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Author Topic: The Decline of My Dominion Skills  (Read 10018 times)

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matiez

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The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« on: September 29, 2011, 10:37:52 am »
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So far, I've played well over 200 games between 2-player Iso and 2-6 player AFK. When first learning the cards, I was a horrible player. After discovering Iso and this site, however, my game increased tremendously. Now, however, it seems that I am making very similar mistakes to those I made when first learning to play.

I seem to be stuck in a rut. Usually, I don't pick up on the best strategy on the board until about turn 10. It's at this time I realize that I'm going to lose the game since my strategy was invalid due to the rest of the kingdom (i.e. Gardens strategy with no +Buy and only 1 non-terminal action).

Here's my council room profile for everyone to laugh at some of my mistakes, but moreso maybe be able to provide me with an insight to why my game is deteriorating.
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tko

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2011, 11:41:17 am »
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I've been on a downward spiral myself for most of September, though my games went well yesterday.  Sometimes reading a lot of strategy about a game will seed your mind with something useful, but then the application doesn't work right.  For example, I read that too many Silvers will slow you down.  So the next time I get 11 coin and 2 buys and buy a Province, I don't buy an additional Silver... now my deck is too green to finish.  Silver is sometimes what you need in Province games.  Then I read about how to use Wishing Well correctly, and I get some success doing that, but now my game strategy has changed.  I used to win games where I only bought 2 or 3 action cards, and now I'm dipping into too many action cards.  Then I read about how fast BM+Envoy is, and I play it against someone who beats me with an action-based engine... but again, application was wrong as I didn't buy a Duchy when I should have.  So in all these examples, I made mistakes trying to apply strategy tips I've gotten from this site, but the upside is those mistakes were all chances to learn.  The takeaway from this is your game skill may dip a couple times as you learn new strategies, but that's probably typical for the organic process of learning a game.

Are there any specific losses you have that you're confused about?  Like how did I buy 8 Vineyards and still lose?!?
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ChaosRed

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 12:01:41 pm »
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I'm struggling myself lately. I am trying to go beyond BM+something+something. The BM technique has great success on boardgamearena, and on low-level players on Iso, but at level 11 I find myself up against levels 18-22 quite a bit and they tend to kick my ass, people with hundreds of games played too.

That progression is TOUGH. I've managed a few draws breaking from that box, but other times I get my ass kicked. The key problem is assessing the board, I see a better tactic at around turn 6 or so and I realize its way too late.

I've tried a Masquerade opening twice now and got my ass kicked, its too damn slow to work?

I tried to switch to Gardens in one game at about turn 6...don't ever do that...if you're going to 3-pile Gardens, do it right at the start and possibly don't do it all when several cheap +Action cards are on the board, but the +Buy is a little harder to get.

One thing I notice is some players develop FANTASTIC engines, but then don't turn over to VP soon enough, they just keep enhancing the engine. So when I do win these days, its more because the opponent screws up in the mid-game. Really, I see these great engines, but they don't realize that catching up from -12 in VP isn't as easy as it looks, no matter how good the engine is. It can be done, but I think its harder than some players realize and they keep tweaking their engine.

Things I still avoid, because they break my brain:

1. Games with Colony and Platinum. I'm still working the math of Gold and Provinces.
2. Potion cards. Sloooooooooooooooow. I know they are powerful and some are too good to ignore, but I hate getting the potion balance right.

Exposing these two points, probably demonstrates how much of a novice I still am.

Judging the board is hard on Isotropic. It's easy on boardgamearena because its just base+intrigue. In fact, I rarely make misstep with those two sets now, if I am beaten with those two sets, its because the other player is playing the board well and it just comes down to draws and the games tend to be very tight.

On Isotropic, I can sometimes get my ass KICKED. Destroyed. I win too, but the transition beyond Big Money isn't easy.
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Buggz

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 12:42:36 pm »
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1. Games with Colony and Platinum. I'm still working the math of Gold and Provinces.
2. Potion cards. Sloooooooooooooooow. I know they are powerful and some are too good to ignore, but I hate getting the potion balance right.
Potions: See if there are trash-for-benefit cards out, especially apprentice, salvager, remodel or mine, because those can turn your potions into gold, coin, draws or other really useful cards after you've gotten your golems, familiars, whatever. Try limiting yourself to get back into increasing general deck value early rather than late (it's hard). Drawers help, you need to shuffle faster than your opponent.

