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Author Topic: Knights  (Read 16536 times)

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Davio

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Re: Knights
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2013, 03:09:33 am »
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I was wondering.

Wouldn't also be interesting to talk about the interaction between Knight and the Cornucopia set ?

Knights on the board, means Fairgrounds get pretty good. With a theoretical maximum at 10 PV, but more realistically they have a decent potential to be 8 VP and at the very least very easy to be 6VP.

Knights also prevent hunting party deck from working well. at least they work very well to get the knights but you will have a hard transitioning out of them towards a more constructive engine because your hunting party will chock on them.
Menagerie on the other hand....

Already one of my favorite cards. :)
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Destierro

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Re: Knights
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2013, 09:08:10 am »
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Knights also work great with Cornucopia cards, eg Menagerie, Fairgrounds, Horn of Plenty, because they are all named differently.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Knights
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2013, 02:51:35 pm »
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Knights also prevent hunting party deck from working well. at least they work very well to get the knights but you will have a hard transitioning out of them towards a more constructive engine because your hunting party will chock on them.

I dunno about "choke on"... Having a lot of Knights, or just a lot of differently named cards, means that Hunting Party feels more like Laboratory than Hunting Party. Sure Lab isn't generally as good, but it's still not bad. It's not like Menagerie in a deck full of duplicates... you still increase your handsize with every play.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Knights
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2013, 06:04:01 pm »
+2

Knights also prevent hunting party deck from working well. at least they work very well to get the knights but you will have a hard transitioning out of them towards a more constructive engine because your hunting party will chock on them.

I dunno about "choke on"... Having a lot of Knights, or just a lot of differently named cards, means that Hunting Party feels more like Laboratory than Hunting Party. Sure Lab isn't generally as good, but it's still not bad. It's not like Menagerie in a deck full of duplicates... you still increase your handsize with every play.

Right, but who would spend $5 on a Lab?
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RTT

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Re: Knights
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2013, 06:16:00 am »
+5

Quote
Right, but who would spend $5 on a Lab?

Its defenitly overpriced then. I mean its just a moat with an +action in excange for the reaction part. defenitly a weak 3$ if not 2$
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DrFlux

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Re: Knights
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2013, 09:50:01 pm »
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A deck full of Rats is pretty safe against Knights too.

Yeah well, you can also buy out the Curses to defend against Possession...

Both of these comments are simplistic. Rats really ARE good against knights, ESPECIALLY in the absence of other good trashing. You don't need or want ALL rats obv, but a knight hitting a rat, which "was" an estate or copper, and also allowing them to draw a card, is huge.

Also, making your deck bad against a possession player is a real thing. Obviously it depends on either being ahead, or having a lot of possessions in your deck. In most cases you'd probably buy VP instead, but maybe if you are trying to three pile, buying curses might be a good call...

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achmed_sender

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Re: Knights
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2013, 03:38:16 pm »
+1

Knights are usually good cards and can totally destroy the opponents deck when you can play many of them, but there are lots of counters

-Mini Decks like Golden Deck are awesome (just beware of Sir Michael, it's best if you can trash it with another knight or buy it on your own). In general, VP tokens are nice against Knights

-Hamlet-Poor House (little Deck sizes and cheap cards, plus provinces you cant trash)

-Potion-based Strategies (SP-decks, maybe uni, philosopher stone, golem)  vineyard not so much since you can destroy a huge amount of the action cards, if they dont cost 1-2$, possesion and familiar obviously don't counter knights too

-Reactions like moat or secret chamber deserve honorable mention when you can hold them in hand (almost) every turn, and naturally when lighthouse in the kingdom a knights-only-strategy should be ignored. market square is also worth a consideration to get gold for the trashed cards.

-I dont know if Colony can counter Knights. Platinum cant be trashed, but if you just have colonies and platinums you have to draw 3 of the per turn and your opponent will still win by building a solid engine.

-Strategies where you can ensure that your key cards are immune against knights (by holding them in and every turn or placing some VP on mats,  NV/Bridge)

-It's mostly good play if you buy sir vander against a knight player. You don't want to hurt your opponent much but you can trash him one of his valuable knights and even get a gold (which you will probably lose afterwards, but hey, it's a gold for free :)

-Benefit-when-trashed cards are nice but dont totally counter knights most of the time. Fortress is one of the best in that categories. You can build up an engine of fortress+draw+X and overbuying the fortresses a bit, to make your opponentmore likely to hit them with the knights.

-Gainers like IW are not totally counters, but they prevent you from being destroyed. They give you middle-range cards ($3-$4) which don't hurt that hard if you have to trash them (already mentioned, here in general as "Silver floods")
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Pikanto

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Re: Knights
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2013, 06:47:21 am »
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If you throne or KC a knight, and the first attack trashes a knight from your opponent, you don't attack again since yours is in the trash too, right ?
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Gveoniz

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Re: Knights
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2013, 06:51:16 am »
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If you throne or KC a knight, and the first attack trashes a knight from your opponent, you don't attack again since yours is in the trash too, right ?
You still get the benefit and attack(everything on the card).

Davio

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Re: Knights
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2013, 07:12:26 am »
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Yeah, kind of like how a Throne Roomed Feast gets you two cards.
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RobinHoodjr

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Re: Knights
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2021, 01:14:05 pm »
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Knights slow the game down dramatically. Therefore, I propose, in v2 of Knights, they instead trash one of two revealed Action cards. In this way, they mirror Bandit, Pirate, Noble Brigand, etc. However, since Knights abide by a code of honor, they do not trash or steal treasure like those in the thief class. Most Attack type cards are Actions, Knights primarily are there to neutralize Attack cards. Though the defending player, for example, may choose to trash a Market to retain their Urchin; that street Urchin must have turned over some tables during his escape...  on the other hand, the Knights have no qualms trashing your Market - - they were trying to turn up an Urchin who had been known to hang around that neighborhood.

Additionally, most of the "when trash" (except Feodum) are Action type cards. This invites more such interaction. Also it would give more advantage to Feodum, letting you keep your silvers; the Knights are no robber. Also they no longer trash victory cards - - they uphold the laws of the land, they are not revolutionaries.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 01:32:55 pm by RobinHoodjr »
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Titandrake

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Re: Knights
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2021, 02:08:16 pm »
+2

Knights don't really need a nerf. They slow the game down but the same is true of pretty much every attack in the game, and I think the average Curser is more of a bother than Knights are, assuming you pick up Knights as defense.

From a flavor perspective I'm pretty sure Knights are down to take whatever - it depends how idealistic you want your medieval flavor to be.
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segura

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Re: Knights
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2021, 03:48:32 pm »
+2

Knights work because they force you to mirror which leads to Knights killing themselves off which leads to an edge to whoever retains some Knights.
This bootstrapping thingy is a beautiful mechanic and it makes Knights work far better than Saboteur or Rogue.

Knights would be utterly boring and most likely also be too weak if you could simply defend against them via money decks.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 03:49:49 pm by segura »
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