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[thirtyseven]

That's not all. I have pears too (Asian pears at that, and I love Asian pears), and those are free. Not just pears, too - clementines, kiwifruits, and cantaloupe, which are among my favorite fruits. Why pay for crappy apples when I have those?

I eat other fruit too, but there's something intrinsically awesome about the apple, and I crave apples enough that I don't mind that I've tasted better apples before.

[ashersky]

That's not all. I have pears too (Asian pears at that, and I love Asian pears), and those are free. Not just pears, too - clementines, kiwifruits, and cantaloupe, which are among my favorite fruits. Why pay for crappy apples when I have those?

I eat other fruit too, but there's something intrinsically awesome about the apple, and I crave apples enough that I don't mind that I've tasted better apples before.

I have no fruit analogy that works for me.

Isotopic works on tablets.  Goko doesn't.  Goko literally has given me no choice but to NOT switch and NOT give them my money.

[LastFootnote]

It's the childish anonymous insults I see being flung at RGG and Donald X. that really annoy me, but it says more about the whiny little "I'm entitled to free stuff" hippies than it says about what may yet turn out to be a poor business decision on RGG's part.

I guess I don't know that much about hippies, but I haven't ever heard that they thought they were entitled to free stuff.

I also find those insults tiring. It's hard to imagine a better creator/fanbase relationship than Donald has with the fans of Dominion. As he's said, he's there for us.

Isotopic works on tablets.  Goko doesn't.  Goko literally has given me no choice but to NOT switch and NOT give them my money.

Goko Dominion works great on my 4th-gen iPad. It's smooth as silk.

[soulnet]

I don't think Donald or RGG are money-hungry beasts or anything like that. I DO think they made a bad buiseness decision. Very bad. Even if it reports them money (I have no idea on how much money they are making with the Goko license, if any).

BTW, I don't think playing base game is a slice of the game. I like playing online, but I like IRL much better. I would play base IRL but I would not play only base online, is not competitive enough and also not fun socially as an IRL can be, so so much for the "free Goko" part.

And also, I agree that boycotting probably does not work on this case, but I personally do not like myself when I support people that do wrong. The more wrong they do, the less good I feel about it. I do eventually support people that does wrong to the world, because I buy their food in their supermarkets, but I have to buy food, so in that particular case their coercion power overcomes my ideological stands. This case is totally different, Dominion is great, but I can go play 7 Wonders for free in BSW as I used too before going into dominion.isotropic.

I do not think I'm entitled to free things, I just think pretty high about RGG and Donald and I'm sad they don't recognize this as a bad idea and maybe try to amend things (I'm not sure whether it was obviously a bad idea when they signed with Goko, but I think it should be clear now). I'm sad about this in a similar way I'm sad at Star Wars being sold to Disney. But I can probably find a way to watch Disney's Star Wars movie without supporting their evil ways (wink, wink).

[ashersky]

It's the childish anonymous insults I see being flung at RGG and Donald X. that really annoy me, but it says more about the whiny little "I'm entitled to free stuff" hippies than it says about what may yet turn out to be a poor business decision on RGG's part.

I guess I don't know that much about hippies, but I haven't ever heard that they thought they were entitled to free stuff.

I also find those insults tiring. It's hard to imagine a better creator/fanbase relationship than Donald has with the fans of Dominion. As he's said, he's there for us.

Isotopic works on tablets.  Goko doesn't.  Goko literally has given me no choice but to NOT switch and NOT give them my money.

Goko Dominion works great on my 4th-gen iPad. It's smooth as silk.

I guess my brand new iPad Mini is out of date and broken, because I can't see the whole play area, the animations are jumpy and lag, and I get a giant pop up warning that says Goko isn't going to work very well.

[Donald X.]

I don't think Donald or RGG are money-hungry beasts or anything like that. I DO think they made a bad buiseness decision. Very bad. Even if it reports them money (I have no idea on how much money they are making with the Goko license, if any).

I do not have a contract of any kind with Goko. It is popular to believe I must, but I don't.

[pinkymadigan]

I don't think Donald or RGG are money-hungry beasts or anything like that. I DO think they made a bad buiseness decision. Very bad. Even if it reports them money (I have no idea on how much money they are making with the Goko license, if any).