Colony games: the best way to work out that math is... to play more colony games. Nothing teaches that like being murdered by a better deck composition or stumbling over a great combo by chance. Don't read too much about it, get the feel for it.
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ChaosRed

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 01:26:41 pm »
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Thanks Buggz, deck control is still a struggle for me. More play is the key I'm sure, there's just so many damn cards.
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biopower

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 02:48:35 pm »
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I've tried a Masquerade opening twice now and got my ass kicked, its too damn slow to work?

It's actually one of the fastest openings; BM + Masquerade lets you trash, cycle, and mildly attack your opponents, which lets you get to provinces fairly quickly.
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ChaosRed

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 02:51:16 pm »
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Yeah, so says everything I've read, it just seems to trash one copper, and then I get copper inserted back when the Masquerade is played against me.

I think its great if your opponent isn't playing the same game, but if he is, a lot of what you trash gets reinserted back into your hand. I am sure its effective, but I reach for it when I see it and haven't been able to win with it.

Ambassador on the other hand, is a real winner for me.
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ackack

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2011, 03:04:07 pm »
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I think its great if your opponent isn't playing the same game, but if he is, a lot of what you trash gets reinserted back into your hand. I am sure its effective, but I reach for it when I see it and haven't been able to win with it.

You have 8 games with Masquerade that I see on CouncilRoom. You have 4 games where Masq is one of your opening buys: Masq/Bridge, Masq/Silver, Masq/Masq, Masq/Masq. The Masq/Bridge open was fine, as that board had Hamlets which you can snap up quickly with Bridge and help play both of them with some regularity. Masq/Masq is, in my opinion, a dubious opening which you should avoid. The Masq/Silver board also featured Chapel, and you used your first 5 on Council Room, which is going to be tough both with Masq and Chapel.

Just try playing a game where you buy one Masquerade and then only money and VP cards. You will probably be surprised how good that is.
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Epoch

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2011, 03:06:41 pm »
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Yeah, so says everything I've read, it just seems to trash one copper, and then I get copper inserted back when the Masquerade is played against me.

...You are trashing Estates, not Coppers, first, right?

And when you and your opponent both play Masquerades, you realize that you go down 1 card net each, right?

Your turn:  Play Masq, pass Estate to opponent, opponent (probably) passes Estate to you, you trash Estate.
Net:  -1 Estate for you, even money for him.
His turn:  He plays Masq, passes Estate to you, you (probably) pass Estate to him, he trashes Estate.
Net:  -1 Estate for him, even for you

Total:  Both of you reduce your decks by the size of 1 Estate.

Masquerade doesn't really...  work.  I mean, it doesn't for the most part do interesting things where you actually pass around cards.  It's a trasher with +2 Cards, in 90% of its uses.  Only in the late game does it have the potential to do something interesting, and then you probably don't play it because you're worried about what you would have to pass.

But, as "+2 Cards, trash one card from your hand," it's a stellar, stellar opening.
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The Adventurer

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2011, 03:24:03 pm »
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When I read the title of this topic, it was screaming my name out.

I played and boosted up to level 24 on Isotropic within 4-5 weeks of play. I was winning constantly, even crushing my opponents, no matter what level they were (30's or 10's). Reading all the articles on here helped greatly into shaping my strategies and it got me to where I was.
Now, it's a different ball game. I've regressed a couple levels (22 now), and can't seem to jump back up! People under level 10 beat me constantly and that's without mention of the +30 ones who just seem to destroy me every time.

Was it beginners' luck? I still know the basics and I guess it's about deck balance at this point... so I'm anxious to see what people have to say about this "stall" and what to do to bring me to the "next" level.
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rod-

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2011, 03:52:55 pm »
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If you keep playing and keep enjoying the game, you shouldn't be too worried about what happens to your ranking ; it often goes on extended jaunts into territory it doesn't really belong in.  Beating 30s happens frequently, even when you're not playing particularly well...So does losing to 0s.

