain 2 Golds, and put one of them into your hand.

MIRIAM’S DANCE
$3 – Action/Fellowship
+ 1 Card, + 2 Actions. Discard a card. Gain + $1
for each other Fellowship card you play this turn.

MOSES’ STAFF
$6 – Action/Victory/Fellowship
3 VP. Choose one: trash any Curses
from your hand, or reveal your hand and
draw one card for each Fellowship card revealed.

PASSOVER MEAL
$5 – Action/Fellowship
+ 1 Action, + 1 Buy, + $1. Reveal the top 2 cards of your deck.
If one or more is a Fellowship card, choose one to put into your hand,
and discard the other revealed cards.

PHARAOH’S ARMY:
$5 – Action/Attack
+ 1 Action, $2
Each other player reveals the top card from his deck,
then chooses one: trash it, or discard it and gain a Curse.

SCAPEGOAT
$3 – Action
+ $1. Each player, including you, may trash a Curse or Copper
from his hand. You get + 1 card for each card trashed in this way.

SHOFAR
$2 – Action/Fellowship
+ 1 Action. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal
an Attack or a Fellowship card, whichever is revealed first. Put it into
your hand and discard the other revealed cards.

STONE TABLETS
$4 – Action
+ 5 Cards. Discard five cards.

TABERNACLE
$5 – Treasure
+ $1. When you play this, choose one:
gain a Fellowship card that costs $4 or less,
or + $1 and + 1 buy.

TITHE BARN
$4 – Treasure/Victory/Fellowship
+ $1, + 1 VP. When you play this, each other player may discard
a Copper and gain a Silver. You may trash a Copper, gain a Silver,
and put it into your hand.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 12:42:53 pm by WilsonWriter »
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KingZog3

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2013, 11:06:03 am »
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TABERNACLE
$5 – Treasure
+ $1. When you play this, choose one:
gain a Fellowship card that costs $4 or less,
or + $2 and + 1 buy and put this card on top of your deck.

Terminal Gold with a +buy? Sounds very good to me. Or it's just a workshop that only works on certain cards. How strong are the fellowship cards? If they're very strong then this card is ok, but those other cards are probably too strong. If they aren't strong, then this card has a useless choice on it. Either way there may be a problem.

And you said they are fun, which is probably true. They look like fun. That doesn't stop them from having some problems. Goons can be fun for the person playing it, but I still it's on the edge of being too powerful too often.
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LastFootnote

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2013, 11:09:50 am »
+1

TABERNACLE
$5 – Treasure
+ $1. When you play this, choose one:
gain a Fellowship card that costs $4 or less,
or + $2 and + 1 buy and put this card on top of your deck.

Terminal Gold with a +buy? Sounds very good to me.

What do you mean terminal? It's a Treasure. Forget the Fellowship gaining. It's a Gold WITH an extra buy that you can play every single turn, and it only costs $5.
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WilsonWriter

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2013, 12:22:22 pm »
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Aggh. Yes, Tabernacle is supposed to offer the choice of + $1 and + 1 buy. That was my oversight! Thank you for catching this for me. It was supposed to be a Silver and a buy. Is the "put this on the top of your deck" too strong? It seems to be more of a tossup with a Silver in hand as compared to a Gold. Your thoughts? Or should I drop that "on top" part altogether?

As for the Fellowship cards, we've played with them in a previous set. They are helpful in the way Island is helpful. Cards that help early on but get in the way later, such as Tithe Barn, are great for putting away in the Fellowship. And cards such as Ark of the Covenant add up quickly, since they have 4 VP, and the additional VP points based on half of the card's $7 cost. This strategy can be powerful, but usually only when emptying three piles before another player can get rolling on buying Provinces or Colonies. Usually, it holds up as a supplemental strategy that cannot win the game alone.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 12:29:02 pm by WilsonWriter »
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LastFootnote

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2013, 12:25:02 pm »
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Aggh. Yes, Tabernacle is supposed to offer the choice of + $1 and + 1 buy. That was my oversight! Thank you for catching this for me. It was supposed to be a Silver and a buy.

That's still crazy, though. Buy four of them and you have a Province every turn. Buy five and you have either a Province and an Estate or two Duchies every turn.
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WilsonWriter

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2013, 12:30:46 pm »
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Isn't that the same thing as buying 4 Silvers and hoping to win out that way? Trader is a nice card, but it's never won a game for me. I'm asking this seriously, and yes, I'll remove the "put on top of your deck" part. Too powerful, agreed.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 12:43:46 pm by WilsonWriter »
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LastFootnote

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2013, 12:44:09 pm »
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Isn't that the same thing as buying 4 Silvers and hoping to win out that way? Trader is a nice card, but it's never won a game for me. I'm asking this seriously.

