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Author Topic: Easy Puzzles  (Read 333415 times)

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singletee

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3350 on: July 18, 2019, 04:53:11 pm »
+1

While my opponent decides what this turn's purchase will be, I realized that the synergy Goons and Worker's Village is probably key to winning this game, but I don't have any Goons, there are no Goons left in the supply, no Goons in the trash, and all of my opponent's Goons are on his Island Mat.  But by the time my opponent is done deciding, I've already realized that's A-OK.  A dozen turns later, I play four Goons in a turn and pile out the Estates for a win.

What happened?

All those factors would be technically true if Goons was not in the Supply, so:

Goons is available in the Black Market deck.

You buy the only one, then KC the Goons for 3 plays, while calling RC for the fourth.


Hmm, if this is correct, then I dislike the puzzle, because it simply comes down to a trickery of "all of my opponent's Goons" actually means "no Goons", because my opponent doesn't have any. Guess what, all of my opponent's Goons are also Victory cards that are on his Tavern Mat, and are worth 100 at game end! It's too much like this: https://xkcd.com/169/.

Indeed, also that's not playing 4 Goons. That's playing 1 Goons 4 times. If you're going to be pedantic at least get it right.

popsofctown

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3351 on: July 18, 2019, 06:38:20 pm »
0

That is not the solution I have in mind, although of course it's difficult to promise you'll find mine more satisfying or unpedantic.
"No Goons left in the supply" was intended to mean that there is an empty supply pile for Goons, I don't care to argue to what extent those English words should mean exactly that, but it will be nice if someone can solve the puzzle for an empty Goons pile in the supply.

I actually almost designed a similar puzzle involving Black Market so I was thinking about an empty Goons supply pile to preclude Black Market Goons presence.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 06:43:38 pm by popsofctown »
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scolapasta

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3352 on: July 18, 2019, 06:49:09 pm »
0

That is not the solution I have in mind, although of course it's difficult to promise you'll find mine more satisfying or unpedantic.
"No Goons left in the supply" was intended to mean that there is an empty supply pile for Goons, I don't care to argue to what extent those English words should mean exactly that, but it will be nice if someone can solve the puzzle for an empty Goons pile in the supply.

I actually almost designed a similar puzzle involving Black Market so I was thinking about an empty Goons supply pile to preclude Black Market Goons presence.

Fair enough. I didn't think that was the solution you had in mind, but it's the only thing I could come up with (for now).

I'm actually happy to hear there's something that doesn't involve BM.
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singletee

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3353 on: July 18, 2019, 06:49:47 pm »
0

That is not the solution I have in mind, although of course it's difficult to promise you'll find mine more satisfying or unpedantic.
"No Goons left in the supply" was intended to mean that there is an empty supply pile for Goons, I don't care to argue to what extent those English words should mean exactly that, but it will be nice if someone can solve the puzzle for an empty Goons pile in the supply.

I actually almost designed a similar puzzle involving Black Market so I was thinking about an empty Goons supply pile to preclude Black Market Goons presence.

Oh, I see. Apologies, I misread some things and thought that was the intended solution.

hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3354 on: July 18, 2019, 08:36:05 pm »
+3

While my opponent decides what this turn's purchase will be, I realized that the synergy Goons and Worker's Village is probably key to winning this game, but I don't have any Goons, there are no Goons left in the supply, no Goons in the trash, and all of my opponent's Goons are on his Island Mat.  But by the time my opponent is done deciding, I've already realized that's A-OK.  A dozen turns later, I play four Goons in a turn and pile out the Estates for a win.

What happened?

I'm pretty sure this comes down to finding a location that can contain owner-less cards other than the supply and the trash. I'm also pretty sure that I have a solution (after some searching on the wiki to figure out whether it was valid): Possession is in the supply. The opponent wins the Goons split 6/4, and either decides or is possessed to set aside all of their Goons with Island. Then, they Possess you, and (for some reason, maybe tfb; the Goons don't really benefit the opponent when possessed anyway) decide to "trash" all of your Goons. While they decide what "this turn's purchase" should be (i.e. your purchase which they will gain), "your" 4 Goons are not technically yours, nor are they technically in the trash. They are set aside and owner-less. However, as soon as your turn ends, they are yours again.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 10:07:37 pm by hhelibebcnofnena »
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popsofctown

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3355 on: July 18, 2019, 11:29:14 pm »
+1

This is the solution I had in mind :D
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AJD

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3356 on: July 19, 2019, 10:39:34 am »
0

I'm also pretty sure that I have a solution (after some searching on the wiki to figure out whether it was valid)

Why is this in the "easy puzzles" thread?
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3357 on: July 19, 2019, 11:28:35 am »
0

I'm also pretty sure that I have a solution (after some searching on the wiki to figure out whether it was valid)

Why is this in the "easy puzzles" thread?