I charted my leaderboard stats for the first 3-4 months i played - the longest dip i had lasted 9 days*.  You're on this forum, so you're doing all you need to improve.  Think, read, play.  Repeat. 

*unless you count my current state of "33-35 for the last 6 weeks, when i had been 36-37 for 10 consecutive days"
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Mean Mr Mustard

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2011, 03:56:19 pm »
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I think that most of us who play regularly have experienced this wax and wane effect.  I believe some of it is caused by trying to repeat earlier successes in environments that really don't support or replicate the same strategies.  Or maybe it is that we lose sight of the game clock while we are building better and more elaborate engines.  I don't really know.  I get frustrated when my roll is disturbed by luckier opponents that obviously mirror me, or by a string of horrible games ruled by terrible shuffle luck.

Isotropic's setup can be annoying when it gets to the point where a player must win a clear majority of games just to tread water, and one bad day can set you back.  This is complicated by the fact that by winning the player has a higher chance to play in seat two.  But I honestly do not fret about it.  One of these days I will go 25-5 and get that level back. 
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rinkworks

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2011, 04:09:14 pm »
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I don't play on Isotropic, but one thing I've noticed playing rated chess is that one kind of thinks of the high points in his rating swings as the "right" rating, and anything below that as unlucky and/or slipping in skill.  Just human nature, I guess.  We hit a goal once, and our minds classify ourselves as having achieved that goal.  But the reality is that the upswings are as much a consequence of the margin of error in the system as the low swings.  If you can stick at 1700 for a while in chess, or level 40 in Isotropic, or whatever, and then you slip down to 1500 or level 30 and have trouble climbing back up, well, maybe 1700/40 wasn't really where your true skill level is in the first place.  Or you *will* climb back up to 1700/40 and taper off, which may STILL mean your true skill level is somewhere around 1600/35.
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ChaosRed

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 04:49:19 pm »
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Dominion is streaky, really, if you have two intelligent people playing who understand the board, it's a 40-40 split, with the "skill" argument at around 20%...I have beaten players with a lot more games under their belt, probably much better players than me, but I beat them because I had a decent strategy, I got decent draws and sneaked a victory. So, Dominion can get streaky, I wouldn't sweat a 10-game slide, I'd sweat a 50 game slide though.

As for Masquerade, I understand both opponents are trashing, but Masquerade games are slow and while I am sure its a great opening, I have trouble winning when I open that way. Meh, Masquerade, I'll keep tinkering with it, but at this stage, I am not utterly convinced its the strongest opening. It just seems like a slow trashing mechanism with slight card gain (people hate when I use that word in that context, card positive I guess).

I just won a Minion game on boardgamearena. First time pulling that trick off. I screwed it up a few times and messed up my deck with pawns. I think the key to Minion chains keeping the deck balanced. I thought the Pawns would help, and at first they did, but as the deck got wider with land acquisition they were a pain in the ass. Live and learn I guess.

But for me, "decline" often means you are experimenting, which is a good thing. Simulators only reveal so much (and they can't make the subtle adjustments beyond an algorithm that sometimes you need to do in REACTION to what your opponent does). And I don't think solitaire is a full practice either. It gets you an idea on tempo/balance of a deck, but to compete you have to face an adversary who is reacting to your construction. Which means, the only way to learn is to get in there and try stuff and when you do that, you lose.

Iso is brutal because, I am convinced some players create new accounts to get a "clean slate". I've played level 0 players, who clearly not only know the game, they know it well, play fast and are razor sharp. This tells me they are likely someone who wants to rebuild their rating from scratch, possibly even challenging much higher level players to do it. On top of that, its EVERY expansion, which I can't play test at home.

