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Author Topic: Easy Puzzles  (Read 808647 times)

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iguanaiguana

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2000 on: October 21, 2015, 03:37:11 pm »
+3

Just playing a single Black Market allows you to get a ton of treasures in play

Great, that's what i was thinking about. There is one more thing though, which increases the count by up to 25 on its own.

Is it moat?
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Simon (DK)

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2001 on: October 21, 2015, 06:02:19 pm »
+1

I assume the "I own only differently named kingdom cards" in the puzzle description applies at all times, so you can't during your turn get a Kingdom card you already own.

I can't find the last thing you talk about, but I've found a few cards that help and I've fixed my mistake. I can now get: 61

In the beginning you have Caravan Guard (played on your opponent's turn), Hireling and Champion in play.
Then you call Ratcactcher, Guide, Transmogrify and Teacher.
Then you play your Princed King's Court and play Golem, playing 6 action cards and calling Coin of the Realm and Duplicate. Call Royal Carriage to play King's Court again. This time you play Throne Room, Procession and Herald, playing 2 cards. 2nd Procession plays Band of Misfits as Herald, playing 2 action cards. 2nd Throne Room plays Disciple, and you play play the other 4 Disciples too (note that the puzzle only states no Kingdom card duplicates, and Disciple isn't a Kingdom card). With that you play Graverobber (gaining Herald and Band of Misfits from the trash), a drawer, Herald (playing 2 action cards), Band of Misfits as Herald (playing 2 action cards), 2 action cards, and Black Market, which plays all the Treasure cards in the game (you've earlier played a lot of non-specific action cards, which may be drawers, and you have a +1 card token, so drawing the treasure cards isn't a problem).
The last played Treasure card is Spoils, and while you resolve that it is the start of your turn and you count your different cards in play: Caravan Guard, Hireling, Champion, Ratcatcher, Guide, Transmogrify, Teacher, King's Court, Golem, Coin of the Realm, Duplicate, Royal Carriage, Throne Room, Procession, Disciple, Graverobber, a drawer, Herald, Black Market, 26 treasure cards* and 16 other action cards for a total of 61 cards.

*Copper, Silver, Gold, Harem, Potion, Philosopher's Stone, Loan, Quarry, Talisman, Contraband, Royal Seal, Venture, Hoard, Bank, Platinum, Horn of Plenty, Diadem, Fool's Gold, Cache, Ill-Gotten Gains, Spoils, Counterfeit, Masterpiece, Stash, Relic and Treasure Trove.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2002 on: October 21, 2015, 06:07:55 pm »
0

I assume the "I own only differently named kingdom cards" in the puzzle description applies at all times, so you can't during your turn get a Kingdom card you already own.

I can't find the last thing you talk about, but I've found a few cards that help and I've fixed my mistake. I can now get: 61

In the beginning you have Caravan Guard (played on your opponent's turn), Hireling and Champion in play.
Then you call Ratcactcher, Guide, Transmogrify and Teacher.
Then you play your Princed King's Court and play Golem, playing 6 action cards and calling Coin of the Realm and Duplicate. Call Royal Carriage to play King's Court again. This time you play Throne Room, Procession and Herald, playing 2 cards. 2nd Procession plays Band of Misfits as Herald, playing 2 action cards. 2nd Throne Room plays Disciple, and you play play the other 4 Disciples too (note that the puzzle only states no Kingdom card duplicates, and Disciple isn't a Kingdom card). With that you play Graverobber (gaining Herald and Band of Misfits from the trash), a drawer, Herald (playing 2 action cards), Band of Misfits as Herald (playing 2 action cards), 2 action cards, and Black Market, which plays all the Treasure cards in the game (you've earlier played a lot of non-specific action cards, which may be drawers, and you have a +1 card token, so drawing the treasure cards isn't a problem).
The last played Treasure card is Spoils, and while you resolve that it is the start of your turn and you count your different cards in play: Caravan Guard, Hireling, Champion, Ratcatcher, Guide, Transmogrify, Teacher, King's Court, Golem, Coin of the Realm, Duplicate, Royal Carriage, Throne Room, Procession, Disciple, Graverobber, a drawer, Herald, Black Market, 26 treasure cards* and 16 other action cards for a total of 61 cards.

*Copper, Silver, Gold, Harem, Potion, Philosopher's Stone, Loan, Quarry, Talisman, Contraband, Royal Seal, Venture, Hoard, Bank, Platinum, Horn of Plenty, Diadem, Fool's Gold, Cache, Ill-Gotten Gains, Spoils, Counterfeit, Masterpiece, Stash, Relic and Treasure Trove.


60, because you returned your spoils to the spoils pile and it isn't in play
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Simon (DK)

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2003 on: October 21, 2015, 06:26:24 pm »
+3

I assume the "I own only differently named kingdom cards" in the puzzle description applies at all times, so you can't during your turn get a Kingdom card you already own.

