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eHalcyon

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1875 on: July 28, 2015, 04:03:02 pm »
0

So, you're missing Lost City, Advisor, Envoy, and, I guess, Tribute.

(And Governor should be in all of those groups.)
Advisor, Envoy, and Tribute instantly affect you -- not them.  And there's also Tournament.

Tribute instantly affects them...
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1876 on: July 29, 2015, 07:28:25 am »
0

So, you're missing Lost City, Advisor, Envoy, and, I guess, Tribute.

(And Governor should be in all of those groups.)
Advisor, Envoy, and Tribute instantly affect you -- not them.  And there's also Tournament.

Tribute instantly affects them...

I mean, anything affects them.  You gaining from a pile affects them.  Them knowing what is in your hand affects them.  Jupiter's orbit affects them.  What I meant though is that it doesn't give them coins, buys, cards, VP, etc. right now.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1877 on: July 29, 2015, 12:59:12 pm »
+3

So, you're missing Lost City, Advisor, Envoy, and, I guess, Tribute.

(And Governor should be in all of those groups.)
Advisor, Envoy, and Tribute instantly affect you -- not them.  And there's also Tournament.

Tribute instantly affects them...

I mean, anything affects them.  You gaining from a pile affects them.  Them knowing what is in your hand affects them.  Jupiter's orbit affects them.  What I meant though is that it doesn't give them coins, buys, cards, VP, etc. right now.

But it discards two of their cards, which is an actual thing that matters.  It can cause a reshuffle.
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1878 on: July 30, 2015, 07:05:14 pm »
+2

Puzzle:

At the start of my turn, before playing any cards, I draw 56 cards.

I did not play any Durations on my previous turn, nor did I buy any Events, or set aside any cards to put into my hand later, and my opponent(s) did not play any cards with a non-Attack player interaction effect.

How did I do it?
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JacquesTheBard

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1879 on: July 30, 2015, 07:22:19 pm »
+1

Well, I suppose that calling 10 Guides would successfully draw 50 cards. You wouldn't have more than a normal 5 card hand, but you certainly would draw a lot of cards.
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1880 on: July 30, 2015, 07:48:04 pm »
+1

Well, I suppose that calling 10 Guides would successfully draw 50 cards. You wouldn't have more than a normal 5 card hand, but you certainly would draw a lot of cards.

And you could draw 30 more cards that stay in hand via KC-Hireling, played on an even earlier turn.
And with this hand of 30 cards, you could call 10 Ratcatchers to trash 9 Cultists and a Rat/Overgrown Estate from your hand, drawing 28 more cards.  This requires having 10 Hirelings, 10 Ratcatchers, 9 Cultists.  You don't need 10 KCs because of KC-KC or Procession-Graverobber tricks.  The Guides draw more, so empty that pile and give up one Ratcatcher, I guess.  So that would be 50+30+27 = 97 cards drawn.
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1881 on: July 30, 2015, 07:59:35 pm »
0

Well, I suppose that calling 10 Guides would successfully draw 50 cards. You wouldn't have more than a normal 5 card hand, but you certainly would draw a lot of cards.

And you could draw 30 more cards that stay in hand via KC-Hireling, played on an even earlier turn.
And with this hand of 30 cards, you could call 10 Ratcatchers to trash 9 Cultists and a Rat/Overgrown Estate from your hand, drawing 28 more cards.  This requires having 10 Hirelings, 10 Ratcatchers, 9 Cultists.  You don't need 10 KCs because of KC-KC or Procession-Graverobber tricks.  The Guides draw more, so empty that pile and give up one Ratcatcher, I guess.  So that would be 50+30+27 = 97 cards drawn.

He says no duration cards out though.  You could 9 transmute 9 rats into 9 cultists (you already have 1), and then use 10 rat catchers to trash the 10 cultists.  Then you wouldn't have 3 piles gone.  This would be 39 cards, plus the 50 from the guides would give you 89.
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Seprix

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1882 on: July 30, 2015, 08:01:49 pm »
+1

Hand: 5 Rats
Deck: 10 Rats, 10 Cultists, 140 random cards

On Reserve Mat: 10 Ratcatchers, 10 Transmorgifies, 10 Guides, 10 Royal Carriages.

Before you play any cards, you may resolve actions.

Hireling has been KC'd 10 times with 10 KCs on an even previous turn (if Wero intended this way), bringing card draw to a total of 30.
Call all 10 Ratcatchers into play, trashing a Rat each time, drawing a Rat. 10 cards have been drawn this way.
Call all 10 Transmorgifies into play, trashing a Cultist each time, drawing a Cultist. 30 cards have been drawn this way.
Call a Guide into play, calling a Royal Carriage into play each time. 100 cards have been drawn this way.

A total of 140 cards can be 'drawn' beforehand, 170 if Hireling on a previous previous turn counts.