So its a fiery, competitive arena and as you broaden your skills, your going to go out of your comfort zone and lose. That's currently where I'm at. Is Steward a good buy? Is Lookout? Is two Ambassadors better than one? Do you reach for the Province on an early draw of 8, or reach for another Gold? When is Harem a good buy? All those decisions are made for you in BM+ and BM++, but it becomes a vaguer, muddier world once you abandon BM in order to grow.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 04:52:50 pm by ChaosRed »
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Epoch

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2011, 04:55:22 pm »
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As for Masquerade, I understand both opponents are trashing, but Masquerade games are slow and while I am sure its a great opening, I have trouble winning when I open that way.

Masquerade is not slow.  It's fast.  I don't understand how you're getting the idea that it's slow.  It gives you trashing without sacrificing buying power!  Your opponent playing it doesn't really hurt you!  Where would the slowness come from?

Usually, trashers create a slow early game followed by a faster mid-game, because they sacrifice buying power early in order to create a better deck.  Masquerade doesn't produce as fast a mid-game as a good trasher, because it's only a single-card trasher, but on the other hand, you play a 5 card hand with it, so it doesn't slow your early game at all!  And it also cycles your deck faster.
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krawhitham

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2011, 05:00:20 pm »
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I think boredom plays a part. I'm not talking boredom with the game, but with certain cards/combo's.

"Oh, do I really want to play Ambassador tennis? No I'll try something else". You play sub-optimal just to try it out.

Like others have said, fun is the main thing. Don't get hung up on win rates.
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rinkworks

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2011, 05:04:05 pm »
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I just won a Minion game on boardgamearena. First time pulling that trick off. I screwed it up a few times and messed up my deck with pawns. I think the key to Minion chains keeping the deck balanced. I thought the Pawns would help, and at first they did, but as the deck got wider with land acquisition they were a pain in the ass. Live and learn I guess.

Congrats on winning the Minion game!

I'm curious why you thought the Pawns slowed you down, though.  Worse case, you play Pawn for a card and an action, and that's as good as if the Pawn hadn't been in the deck at all.  They can't really get in the way and, in a Minion deck, are certainly superior to Silver, which would space your Minions out before the green cards get to them.  Green cards really do bog down a Minion deck suddenly, though.  Minions are a little more resilient to a loose deck than many engines, but once they get spaced out just enough, their productivity evaporates all at once.

Pawns are pretty good for Minion decks, though, because in the best case, you play them for an action and either a buy or a coin, allowing you to reap a small benefit without breaking the action chain, and in the worst case you play them as a cantrip, and it's as if those Pawns were never even there.
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ChaosRed

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2011, 05:12:46 pm »
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By the end of the game, I'd draw 3 pawns...and two other non-minions. I think I had 7 minions and 7 pawns and as the deck grew (it all had all my copper and one silver)...it would often get stuck, not drawing a minion (sometimes just drawing a Pawn). I am wondering if I should have held out for Lab. Pawn was bought because it was cheap and it added a 1$ when Minion was in hand, and drew a card when it was not and didn't terminate. Anyway, I bought too many Pawns. I wanted the +buy too obviously, I think the card is very complementary, I just didn't quite get the ratio right.

Last few turns, I was getting to 4$...and it was frightening, that's like "doom" during the end-game. I recovered...I often knew when a big chain was coming, simply by counting what had come before.

I need to solitaire some games and learn how to balance Minion, although I won the game, I know I stumbled a few times. For example, at one point I thought all 6 Minions had been chained, I did this two turns before realizing, I had a 7th in my deck. So I wasn't even counting right, which I think is critical to playing Minion right. Other times, I was clicking "+2" at the end of the chain, when in fact, there was +4 sitting there to get drawn into my hand, I had cycled through everything else (its a bit challenging noticing reshuffles in electronic play by the way, you have to pay attention).

You guys here are all helping me greatly...this is what makes Dominion a great game, there's different ways to approach a board and not only learning what works, but how to make it work, is a large part of the fun.

