Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Celestial Chameleon]

Challenge: In a solitaire game of Dominion with perfect shuffle luck, empty the Supply by the end of Turn 4. Outpost and Possession turns count towards the turn limit.

Hard Modes:
1. Also gain all the Colonies and Platinums.
2. Also score over 500 points.
3. Solve this puzzle as well by scoring over 50 points with a single buy.
4. Do all of the above at once.


 

[Avalanchian]

Already +1'd so I can +2 the solution. It's always a pleasure to see more posts from CC.

[GendoIkari]

Hey, welcome back! You really need to be around here more... While thinking about the most points with 1 buy by turn 4, I was thinking that there was probably a very large answer because you could probably buy out the entire supply and then have a single buy gain you a Fairgrounds and Gardens, each worth a huge number of points while powering up other Fairgrounds and Gardens.

The only thing I'm unclear on is that in your last post, you seemed limited on the most points by turn 4 to what your answer had been; does this thread mean that you have also improved upon that post?

[Celestial Chameleon]

The only thing I'm unclear on is that in your last post, you seemed limited on the most points by turn 4 to what your answer had been; does this thread mean that you have also improved upon that post?

I'm currently fine-tuning my solution to see how many points I can get. I believe my current solution gives around 900 points, but I put 500 in the challenge in case I had made a mistake somewhere.

[GendoIkari]

The only thing I'm unclear on is that in your last post, you seemed limited on the most points by turn 4 to what your answer had been; does this thread mean that you have also improved upon that post?

I'm currently fine-tuning my solution to see how many points I can get. I believe my current solution gives around 900 points, but I put 500 in the challenge in case I had made a mistake somewhere.

Cool. Just one more question... Are you a supercomputer sent from the future?

[Avalanchian]

Cool. Just one more question... Are you a supercomputer sent from the future?

I've decided that I like the mystery of just not knowing =P

[Awaclus]

So, this is the legendary CC who people have been talking about. I'm excited to hear the solution, figuring one out is beyond my power.

[Max Boomtown]

This what I call a maxed out Boomtown!

[Axxle]

I think I figured it out (a modified version of the one he used before in this post):

Kingdom: Hamlet (Hm), Watchtower (Wt), Develop (Dv) Remake (Re), Fortress (Ft), Nomad Camp (Nc), Procession (Pr), Catacombs (Ct), Band of Misfits (Bd), Goons (Gn), Peddler (Pd) Nobles (No)
Base Cards: Copper (C), Duchy (D), Hovel (H), Necropolis (N), Overgrown Estate (O)

Turn 1: Draw CCCCH
Play 4C
Buy Nc1

Turn 2: Draw NcCCCO
Play Nc and 3C
Buy Wt1, Hm1

Turn 3: Draw N,NcHmWtH
Play N and Nc
Play Hm, draw O, discard HO
Play Wt, draw 6C
Play 6C
Buy Pr1,Pr2

Turn 4: Draw C,PrPrNcWt
Play Pr1-Pr2:
- Play Nc1 twice:
-- Press hidden button under the table triggering an explosion outside. 
--- While everyone's distracted scoop entire kingdom into your deck
- Profit

[Ozle]

Already +1'd so I can +2 the solution. It's always a pleasure to see more posts from CC.

I do like the fact he is +19, before he has even posted a solution!
Would be an epic Respect farm troll if it was that!

[jomini]

I don't have time to play this out today, but I think the start may go something like this:


T1: Open Nomad Camp
T2: Buy Hamlet/Watchtower
T3: Necropolis -> Hamlet (discard OgeHovel) -> Nc -> Wt (draw to 6 copper); buy Procession/Ironworks or Develop/Catacombs
T4: Hand: CNecroPrssnIwWt: Necro -> Prssn -> Iw (gain Prssn x2, Catacombs?, all to top deck) -> Wt (draw the new cards + NcHamlet) -> Prssn -> Prssn -> Nc (gain Catacombs?) -> Catacombs (discard COgeHov, draw Cx5Ctcmb, gain Border Village/Iw/Prssn) ->

The basic idea is that you use a 4/5 opening with Nomad camp, Hamlet, and Watchtower to get 8 coin and a lot of gaining potential. Both Dev/Ctcmb and Prssn/Iw give you three cards for two and let you climb in value. Border village, likewise gives you an extra card and lets you Prssn or Dev it to Kc. Ctcmb is also nice as you can use it to discard cards & draw 3 new cards. I don't yet see where I can proceed to play Prssn -> Kc -> Bridge -> Iw, but I assume that's coming. From there it should be possible to empty the supply. Maximizing points will require gaining & playing 10 Goons, and then playing 10 previously gained Black Markets; each Bm play will trigger Hagglers (if needed) to empty out the supply. Final score will be determined by how many +buys you can manage to play, costs will likely be reduced some more by more multiple plays of Bridge and then everything except maybe the colonies and Plats should be free.

