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[SirPeebles]

I realized he had already posted here a second time and had trouble salvaging the joke.

How much did the joke cost when he Salvaged it?

Two potions, so he got nothing

[wuthefwasthat]

Challenge: In a solitaire game of Dominion with perfect shuffle luck, empty the Supply by the end of Turn 4. Outpost and Possession turns count towards the turn limit.

Hard Modes:
1. Also gain all the Colonies and Platinums.
2. Also score over 500 points.
3. Solve this puzzle as well by scoring over 50 points with a single buy.
4. Do all of the above at once.


 

Oh, man.  This is back!  This place is boring without you  

Hmm... 900 points with only one buy.  I'm guessing you'll be assuming an infinite silver pile?

I'm too busy these days to try anything this time around, but I'm looking forward to the solution!  Looks like there will be some new ideas!  Perhaps I will try to take some time to contribute after you reveal.  Also, I suspect 1000 points is possible.

[Celestial Chameleon]

Oh, man.  This is back!  This place is boring without you  

Hmm... 900 points with only one buy.  I'm guessing you'll be assuming an infinite silver pile?

I'm too busy these days to try anything this time around, but I'm looking forward to the solution!  Looks like there will be some new ideas!  Perhaps I will try to take some time to contribute after you reveal.  Also, I suspect 1000 points is possible.

I was wondering if you'd show up again.

To clarify: getting over 50 points in one buy means that one of my buys increases my score by over 50, not that I only use a single buy in the solution. In fact I use rather more than that (around 100 if you include Black Market buys).

And yes, my current solution does score well over 1000 points. I'll probably post it at the weekend once I've finished tidying it up.

[GendoIkari]

I'm guessing you'll be assuming an infinite silver pile?

An infinite silver pile would make the "Empty the supply" part of the challenge slightly harder.

I think Celestial Chameleon would need 6 turns to do it.

[Davio]

Question for CC: How do you actually go about solving a puzzle like this? pen and paper, some computer sim, real cards?

[Kirian]

Question for CC: How do you actually go about solving a puzzle like this? pen and paper, some computer sim, real cards?

Magic.  Obviously.

[Davio]

Well, a puzzle of this sort most likely consists of two steps.

1. Think of an inception-like system with either linear or exponential gaining and buying possibilities, most likely involving nested King's Court, Throne Room and/or Procession chains
2. Work out the nested spaghetti mess and check if it all works out

Step 2 seems just as hard as step 1.

[wuthefwasthat]

Question for CC: How do you actually go about solving a puzzle like this? pen and paper, some computer sim, real cards?

Over the summer, while I was doing a lot of Dominion puzzles, I imagined having simple software to help work out puzzles (those Procession chains...).  People could potentially share log files easily to prove their solutions, and collaborate/tweak easily.  There are huge classes of puzzles that would be more interesting with this sort of framework, e.g. "Empty provinces as fast you can with this Kingdom", "Gain as many points as you can on this turn, with this hand and deck".  You could also make up new cards and play around with them. 

But the UI seemed pretty tricky to get right, I knew it'd take a while, and I suspect interest levels are low (outside of CC), so it was more just an idea than anything I seriously considered creating.   If I'm wrong and people would indeed like such a thing, and any CS-y people are interested in making it, we could start a separate thread to discuss (I have some ideas for how the design should go).  I may be willing to help out with such a project in my spare time.  If this happens, we can collectively destroy the tricky Guilds puzzles that I'm sure some of us will think up 

I was wondering if you'd show up again.

Your heavenly presence beckons (and your camouflage is not sufficient to evade my attention)

To clarify: getting over 50 points in one buy means that one of my buys increases my score by over 50, not that I only use a single buy in the solution. In fact I use rather more than that (around 100 if you include Black Market buys).

Ah, I see.  Seems very possible now.   But only for the celestial.   

And yes, my current solution does score well over 1000 points. I'll probably post it at the weekend once I've finished tidying it up.

Very excited and curious.  You should share with me in advance, so I don't need to wait, haha.

I predict:

• Same kingdom as before, but with Black Market additionally. 
• Solution is the same up to the playing of Peddler on turn 4. 