I do not have a contract of any kind with Goko. It is popular to believe I must, but I don't.

Eventually, you will be really sick of saying that. You must have a lot of patience, because I would be plenty sick of saying it by now.

[dondon151]

The only reason why people believe that is because Goko is such a raw deal.

[soulnet]

I don't think Donald or RGG are money-hungry beasts or anything like that. I DO think they made a bad buiseness decision. Very bad. Even if it reports them money (I have no idea on how much money they are making with the Goko license, if any).

I do not have a contract of any kind with Goko. It is popular to believe I must, but I don't.

I guess I just used to believe that because there was some mention of you testing their implementation, and I assumed it was at least partly your job because of some contract. Still, the point was clearly not on putting the finger on anyone in particular, just saying "whoever decided this should be at the very least regretting it". And also, you being the creator of the game, I guess I also assumed you had some sort of consultational power over what things other than selling boxes in diverse languages were done with the game. I know for a fact some book authors do have that with their editorial.

[Donald X.]

The only reason why people believe that is because Goko is such a raw deal.

Evidence in other arenas suggests otherwise. People routinely blame Mark Rosewater for things he didn't do, because he is "the face of Magic."

[werothegreat]

The only reason why people believe that is because Goko is such a raw deal.

Evidence in other arenas suggests otherwise. People routinely blame Mark Rosewater for things he didn't do, because he is "the face of Magic."

Does Goko inform you of how well they're doing?  Does the money paid for each expansion on Goko somehow trickle down to you?

[gryph202]

The only reason why people believe that is because Goko is such a raw deal.

Evidence in other arenas suggests otherwise. People routinely blame Mark Rosewater for things he didn't do, because he is "the face of Magic."

Success comes at quite a steep price, eh?  I like to think I take kind of a moderate stance on all this.  I won't be spending money at Goko, might play there very occasionally with whatever I can do for free, and I still intend to buy Guilds for tabletop play.  I think Dominion is a superior product, and being able to play it on Isotropic was nice while it lasted.  Thank you, Donald X.  Thank you Jay Tummelson.  Now it's on to the next big online thing for me:  INNOVATION.   

[Donald X.]

Does Goko inform you of how well they're doing?  Does the money paid for each expansion on Goko somehow trickle down to you?

My contract with RGG gives me a % of the take for any digital implementation.

Goko sometimes sends Jay a status report, and sometimes I see it. They tell me when stuff has been updated for me to test.

[dondon151]

Evidence in other arenas suggests otherwise. People routinely blame Mark Rosewater for things he didn't do, because he is "the face of Magic."

Let me clarify what I meant: there would not be as many people blaming you for being greedy, etc. if this transition to Goko weren't so fraught with dissatisfaction on the side of the users. I don't disagree with you that the easiest person to associate with Dominion is the guy who made it. (I'm also not blaming anyone in this post.)

[Donald X.]

Success comes at quite a steep price, eh?

No, I would say success has been pretty positive so far. I can always not frequent Dominion forums if I don't want to hear people complain about Goko.

[gryph202]

Success comes at quite a steep price, eh?

No, I would say success has been pretty positive so far. I can always not frequent Dominion forums if I don't want to hear people complain about Goko.

That's good.  In the end, I suppose the best you can hope for is to look back and say it was worth it.    BTW, while I have your attention, is there a projected release date for Guilds yet?

[Donald X.]

BTW, while I have your attention, is there a projected release date for Guilds yet?

I don't know, but I'm sure as soon as there's any non-secret information it will be on BGG and I will probably find out about it there myself.

[DStu]

How is not understanding you an insult? You can play on Goko without spending any money, and it doesn't take more time than playing on iso. So I don't understand you either, sorry if that insults you.

There are studies that if you say "Don't take that as X, but...", more people will take it as X as if you would just have said what you wanted...

[pst]

If isotropic had not existed, then I might not have ever tried Goko at all.

This is so true (about me)! I like a lot of board games and card games, but haven't tried playing them on BSW or whatever other servers there are where I can play them. It's just not something that seems that interesting to me, even though I don't know; maybe there is something out there I would love to do. In spite of that I actually tried out Goko a little. That I certainly hadn't done if it wasn't for Isotropic. (Probably I wouldn't know it existed.)