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Epoch

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2011, 05:19:33 pm »
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By the end of the game, I'd draw 3 pawns...and two other non-minions. I think I had 7 minions and 7 pawns and as the deck grew (it all had all my copper and one silver)...it would often get stuck, not drawing a minion (sometimes just drawing a Pawn). I am wondering if I should have held out for Lab. Pawn was bought because it was cheap and it added a 1$ when Minion was in hand, and drew a card when it was not and didn't terminate. Anyway, I bought too many Pawns. I wanted the +buy too obviously, I think the card is very complementary, I just didn't quite get the ratio right.

Rinkworks' point is that you can't buy "too many" Pawns.  Like, your example situation, you have 3 pawns and 2 copper (or whatever).  You just cantrip all the Pawns and get 3 cards and still have an action.  Didn't get any Minions in those 3 cards?  Well, bummer, but if those 3 Pawns hadn't been in your deck in the first place, you would have just drawn the 3 cards that replaced them instead, and...  apparently would still have drawn no Minions.

The only thing that Pawns cost you is opportunity.  You don't "take up space" in your deck (well, unless you draw them dead, but it looks like you can't do that in this deck).  And if you had 7 minions, it looks like the opportunity cost of the pawns wasn't very bad either.  So.
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philosophyguy

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2011, 05:29:25 pm »
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The challenge with Pawns in a Minion deck is that Minions work best when you have multiple Minions per hand. Yes you can cantrip the Pawns, but they really shine when you can use them for +coin while keeping the action chain going. Buying too many Pawns means your Minions get spread thin, and you have to choose between hoping to draw (another) Minion when using Pawn for +card, or choosing Pawn for +coin and then discarding. Unless you're really good at counting cards, it's easy to make a suboptimal play.
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ehunt

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2011, 05:32:18 pm »
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Quick remarks on masquerade:

1. Masquerade isn't slow. Really. As ackack suggested, try the masquerade/big money strategy on the next board you see with masquerade. I used to hate that card, but I was wrong. The problem was that I tried to make masquerade part of an engine, whereas masquerade is perhaps the best card in the game to play solo with a big money strategy.

2. I like the thought experiment that you should think of masquerade as "+2 cards, you may trash a card." It's more important to forget your misconceptions about masquerade and think of it this way. But once you've done that, let me point out that the quirky interface of masquerade isn't insignificant. On the contrary, one of the main reasons that masquerade beats chapel is the way that masquerade often catches a fast trasher with his pants down. My general rule of thumb in the late game is that if it's likely I'll catch an opponent with his pants down, I play masquerade even if it means passing him something like a silver. The quirky interface also explains why masquerade is better than other trashers against cursing attacks (maybe not mountebank, which junks up your deck too fast, and you never know if you should give him your curse or not.)

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ChaosRed

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2011, 05:33:18 pm »
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Point taken in that the density doesn't really change with Pawn, (card neutral, action neutral if you choose the first two options), what's effected is what cards you could have purchased instead that also don't terminate, or whether waiting until you could purchase those better cards was the smarter move. Early on, when I hit 2$, 3$ or 4$ I was buying Pawn, perhaps there were better options on the board. I chose Pawn because it was a "no brainer"...and then sat there frustrated (and worried I would lose) when the Pawns sat there, pulled a card each and failed to pull a Minion.

I think what I learned is Minion is a temperamental chain as you acquire Victory, your last Minion play with more Minions still in the deck, just prays it draws another Minion...another Pawn is a gamble the card is one card deeper. I agree the card should have been useful, its why I bought them en masse, but I am not convinced there weren't better options on the board.

That's really the difference right now with me...I understand basic tactics, but implementing them in a game isn't as cut-and-dry. This is really the main point that ties to the topic at hand...that as you explore to improve your game, you will inevitably fall down a little...it takes that falling down to learn. So for a while, players like me are going to have periods where we lose a lot of games...then hit a decent win streak that puts us up a few notches in skill and quality of opponent, then the cycle continues. Particularly on Iso, where the card combinations are astronomical and choices aren't always clear.



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The Adventurer

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2011, 05:38:27 pm »
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If you keep playing and keep enjoying the game, you shouldn't be too worried about what happens to your ranking ; it often goes on extended jaunts into territory it doesn't really belong in.  Beating 30s happens frequently, even when you're not playing particularly well...So does losing to 0s.