[Robz888]

Let me just give CC my obligatory +1 and pop out. Too smart for me!

[Beyond Awesome]

My head is just exploding thinking that any such thing is possible.

[michaeljb]

Already +1'd so I can +2 the solution. It's always a pleasure to see more posts from CC.

I do like the fact he is +19, before he has even posted a solution!
Would be an epic Respect farm troll if it was that!

I don't think anyone but CC could get this much respect (+34 at the moment) pre-solution, because CC has established one thing that some respect farming troll has not...CC delivers.

[Morgrim7]

Oh God.

[Kirian]

I remember when he did this in five turns, and I said it was time to pack it up, Dominion had been solved.

Obviously, I was wrong.

Presumably, for CC's next trick, it'll be three turns.

[sudgy]

I remember when he did this in five turns, and I said it was time to pack it up, Dominion had been solved.

Obviously, I was wrong.

Presumably, for CC's next trick, it'll be three turns.

Could you give me a link to that?  I couldn't find it with the forum search...

[enfynet]

I remember when he did this in five turns, and I said it was time to pack it up, Dominion had been solved.

Obviously, I was wrong.

Presumably, for CC's next trick, it'll be three turns.

Could you give me a link to that?  I couldn't find it with the forum search...

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3740.msg85631#msg85631

And he won't do 3 turns until Guilds.

[Avalanchian]

[He] won't do 3 turns until Guilds.

Jeez, what a slacker

[NoMoreFun]

The interesting thing is that with only 4 turns, this may not actually be that hard to replicate in a real game or on Goko. I'm not sure how the solution's going to play out but I'd imagine it would be more based on topdecking than triggering many perfect reshuffles. When it's revealed, I'd like to calculate the probability of being able to actually do it.

Edit: I hope it also doesn't have any tricks like Self Tributing or Self Smuggling so we could then see it be done against an opponent.

[heron]

I can see the article now: COMBO!!!!!! Nomad Camp/Hamlet/Watchtower/Procession/Ironworks/Shelters/etc.
Hmm, we could have a game of "guess the kingdom"

My guess: The above, + Haggler, develop, band of misfits, catacombs, fortress.
Basically the most vp's kingdom, swapping peddler and goons for haggler and ironworks.

[NoMoreFun]

I'd imagine Squire->Goons or Squire->Scrying Pool could play a role. Graverobber potentially as well.

[Destierro]

Ok. So there are some piles the board needs. Haggler, Black Market (Has Young Witch in it, also has a looter), Watchtower, Nomad Camp. Most likely Procession, perhaps Kings Court. There has to be a gainer of some kind, Ironworks or Armory work best, Armory is moot because of Watchtower. Bridge is key, so add that. Catacombs has proven vital in past CC solutions. The hard mode includes a 900 point cap, so Goons as well.

So, so far we have Haggler, Black Market, Watchtower, Nomad Camp, Procession, Ironworks, Catacombs, Bridge, Goons.

That leaves 2 kingdom piles. Lacking above we have KC, some sort of + action(except IW), and that last brilliant card that pulls the solution together.

CC, when are you posting a solution? I can't wait to see what you've come up with

[GendoIkari]

Ok. So there are some piles the board needs. Haggler, Black Market (Has Young Witch in it, also has a looter), Watchtower, Nomad Camp. Most likely Procession, perhaps Kings Court. There has to be a gainer of some kind, Ironworks or Armory work best, Armory is moot because of Watchtower. Bridge is key, so add that. Catacombs has proven vital in past CC solutions. The hard mode includes a 900 point cap, so Goons as well.

So, so far we have Haggler, Black Market, Watchtower, Nomad Camp, Procession, Ironworks, Catacombs, Bridge, Goons.

That leaves 2 kingdom piles. Lacking above we have KC, some sort of + action(except IW), and that last brilliant card that pulls the solution together.

CC, when are you posting a solution? I can't wait to see what you've come up with

Why would you put a Looter in? That would just add another 10 cards you need to worry about gaining; without any real benefit to the Kingdom. Though I do see how gaining then trashing a Cultist with Watchtower could help.

[Davio]

Scrying Pool?

[GendoIkari]

Scrying Pool?

I don't see that... of course you would use Squire to gain it, avoiding the Potion step, but still... it adds Potions to the supply, meaning more cards you have to gain, plus I just don't see how it helps that much. I think that all the action cards you gain can be drawn into hand easily enough with Watchtower for top-decking, plus Council Room or Cultist-trashing for draw.