Earlier I've had spells of playing a lot of Scrabble on the net, and after that a lot of Mahjong. That was something I did everyday, like Dominion on Isotropic now, but that I later totally ended without really missing. I suppose it will be the same this time. And maybe some later time I will start playing some other game somewhere. As all previous times probably something that is free so I don't have to decided that This Is Something I Want To Do, but something that I just start doing and then realize is really addictive.

[Ozle]

If i had under my control a game of Dominion, and someone gave me the choice of an online version for a wad of cash, or a free version people could play.

Honestly, who wouldn't sell out in a heartbeat!

I dont particularily like the Goko for many things, but i fail to see a bad decision made by RGG

[gryph202]

If i had under my control a game of Dominion, and someone gave me the choice of an online version for a wad of cash, or a free version people could play.

Honestly, who wouldn't sell out in a heartbeat!

I dont particularily like the Goko for many things, but i fail to see a bad decision made by RGG

Time will tell.  Goko did itself no favors with that absolutely disastrous roll out last August, but who really knows what will happen going forward, right?

[Ozle]

If i had under my control a game of Dominion, and someone gave me the choice of an online version for a wad of cash, or a free version people could play.

Honestly, who wouldn't sell out in a heartbeat!

I dont particularily like the Goko for many things, but i fail to see a bad decision made by RGG

Time will tell.  Goko did itself no favors with that absolutely disastrous roll out last August, but who really knows what will happen going forward, right?

Unless you know that RGG had other decent offers for online Dominion, I fail to see how time will tell? Goko did itself no favours, but still think it was not a bad decision for RGG

It will be a limited contract with Goko, when that runs out RGG have had their money and can go elsewhere.

[soulnet]

It will be a limited contract with Goko, when that runs out RGG have had their money and can go elsewhere.

Is that right? I haven't read that anywhere so far.

In any case, I think dominion.isotropic contributes to the success of Dominion overall, which also reports money to RGG by increasing physical cards sets and also improving Dominion's name which of course resounds positively on RGG's name and therefore increases the number of games they are offered by good designer, the number of future games, the a-priori appeal of their games by us players, etc.

I'm much more likely to investigate the game if I like many other games of that publisher, in the same sense as I would do from a game author. At some point my "trust" on the publisher decisions is higher because of past experiences, so I give them some sort of credit that they chose to publish a good product when deciding a buy.

I have read somewhere (sorry I can't provide a reference now, ignore this part if that pisses you off) that RGG did not want Iso itself to be the official version because its look was really far from the original game (and Goko's implementation is or intends to be much closer), so it certainly looks like the decision is not made solely on "amount of cash we will get".

Would you sell out your life's work to someone that is going to do things you dislike with it? I know I wouldn't, provided that I have no desperate economical situation that takes priority, which I don't think its the case here. As bad as it may sound to many liberal economists, money is not the only variable in the world and not everything can be reduced to money.

[Ozle]

Donalds contract with RGG is time limited I am sure, and thus the IP of Dominion is limited. (Possibly read this in Ask Donald thread)

"Would you sell out your life's work to someone that is going to do things you dislike with it? "
You seem to be one of the people suffer the misconception that Donald sold Dominion to Goko, he didnt, he sold rights to RGG, whose decision it was to use GOKO, not Donald's at all. Who knows what decision Donald will make when the rights contract comes up.

And if I am running a Company whose Job it is to make money, and someone comes along for one of my intellectual licences and offers me a big wedge of cash. Too Right I would sell.



"I have read somewhere (sorry I can't provide a reference now, ignore this part if that pisses you off) that RGG did not want Iso itself to be the official version because its look was really far from the original game (and Goko's implementation is or intends to be much closer), so it certainly looks like the decision is not made solely on "amount of cash we will get"."
Dougz, creater of Isotropic was offered money to make the official version but turned it down.


People who tell me that the company will lose sales because Iso is free and Goko is rubbish need to actually back that up with actual figures from somewhere rather than a gut feeling of people (which includes me) that have never been privy to such a situation before. Otherwise its a 'gut feeling' and my 'gut feeling' says different.

I wonder what the sales figures were of Dominion, before and after Isotropic got popular....

[Ozle]

To try and clarify, I am trying to defend Donald/RGG here, not Goko, we all know Goko is a bit shite.