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[NoMoreFun]

I know it's a Simpsons reference, but could Donald X be referencing "Hommer Simpson"?

[andwilk]

I was really hoping that the extra blank cards would instead be unique "guilds" which would add a game state or permanent condition to the game.  Using these cards would follow the same rules as using Platinum/Colonies and Shelters.

For example (not necessarily fully thought out for balance/viability):

Tax Collector Guild- Gain a curse when you gain a Treasure card.
Farmer's Guild - Trash a card from your hand when you gain a Victory card.
Chaos Guild - Add 4 kingdom piles to the supply.  Remove 3 cards from each kingdom card supply pile.  The end-game condition for empty piles is increased by 1.

[Tables]

Tax Collector Guild- Gain a curse when you gain a Treasure card.

[achmed_sender]

Tax Collector Guild- Gain a curse when you gain a Treasure card.

Or play KC-Beggar....

[werothegreat]

Tax Collector Guild- Gain a curse when you gain a Treasure card.

Or play KC-Beggar....

With a Watchtower/Trader in hand.

[eHalcyon]

Tax Collector Guild- Gain a curse when you gain a Treasure card.

Or play KC-Beggar....

With a Watchtower/Trader in hand.

Insanity Wolf would gladly top deck all those curses.

[andwilk]

Like I said, not fully thought out "guild card" ideas.  I guess it doesn't make so much sense for the tax collector to care if you are gaining a Copper.  It would be better if you gained a curse only when gaining a Treasure costing more than $0.

Happy now? 

[enfynet]

I really think the "wheb buy-spend more" sounds too awkward to be of any use. I think it will just be a cost-activated effect.

What does that mean?

Sorry, was using my ipod.

Action
Effect
-----
When you buy this, you may spend/pay $ more... If you do, then stuff happens

It just feels clunky.

Besides, then "when buy/gain" thing happened in Hinterlands. I think if these have bonus effects, using tokens, it will be something that happens in the Action phase and not the buy phase.

[ftl]

Well, the thing is, for that to happen there needs to be some way to keep track of whether you spent more for a card.

Like, a card that says "you can spend more to buy this... if you do, it has extra effects when you play it" would not work as is because it'll get shuffled into your deck and you'll have no way of knowing or tracking whether you paid more for it.

So I think any later effect would have to be of the form "when you buy this, [something happens to mark how much you paid for it]". But I don't see a good way of doing that without a mat, and we know there aren't any mats.

It could be that you can just pay extra and get coin tokens, and then the card would have a way of using coin tokens.

[ednever]

Well, the thing is, for that to happen there needs to be some way to keep track of whether you spent more for a card.

Like, a card that says "you can spend more to buy this... if you do, it has extra effects when you play it" would not work as is because it'll get shuffled into your deck and you'll have no way of knowing or tracking whether you paid more for it.

So I think any later effect would have to be of the form "when you buy this, [something happens to mark how much you paid for it]". But I don't see a good way of doing that without a mat, and we know there aren't any mats.

It could be that you can just pay extra and get coin tokens, and then the card would have a way of using coin tokens.

Agreed. I see three types of cards:

Type 1
When you buy this, you may pay more. If you do, [some effect] (cards get trashed, other players get attacked, cards get remodeled, you get an extra buy, etc)

Type 2
When you play this [something happens]. You may use a token to make [something else happen].
When you buy this you may pay extra for a token(s)
And/or: when this card is in play you may buy a token
And/or: setup rules: when this card is in the kingdom player may buy tokens
And/or: when you play this, gain a token

Type 3
When you play this, gain a token, and something else
When you buy this you may spend a token to have something happen.

----
What neat about all this is that it looks like there is one type of token - which means, like potion cards- there are synergies with having more than one guilds card in a kingdom.
(Earn tokens with card x, spend them with card y)

Ed

[eHalcyon]

It could be that you can just pay extra and get coin tokens, and then the card would have a way of using coin tokens.

As I was reading your comment I came up with this... and then I got to this line.  Now I wonder if I actually thought of it myself, or if it was just my subconscious reading ahead. 

[LastFootnote]

It could be that you can just pay extra and get coin tokens, and then the card would have a way of using coin tokens.

Man, I hope not. I just started creating cards with this mechanic.

[bedlam]

How about...

When this card is in play, for each turn it is not discarded during your clean up phase place a coin on it. You may spend the tokens at any time during your action phase.
1 coin = +1card/+1 action
2 coins = +2 actions\+1 buy
3coins = +2 cards/+1 action/+2 money
When you spend the coins place the card on your discard pile.
...
Or something like that.

[Davio]

One way of solving the problem at hand with overspending coins is as follows:

Safe - Action

While this is in play, when you buy a card, you may spend up to $3 extra for it.
If you do, set aside this card with a token for every extra $ spent this way.
---------------------
During your buy phase you may spend any amount of tokens from this card.
If you do: +$1 for every token you spend.
At the start of Clean-up, if there are no more tokens on this card, discard it.


Granted, the wording is a bit awkward at some points, but I'm just trying to convey an idea here.

The idea is of course that it functions like a Haven and sort of becomes its own mat.

[NoMoreFun]

I think coin tokens will be oneshot +$1 that you can use any buy phase after you gain them.

The thing is, with these tokens, you can actually get money when it isn't your action/buy phase

You can have effects like

"+1 coin token for each other player"
"When you gain/trash this, +1 coin token"
"While this is in play, when you gain a card, +1 coin token"
"When you're attacked, reveal and discard this for 2 coin tokens"

[Davio]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

[NoMoreFun]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

The extra 6 cards!

[Davio]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

The extra 6 cards!

So the cards are faux mats? 

[SirPeebles]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

Not only Seaside, but Prosperity too.

[Davio]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

Not only Seaside, but Prosperity too.

Yes, Trade Route and the VP Tokens also have mats.

[Beyond Awesome]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

I think they could actually get away without having mats even if Prosperity and Seaside came with them. You never know.

[jbrecken]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

It could be something like when you gain a token you just put it on your discard pile, and when it's time for a shuffle you stand the cards up and let the tokens fall out and move them into your play area.

Or for a similar effect but with less mess, you could set the first card you discard aside and use it as a place to collect tokens and then when it's time to shuffle they go into your play area.  That would mean you don't actually gain tokens until cleanup.

[werothegreat]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

It could be something like when you gain a token you just put it on your discard pile, and when it's time for a shuffle you stand the cards up and let the tokens fall out and move them into your play area.

Or for a similar effect but with less mess, you could set the first card you discard aside and use it as a place to collect tokens and then when it's time to shuffle they go into your play area.  That would mean you don't actually gain tokens until cleanup.

Or just dump the tokens in front of you.  Either or.

[Ozle]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

Looks like Donald has been stealing ideas!

[shraeye]

yes!! guilds!!