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[Morgrim7]

Do you think we need a dominion notation? I have developed a Dominion notation, I just want to know your thoughts before I post it.

[Qvist]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2551.0

I think a Dominion Notation would be pretty good. The problem is to find a balance between it being short and still readable.

[Davio]

A replayer would be even better.

[Morgrim7]

Morgrim7’s Dominion Notation
Return: \X\
Opponent: #X#
Buy: [X]
Gain: xX
Draw: +X
Discard: -X
Topdeck: *X*
Trash: /X/
Set aside: {X}
Pass: |X|
Reveal: !X!
Card’s Affect: (X)
Name Card: "X"
Card from previous turn’s affect (Duration/Possession): ^X^
Curse, Copper, Silver, Gold, Potion, Platinum, Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony are abbreviated with their first letter. (Province, Potion, Platinum are abbreviated PR, PO, PL. Curse and Copper are CU, C)
Also, does anyone have a good way to abbreviate cards that doesn’t suffer from ambiguity?

The basic gist is that you play a card, put its affect in parenthesis, and use the most basic terms for all cards. For example, when you play Island and Native Village, the term for “set aside” is used in both instances. Actions, Buys, +Cash, VP chips, cost reduction and such are implied.
Example 1: (In this turn, A JOAT is played, an estate is drawn, an estate is trashed, and a silver is bought.)
T1-turn 1 (CCCE JOAT)
JOAT(xS, -E, +E, /E/)CCC[ S ]

Example 2: (In this turn, many different things happen and many controversial and difficult cards played, such as Possession, Black Market; Tunnel is discarded, Watchtower is revealed and such)
T1 (Border Village, CCCC)
Border Village(+Scrying Pool)Scrying Pool(!+Black Market, Possession, Crossroads, Envoy, E!) Envoy(#-Tunnel#(xG)+E, E, E, Watchtower) Crossroads(+Island, CCC), Black Market(!Farming Village, Alchemist, Apprentice! CCCCCC[Apprentice]!Wathctower!(*Apprentice*), \Farming Village, Alchemist\)Island({C})Possession
^Possession^(CCCCC)
#CCCCC#xD

[heron]

I like it. Very readable, and if it were commonly used the symbols would quickly become intuitive. Of course, with logs, notation isn't all that useful.

[Morgrim7]

I like it. Very readable, and if it were commonly used the symbols would quickly become intuitive. Of course, with logs, notation isn't all that useful.

Yes, I'm thinking more along the lines of un-played games and puzzle solutions.

[heron]

Oooh, puzzle solutions! Why didn't I think of that!

[RD]

Super cool.

It needs some provision for multiple-option cards, is the only oversight I can see outside of individual cards like Stash. The current notation is good enough to figure out what you did with a Count or Steward (insignificant edge cases aside), but cards like Pawn and Squire can lead to ambiguity.

Something like (+A) for +Actions could possibly work (although you might want to abbreviate some card name with A instead). But for the sake of generality, maybe you should do something like Pawn(1,3) to represent choosing the first and third Pawn options listed on the card, and then you're covered if there's a multiple choice card with off-the-wall options. I'm sure this could be omitted if you don't need it, as with Steward etc. It could also apply to optional effects; e.g. Scavenger(1, *C*) would mean that you opted to use Scavenger's first optional power (discarding your deck) before topdecking Copper.

Oh, also I suppose you have to cover "naming" a card (for Embargo, WW etc.  The "reveal" notation seems insufficient since WW also reveals a card; although I guess you could just skip showing what card was named and just show whether WW successfully draws a second card or not). How about quotation marks: "X" ?

I don't think abbreviating card names ought to be that hard. A lot of standard abbreviations have been established in the community already, and the limited number of cards available in a game makes it much less ambiguous (puzzles being different of course). If all else fails you can define abbreviations as you go. If it takes off I'm sure it'll standardize.

[Morgrim7]

Super cool.

It needs some provision for multiple-option cards, is the only oversight I can see outside of individual cards like Stash. The current notation is good enough to figure out what you did with a Count or Steward (insignificant edge cases aside), but cards like Pawn and Squire can lead to ambiguity.

