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[Razzishi]

http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201303/11/game-20130311-193742-4ad62f41.html

I've done this twice now over 20 or so games played.  I'm no expert so I'm not going to bother saying much, but it seems ludicrous when your opponent has no way to break it up; in that game my opponent had Gunpowder to potentially nuke my Fermenting, but never had enough factory icons to use it.  Drawing 7 cards with one action is sorta good.  I'm wondering if the Castle icon on Fermenting is solely for game-play balance reasons, allowing more answers to it (and being a totally useless icon when Fermenting is best); thematically I'd think Crown (or a 3rd Leaf, which probably would be way too good) would make more sense.

[ednever]

The military-industrial complex needs it's wine!

Ed

[Hideyoshi]

You may consider the Castle on fermentation as weakness. You may stop fermentation by engineering or gunpowder easily, or even compass can weaken fermentation.

Other than breaking the combo directly, you may see that if your opponent want to use fermentation + reformation, they will probably do nothing other than drawing and tucking until age 7 for bicycle/lightning. If you cannot break fermentation directly, you can just score and claim the achievements as your opponent may not stop you easily. If you claim 4-5 achievements, even bicycle is difficult to help the fermentation to win.

[dan11295]

Been on the short end of this combo a few times. Getting the cards to counter can be hard because Gunpowder can be easily drawn and tucked (or played)by the player doing the combo.

With echoes a similar hard to counter combo is Industrialization with Plumbing echoed. Draw and tuck, then score a high value card you just tucked. With enough factories you can end the game in 4-5 turns giving an opponent limited time to counter. Good chance the tucking player is able to hide away clock based attacks like Mass Media, Rocketry, etc.

[Hideyoshi]

A nice combo in echo is bifocals and photography with blue cards splayed right. You can foreshadow a 10 and meld it immediately

[theory]

Compass is the ultra-hard counter to Reformation/Fermenting.  You don't really need Bicycle to finish off the Fer/Ref combo, but it certainly helps a lot.

[ksasaki]

I found paper into classification / measurement to be a particularly devastating combo in echoes.  I know about that fermenting / reformation thing, and I can imagine it is pretty hard to stop in the base game.  In echoes, if you can have toothbrush below your fermenting / reformation, watch out.   Tuck all cards of one value from your hand before you draw?  you don't even need reformation anymore (just to splay right!).

In echoes, you just have a lot more flexibility in how to respond, adding a red card to eliminate castles in age 3 and 4 helps, not to mention all the new "trolly" cards.  Echoes is just a more complete experience, IMO, though it does take significantly more analysis and thinking to make optimal moves.

[ksasaki]

http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201303/12/game-20130312-204308-e9eace70.html

ladies and gentleman: fermenting toothbrush

[Kirian]

Must... have... strategy/tactics articles...

Edit:  Like... I'm || this close to grabbing the domain name to make sure someone in the community has it, with intent to transfer to theory or rrenaud at their leisure.

[popsofctown]

Must... have... strategy/tactics articles...

Edit:  Like... I'm || this close to grabbing the domain name to make sure someone in the community has it, with intent to transfer to theory or rrenaud at their leisure.

I'll give you an internet cookie if you grab InnovationTactics.