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Author Topic: Native village: can you look at the top card?  (Read 14098 times)

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Ozle

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2013, 05:02:06 pm »
0

Seriously guys? It was such a simple question.

Yeah, my subtle way of suggesting this was a bit too subtle it seems! Haha
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Morgrim7

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2013, 05:56:30 pm »
+2

I came here for an argument.
No you didn't.
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Davio

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2013, 01:46:41 pm »
+5

Seriously guys? It was such a simple question.
There are no simple questions, only edge cases.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2013, 11:59:19 am »
+5

Yes, it was a very simple question. The answer is no. But here is a much more useful answer, to which all the other answers were alluding:

During a turn of Dominion, you are not allowed to do anything other than play Action cards during your Action Phase (spending an Action to do each, one at a time, precisely and completely following each card's instructions in order before doing anything else), play Treasures during your Buy phase (one at a time, precisely and completely following each card's instructions in order before doing anything else, and only before Buying cards), Buy cards during your Buy phase (spending a Buy and the appropriate number of Coins on each, one at a time, precisely and completely following any on-Buy instructions, and then precisely and completely following any on-Gain instructions), clean up during your Clean-Up Phase and then end your turn, advance to the next phase, or count your deck (only looking at the backs of the cards), unless a card specifically says you can do it. (Obvious non-gamestate-related things like talking and sipping on a beverage of your choice (being careful not to spill any and risk damaging the cards) are allowed, and non-obvious things like keeping track of the score with pen and paper are beyond the scope of this answer but should probably only be done with the permission of all other players.)

This answers the majority of rules questions. Teach a man to fish and all that.
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DStu

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2013, 12:02:54 pm »
0

This answers the majority of rules questions. Teach a man to fish and all that.
You forgot reactions.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2013, 12:15:36 pm »
0

This answers the majority of rules questions. Teach a man to fish and all that.
You forgot reactions.

I think that's covered by "unless a card specifically says you can do it."
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2013, 12:39:47 pm »
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Yes, I actually had a part about Reactions, but I deleted it when I realised that it was covered.
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Davio

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2013, 03:32:53 pm »
0

How is there a next phase after cleanup and ending your turn? Is this the scary possession phase?
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shMerker

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2013, 03:37:16 pm »
0

It's a list of all the things you can do. Some of them can only be done during certain phases. Others can be done whenever. "Advance to the next phase" is the action that moves you between phases Action, Buy, and Cleanup. A more explicit wording would be "advance to the buy phase during the action phase, advance to the clean-up phase during the buy phase, or count..."
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 03:39:17 pm by shMerker »
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Davio

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2013, 03:50:19 pm »
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If you count your deck you can't advance to the next phase? I mean, this topic already demonstrated the meaning of 'or'.
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DStu

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2013, 03:57:50 pm »
0

If you count your deck you can't advance to the next phase? I mean, this topic already demonstrated the meaning of 'or'.
No, it's just forbidden to do this at the same time...
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2013, 09:40:56 pm »
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If you count your deck you can't advance to the next phase? I mean, this topic already demonstrated the meaning of 'or'.

Read the whole sentence. You are not allowed to do anything other than A, B, C or D.
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Brando Commando

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2013, 10:01:16 am »
0

Yes, it was a very simple question. The answer is no. But here is a much more useful answer, to which all the other answers were alluding:

During a turn of Dominion, you are not allowed to do anything other than play Action cards during your Action Phase (spending an Action to do each, one at a time, precisely and completely following each card's instructions in order before doing anything else), play Treasures during your Buy phase (one at a time, precisely and completely following each card's instructions in order before doing anything else, and only before Buying cards), Buy cards during your Buy phase (spending a Buy and the appropriate number of Coins on each, one at a time, precisely and completely following any on-Buy instructions, and then precisely and completely following any on-Gain instructions), clean up during your Clean-Up Phase and then end your turn, advance to the next phase, or count your deck (only looking at the backs of the cards), unless a card specifically says you can do it. (Obvious non-gamestate-related things like talking and sipping on a beverage of your choice (being careful not to spill any and risk damaging the cards) are allowed, and non-obvious things like keeping track of the score with pen and paper are beyond the scope of this answer but should probably only be done with the permission of all other players.)