*There may be a question where Royal Carriage is not allowed to be used on Reserve cards. Since Reserve Cards are played when taken off the Tavern Mat, I would argue that they do in fact count after consulting the rulebook on the matter. Royal Carriage works on action cards that have been put into play, and when you call a reserve card, it is put into play.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 08:03:40 pm by Seprix »
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sudgy

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1883 on: July 30, 2015, 09:13:56 pm »
+2

*There may be a question where Royal Carriage is not allowed to be used on Reserve cards. Since Reserve Cards are played when taken off the Tavern Mat, I would argue that they do in fact count after consulting the rulebook on the matter. Royal Carriage works on action cards that have been put into play, and when you call a reserve card, it is put into play.

Reserve cards aren't played when taken off the Tavern Mat, they're just moved into play.  I'm pretty sure it doesn't work.

Well, I suppose that calling 10 Guides would successfully draw 50 cards. You wouldn't have more than a normal 5 card hand, but you certainly would draw a lot of cards.

And you could draw 30 more cards that stay in hand via KC-Hireling, played on an even earlier turn.
And with this hand of 30 cards, you could call 10 Ratcatchers to trash 9 Cultists and a Rat/Overgrown Estate from your hand, drawing 28 more cards.  This requires having 10 Hirelings, 10 Ratcatchers, 9 Cultists.  You don't need 10 KCs because of KC-KC or Procession-Graverobber tricks.  The Guides draw more, so empty that pile and give up one Ratcatcher, I guess.  So that would be 50+30+27 = 97 cards drawn.

He says no duration cards out though.  You could 9 transmute 9 rats into 9 cultists (you already have 1), and then use 10 rat catchers to trash the 10 cultists.  Then you wouldn't have 3 piles gone.  This would be 39 cards, plus the 50 from the guides would give you 89.

He said no duration cards the previous turn; you can play as many durations as you want before then.
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Erick648

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1884 on: July 30, 2015, 10:04:04 pm »
+1

I can get to 157 in a 6-player game (final hand size: 92).

Kingdom: Ratcatcher, Guide, Watchtower, Duplicate, Transmogrify, Cultist, Inheritance

Inherited Cultists. 

Relevant Cards in Supply:
20 Estates (courtesy of blocked Ambassadors; note that it starts with 16 Estates in a 6-player game)
3 Cultists
Empty piles: Guide, Ratcatcher, Transmogrify (note that it's 6-player game, so it takes 4 piles to end it)

Relevant Cards in Deck:
14 Estates
6 Cultists
1 Watchtower

Relevant Cards on Tavern Mat:
10 Guides
10 Ratcatchers
10 Transmogrifies
9 Duplicates

At start of turn:
Call 10 Guides (+50 cards, 50 total)
Call 1 Transmogrify to trash Cultist->Estate (+3 cards, 53 total)
Call 9 Duplicates to gain 9 more Estates
Reveal Watchtower to trash all 10 new Estates (+30 cards, 83 total)
Call 1 Transmogrify to trash Cultist->Cultist (+3 cards, 86 total)
Reveal Watchtower to trash the new Cultist (+3 cards, 89 total)
Call 8 Transmogrifies to trash Estate->Estate (+24 cards, 113 total)
Reveal Watchtower to trash all 8 new Estates (+24 cards, 127 total)
Call 6 Ratcatchers to trash Estates (+18 cards, 145 total)
Call 4 Ratcatchers to trash Cultists (+12 cards, 157 total)

Note that this won't even end the game, as the Estate and Cultist piles will still have 2 cards in them.
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Seprix

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1885 on: July 30, 2015, 10:09:46 pm »
0

^ Instead of doing all that, simply have most of the Estates in your deck inherited as Cultists, have 9 Cultists in your deck, and simply transmogrify one of them into a Cultist at one point, transmogrifying any Estates into estates every 3 to make sure you draw up the estates you gained. I can imagine there's a way to make sure all the Estates and Cultists there can be gained.

And I guess Royal Carriage doesn't work.

Empty piles of Ratcatcher, Guide, and Transmogrify, with one Watchtower in your hand.

EDIT: Well, hold on. Let me think about this.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 10:14:49 pm by Seprix »
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Seprix

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1886 on: July 30, 2015, 10:23:59 pm »
+1

Got it. You can be more efficient with your trashing by gaining Hunting Grounds from a Cultist Transmogrify, netting 3 Estates to be trashed with Watchtower, letting you get extra to trash after emptying the Cultist and the Estates, including Rats and Overgrown Estate.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 10:25:43 pm by Seprix »
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ConMan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1887 on: July 30, 2015, 10:50:18 pm »
+3

If you Procession all 10 Hirelings, then retrieve them from the trash with Graverobber, then King's Court them all along with 8 Hireling-Inherited* Estates (which I think is the most you can get from a tree of KC's), you can also Procession**/Throne Room/whatever most of the remaining Estates - 6 in a 2-player game, giving you +86 Cards by my reckoning.

* Via cost-reduction, of course.
** Having Processioned the Hirelings in a tree pattern, you trash most of the Processions and regain them from the trash as well.
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Seprix

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1888 on: July 30, 2015, 10:53:06 pm »
0

If you Procession all 10 Hirelings, then retrieve them from the trash with Graverobber, then King's Court them all along with 8 Hireling-Inherited* Estates (which I think is the most you can get from a tree of KC's), you can also Procession**/Throne Room/whatever most of the remaining Estates - 6 in a 2-player game, giving you +86 Cards by my reckoning.