If they both are true, it will be a crazy optimization feat. 
But if either is not true, I'm more excited.  The most natural thing to try to do would be to fit in a King's Court instead of Catacombs or Peddler, but I remember this being quite hard

[Celestial Chameleon]

I predict:

• Same kingdom as before, but with Black Market additionally. 
• Solution is the same up to the playing of Peddler on turn 4. 

Well, you got one of those right.

Behold:

Kingdom: Hamlet (Hm), Black Market (Bm), Watchtower (Wt), Fortress (Ft), Nomad Camp (Nc),
Procession (Pr), Catacombs (Ct), Haggler (Hg), Goons (Gn), King's Court (Kc) and Peddler (Pd)
Other Cards: Copper (C), Hovel (H), Necropolis (N), Overgrown Estate (O), Ruined Market (Rm)
Black Market Deck: Young Witch, Cultist, Squire, Woodcutter, Bridge, Gardens, Quarry, Sir Martin, Worker's Village, City, Council Room,
Counting House, Festival, Margrave, Market, Fairgrounds, Hunting Grounds, Bank, Expand, Forge, Vineyard, Scrying Pool

Turn 1: Draw CCCCH
Play 4C
Buy Nc1

Turn 2: Draw NcCCCO
Play Nc and 3C
Buy Wt1 and Hm1

Turn 3: Draw N,(reshuffle),NcHmWtC
Play N and Nc
Play Hm, draw O, discard C,O
Play Wt, draw 6C
Play 6C
Buy Pr1,Pr2,Pd1

Turn 4: Draw H,(reshuffle),PrPrNcWt
Play Pr1-Pr2:
- Play Nc1 twice, Nc1-->Ct1, reveal Wt, trash Ct1, gain Ft1, trash Ft1, put Ft1 in hand
- Play Ft1 twice, draw Pd1,Hm1, Ft1-->Ct2, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct2, gain Pr3 on deck
- Pr2-->Ct3, reveal Wt, trash Ct3, gain Pr4 on deck
Play Hm1, draw Pr4, discard H for +1 Buy
Play Pd1, draw Pr3
Play Pr3-Pr4:
- Play Ft1 twice, draw 2C, Ft1-->Ct4, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct4, gain Pr5 on deck
- Play Ft1 twice, draw Pr5,C, Ft1-->Ct5, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct5, gain Pr6 on deck
- Pr4-->Ct6, reveal Wt, trash Ct6, gain Pr7 on deck
Play Pr5-Ft1, draw Pr6,Pr7, Ft1-->Ct7, reveal Wt, trash Ct7, gain Pr8 on deck
Play Pr6-Pr7:
- Play Ft1 twice, draw Pr8,C, Ft1-->Ct8, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct8, gain Pr9 on deck
- Play Pr8 twice:
  - Play Ft1 twice, draw Pr9,C, Ft1-->Ct9, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct9, gain Pr10 on deck
  - Play Pr9 twice:
    - Play Ft1 twice, draw Pr10,C, Ft1-->Ct10, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct10, gain Bm1 on deck
    - Play Pr10 twice:
      - Play Ft1 twice, draw Bm1,C, Ft1-->Hg1, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, put Hg1 on deck
      - Play Ft1 twice, draw Hg1,N, Ft1-->Hg2, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, put Hg2 on deck
      - Pr10-->Hg3, reveal Wt, put Hg3 on deck
    - Pr9-->Hg4, reveal Wt, put Hg4 on deck
  - Pr8-->Hg5, reveal Wt, put Hg5 on deck
- Pr7-->Hg6, reveal Wt, put Hg6 on deck
Play Ft1, draw Hg6
Play N, Hg1 and Hg6 (have 33 Actions, $9 and 4 Buys)

Play Bm1, play 7C, buy City, gain Bm2 and Wt2, reveal Wt, put all on deck
Play Wt1, draw City,Bm2,Wt2,Hg3-5
Play Hg3-5
Play Bm2, buy Hunting Grounds, gain Hg7-10 and Bm3
Play City, draw Hg7-8
Play Hg7-8
Play Wt2, draw Hg9-10, Bm3, Hunting Grounds, Hg2, O
Play Hg2 and Hg9-10 (have 22 Actions, $26 and 5 Buys)