Something like (+A) for +Actions could possibly work (although you might want to abbreviate some card name with A instead). But for the sake of generality, maybe you should do something like Pawn(1,3) to represent choosing the first and third Pawn options listed on the card, and then you're covered if there's a multiple choice card with off-the-wall options. I'm sure this could be omitted if you don't need it, as with Steward etc. It could also apply to optional effects; e.g. Scavenger(1, *C*) would mean that you opted to use Scavenger's first optional power (discarding your deck) before topdecking Copper.

Oh, also I suppose you have to cover "naming" a card (for Embargo, WW etc.  The "reveal" notation seems insufficient since WW also reveals a card; although I guess you could just skip showing what card was named and just show whether WW successfully draws a second card or not). How about quotation marks: "X" ?

I don't think abbreviating card names ought to be that hard. A lot of standard abbreviations have been established in the community already, and the limited number of cards available in a game makes it much less ambiguous (puzzles being different of course). If all else fails you can define abbreviations as you go. If it takes off I'm sure it'll standardize.

Thank you for your feedback.

For Stash, the position is implied. When you draw a Stash, its implied that that is where you placed it.
For Pawn and Squire, I think we should use the +a(Actions), b(Buys), $(cash), ect, but only where there is ambiguity. In all other instances, it can be ignored.
Name = "X" added. This can also be helpful for Wishing Well, Mystique, and such.
For abbreviation, I was thinking the first four letters, and if there are two words, the first letter of each word?

[Qvist]

This is similar to mine, Morgrim.

JOAT(xS, -E, +E, /E/)CCC[ S ]
would be
JT [+2>; {E>; {E); (E-] 111   |  +2>

The problem is that yours might be more readable, but it's ambiguos. -E says that you discarded an Estate, but from your hand or from the top of your deck?
This could be problematic for example with Hermit. How would you transcribe "Play Hermit, trash a Necropolis, gain a Hermit, trash the Hermit, gain a Madman." ?
Something like that?

HERM(/NECR/,  xHERM), /HERM/, xMADM

So, the problem is now that you don't know if you trashed the Necropolis from hand or your discard pile. You might say that it doesn't really matter, but I think it does. A log or such a notation should have all infos that are needed to replay this scenario.

[SirPeebles]

A little weird that CU is curse rather than Copper, but at least both letters are capitalized 

[Morgrim7]

This is similar to mine, Morgrim.

JOAT(xS, -E, +E, /E/)CCC[ S ]
would be
JT [+2>; {E>; {E); (E-] 111   |  +2>

The problem is that yours might be more readable, but it's ambiguos. -E says that you discarded an Estate, but from your hand or from the top of your deck?
This could be problematic for example with Hermit. How would you transcribe "Play Hermit, trash a Necropolis, gain a Hermit, trash the Hermit, gain a Madman." ?
Something like that?

HERM(/NECR/,  xHERM), /HERM/, xMADM

So, the problem is now that you don't know if you trashed the Necropolis from hand or your discard pile. You might say that it doesn't really matter, but I think it does. A log or such a notation should have all infos that are needed to replay this scenario.

JOAT doesn't let you discard from hand, so its implied that its from your deck.
About the Hermit issue, i think it would be something like this: HERM(/-NECR/...
Because its from your discards? IDK. Anyway, I've never seen your notation. Can you give me the link?

A little weird that CU is curse rather than Copper, but at least both letters are capitalized 

Why would CU be Copper?

[Qvist]

Yeah, with JaoT it's implied, that's why I gave you the Hermit example.
I already gave you the link. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2551.msg39812#msg39812

The whole concept is that every action is a move from a card from one area to another.
These are the areas.
{Deck}
(Hand)
<Discard>
+Supply+
-Trash-
|Play|
#Mat#

The notation only has to show from where to where a card goes.
Playing a card is basically from hand into play, e.g. (JT| , but this is the most commonly used case, therefore I just write JT
Drawing is "from deck into hand", therefore {E) when you draw an Estate.
etc.

The good thing about this notation is IMO that you are well prepared for every possible card that might come up.
I've found another ambiguos case. Let's say I play Death Cart and I have another Death Cart in hand.
If you write /DEAT/ we wouldn't know if you didn't trash an Action card and therefore the Deatch Cart is trashed from play or if you trashed the second Death Cart from hand.
I would write it either |DC- or (DC- depending on what I've done.

