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Author Topic: Will You Switch to Goko?  (Read 14234 times)

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Warrior

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Will You Switch to Goko?
« on: March 07, 2013, 06:40:57 pm »
+1

I was curious to know how many of you will be making the switch to Goko after the beloved Isotropic goes down. I personally will probably not make the switch. I have played a few games on Goko and it just lacks the competetive and simple feel of Isotropic. Also Goko seems to lack experienced players and a good leaderboard system. Additionally, in the three games I played, I have already experienced disconnection and network issues. I won't be paying for the expansions as I already own them IRL and do not feel it is worth my money to purchase them again. Let me know whether or not you will be switching to Goko, or switching hobbies. Goodbye Isotropic, hello new hobby.

Warrior
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Kirian

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2013, 06:50:46 pm »
+6

I've already made the switch.  After a year and a half of criticism on my part, they've made something that finally works, and has all the cards available.  Certainly there are still minor problems... but some minor problems also exist on Isotropic.  Goko has made major strides.
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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2013, 06:59:17 pm »
+5

Holy shit.  Kirian isnt anti-Goko?
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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2013, 07:14:07 pm »
0

I was curious to know how many of you will be making the switch to Goko after the beloved Isotropic goes down. I personally will probably not make the switch. I have played a few games on Goko and it just lacks the competetive and simple feel of Isotropic. Also Goko seems to lack experienced players and a good leaderboard system. Additionally, in the three games I played, I have already experienced disconnection and network issues. I won't be paying for the expansions as I already own them IRL and do not feel it is worth my money to purchase them again. Let me know whether or not you will be switching to Goko, or switching hobbies. Goodbye Isotropic, hello new hobby.

Warrior

If no one switches over from iso, then yes, it will remain anti-competitive. The more iso players on Goko, the more competitive it becomes. But, they do need a better match-making system, and I also think the way rankings works and the leaderboard needs a bit of tweaking.
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Kirian

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2013, 07:29:46 pm »
0

Holy shit.  Kirian isnt anti-Goko?

I was pretty explicit in this thread about what Goko would need to do to get my cash.  They've taken care of all of the Ugly and some of the Bad.

I wouldn't call myself an evangelist exactly--there's a lot left to criticize--but they've produced something that works well enough.
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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2013, 07:45:49 pm »
0

Does the f.ds-active cross-section bias for, or against Goko?  I am unsure.

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2013, 08:01:04 pm »
0

I will be making the switch, but probably not until 1) it leaves beta and 2) has Guilds (because I am cheap and am hoping I can save a few dollars - there is a good chance that I will forfeit #2).
I play Dominion online with my family, who are scattered across the nation. Whatever downsides Goko has, it will be the only way to play with my family.
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greatexpectations

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2013, 08:14:10 pm »
+1

honestly, probably not. i'll probably get around to a longer comment in the "why aren't you on goko thread", but for now i think i can sum it up by borrowing from something Kirian said.

Certainly there are still minor problems... but some minor problems also exist on Isotropic.  Goko has made major strides.

this is what i see from just about everyone. "it's better." "it isn't as bad as it used to be." "they fixed X and Y." "isotropic didn't do this either." i don't think i remember a single forum member commenting that goko is actually good. goko simply does not seem to be a quality product for competitive dominion play.
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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2013, 09:47:39 pm »
+3

Yes, I will switch, because I like playing Dominion.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 10:00:35 pm »
0

There should be a "maybe" option. Maybe for me. The #1 reason that I prefer Isotropic to Goko is the quickness of playing a game. It simply takes too long to play a game on Goko, between loading the website, finding a game, loading the game, and the gameplay itself. On the fastest setting the gameplay is generally fast enough for me, but then you can't see what your opponent is doing. I'm sure the log parser extension is helpful here, but I'd rather not have to install an extension just to enjoy a game. And even then the speed is really slow for things like buying 10 Coppers with 10 Goons in play. (Unless they've fixed that since I last saw it).

All that said, Goko as a whole isn't a terrible implementation at all at this point. It's probably worth the $40 or whatever to enjoy unlimited online Dominion against people and bots. I just don't know if I'll end up spending enough time on there to make it worth it. My Isotropic play time is far less than it was a few months ago, before I hit level 40 and stopped playing for rank.
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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 10:49:23 pm »
0

Why is the poll discrete? I want to see who's switching over! I'm a "probably". Probably won't play as much, but I'll probably want to enough to part with $40ish.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 10:50:35 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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werothegreat

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 10:56:01 pm »
+1

First, it's spelled "discreet."

