Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[theory]

I had an interesting situation with yaron today -- he had Machine Tools, and I had Rocketry.  His best move was to Machine Tools x2 every turn to threaten to claim the achievement he needed, and my best move was to use Rocketry x2 to undo his efforts before he could claim that achievement.

This could have gone on for quite a while.  But eventually he broke the stalemate and ended up winning anyway.  Anyone else encounter this kind of situation?

[Axxle]

rocketry innovation is a terrible term to search for.  What do the two cards do again?  I think Machine Tools lets you score 2 cards and Rocketry lets you return two of their scored cards?  Doesn't seem like yaron's best move was to do that since he has a zero percent chance of winning while you have rocketry out.

[popsofctown]

Rocketry, 3 clocks, return a card from any score pile for every two clocks on your board.
Machine Tools, three factories, Score a card of value equal to the highest two cards in your score pile. 
yaron scores two threes, threatening to achieve the next age.  Theory returns two threes, removing the threat.
Theory has to rocketry twice to prevent the achieving.  I'm guessing Theory had better alternative dogmas then yaron did?  Otherwise Yaron could Machine tools once then do something else, and then Theory can rocketry once and do something else.  Or if yaron just deems that he is more likely to lose the game than win it, then he would prefer the stalemate to a break.  And we can presume Theory would become more likely to lose than to win if he allowed yaron to achieve.

I don't see how you can put the burden on yaron for breaking the loop. 
Does innovation declare a draw if you have equal score and equal achievements and draw an eleven?  I can't remember that nuance.  If the game already has drawing then stalemates should just be another kind of draw I reckon.  If the designer's intention is to avoid having a draw possibility then a ko rule is easily implemented for this.

Easily implemented as in, it is well defined with no additional baggage, not easily implemented as in, I think dougz would have an easy time adding it (it would be nowhere near the top of my polite-request list)

[marco2012]

I have one game with similar case
In that case, I use Internet twice (Age 10, Clock Dogma. Draw and score a 10. Meld a 10 for every two clock on your board) and have 3-5 clock (The total number of clock variate when I do the Internet second time), and my opponent use Anatomy twice (Age 4, Leaf Demand. Opponent return a card from their score pile. Then, return the top card with the same age). The game ends when I 'control' the whole 10 piles and win the game by drawing 11.

In fact, in Theory's case, yaron have to choose alternatives because it cannot end the game. (but it is not forced to....... maybe at that case, it should be a draw)

p.s. The game is a draw if at least one players have equal score and equal achievement and draw an eleven.

[theory]

Yeah, the achievement was (I think) the last one he needed.  He had a single 8 in his score pile and needed to achieve age 4 (having already achieved 1-3 + Mon + something else).  I had Rocketry and only 3 clocks on the board.  I had no score and no way of achieving the 4 ahead of him, so attacking his score was the only way to not lose.

His alternative dogmas were pretty bad I think, since I had out-teched him.  He had no cards in hand.  So although it wasn't a true stalemate (given that he departed and still ended up winning), you can easily imagine a situation where if yaron doesn't MachineTools x2 he would certainly lose. 

[popsofctown]

Should be a draw then, imo.