I can't find the last thing you talk about, but I've found a few cards that help and I've fixed my mistake. I can now get: 61

In the beginning you have Caravan Guard (played on your opponent's turn), Hireling and Champion in play.
Then you call Ratcactcher, Guide, Transmogrify and Teacher.
Then you play your Princed King's Court and play Golem, playing 6 action cards and calling Coin of the Realm and Duplicate. Call Royal Carriage to play King's Court again. This time you play Throne Room, Procession and Herald, playing 2 cards. 2nd Procession plays Band of Misfits as Herald, playing 2 action cards. 2nd Throne Room plays Disciple, and you play play the other 4 Disciples too (note that the puzzle only states no Kingdom card duplicates, and Disciple isn't a Kingdom card). With that you play Graverobber (gaining Herald and Band of Misfits from the trash), a drawer, Herald (playing 2 action cards), Band of Misfits as Herald (playing 2 action cards), 2 action cards, and Black Market, which plays all the Treasure cards in the game (you've earlier played a lot of non-specific action cards, which may be drawers, and you have a +1 card token, so drawing the treasure cards isn't a problem).
The last played Treasure card is Spoils, and while you resolve that it is the start of your turn and you count your different cards in play: Caravan Guard, Hireling, Champion, Ratcatcher, Guide, Transmogrify, Teacher, King's Court, Golem, Coin of the Realm, Duplicate, Royal Carriage, Throne Room, Procession, Disciple, Graverobber, a drawer, Herald, Black Market, 26 treasure cards* and 16 other action cards for a total of 61 cards.

*Copper, Silver, Gold, Harem, Potion, Philosopher's Stone, Loan, Quarry, Talisman, Contraband, Royal Seal, Venture, Hoard, Bank, Platinum, Horn of Plenty, Diadem, Fool's Gold, Cache, Ill-Gotten Gains, Spoils, Counterfeit, Masterpiece, Stash, Relic and Treasure Trove.


60, because you returned your spoils to the spoils pile and it isn't in play

The puzzle description says at the start of your turn. It doesn't say when at the start of your turn. While resolving Spoils it is in play, and it is the start of the turn. I choose this moment to count the cards in play.
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AdamH

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2004 on: October 22, 2015, 07:43:45 am »
+1

Clarification: are Teacher, and the other Travellers considered "kingdom cards" for the purpose of this puzzle? Copper, Silver, Gold? What about Black Market cards? I assume we're allowed to use them and gain them mid-turn or have them in our decks? Or should we be aware of some restriction on this?
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2005 on: October 22, 2015, 11:46:35 am »
0

What is the most possible amount of goons(or cards that act like goons) you can have in play at once?

10, unless you are counting militia, in which case 20, unless you are counting merchant guild, in which case 30.... And so on....
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Asper

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2006 on: October 22, 2015, 11:57:28 am »
+3

Clarification: are Teacher, and the other Travellers considered "kingdom cards" for the purpose of this puzzle? Copper, Silver, Gold? What about Black Market cards? I assume we're allowed to use them and gain them mid-turn or have them in our decks? Or should we be aware of some restriction on this?

I intended to have one of every non-base card, and admit i didn't think of Teacher and Champion (for that restriction).
Edit: Actually, Travellers should only matter for Disciple, as we are still talking about "differently named" cards in play. But yes, you have 5 Disciples at your disposal, if that helps anything. And, yes, you can have any amount of Copper, Silver, Gold etc.

But... I just realized you can circumvent my puzzle by putting the Estate token on King's Court, allowing up to 41 King's Courts... That was not intended. So let's make one of every card, to make things easier. And yes, my puzzle wording allows gaining during the turn, but that is also shifting the focus from what i intended. I should have asked: Name every way you can use to have cards in play at the start of your turn. Sorry for that.

Also, the thing i was referring to which can increase the count by 25 is Summon, the new Promo event, which can be used to gain every supply action card once and play it. This includes all 10 Knights, one of each Ruins and the bane card.

What is the most possible amount of goons(or cards that act like goons) you can have in play at once?

10, unless you are counting militia, in which case 20, unless you are counting merchant guild, in which case 30.... And so on....
Only counting cards that act exactly like goons and no it's not 10

49. You'd need to have your -$2 token on Goons and have 10 Band of Misfits in play, gain the last Goons after playing them and play it, and own all Estates in a 6-player game with Inheritance on Goons. As one Goons is removed by Inheritance (and you can't buy Inheritance after playing your last BoM), you can play one less Goons.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 12:12:38 pm by Asper »
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Limetime

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2007 on: October 22, 2015, 12:00:37 pm »
+1

Asper figured that one out :)
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Asper

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2008 on: October 22, 2015, 12:10:21 pm »
0

I'm sorry, i'm afraid my last puzzle wasn't exactly "easy". It was easy to ask but answering it is much too hard, as i didn't ask it properly. I should have thought more about that. In fact, i have been a bit surprised at how you re-used the same cards to get more in play, because i actually hoped that wouldn't work. Seems i was wrong ;)

Here's an actually easy one, though: I buy Borrow with my -1Card token on top of my deck. Why?
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Deadlock39

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2009 on: October 22, 2015, 01:37:08 pm »
0

What is the most possible amount of goons(or cards that act like goons) you can have in play at once?