Re: greatexpectations: Goko is constantly fixing things.  It may take them some time to fix them, but they are working on things.  The more I play, the less I find bugs or things that make me frustrated at Goko.  Really the one thing that makes me pissy right now is not being able to bump off someone who hasn't done anything for five minutes.  But as is, I'd say Goko is ready for launch.  It wasn't in August, but I'd say it is now.
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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2013, 10:58:48 pm »
+4

First, it's spelled "discreet."
Unless my complaint is that it's not on visual analog scale... :P
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werothegreat

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2013, 11:04:30 pm »
+2

First, it's spelled "discreet."
Unless my complaint is that it's not on visual analog scale... :P

Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine - too many closeted men on Craigslist looking for "discrete" hookups.  I don't think you can have a quantum of that sort of thing.
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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2013, 11:39:26 pm »
0

It's probably worth the $40 or whatever to enjoy unlimited online Dominion against people and bots.
For those of you who are curious, I just checked the Goko store, and it is currently $45 to buy every expansion in one package.
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Piemaster

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2013, 12:50:10 am »
0

I think I'm going to take a break from online play completely.  I was starting to burn out a little anyway and iso going down seems like a good excuse to take a break and try some other games, keeping Dominion to something I will play live with my friends.  Somewhere down the road I might take another look at Goko and maybe invest some money in it, but we'll see how it goes.
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Kirian

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2013, 01:50:01 am »
+1

It's probably worth the $40 or whatever to enjoy unlimited online Dominion against people and bots.
For those of you who are curious, I just checked the Goko store, and it is currently $45 to buy every expansion in one package.

Yes, but it's $40 if you don't buy in one package.  The formula was posted somewhere... I think it's the three big expansions in Pack 1 for 210 each (rather than 230 to buy the pack), plus 140 for Pack 2, plus 110 for DA, was 460 = 2 x $20 bullshitcoin packs.

Quote from: greatexpectations
Certainly there are still minor problems... but some minor problems also exist on Isotropic.  Goko has made major strides.

this is what i see from just about everyone. "it's better." "it isn't as bad as it used to be." "they fixed X and Y." "isotropic didn't do this either." i don't think i remember a single forum member commenting that goko is actually good. goko simply does not seem to be a quality product for competitive dominion play.
[/quote]

Now this is an avenue I'd be interested in hearing more about, and hell, perhaps Goko would too.  Can we define "quality product for competitive Dominion play" in any readily-agreeable terms?

The main advantages of Iso at this time, in my opinion, are speed of play and matchmaking.  The latter didn't exist on Iso for its first year at least.  And if we didn't have Iso to compare with, no one would call Goko slow.

Out of interest, does anyone have thoughts on what other ways Iso is better?  I keep hearing complaints about the interface but my criterion is simply can it play the game, and does it follow the rules?  It meets that to 99%.
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hsiale

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2013, 03:05:10 am »
+1

Except matchmaking (and being free of course, but $40 for all cards is not a big deal) I currently see no other thing where Iso is better. I have switched to Goko completely. Currently playing mostly bots and I hope there will be matchmaking before I learn to play well enough that they are no longer interesting opponent for me.
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greatexpectations

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2013, 03:21:27 am »
+6

Now this is an avenue I'd be interested in hearing more about, and hell, perhaps Goko would too.  Can we define "quality product for competitive Dominion play" in any readily-agreeable terms?

i can think of a bunch pretty quick, and others can probably add to this.
- speed. isotropic appears to be faster in just about every aspect. matchmaking and game play stand out, but you could lump the animations and disconnect/login problems to this as well.
- cost structure. the cost for all expansions has been argued to death in other threads. personally, it sounds high for the quality of the product i am receiving, but i have some disposable income so that is not a huge issue. i think that a subscription service would be better suited for competitive play though, as it would allow anyone with an account to then have full unrestricted access to all cards.
- expansion ownership.  this builds directly off the last point. not everyone is going to have all of the expansions, so you are going to get a lopsided mix of games. we can of course start a side debate over whether fully randomized kingdoms are the way to play or not, but i think most would agree that competitive play limited to as few as 1-2 expansions isn't any better. nevermind the inherent advantages found when people can bias towards certain kingdoms, such as Obi Wan Bonogi and others biasing to Colony boards.
- interface. many have called for a more bare bones or text interface. something simpler, faster, and less distracting. it would be hard for me to picture gary kasparov honing his skills on battle chess for windows 3.0. you could arguably lump things like point/deck counters into this as well
- odds and ends. last i heard there was still no structure for determining 1P. last i heard goko planned to count disconnects differently when calculating levels. near impossibility of player organized tournaments with any consistency. colonies and shelters don't seem to be appearing appropriately, and i can only imagine what they are going to then cook up for black market.