The concept itself was easy for me once I figured out what the puzzle was actually asking. I just needed to look up the exact wording on one of the cards to figure out whether it was valid. I could have looked in my Dominion box, except that I have the 1st edition version of most expansions, including Alchemy, and I wasn't sure if this was one of the few cases where the slight wording change from 1E to 2E mattered (it's not).
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popsofctown

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3358 on: July 19, 2019, 11:34:39 am »
0

I thought it was easy D:
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popsofctown

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3359 on: July 19, 2019, 06:03:21 pm »
0

I'll redeem myself.
I am playing a game with just the base set.

There are no attacks in play.  It is my third turn of the game.  I play just one card, but after I play it, I have no cards left in my hand!  What has happened??
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math

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3360 on: July 19, 2019, 07:00:40 pm »
0

I'll redeem myself.
I am playing a game with just the base set.

There are no attacks in play.  It is my third turn of the game.  I play just one card, but after I play it, I have no cards left in my hand!  What has happened??

Um, are you talking about having played a Chapel?  (I don't think the spoiler is really needed...)
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crj

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3361 on: July 19, 2019, 07:57:25 pm »
0

Then, they Possess you, and (for some reason, maybe tfb; the Goons don't really benefit the opponent when possessed anyway) decide to "trash" all of your Goons. While they decide what "this turn's purchase" should be (i.e. your purchase which they will gain), "your" 4 Goons are not technically yours
I'd considered and rejected that possibility. I can't see anything in the rules which says those cards cease to be yours?
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math

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3362 on: July 19, 2019, 08:08:07 pm »
+1

Then, they Possess you, and (for some reason, maybe tfb; the Goons don't really benefit the opponent when possessed anyway) decide to "trash" all of your Goons. While they decide what "this turn's purchase" should be (i.e. your purchase which they will gain), "your" 4 Goons are not technically yours
I'd considered and rejected that possibility. I can't see anything in the rules which says those cards cease to be yours?

The Inheritance rules say that a card stops being yours when it is trashed, and cards trashed on a Possession turn are still trashed even though they are set aside afterwards.  There isn't a specific ruling in this case because it never comes up for Estates, but I would assume that the Estates or Goons stop being yours when they are trashed and become yours again when they are returned to your discard pile.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3363 on: July 20, 2019, 03:48:40 am »
0

Then, they Possess you, and (for some reason, maybe tfb; the Goons don't really benefit the opponent when possessed anyway) decide to "trash" all of your Goons. While they decide what "this turn's purchase" should be (i.e. your purchase which they will gain), "your" 4 Goons are not technically yours
I'd considered and rejected that possibility. I can't see anything in the rules which says those cards cease to be yours?

The Inheritance rules say that a card stops being yours when it is trashed, and cards trashed on a Possession turn are still trashed even though they are set aside afterwards.  There isn't a specific ruling in this case because it never comes up for Estates, but I would assume that the Estates or Goons stop being yours when they are trashed and become yours again when they are returned to your discard pile.

Yeah, the key is that Possession doesnít stop cards from being trashed... they are trashed like normal, and then the trashed cards are set aside. So when they are trashed like normal, they stop being yours; itís no different than if you had trashed them while not possessed. Though I donít think itís in a rulebook, it has been ruled and is understood that when the set-aside card returns to your discard pile, it becomes yours again.
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crj

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3364 on: July 20, 2019, 06:39:08 pm »
0

Hmm. OK. Staring really carefully at the rules on trashing, on Fortress, on Possession makes me reluctantly agree with that interpretation.

Having done that exercise, I now believe the trashed cards do hit the trash pile momentarily before being set aside? Alas, since that happens before on-trash effects, I guess there's no underhanded way to arrange that Possession loses track of them...
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popsofctown

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3365 on: July 21, 2019, 12:43:04 am »
0

I'll redeem myself.
I am playing a game with just the base set.

There are no attacks in play.  It is my third turn of the game.  I play just one card, but after I play it, I have no cards left in my hand!  What has happened??