[Destierro]

Ok. So there are some piles the board needs. Haggler, Black Market (Has Young Witch in it, also has a looter), Watchtower, Nomad Camp. Most likely Procession, perhaps Kings Court. There has to be a gainer of some kind, Ironworks or Armory work best, Armory is moot because of Watchtower. Bridge is key, so add that. Catacombs has proven vital in past CC solutions. The hard mode includes a 900 point cap, so Goons as well.

So, so far we have Haggler, Black Market, Watchtower, Nomad Camp, Procession, Ironworks, Catacombs, Bridge, Goons.

That leaves 2 kingdom piles. Lacking above we have KC, some sort of + action(except IW), and that last brilliant card that pulls the solution together.

CC, when are you posting a solution? I can't wait to see what you've come up with

Why would you put a Looter in? That would just add another 10 cards you need to worry about gaining; without any real benefit to the Kingdom. Though I do see how gaining then trashing a Cultist with Watchtower could help.

The looter is for the +buy from ruined market, and with 10 hagglers it isn't hard to empty that pile. In his 5 turn solution he buys 8 ruined markets.

[GendoIkari]

Ok. So there are some piles the board needs. Haggler, Black Market (Has Young Witch in it, also has a looter), Watchtower, Nomad Camp. Most likely Procession, perhaps Kings Court. There has to be a gainer of some kind, Ironworks or Armory work best, Armory is moot because of Watchtower. Bridge is key, so add that. Catacombs has proven vital in past CC solutions. The hard mode includes a 900 point cap, so Goons as well.

So, so far we have Haggler, Black Market, Watchtower, Nomad Camp, Procession, Ironworks, Catacombs, Bridge, Goons.

That leaves 2 kingdom piles. Lacking above we have KC, some sort of + action(except IW), and that last brilliant card that pulls the solution together.

CC, when are you posting a solution? I can't wait to see what you've come up with

Why would you put a Looter in? That would just add another 10 cards you need to worry about gaining; without any real benefit to the Kingdom. Though I do see how gaining then trashing a Cultist with Watchtower could help.

The looter is for the +buy from ruined market, and with 10 hagglers it isn't hard to empty that pile. In his 5 turn solution he buys 8 ruined markets.

What are you looking at? His turn 5 solution was pre-Dark Ages. I don't see any Ruined Markets in his get lots of points by turn 4 solution either.

[Destierro]

Ok. So there are some piles the board needs. Haggler, Black Market (Has Young Witch in it, also has a looter), Watchtower, Nomad Camp. Most likely Procession, perhaps Kings Court. There has to be a gainer of some kind, Ironworks or Armory work best, Armory is moot because of Watchtower. Bridge is key, so add that. Catacombs has proven vital in past CC solutions. The hard mode includes a 900 point cap, so Goons as well.

So, so far we have Haggler, Black Market, Watchtower, Nomad Camp, Procession, Ironworks, Catacombs, Bridge, Goons.

That leaves 2 kingdom piles. Lacking above we have KC, some sort of + action(except IW), and that last brilliant card that pulls the solution together.

CC, when are you posting a solution? I can't wait to see what you've come up with

Why would you put a Looter in? That would just add another 10 cards you need to worry about gaining; without any real benefit to the Kingdom. Though I do see how gaining then trashing a Cultist with Watchtower could help.

The looter is for the +buy from ruined market, and with 10 hagglers it isn't hard to empty that pile. In his 5 turn solution he buys 8 ruined markets.

What are you looking at? His turn 5 solution was pre-Dark Ages. I don't see any Ruined Markets in his get lots of points by turn 4 solution either.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3740.msg85631#msg85631

[Asper]

Black Market (Has Young Witch in it, also has a looter)

Isn't it so you can decide which cards to have in your Black Market Pile? I guess Cultist might play a role, but i'm not sure whether he needs Young Witch, if not to gain the Bane Pile and score for that.
I guess it's something like an even more optimized version of his last Quiz, so yeah, Haggler, Goons, Cultist it is, i think. Other than that, i'm clueless.

[GendoIkari]

Hmm, we could have a game of "guess the kingdom"

Probably something like this:


Scout
Sea Hag
Explorer
Mine
Saboteur
Moat
Secret Chamber
Oasis
Ambassador
Transmute

[Powerman]

Hmm, we could have a game of "guess the kingdom"

Probably something like this:


Scout
Sea Hag
Explorer
Mine
Saboteur
Moat
Secret Chamber
Oasis
Ambassador
Transmute

Where's Pirate Ship, Thief, and Adventurer??  Surely they are more important than Oasis, Mine, or Moat.

[GendoIkari]

Hmm, we could have a game of "guess the kingdom"

Probably something like this:


Scout
Sea Hag
Explorer
Mine
Saboteur
Moat
Secret Chamber
Oasis
Ambassador
Transmute

Where's Pirate Ship, Thief, and Adventurer??  Surely they are more important than Oasis, Mine, or Moat.

Good call. Though I'd replace Adventurer with Sir Michael.