Quote
The main advantages of Iso at this time, in my opinion, are speed of play and matchmaking.  The latter didn't exist on Iso for its first year at least.  And if we didn't have Iso to compare with, no one would call Goko slow.

of course, and the easy response to this is that iso was free so it is easier to put up with a lack of features. but it goes far beyond that. the existence of isotropic (and this community) was essentially a boatload of free market research, dos and don'ts, and design ideas. seriously. from isotropic and this community goko had free access to:
- a lowball estimate of their market size from forum member totals and isotropic users
- games played totals and lobby volumes for properly setting up their servers
- thoughts and opinions on pricing, both value and structure
- elements of isotropic that were liked and disliked, as well as oft-requested new features
- things the community desired enough to work and do on their own - point counter extensions, council room type data implementations, player pages, various achievements, modified logs, tournament structure and frequency, etc.

i am sure i could cook up a few more things but it's late so i will leave it at that. long story short, goko had free access to a host of information that loads of other startup companies would probably have to spend quite a bit of time and money on. they really had a chance to absolutely blow us away. instead, they have been working for 7 months past when they thought it was good enough for release and what they have to show for it is a product that many feel is still inferior to isotropic. and i'd bet all my upvotes that if isotropic had dark ages and the option of card art that this imbalance wouldn't even be close.

so what i'm getting at with all of this is that i find all of these arguments comparing goko to isotropic to be nonsensical. they had the benefit of a full staff and the option to learn from the existing product and to date they have failed to take advantage of it.

Quote
Out of interest, does anyone have thoughts on what other ways Iso is better? 

price, speed, and matchmaking are the obvious ones, just as card art and Dark Ages are the easy ways Goko has the edge. i would also toss out: chat format, ease of alternate accounts, blinking tabs/audio cues for turn and interaction cues, built in point counter, veto mode option, lobby formatting, better response to disconnects, better response to timeouts, and text mode option.
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DStu

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2013, 03:39:22 am »
+1

of course, and the easy response to this is that iso was free so it is easier to put up with a lack of features. but it goes far beyond that. the existence of isotropic (and this community) was essentially a boatload of free market research, dos and don'ts, and design ideas. seriously. from isotropic and this community goko had free access to:
- a lowball estimate of their market size from forum member totals and isotropic users
- games played totals and lobby volumes for properly setting up their servers
- thoughts and opinions on pricing, both value and structure
- elements of isotropic that were liked and disliked, as well as oft-requested new features
- things the community desired enough to work and do on their own - point counter extensions, council room type data implementations, player pages, various achievements, modified logs, tournament structure and frequency, etc.

And on top of that, they would have had a community to outsource work to.  I don't mean any of us writing the whole stuff, because after all, some security related things you better do yourself,  you don't want to have something like a JS-injection in the chat, but
- Publish an (expected) format for the game logs and you would have full iso-Councilroom functionality by now for goko and more.
- Give an API for the ingame logs and the logprettier and and point counter could have been a (semi)official addon, that you might even include for small money, just like Blizzard for WoW has tons of work outsources to the Addon community, both making their game better and getting inspiration, if not code (don't know that) for their own product.
- Give an API for the bots and you would have the same for the AI.

Instead, you don't even get an answer when you ask what their goals for their bots are to decide if bots buying Curses is a bug or a feature.  Instead, the logs are still unformated text which you can only get uncompressed and untared by scraping their website.  Instead, people have to go deep into their Javascript to get the ingame logs and append them to their page, not knowing if Goko will change something and the whole thing does not work anymore...
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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2013, 05:41:49 am »
0

Yes, but not until March 15th.
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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2013, 06:40:03 am »
0

As long as it is worse than Iso, no.
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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2013, 08:04:24 am »
+1

Yes, but not until March 15th.

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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2013, 09:05:11 am »
0

I have made the switch and loving it.  Like others have said, it's still got some tweaks that would make it even better (match-making, leader board, etc.), but the product as it is today is great.  I love it.  I've found several very competitive players, and i'm sure more will come when iso goes down.
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Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2013, 10:46:07 am »
0

The game logs are published.  They have been for awhile.  The log format is simple.  I think it would be easier to make a councilroom for goko than a councilroom for iso because of the simplicity in the log format.
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