Play Bm3, buy Quarry, gain Bm4-6, Wt3-7 and Hm2-3
Play Hunting Grounds, reshuffle, draw Bm4,Wt3,Wt4,Hm2
Play Hm2, draw H, discard O and H
Play Bm4, buy Expand, gain Gn1-10, reveal Wt, put all Goons on deck
Play Wt3, draw Gn1-5
Play Gn1-5
Play Wt4, draw Gn6-10 and Wt5
Play Gn6-10 (have 8 Actions, $39 and 16 Buys; all subsequent buys give 10 VP)

Play Wt5, draw Bm5-6,Wt6-7,Hm3 and Quarry
Play Hm3, reshuffle, draw H, discard H for +1 Buy
Play Bm5, play Quarry, buy Fairgrounds, gain Kc1-10, reveal Wt, put all King's Courts on deck
Play Wt6, draw Kc1,Kc2,Kc3,Kc4
Play Kc1-Kc2:
- Play Kc3 thrice:
  - Play Kc4 thrice:
    - Play Bm6 thrice, buy Council Room, Worker's Village and Gardens, gain 30 cards (Bm7-9,Wt8-10,Hm4-10, 10 Silvers and 7 Coppers)
      - Reveal Wt, put Bm7-9, Wt8 and Council Room on deck
    - Play Wt7 thrice, draw Bm7-9, Wt8, Council Room and Kc5
    - Play Bm7 thrice, buy Festival, Counting House and Bank, gain 30 cards (Pd2-10,Nc2-10,Rm1-10, Silver and Copper)
      - Reveal Wt, put Counting House and Bm10 on deck (Nc2-10 automatically top-deck)
  - Play Bm8 thrice, buy Bridge, Sir Martin and Squire, gain 20 cards (10 Coppers and 10 Curses)
    - Reveal Wt, put Bridge, Sir Martin and Squire on deck, and trash 10 Curses
  - Play Bm9 thrice, buy Margrave, Market and Forge, gain 30 cards (Bm10,Ft2-10, 8 Silvers, 2 Potions and 10 Coppers)
    - Reveal Wt, put Margrave, Market, Bm10 and 2 Potions on deck
- Play Council Room thrice, draw 12 cards (Margrave, Market, Bm10, 2 Potions, Sir Martin, Squire, Bridge, Nc2-5)
(have 4 Actions, $26, 20 Buys and 130 VP)

- Play Kc5 thrice:
  - Play Bm10 thrice, play 2 Potions, buy Vineyard, Scrying Pool and Woodcutter, gain 25 cards (25 Coppers)
    - Reveal Wt, put Scrying Pool on deck
  - Play Margrave thrice, draw 9 cards (Scrying Pool, Nc6-10, Counting House and Kc6-7)
  - Play Kc6 thrice:
    - Play Market thrice, draw 3 cards (Kc8-10)
    - Play Sir Martin thrice
    - Play Kc7 thrice:
      - Play Squire thrice for +6 Buys
      - Play Bridge thrice
      - Play Kc8 thrice:
        - Play Nc2 thrice
        - Play Nc3 thrice
        - Play Kc9 thrice:
          - Play Nc4 thrice
          - Play Nc5 thrice
          - Play Kc10 thrice:
            - Play Nc6 thrice
            - Play Nc7 thrice
            - Play Nc8 thrice
(have 7 Actions, $79, 62 Buys and 160 VP)

Play Counting House, draw 53 Coppers
Play Scrying Pool, discard O, draw Expand,(reshuffle),Hm4-10,Wt9-10,Ft2-10,Pd2-10,Rm1-10, Forge, Festival, Woodcutter and Worker's Village
Play Ft2-10, draw 9 Silvers
Play Pd2-10, draw 9 Silvers
Play Hm4-10, draw Silver, Fairgrounds, Vineyard, Gardens, Bank,(reshuffle) and 2 Coppers, discard 3 Watchtowers, Forge and 10 Copper
(have 22 Actions, $89, 69 Buys and 160 VP)