[Rabid]

A little weird that CU is curse rather than Copper, but at least both letters are capitalized 

Why would CU be Copper?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper

[Morgrim7]

A little weird that CU is curse rather than Copper, but at least both letters are capitalized 

Why would CU be Copper?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper

heh…never was really good at Chemistry…although im disappointed in myself for not catching that

[Morgrim7]

Oh, and about Death Cart, if having the extra DC actually comes into play it will be assumed that you trashed it from play.

[AJD]

The whole concept is that every action is a move from a card from one area to another.
These are the areas.
{Deck}
(Hand)
<Discard>
+Supply+
-Trash-
|Play|
#Mat#

The notation only has to show from where to where a card goes.

There's still an ambiguity—does <Inn} mean you top-decked the Inn, or that you shuffled it into your deck?

[Morgrim7]

Also, if I was to gain a Curse but reveal Trader, how would that look?

[Powerman]

The whole concept is that every action is a move from a card from one area to another.
These are the areas.
{Deck}
(Hand)
<Discard>
+Supply+
-Trash-
|Play|
#Mat#

The notation only has to show from where to where a card goes.

There's still an ambiguity—does <Inn} mean you top-decked the Inn, or that you shuffled it into your deck?

Is it even possible to top-deck an Inn?

[Morgrim7]

The whole concept is that every action is a move from a card from one area to another.
These are the areas.
{Deck}
(Hand)
<Discard>
+Supply+
-Trash-
|Play|
#Mat#

The notation only has to show from where to where a card goes.

There's still an ambiguity—does <Inn} mean you top-decked the Inn, or that you shuffled it into your deck?

Is it even possible to top-deck an Inn?

Watchtower, Royal Seal.

[Powerman]

The whole concept is that every action is a move from a card from one area to another.
These are the areas.
{Deck}
(Hand)
<Discard>
+Supply+
-Trash-
|Play|
#Mat#

The notation only has to show from where to where a card goes.

There's still an ambiguity—does <Inn} mean you top-decked the Inn, or that you shuffled it into your deck?

Is it even possible to top-deck an Inn?

Watchtower, Royal Seal.

I just tried to topdeck an Inn with Watchtower on iso and it put it on top and the still shuffled the deck.

[AJD]

The whole concept is that every action is a move from a card from one area to another.
These are the areas.
{Deck}
(Hand)
<Discard>
+Supply+
-Trash-
|Play|
#Mat#

The notation only has to show from where to where a card goes.

There's still an ambiguity—does <Inn} mean you top-decked the Inn, or that you shuffled it into your deck?

Is it even possible to top-deck an Inn?

Watchtower, Royal Seal.

I just tried to topdeck an Inn with Watchtower on iso and it put it on top and the still shuffled the deck.

You're supposed to be able to shuffle the deck first and then top-deck the Inn.

[Qvist]

The whole concept is that every action is a move from a card from one area to another.
These are the areas.
{Deck}
(Hand)
<Discard>
+Supply+
-Trash-
|Play|
#Mat#

The notation only has to show from where to where a card goes.

There's still an ambiguity—does <Inn} mean you top-decked the Inn, or that you shuffled it into your deck?

There are more symbols. & means shuffling and ° revealing.
First it would be +IN} because you gain the card from the supply.
So topdecking would be +IN} assuming a Royal Seal is in play and shuffling in would be +IN}&
With Watchtower it would be something like +IN[°WT]}

[Qvist]

Also, if I was to gain a Curse but reveal Trader, how would that look?

Curse is X in my notation. I never tried the "instead clause" but I guess it would be
+X[°TD]+, +2>
I gain a Curse from the supply, reveal a Trader and then put it back to the supply and then gain a Silver from the supply in my discard pile.

[AJD]

The whole concept is that every action is a move from a card from one area to another.
These are the areas.
{Deck}
(Hand)
<Discard>
+Supply+
-Trash-
|Play|
#Mat#

The notation only has to show from where to where a card goes.

There's still an ambiguity—does <Inn} mean you top-decked the Inn, or that you shuffled it into your deck?

There are more symbols. & means shuffling and ° revealing.
First it would be +IN} because you gain the card from the supply.