What? Do you shuffle your entire deck after every turn? If so, you're playing incorrectly.
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eHalcyon

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2013, 12:54:27 pm »
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Goliath -- the problem is that Goliath is very weak for a $5 now.  It would be rare when a player would trash an action (maybe with Ruins, or an early game trasher that has run its course) so players will usually pick the discard.  And after the first discard, they can freely pick discard for no penalty at all.  So this is just a slightly upgraded Urchin.

Don't get me wrong, $5 might still be the right price for it.  But it probably doesn't fit the name "Goliath" now.  But you also have to be careful about making it stronger if you keep it as a cantrip...

I should have mentioned it before, but there is an accountability issue.  What happens if a player chooses to trash an action and says that there is no action in their hand?  You either have to add a "reveal your hand" clause or eliminate that option.

For the theme, I might try something like this:

Goliath
$5 - Action
+1 Action
Each other player with at least 3 cards in hand may trash an Action card from his hand.  If he does not, he discards two cards.
--
In games using this, add David's Sling as an extra Kingdom card pile to the Supply.


Now Goliath is legitimately powerful, but at the worst, a player can always keep 1 card in their hand.  Games with Goliath will always have its counter.

It's probably still too strong though.

Passover Meal -- you improved this by having it reveal 2 cards instead of 1.  However, this is still worse than Market most of the time.  There are two cases when PM is better:
- the first card is junk that you get to discard and the second card is a Fellowship that you want to draw
- you reveal 2 Fellowship cards and get to choose which to keep

I suppose that's enough to keep it at $5 though.


Pharoah's Army -- Dropping one action from PA doesn't really address the issues I mentioned.  It is still non-terminal and stacking.  Now, it might be fine as is.  I just said that you need to take care with non-terminal attacks.


Shofar -- This makes it better if there are other Fellowship cards in the kingdom.  But if there are not, and there are no attacks, all Shofar will do is find other Shofars.  You could end up just playing a bunch of them for no useful effect other than cycling your deck.


Tabernacle -- not sure why you buffed it... and I just realized that the original Tabernacle was a Silver+ at $4, which would actually not have been good.  But yeah, the new one is strictly superior to Gold at a cheaper price!

(By the way, convention is that we say "+$X" for virtual coin, i.e. on actions.  For treasures, we usually write it out as, "Worth $X".  This is based on how official actions and treasures are written.)

Tithe Barn -- The VP part is more confusing now.  Is this a Treasure-Victory type card like Harem?  If so, it should not say "+1 VP".  Using the plus sign there would mean that this is a VP token gainer like Monument and NOT a Victory type card.  And if this is what you mean, then it is too powerful as a non-terminal way of just accumulating a bunch of VP without progressing closer to game end.  If you trashed down to just a deck of 5 TBs, you could gain 5VP every turn forever.





PPE: So, downgrading it to Silver instead of Gold, LF is still correct.  Once you have four, you just keep topdecking them and buying Provinces every turn.  Tabernacle is significantly stronger than just Silver because it keeps topdecking itself.  Once you have four, it takes only one shuffle to get them all into one hand, and then you have a Province every turn because you can just put them all back on top for your next hand.  Various attacks can counter it, but not every kingdom will have such an attack.  This version of Tabernacle is like Stash on steroids.
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WilsonWriter

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2013, 01:14:44 pm »
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Isn't that the same thing as buying 4 Silvers and hoping to win out that way? Trader is a nice card, but it's never won a game for me. I'm asking this seriously.

What? Do you shuffle your entire deck after every turn? If so, you're playing incorrectly.

That's sort of my point. Having a bunch of Silvers doesn't usually win the game for you, whether you keep shuffling or topdecking them. But I took your advice and removed the topdecking option. You're absolutely correct about it being too strong for its cost that way.
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eHalcyon

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Re: EXODUS: a Dominion expansion set
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2013, 02:41:15 pm »
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Isn't that the same thing as buying 4 Silvers and hoping to win out that way? Trader is a nice card, but it's never won a game for me. I'm asking this seriously.

What? Do you shuffle your entire deck after every turn? If so, you're playing incorrectly.

That's sort of my point. Having a bunch of Silvers doesn't usually win the game for you, whether you keep shuffling or topdecking them. But I took your advice and removed the topdecking option. You're absolutely correct about it being too strong for its cost that way.

It is much stronger if you can keep topdecking them.  With the official cards, there is no way to keep topdecking silvers to buy Provinces, so I'm not sure how you could have ever tried that.  But if you could, it would be dominant much of the time.

Consider that a decent strategy is Stash + Chancellor/Scavenger.  This involves repeatedly topdecking Stash by triggering the reshuffle.  But if you had a self-top-decking Silver, that would be way easier to set up.

LF's comment was just that, the only way such a card would not be dominant in most kingdoms would be if you kept shuffling your whole deck to render the topdecking pointless.
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