* Via cost-reduction, of course.
** Having Processioned the Hirelings in a tree pattern, you trash most of the Processions and regain them from the trash as well.

If you're going to do that, you would need to not gain all 10, since we all established the top way of doing things above, it would need to be 9 Hirelings, and it would be pointless to do anyways, since Procession covers only the previous turn, expressly forbidden by Wero.
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werothegreat

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1889 on: July 31, 2015, 12:13:04 am »
+1

Let me clarify: no Reserve-calling was done either.

And I said that no Duration was played on the last turn, not that there weren't any in play.  ConMan has come closest.  I may have to up the number of cards drawn, but he's still missing one card.
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Erick648

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1890 on: July 31, 2015, 12:25:57 am »
0

In that case, couldn't you play Procession-Procession-Hireling-Hireling-Graverobber-Graverobber-Graverobber (with appropriate village support) every turn for 14 turns (or any arbitrarily large number of turns), then do nothing for a turn (so you didn't play any Durations on that turn), then draw 56 cards (or 4 times the number of turns you Processioned Hirelings) at the start of your next turn?

Note that Procession gains won't end the game if there's no $7 Action cards and no $5 Action cards other than Graverobber (heck, you could avoid gaining anything with Procession if you put the Ferry token on Graverobber).

Or does it all have to be set up in a single turn?

If so, does a Band of Misfits mimicking a Ferried Hireling count as a Duration for purposes of this puzzle (I believe that technically it is one, since it gains the mimicked card's types)?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 12:29:32 am by Erick648 »
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1891 on: July 31, 2015, 12:26:30 am »
0

Well one clear implication of your wording is opponents playing attacks on you
It seems that duration attacks won't do anything to you in this scenario, so we can focus on cards that effect your hand (basically)...or reactions!

+9 Horse Trader Cards!
I'm wrong, but that specific wording still leaves questions
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 12:27:33 am by Ghacob »
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Seprix

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1892 on: July 31, 2015, 12:29:35 am »
0

Horse Traders is a good, fine idea. But it's Caravan Guard.
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1893 on: July 31, 2015, 12:33:17 am »
0

Horse Traders is a good, fine idea. But it's Caravan Guard.
That's what I was thinking too at first, but they draw the card during your opponent's turn. Unless there's a use for coin in this puzzle, that won't mean much
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Seprix

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1894 on: July 31, 2015, 12:35:27 am »
0

Horse Traders is a good, fine idea. But it's Caravan Guard.
That's what I was thinking too at first, but they draw the card during your opponent's turn. Unless there's a use for coin in this puzzle, that won't mean much

Princed Storyteller via Highways previously? Note that Lighthouse and co. wouldn't work.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 12:36:38 am by Seprix »
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werothegreat

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1895 on: July 31, 2015, 12:49:50 am »
0

Hint:

Think about the most cards you can possibly draw without Reserves, set aside cards, opponents playing cards that draw you cards, or cards/Events played/bought this turn or the turn immediately before.
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1896 on: July 31, 2015, 12:56:40 am »
0

Hint:

Think about the most cards you can possibly draw without Reserves, set aside cards, opponents playing cards that draw you cards, or cards/Events played/bought this turn or the turn immediately before.

...That's the puzzle...
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eHalcyon

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1897 on: July 31, 2015, 01:08:08 am »
0

If you Procession all 10 Hirelings, then retrieve them from the trash with Graverobber, then King's Court them all along with 8 Hireling-Inherited* Estates (which I think is the most you can get from a tree of KC's), you can also Procession**/Throne Room/whatever most of the remaining Estates - 6 in a 2-player game, giving you +86 Cards by my reckoning.

* Via cost-reduction, of course.
** Having Processioned the Hirelings in a tree pattern, you trash most of the Processions and regain them from the trash as well.

If you're going to do that, you would need to not gain all 10, since we all established the top way of doing things above, it would need to be 9 Hirelings, and it would be pointless to do anyways, since Procession covers only the previous turn, expressly forbidden by Wero.

I don't understand what you mean here...

Horse Traders is a good, fine idea. But it's Caravan Guard.
That's what I was thinking too at first, but they draw the card during your opponent's turn. Unless there's a use for coin in this puzzle, that won't mean much

Princed Storyteller via Highways previously? Note that Lighthouse and co. wouldn't work.

Hey hey, Prince seems like an easy way to increase draw.  Can't we have 10 Princed cards?  With cost reduction you could do Hunting Grounds, or you could just do Storyteller that keeps drawing Platinum (and later, Bank).
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1898 on: July 31, 2015, 01:26:56 am »
+2

Prince plays the cards though.  The puzzle specifies "before playing any cards".
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1899 on: July 31, 2015, 04:35:12 am »
0

You can always use 23987429384729384723984 coin tokens and buy a Doctor without playing a card.
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