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Author Topic: Dominion Battle Royale  (Read 15906 times)

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heron

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2013, 09:06:40 pm »
+1

Same with Masquerade. Without King's Court, it's so unlikely that you would ever not be passing a card when you play it anyway, and even if you do, so what? It's only taking 1 card from the players hand, not 3 like KC-Masq.
Don't forget about minion/throne room/throne room/outpost/masquerade!
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popsofctown

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2013, 09:40:54 pm »
0

Yep.  It would be a contest to see who could assemble the outpost variants of the combo (The discard to 3 variants might work more easily.).

And even if you ban outpost, which you shouldn't anyway, softlocks can still be pretty powerful.  I once won a game from a 3 province disadvantage using KC/Minion/Masquerade.  ThroneRoom-Margrave-Masquerade can also trash all but one card from hand.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 09:47:58 pm by popsofctown »
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popsofctown

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2013, 07:10:35 pm »
0

So, a thought I had, after losing a brutal game against H_D in which he channeled Celestial Chameleon..

It seems like H_D's playgroup has been having to ban the most powerful card left, bit by bit.
Maybe they don't mind the slow process.  But if they do mind it, an idea for how to accelerate things could be to ban every card that doesn't improve BMU on its own.  Because that tends to be a good indicator of whether the card is interaction-based.  And the more interaction based, the more it breaks with lots of available interactions.

That might overban, but, just a thought.
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Kirian

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2013, 12:15:11 am »
+15

I think the best idea here would be to ban all but ten cards, but ban them randomly, such that every game is somewhat different.
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Archetype

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2013, 12:47:24 am »
+2

I think the best idea here would be to ban all but ten cards, but ban them randomly, such that every game is somewhat different.
Instead of Dominion Battle Royal, we could simply shorten it to 'Dominion'.

But then again it sounds a lot like Puzzle Strike.
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popsofctown

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2013, 04:01:50 pm »
+2

I think the best idea here would be to ban all but ten cards, but ban them randomly, such that every game is somewhat different.

Why ten and not 50? 
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Kirian

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2013, 04:03:55 pm »
0

I think the best idea here would be to ban all but ten cards, but ban them randomly, such that every game is somewhat different.

Why ten and not 50? 

Joke ------------->
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Unless that was intentional, in which case

Your joke ----------->
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popsofctown

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2013, 04:27:15 pm »
0

I knew it was a joke, but I wasn't sure how derisive towards the format/my suggestion it was.
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Kirian

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2013, 04:35:52 pm »
0

I knew it was a joke, but I wasn't sure how derisive towards the format/my suggestion it was.

Nah, not intended as derisive, just silly.  It just feels like the more cards get added to the "banned" list, the closer you get to just having 10 cards.
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popsofctown

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2013, 04:39:20 pm »
+1

there's going to be a state of balance long before you reach 10 cards though.
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Hertz_Doughnut

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2013, 12:51:31 pm »
+5

Battle Royale evolves.  The combo that is currently dominating the format is not one that I have found in any forum post or strategy article on this site.  And this combo can come up in regular Dominion... for example, this kingdom:

Hamlet, Menagerie, Watchtower, Tactician, Outpost, Upgrade, Squire, Procession, Fortress, Rats (+ Colonies, + Shelters)

I can win that kingdom regularly in 7 turns on goko.  The combo involved is much easier to set up than the Masquerade pin.


And here is why I like Battle Royale:

How long would it take to discover this combo playing regular Dominion?

I'm guessing decades.  It takes millions of games to get the component parts together in the same kingdom, and then one of you have to be a savant who can recognize in the time it takes to make the first buy exactly how they interact together, and what's the best path to getting them your deck.  And once that game's done, you can forget the combo even existed because you won't see the situation come up again for millions of kingdoms.

Battle Royale is about discovering the best synergies in the entire set of Dominion cards.  My brother came across this combo because he spent an evening on his own wondering how he could exploit Upgrade to the max... and discovered that Upgrade/Fortress creates a chain to gain every single Upgrade for just 1 action (with your deck drawn).  Similarly, Rats, on its own, can create a chain to gain all the Rats.  Plow through one other pile and the game is over.  (Moral of the story, watch out for cantrips that can gain themselves...)

I spent one night learning all the different ways to exploit Squire.  (Best so far: open with Watchtower, buy a Squire with Watchtower in hand, top-deck a Margrave, who subsequently gives you cards and buys to top-deck 2 attacks on future turns... where I prefer the non-terminals Minion and Familiar... Familiar can sometimes be Graverobbered into a turn-6 top-decked Possession.))  I've also played a lot of Governor/Forge and Governor/Possession (both fun)... in addition to the standard killer decks like Native Village/Bridge (a dud) and Ironworks/Silk Road (too slow).

Right now Upgrade/Fortress is unbeatable.  And when both players know that Upgrade/Fortress is unbeatable, the mirror games actually are very interesting... if you don't get 8 Upgrades, you can't pile out the Duchies in one fell swoop... and it's hard to justify any Rats in your deck if you can't auto-deplete 3 piles in one turn.


But the discussion isn't always about banning... we've actually considered un-banning King's Court or Mountebank to see if that allows for something else to compete with that combo.



Right now I know of only 4 people in the entire world that have played Battle Royale.  We've played no more than 30 games in total.  And yet, I think we've broken ground in Dominion strategy by identifying an unyet discussed 7-turn game-winning combo.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2013, 01:37:19 pm »
0

It was already known that Rats could pile out Rats; that was actually identified when Rats was previewed, before DA was released.  I hadn't seen Upgrade-Fortress discussed though.  So presumably that would be:

Empty deck/discard
2 Upgrades and Fortress in hand

Play Upgrade, trashing Fortress to gain Upgrade (goes into discard).
Play second Upgrade, drawing Upgrade (only thing in deck/discard) and trashing Fortress to gain a new Upgrade.
Repeat

I don't see how this is game won in 7 turns -- can you explain?  Empty Upgrades and Rats, then Duchies?  Does that actually get done in 7 turns?  Are you using Tactician in there to facilitate drawing the whole deck?


Edit: ahh, actually, it has been pointed out:

Upgrading fortresses probably deserves a mention for the same trick as rats since it is more likely to be useful.

Well, I should probably mention Rats itself.  Normally, Rats games will not end up emptying the pile, as you'll most likely trash them away for better stuff before that happens.  But in a Rats/Fortress game, it's perfectly feasible to auto-pile the Rats.  Get your entire deck into your hand, including at least two Rats and a Fortress, and then just play Rats, having it eat the Fortress each time, until the pile is empty.  Then move on to the other two piles.  This also works with Upgrade (which is perhaps a more useful card to have than Rats).
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 01:40:49 pm by eHalcyon »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dominion Battle Royale
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2013, 01:57:21 pm »
0

Thanks for digging up those mentions... quite interesting that people had stumbled upon the combo but didn't pursue it to its powerful conclusion...

Just play the kingdom I stated above on Goko against bots.  You're sharp, you'll figure out how to get the 7-turn win.

I don't have everything on Goko. :P

Maybe I'll try it out later in Androminion.
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