I charted my leaderboard stats for the first 3-4 months i played - the longest dip i had lasted 9 days*.  You're on this forum, so you're doing all you need to improve.  Think, read, play.  Repeat. 

*unless you count my current state of "33-35 for the last 6 weeks, when i had been 36-37 for 10 consecutive days"
Absolutely a good point : it is far from being an obsession of mine to get a good level, and I kinda dislike people who will go and think of only that and play without having fun. That being said, it is also in that spirit that I strive to become a better player, and the ranking is the closest clue I have as to how well I am doing. And for it to go back a few points, it does indicate I might be "peaking" or reaching some kind of plateau with my game style.

...and that peak/plateau has been ongoing for at least 2 weeks now, so it's not just an overnight drop.

As long as my ranking was climbing, I knew I was on the right track, now I just need to figure out what is next to come back on track.

I think that most of us who play regularly have experienced this wax and wane effect.  I believe some of it is caused by trying to repeat earlier successes in environments that really don't support or replicate the same strategies.  Or maybe it is that we lose sight of the game clock while we are building better and more elaborate engines.  I don't really know.  I get frustrated when my roll is disturbed by luckier opponents that obviously mirror me, or by a string of horrible games ruled by terrible shuffle luck.

Isotropic's setup can be annoying when it gets to the point where a player must win a clear majority of games just to tread water, and one bad day can set you back.  This is complicated by the fact that by winning the player has a higher chance to play in seat two.  But I honestly do not fret about it.  One of these days I will go 25-5 and get that level back. 
It does shed some light on my issue. The "repeat earlier successes in environments that really don't support it" is my biggest flaw indeed. I got over the noob mistake "I got screwed by a witch so next game I'll buy 10"  everybody makes at one point, but I guess now I must move on to "reinterpret every board because your nifty combo might be the second best to something else here"... and I'm not quite there yet. I guess you spend some time building your heuristics about this game, and then once you plateau with them, it is about deconstructing them to reach new heights...

Still, I find that playing games with higher leveled players like Mr.Mustard and others really help my game WAY more than playing with new people who are still learning the ropes or getting lucky. Even if I beat a high level player, I still see their strategy building and draw inspiration from it.
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tko

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2011, 05:38:48 pm »
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Last few turns, I was getting to 4$...and it was frightening, that's like "doom" during the end-game. I recovered...I often knew when a big chain was coming, simply by counting what had come before.
After buying a few Provinces, Minions have the tendency to connect for less coin.  You'll be presented with difficult decisions... take 2 coin and buy a Duchy, or get greedy, roll the dice and draw another 4.  Near the end it feels like the game is slipping away, and I've had that same fear in Minion games.  Since you won, you got it right.

And another vote for some Pawns.  7 might be too many, but some Pawns are perfectly fine.

[Note multiple posts occurred whilst I was typing this]
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ChaosRed

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Re: The Decline of My Dominion Skills
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2011, 05:40:11 pm »
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Masquerade isn't slow. Really. As ackack suggested, try the masquerade/big money strategy on the next board you see with masquerade. I used to hate that card, but I was wrong. The problem was that I tried to make masquerade part of an engine, whereas masquerade is perhaps the best card in the game to play solo with a big money strategy.

Yes, yes, I get this, thank you. My point is the simulations are often not against an opponent doing the same thing. Masquerade vs. Masquerade becomes a bit streaky and a bit cumbersome.

Would I have been better off with Chapel, Mine and BM I wonder? I probably wouldn't have with two terminal cards and treasure (much of it spam from my opponent), but as we slogged it off, passing our junk to one another...it felt like it would have been.

It is slow, although card positive, if there's a better trasher on the board...I really feel there's better plays. But that might be the same reaction you had, which is I hate the card, I feel I am forced to play it to win and when my opponent does the same thing, the game seems cumbersome. My reaction is probably far more emotional than logical. Some cards are like that, if Goons is there, you gotta Goon, if Witch is there, you gotta Witch.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 05:42:23 pm by ChaosRed »
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