Um, are you talking about having played a Chapel?  (I don't think the spoiler is really needed...)
Of course you need to spoiler it don't ruin these kinds of puzzles.  This is the puzzles people love
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AJD

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3366 on: July 21, 2019, 09:14:19 am »
+3


Rules
  • DON'T use Spoiler Tags these ones, just post the answer
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faust

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3367 on: August 02, 2019, 10:18:22 am »
0

At the start of my turn, I have no cards and my opponent has 10 cards. At the end of the turn, I have 10 cards and my opponent has no cards. What happened?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3368 on: August 02, 2019, 10:31:38 am »
0

At the start of my turn, I have no cards and my opponent has 10 cards. At the end of the turn, I have 10 cards and my opponent has no cards. What happened?

You and your opponent's entire decks only have 10 cards each; and he bought 3 Expeditions on his last turn to draw all 10.

You played Durations last turn which drew you a cards at the start of this turn (Wharf, Caravan, etc). Then you played a Militia and 2 Torturers to bring your opponent down to 0 cards. Then you bought Expeditions to end your turn with 10 cards.

(There's probably some answer you were looking for that's more specific to the number of cards being 10 specifically...)
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faust

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3369 on: August 02, 2019, 10:33:25 am »
+1

At the start of my turn, I have no cards and my opponent has 10 cards. At the end of the turn, I have 10 cards and my opponent has no cards. What happened?

You and your opponent's entire decks only have 10 cards each; and he bought 3 Expeditions on his last turn to draw all 10.

You played Durations last turn which drew you a cards at the start of this turn (Wharf, Caravan, etc). Then you played a Militia and 2 Torturers to bring your opponent down to 0 cards. Then you bought Expeditions to end your turn with 10 cards.

(There's probably some answer you were looking for that's more specific to the number of cards being 10 specifically...)
Maybe it was not clear. At the start of your turn, you have no cards. Not in your hand, not in your deck, not in play, not anywhere.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3370 on: August 02, 2019, 10:34:57 am »
0

At the start of my turn, I have no cards and my opponent has 10 cards. At the end of the turn, I have 10 cards and my opponent has no cards. What happened?

You and your opponent's entire decks only have 10 cards each; and he bought 3 Expeditions on his last turn to draw all 10.

You played Durations last turn which drew you a cards at the start of this turn (Wharf, Caravan, etc). Then you played a Militia and 2 Torturers to bring your opponent down to 0 cards. Then you bought Expeditions to end your turn with 10 cards.

(There's probably some answer you were looking for that's more specific to the number of cards being 10 specifically...)
Maybe it was not clear. At the start of your turn, you have no cards. Not in your hand, not in your deck, not in play, not anywhere.

Ah, you did say "no cards" and not "no cards in hand"; I see.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3371 on: August 02, 2019, 11:52:34 am »
0

Ok so instead... last turn you played a bunch of Inventors and then Procession on Cobbler a bunch; failing to gain a replacement because nothing cost , and used Bonfires to trash all of your cards.

So at the start of your turn, you can gain a bunch Inventors to your hand and other engine pieces to your hand. You have villager tokens lying around also so you don't need to spend gains on Villages.

Using Inventors to gain Knights, Processions, and Torturers, you are able to trash all 10 of your opponents cards.

You then buy some Bonfires to get back down to 10 cards exactly.
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faust

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3372 on: August 02, 2019, 11:53:55 am »
+1

Ok so instead... last turn you played a bunch of Inventors and then Procession on Cobbler a bunch; failing to gain a replacement because nothing cost , and used Bonfires to trash all of your cards.
Cobbler is a Night card; you cannot Procession it.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3373 on: August 02, 2019, 11:55:39 am »
0

Ok so instead... last turn you played a bunch of Inventors and then Procession on Cobbler a bunch; failing to gain a replacement because nothing cost , and used Bonfires to trash all of your cards.
Cobbler is a Night card; you cannot Procession it.

Oops! But you can just as easily play a bunch of Cobblers and then Bonfire them away. I don't know why I overcomplicated it with Procession at all.
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #3374 on: August 02, 2019, 11:57:11 am »
+2

Ok so instead... last turn you played a bunch of Inventors and then Procession on Cobbler a bunch; failing to gain a replacement because nothing cost , and used Bonfires to trash all of your cards.
Cobbler is a Night card; you cannot Procession it.

Oops! But you can just as easily play a bunch of Cobblers and then Bonfire them away. I don't know why I overcomplicated it with Procession at all.
No; you can only buy Bonfire in the buy phase, which is before the Night phase.
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