This answers the majority of rules questions. Teach a man to fish and all that.

I like this for its elegance. I will say however, that no matter how many times more experienced players say this...some relatively new person or somebody who just doesn't think this systematically about things will stumble in and ask a question that is more or less covered by a literal reading of the rules.

And that's when we punk 'em. And we just have to accept that and answer as best we can.
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Asper

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2013, 03:21:40 pm »
0

Yes, it was a very simple question. The answer is no. But here is a much more useful answer, to which all the other answers were alluding:

During a turn of Dominion, you are not allowed to do anything other than [...] or count your deck (only looking at the backs of the cards), unless a card specifically says you can do it.

I never knew you were allowed to count your deck without a card telling you to do that. Can anyone give out a link to the rules where it says so? Maybe it was just missed out in the german version, but i really would like to know.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2013, 03:24:38 pm »
+1

Yes, it was a very simple question. The answer is no. But here is a much more useful answer, to which all the other answers were alluding:

During a turn of Dominion, you are not allowed to do anything other than [...] or count your deck (only looking at the backs of the cards), unless a card specifically says you can do it.

I never knew you were allowed to count your deck without a card telling you to do that. Can anyone give out a link to the rules where it says so? Maybe it was just missed out in the german version, but i really would like to know.

"A player is allowed to count how many cards are left in his Deck, but not in his Discard pile. A player may not look through his Deck or his Discard pile. A player may look through the Trash pile, and players may count the number of cards left in any pile in the Supply."

Edit:  Hmm.  Are you allowed to count how many, say, Spoils are left?  Or how many cards are left in the Black Market deck?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 03:26:07 pm by SirPeebles »
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AHoppy

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2013, 03:28:34 pm »
+1

Yes, it was a very simple question. The answer is no. But here is a much more useful answer, to which all the other answers were alluding:

During a turn of Dominion, you are not allowed to do anything other than [...] or count your deck (only looking at the backs of the cards), unless a card specifically says you can do it.

I never knew you were allowed to count your deck without a card telling you to do that. Can anyone give out a link to the rules where it says so? Maybe it was just missed out in the german version, but i really would like to know.
Under additional rules:

Quote from: Dominion Rules
A player is allowed to count how many cards are left in his Deck,
but not in his Discard pile. A player may not look through his Deck
or his Discard pile. A player may look through the Trash pile, and
players may count the number of cards left in any pile in the
Supply.

http://www.riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_278_gameRules.pdf

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Jeebus

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2013, 05:53:33 pm »
0

Edit:  Hmm.  Are you allowed to count how many, say, Spoils are left?  Or how many cards are left in the Black Market deck?

Ooh, a thing not covered by the rules, counting non-supply piles. It's missing from the rules FAQ too (in my sig). The answer is of course obvious, but still... Well, I can't be bothered to add it, I think. Even a FAQ like that can get too pedantic... right?

yudantaiteki

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2013, 08:57:49 am »
0

Has the author of Dominion ever settled the rule in this forum or elsewhere?


Although I doubt Donald X has ruled on this specific issue, one thing he has said repeatedly is that he considers Dominion to have a general, implied rule common to most games -- if you aren't told you can do something, you can't do it.  It's not necessary for cards to explicitly tell you not to do things.

You are correct that neither the rules nor clarifications (I guess?) say you cannot look at the next card before deciding.  However, this doesn't mean there's an ambiguity or confusion.  What's more important is that the card doesn't say you *can* look at the next card, therefore you can't.

I believe there's a rule somewhere in the book that tells you you are not allowed to look at cards in your current deck.  Unless this rule is explicitly over-ruled by a card, you have to follow that.
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Morgrim7

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2013, 09:29:27 am »
+1

You can't look at the top card. End of discussion.
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Dominion Notation: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7265.msg206246#msg206246

Asper

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2013, 04:22:17 pm »
+2

End of discussion.

> End of discussion.
> Dominion Strategy Forum.
Pick one.

Edit: That was supposed to be a joke...
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 04:45:06 pm by Asper »
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theory

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2013, 04:41:39 pm »
+2

I can pick both!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Native village: can you look at the top card?
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2013, 05:00:23 pm »
+6

I can pick both!

You so need to lock the thread right after saying that!
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