26 + 3*number of players
Ferry on Goons
Inherit Goons
Gain 8 Goons, 10 BoM, and 8 Estates
Pass any Estates available from other players to you
King's Court a bunch of Villages and Draw so you can play all your Goonses[\spoiler]

singletee

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2010 on: October 22, 2015, 03:12:22 pm »
+1

I'm sorry, i'm afraid my last puzzle wasn't exactly "easy". It was easy to ask but answering it is much too hard, as i didn't ask it properly. I should have thought more about that. In fact, i have been a bit surprised at how you re-used the same cards to get more in play, because i actually hoped that wouldn't work. Seems i was wrong ;)

Here's an actually easy one, though: I buy Borrow with my -1Card token on top of my deck. Why?

You buy Messenger next, avoiding handing out a card to every player. Maybe you don't want to buff up their Gardens.

eHalcyon

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2011 on: October 22, 2015, 05:42:47 pm »
0

What is the most possible amount of goons(or cards that act like goons) you can have in play at once?

26 + 3*number of players
Ferry on Goons
Inherit Goons
Gain 8 Goons, 10 BoM, and 8 Estates
Pass any Estates available from other players to you
King's Court a bunch of Villages and Draw so you can play all your Goonses[\spoiler]

The number of Estates in the Supply varies depending on the number of players too, so you're missing 4 from the top answer.

Also, you were too slow on this one!

49. You'd need to have your -$2 token on Goons and have 10 Band of Misfits in play, gain the last Goons after playing them and play it, and own all Estates in a 6-player game with Inheritance on Goons. As one Goons is removed by Inheritance (and you can't buy Inheritance after playing your last BoM), you can play one less Goons.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2012 on: October 22, 2015, 05:59:57 pm »
0

What is the most possible amount of goons(or cards that act like goons) you can have in play at once?

26 + 3*number of players
Ferry on Goons
Inherit Goons
Gain 8 Goons, 10 BoM, and 8 Estates
Pass any Estates available from other players to you
King's Court a bunch of Villages and Draw so you can play all your Goonses[\spoiler]

The number of Estates in the Supply varies depending on the number of players too, so you're missing 4 from the top answer.

Also, you were too slow on this one!

49. You'd need to have your -$2 token on Goons and have 10 Band of Misfits in play, gain the last Goons after playing them and play it, and own all Estates in a 6-player game with Inheritance on Goons. As one Goons is removed by Inheritance (and you can't buy Inheritance after playing your last BoM), you can play one less Goons.

Hmmm, I overlooked Asper's answer.

Those extra Estates in 3p+ games mess up the pretty formula I wrote so bah. I also totally missed the possiblity of gaining and playing the last Goons in the pile after getting all the BoM into play, so I was short one on that.

Limetime

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2013 on: October 22, 2015, 08:30:25 pm »
0

Related question:
How many points can you get without changing the game's composition (other than tokens of course) on each turn.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 10:25:22 pm by Limetime »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2014 on: October 22, 2015, 09:08:14 pm »
0

Related question:
How many points can you get without changing the game's composition(not counting tokens of course) on each turn.

Depends on what you mean by "game's composition".  What stuff is allowed to change?  We probably can't add or remove cards from the Supply, right?  What about the Trash?  What about our own decks, or the decks of opponents?

And when you say "each turn", does that mean it has to be sustainable?  I don't think that's possible without VP tokens (or losing VP when it's not your turn to opponents doing these same things).

Some possibilities (assuming that it's just Supply and Trash that have to be the same by the end of the turn):

Distant Lands -- put all 12 on your mat to gain 48VP.

Harem -- steal 12 from other players using Thief to gain 24VP.

Pretty much any VP card -- gain them by having them passed to you via Masquerade.  Alternatively, trash them from opponents and then gain them using Rogue (they don't stay in the Trash so it's OK?).

Gardens, Duke, Vineyard, Fairgrounds, Silk Road, Foedum -- bump up their value by stealing cards from opponents via Rogue, or Masquerade away non-counted cards for counted ones.

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Limetime

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2015 on: October 22, 2015, 10:23:59 pm »
0

Related question:
How many points can you get without changing the game's composition(not counting tokens of course) on each turn.

Depends on what you mean by "game's composition".  What stuff is allowed to change?  We probably can't add or remove cards from the Supply, right?  What about the Trash?  What about our own decks, or the decks of opponents?