It's only +IN} if you gain the Inn via Develop. Otherwise it's +IN> and then <IN}

So topdecking would be +IN} assuming a Royal Seal is in play and shuffling in would be +IN}&

Well so let's see. Royal Seal is in play, you buy an Inn, shuffle a Militia into your deck, and top-deck the Inn with Royal seal. So that's this?:

+IN><MI}&<In}

Does & distinguish between whether you're reshuffling your deck with Inn and reshuffling your discard because your deck is exhausted? Maybe it doesn't matter because it's unambiguous in context.

[AJD]

Also, if I was to gain a Curse but reveal Trader, how would that look?

Curse is X in my notation. I never tried the "instead clause" but I guess it would be
+X[°TD]+, +2>
I gain a Curse from the supply, reveal a Trader and then put it back to the supply and then gain a Silver from the supply in my discard pile.

Of course this isn't what happens...

[pst]

Here is what I'm suggesting for abbreviating card names. I want it to be easy to remember these so you don't have to think a lot or look things up, neither to write the notation or to interpret the notation.

For multiword names, use the first letter of each word, with these exceptions:

• Don't use FV but FaV = Farming Village; FiV = Fishing Village.
• Don't use PS but PhS = Philosopher's Stone, PiS = Pirate Ship.
• Don't use TR but ThR = Throne Room, TrR = Trade Route.
• Don't use WV but WaV = Walled Village, WoV = Worker's Village.

For the standard cards use C, E, D, P, Co for Curse, Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony
and  1, 2, 3, 5, Po for Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Potion.

For other cards use the first four letters, with the sole exception that Emba isn't used but instead Embo for Embargo, Emby for Embassy, or optionally use the whole name. Both would be "allowed", and I would use the whole name for five-letter cards, since most of these just look dumb: Feas Thie Witc Baro Scou Hare Have Whar Gole Vaul Goon Hoar Forg Oasi Cach Envo Stas

The exceptions above are the only ones needed to made unique names, so you don't have to memorize a lot. You might be tempted to use the popular TR for Throne Room, but I think it's better to have few exceptions, to avoid confusion.
Only the rules for the standard cards are more than actually needed. (What's needed is to do something about Copper/Coppersmith and Duchy/Duchess.)

The generated names are unique even disregarding case, but I suggest writing BoG of Bag of Gold etc and Cara  for Caravan etc. to make it easier to understand.

(Of course Guilds might add new abbrev collisions.)

[Qvist]

Regarding abbreviations: I use one letter/character abbreviations for basic cards that are available in every game:

1,2,3,5 for Copper, Silver, Gold and Platinum because it helps a lot in calculation the total amount in coins.
E,D,P,C fpr Estate, Duchy, Province and Colony.
X for Curse and O for Potion.

Then I use 2 letter abbreviations for Kingdom Cards. But it gets harder and harder to find intuitive one (try it with Harvest, Haven and Hovel or with Mine, Mint, Minion). So maybe 3 letter abbreviations would be better. But I would keep these uniform at a certain amount of letters because it will make it easier to read.

[pst]

Here is what I'm suggesting for abbreviating card names. ...

Because of stupidity I did my name collision tests on a file which didn't include Dark Ages, so I missed these collisions: Count/Counterfeit, Ironworks/Ironmonger, Merchant Ship/Market Square, Spice Merchant/Sir Martin/Sir Michael.

[Stealth Tomato]

Note: You have an affect/effect problem in your notation (reads "affect", should read "effect").

[Davio]

We're probably better off with Unicode.

For Estate, Duchy, Province and Colony I propose:
Ϡ, ɷ, Ж and ◙
Which reads as: Dinosaur, Bottom, Butterfly Skeleton and Heroes Logo.

[pst]

We're probably better off with Unicode.

We can do everything with I Ching hexagrams! It starts with ䷯ (HEXAGRAM FOR THE WELL) for Wishing Well, ䷍ (HEXAGRAM FOR GREAT POSSESSION) for Possession, and ䷴ (HEXAGRAM FOR DEVELOPMENT) for Develop, and the the rest of the notation follows in a similar way. It takes only a little practice to read annotations like ䷈䷑䷼䷼䷁ ䷆䷙䷚䷙䷄䷯ ䷫䷀䷶ fluently.