Play Nc9-10
Play Rm1-10
Play Festival
Play Woodcutter
Play Worker's Village, draw Copper
Play 19 Silvers and 46 Coppers
Play Bank (worth $76)

Have $257 and 84 Buys
Buy 21 Silvers, 14 Potions, 17 Golds, 8 Estates, 8 Duchies, 8 Provinces (gaining 13 Golds) and 8 Colonies (gaining 12 Platinums), gaining 840 VP

Have 8 Colonies, 8 Provinces, 8 Duchies, 8 Estates, Fairgrounds (worth 16 VP), Gardens (worth 31 VP), Vineyard (worth 39 VP) and 1000 VP tokens
Total score: 1246 VP

Deck: (316 cards total, 119 Actions, 43 distinct cards)
10 Hamlets, 10 Black Markets, 10 Watchtowers, 10 Fortresses, 9 Nomad Camps, 4 Processions, 10 Hagglers, 10 Goons, 10 King's Courts, 10 Peddlers
Squire, Woodcutter, Bridge, Gardens, Quarry, Sir Martin, Worker's Village, City, Council Room, Counting House, Festival, Margrave, Market,

Fairgrounds, Hunting Grounds, Bank, Expand, Forge, Vineyard, Scrying Pool
60 Coppers, 40 Silvers, 16 Potions, 30 Golds, 12 Platinums
8 Estates, 8 Duchies, 8 Provinces, 8 Colonies
Hovel, Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, 10 Ruined Markets

Vineyard buy increased score by 52 (39 from Vineyard, 10 from Goons, 1 from Gardens and 2 from Fairgrounds)

[Dsell]

No words.

[jonts26]

My God, it's full of stars!

[Kirian]

They should have sent a poet.

[jonts26]

They should have sent a poet.

Awww man. That's a better quote than mine.

[Kirian]

They should have sent a poet.

Awww man. That's a better quote than mine.

Nah, just a less-used one.  One of those movies is a lot older and gained much better acclaim from critics.  It was a hell of a lot weirder though.

[Axxle]

I saw the post, my heart started beating faster, I started breathing heavier, I think I'm in love!

edit: and I got the first two turns right! Woo!

[Robz888]

This is a "and let there be light!" moment.

[Morgrim7]

Someone make a Rebecca Black meme.

[SirPeebles]

Probably my favorite part of the whole thing is that CC bothers to time the Vineyard purchase to coincide with Gardens and Fairgrounds appreciating.

[Kirian]

I think my favorite part is the Procession-Catacombs-Watchtower[-Fortress] interaction.  Here we have an example of a card being included for the sole purpose of allowing a card that normally forces a $1 upgrade to gain a card of lower value.  It's genius.

[Avalanchian]

Why, man, he doth bestride the narrow world
Like a Colossus, and we petty men
Walk under his huge legs and peep about
To find ourselves dishonorable graves.

Am I the only one he feels a bit like that reading the solution?

[heron]

I mostly feel like, man, CC could be pulling a huge hoax and the solution doesn't work and I wouldn't have a clue.

[GendoIkari]

I mostly feel like, man, CC could be pulling a huge hoax and the solution doesn't work and I wouldn't have a clue.

The ultimate respect-troll!

Actually my wife and I plan to sit down with all the real cards and go through the solution step-by-step soon, just to watch the magic unfold.

[Avalanchian]

I mostly feel like, man, CC could be pulling a huge hoax and the solution doesn't work and I wouldn't have a clue.

The ultimate respect-troll!

Actually my wife and I plan to sit down with all the real cards and go through the solution step-by-step soon, just to watch the magic unfold.

I desperately want to do this, but do not own almost all the necessary cards. 

[GendoIkari]

What order was the Black Market deck in to start with? And I'm guessing that it actually matters what order you put the unbought cards back on the bottom, but I should be able to work that out for myself.

[soulnet]

What order was the Black Market deck in to start with? And I'm guessing that it actually matters what order you put the unbought cards back on the bottom, but I should be able to work that out for myself.

As long as all cards bought are different there is always at least one (actually, at least 3 and I suspect way more than that) possible initial order and order in which to put unbought cards each time that makes it happen