And when you say "each turn", does that mean it has to be sustainable?  I don't think that's possible without VP tokens (or losing VP when it's not your turn to opponents doing these same things).

Some possibilities (assuming that it's just Supply and Trash that have to be the same by the end of the turn):

Distant Lands -- put all 12 on your mat to gain 48VP.

Harem -- steal 12 from other players using Thief to gain 24VP.

Pretty much any VP card -- gain them by having them passed to you via Masquerade.  Alternatively, trash them from opponents and then gain them using Rogue (they don't stay in the Trash so it's OK?).

Gardens, Duke, Vineyard, Fairgrounds, Silk Road, Foedum -- bump up their value by stealing cards from opponents via Rogue, or Masquerade away non-counted cards for counted ones.
Game's composition means whatever is in the supply, your deck, your opponent's deck, mats and the trash. VP tokens do not count as they don't affect what is going to happen from a non-strategic point of view. And yes it has to be able to happen every turn.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2016 on: October 22, 2015, 10:44:28 pm »
0

You can King a bunch of Bishops, trashing Fortresses... but you can also play the 49 Goonses (48 actually because you can't gain the last one after playing BoMs) Then you can buy as many cards as you can get buys (the max will be hard to determine) with Trader and an empty Silver Pile (one less Goons if you don't have the 4 pile rule for 5/6 player).

Just from the Goons buys and Goons in play you get 48*49 = 2352 VP tokens.

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2017 on: October 22, 2015, 10:55:39 pm »
0

Oh, when you said "not counting VP tokens" I thought you meant we weren't allowed to count them as VP gained.  Otherwise, I would have mentioned the Trader-Goons trick.
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2018 on: October 23, 2015, 03:50:44 am »
0

I'm sorry, i'm afraid my last puzzle wasn't exactly "easy". It was easy to ask but answering it is much too hard, as i didn't ask it properly. I should have thought more about that. In fact, i have been a bit surprised at how you re-used the same cards to get more in play, because i actually hoped that wouldn't work. Seems i was wrong ;)

Here's an actually easy one, though: I buy Borrow with my -1Card token on top of my deck. Why?

You buy Messenger next, avoiding handing out a card to every player. Maybe you don't want to buff up their Gardens.

Correct. :)
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2019 on: October 23, 2015, 06:23:40 am »
+6

Technically  you can get infinite VP chips each turn  because for the beginning infinite turns of the game you process infinite champions and graverob them back up. After this is done  you pick up a diadem for infinite coins. You then buy infinite number of traveling fairs for infinite buys. You proceed to play at least one goons and using trader shenanigans to get infinite VP chips.
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2020 on: October 23, 2015, 12:47:29 pm »
0

Technically  you can get infinite VP chips each turn  because for the beginning infinite turns of the game you process infinite champions and graverob them back up. After this is done  you pick up a diadem for infinite coins. You then buy infinite number of traveling fairs for infinite buys. You proceed to play at least one goons and using trader shenanigans to get infinite VP chips.

Theoretically you can do that, but technically it isn't possible. ;)
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2021 on: October 23, 2015, 12:55:29 pm »
+3

Technically  you can get infinite VP chips each turn  because for the beginning infinite turns of the game you process infinite champions and graverob them back up. After this is done  you pick up a diadem for infinite coins. You then buy infinite number of traveling fairs for infinite buys. You proceed to play at least one goons and using trader shenanigans to get infinite VP chips.

Theoretically you can do that, but technically it isn't possible. ;)

Technically, he should have used "unbounded" instead of "infinite" in his post, but the point made is clear.

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2022 on: October 23, 2015, 01:36:55 pm »
+3

Technically  you can get infinite VP chips each turn  because for the beginning infinite turns of the game you process infinite champions and graverob them back up. After this is done  you pick up a diadem for infinite coins. You then buy infinite number of traveling fairs for infinite buys. You proceed to play at least one goons and using trader shenanigans to get infinite VP chips.

Theoretically you can do that, but technically it isn't possible. ;)

Technically, he should have used "unbounded" instead of "infinite" in his post, but the point made is clear.


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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2023 on: November 12, 2015, 01:11:40 am »
+2

At the start of my turn, I have a Coin of the Realm on my tavern mat. During the turn, I call it. At the end of the turn, it's back on my tavern mat. How did it get there?
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #2024 on: November 12, 2015, 01:18:13 am »
+4

At the start of my turn, I have a Coin of the Realm on my tavern mat. During the turn, I call it. At the end of the turn, it's back on my tavern mat. How did it get there?

Call your Coin of the Realm. Play Black Market. Buy Mandarin; Coin of the Realm goes on your deck. Draw some cards somehow; now Coin is back in hand. Play Coin of the Realm and it goes back to your tavern mat.
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