Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[DStu]

Haven't played this game yet, but:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/949913/influence-of-initial-meld-on-result-of-game

All the fame of telling this guy how to download the logs are belong to me

[popsofctown]

Writing is a noobtrap, not surprising. 

Clothing is OP. 

It's a little upsetting that there are starts with 40% win rates.  That's pretty darn low.

[timchen]

This does suggest one should prefer metalworking to writing!

On the other hand, I do believe that the win rates are exaggerated by subsequent incorrect plays. (That is, starting with code of laws is less harmful if you do not start using it immediately, for example.)

[teasel]

This does suggest one should prefer metalworking to writing!

On the other hand, I do believe that the win rates are exaggerated by subsequent incorrect plays. (That is, starting with code of laws is less harmful if you do not start using it immediately, for example.)

yep,rather than counting the player that start with writing as initial meld we should count all the noob who don't meld any card over their initial one and let the other player scores more than 15 cards with clothing

[BitTorrent]

This does suggest one should prefer metalworking to writing!

On the other hand, I do believe that the win rates are exaggerated by subsequent incorrect plays. (That is, starting with code of laws is less harmful if you do not start using it immediately, for example.)

If you starts with Metalworking and Writing while your opponent starts with something without castle(eg. sailing, clothing) there are at most 4 cards without a castle in the age 1 pile, which means that the chance of getting a lot of score going on is more likely. (Though you may have to watch out of a clothing flush) If you study good enough you actually knows how much chance is there to get the score in each age 1-3, which can be very powerful with a bit counting.

Though the weakness is clear MW is a dominant type card which can't be easily shared, if you got any effect that can allow you to return a card, its weakness can be reverted into some good strength. Drawing 2 cards while your opponent draw a card is not too lovely, but forcing your opponent to draw a designated card from you while you try to score as much as you can and end up with drawing 2 cards is extremely powerful.

In my opinion MW is definitely a better choice over Writing in base set plays, while some players may have other ideas related to echoes play. Won't talk about it further it is all about styles and master plans from here.

[ancientcampus]

That is informative enough that I think it merits a post in the Articles forum - containing just a link to the article. Is that acceptable?
EDIT: either someone moved the topic, or I've gone mad.

[theory]

That is informative enough that I think it merits a post in the Articles forum - containing just a link to the article. Is that acceptable?

I'll just move this thread.

[popsofctown]

That is informative enough that I think it merits a post in the Articles forum - containing just a link to the article BrokenTree posted in thread, spilling knowledge everywhere. Is that acceptable?

Fixed that for you.

[ancientcampus]

This does suggest one should prefer metalworking to writing!

On the other hand, I do believe that the win rates are exaggerated by subsequent incorrect plays. (That is, starting with code of laws is less harmful if you do not start using it immediately, for example.)

If you starts with Metalworking and Writing while your opponent starts with something without castle(eg. sailing, clothing) there are at most 4 cards without a castle in the age 1 pile, which means that the chance of getting a lot of score going on is more likely. (Though you may have to watch out of a clothing flush) If you study good enough you actually knows how much chance is there to get the score in each age 1-3, which can be very powerful with a bit counting.

Though the weakness is clear MW is a dominant type card which can't be easily shared, if you got any effect that can allow you to return a card, its weakness can be reverted into some good strength. Drawing 2 cards while your opponent draw a card is not too lovely, but forcing your opponent to draw a designated card from you while you try to score as much as you can and end up with drawing 2 cards is extremely powerful.

In my opinion MW is definitely a better choice over Writing in base set plays, while some players may have other ideas related to echoes play. Won't talk about it further it is all about styles and master plans from here.

Good point!

To flesh it out fully:
Age 1: There are 6 non-castle cards, and 9 castle cards.
Age 2: 5 castle cards, 5 non-castle cards
Age 3: 4 castle, 6 non-castle

Age 1: If you open MW/ any non-castle, and your opponent opens non-castle, then your first use will have a 2/3 chance to score at least one point.

[HiveMindEmulator]

It's a little upsetting that there are starts with 40% win rates.  That's pretty darn low.

If you open with Agriculture, one of two things has occured:
1. You had nothing better to meld than Agriculture, which puts you at a disadvantage, but less than a 60/40 disadvantage.
2. You made a poor choice to meld Agriculture, and this is the first of many poor choices.

This effect -- less skilled players being more likely to pick worse openings, and more skilled players being more likely to pick better ones -- will tend to pull all the percentages away from 50%.

[popsofctown]

It's a little upsetting that there are starts with 40% win rates.  That's pretty darn low.

If you open with Agriculture, one of two things has occured:
1. You had nothing better to meld than Agriculture, which puts you at a disadvantage, but less than a 60/40 disadvantage.
2. You made a poor choice to meld Agriculture, and this is the first of many poor choices.

This effect -- less skilled players being more likely to pick worse openings, and more skilled players being more likely to pick better ones -- will tend to pull all the percentages away from 50%.

I agree 40% is the lower bound, but it's hard to know how far off that 40% Agriculture really is. 

[rrenaud]

If you open with Agriculture, one of two things has occured:
1. You had nothing better to meld than Agriculture, which puts you at a disadvantage, but less than a 60/40 disadvantage.
2. You made a poor choice to meld Agriculture, and this is the first of many poor choices.

This effect -- less skilled players being more likely to pick worse openings, and more skilled players being more likely to pick better ones -- will tend to pull all the percentages away from 50%.

rspeer solved this 'player skill confounder' problem for dominion openings.  It would make sense to port it to dominion.