Actually, now that I think about it, I should have just gone with:


Fairgrounds
Feodum
Duke
Vineyard
Silk Road
Sir Michael
Sea Hag
Saboteur
Pirate Ship
Thief


New challenge: empty the supply with ^^that Kingdom. Take as many turns as you like!

[liopoil]

I don't think you can even get a province by turn 4 in those kingdoms...

[sudgy]

Some things that could help would be using saboteur to trash a feodum giving the last few silvers and using a sea hag to give the last curse but you can't even do both of those at once because there's no villages...

EDIT: With GendoIkari's kingdom.

[heron]

Necropolis would work, but that's still not enough to empty the supply.

[GendoIkari]

Some things that could help would be using saboteur to trash a feodum giving the last few silvers and using a sea hag to give the last curse but you can't even do both of those at once because there's no villages...

EDIT: With GendoIkari's kingdom.

But it's a solitaire game... Both of those cards will no no effect whatsoever when you play them.

[NoMoreFun]

Hmm, we could have a game of "guess the kingdom"

Probably something like this:


Scout
Sea Hag
Explorer
Mine
Saboteur
Moat
Secret Chamber
Oasis
Ambassador
Transmute

Where's Pirate Ship, Thief, and Adventurer??  Surely they are more important than Oasis, Mine, or Moat.

Good call. Though I'd replace Adventurer with Sir Michael.

Actually, now that I think about it, I should have just gone with:


Fairgrounds
Feodum
Duke
Vineyard
Silk Road
Sir Michael
Sea Hag
Saboteur
Pirate Ship
Thief


New challenge: empty the supply with ^^that Kingdom. Take as many turns as you like!

You can't just have Sir Michael. Band of Misfits would be better suited to that kingdom.

[Axxle]

But band of misfits is likely to be part of the actual solution.

[GendoIkari]

You can't just have Sir Michael. Band of Misfits would be better suited to that kingdom.

I have no idea what I was thinking.

Ok then.... Black Market instead.

The Black Market deck is empty (perfectly legal!)

[NoMoreFun]

You can't just have Sir Michael. Band of Misfits would be better suited to that kingdom.

I have no idea what I was thinking.

Ok then.... Black Market instead.

The Black Market deck is empty (perfectly legal!)

You could put Sir Michael in there.

[eHalcyon]

The number of upvotes for the first post is now twice the number of CC's total posts.

[soulnet]

For the "slowest Kingdom" I would include Gardens, Bank (because its 7 and it won't help more than Gold) and KC.

[GendoIkari]

For the "slowest Kingdom" I would include Gardens, Bank (because its 7 and it won't help more than Gold) and KC.

I can't imagine why I didn't include Gardens. My original idea was to ensure that nothing I put was something that would actually be in CC's kingdom, which would rule out KC. (I wouldn't bet on KC being in there, but it's certainly possible).

[heron]

Gardens is possibly there as well though; you've got to get your 900 points somehow!
I admit this is a bit unlikely.

[Watno]

Will we be enlightened how this works soon?

[Galzria]

Axxle, no deleting posts!

... Oh, wait...

[Axxle]

I realized he had already posted here a second time and had trouble salvaging the joke.

[Galzria]

I realized he had already posted here a second time and had trouble salvaging the joke.

I never actually saw the post - but it was updated with the 'new' tag, and had you as the latest author, so I had to figure out why Watno was the most recent post when I clicked.

[Morgrim7]

I realized he had already posted here a second time and had trouble salvaging the joke.

How much did the joke cost when he Salvaged it?

[SirPeebles]

I realized he had already posted here a second time and had trouble salvaging the joke.

How much did the joke cost when he Salvaged it?

Two potions, so he got nothing

[wuthefwasthat]

Challenge: In a solitaire game of Dominion with perfect shuffle luck, empty the Supply by the end of Turn 4. Outpost and Possession turns count towards the turn limit.

Hard Modes:
1. Also gain all the Colonies and Platinums.
2. Also score over 500 points.
3. Solve this puzzle as well by scoring over 50 points with a single buy.
4. Do all of the above at once.


 

Oh, man.  This is back!  This place is boring without you  

Hmm... 900 points with only one buy.  I'm guessing you'll be assuming an infinite silver pile?

I'm too busy these days to try anything this time around, but I'm looking forward to the solution!  Looks like there will be some new ideas!  Perhaps I will try to take some time to contribute after you reveal.  Also, I suspect 1000 points is possible.

[Celestial Chameleon]

Oh, man.  This is back!  This place is boring without you  

Hmm... 900 points with only one buy.  I'm guessing you'll be assuming an infinite silver pile?

I'm too busy these days to try anything this time around, but I'm looking forward to the solution!  Looks like there will be some new ideas!  Perhaps I will try to take some time to contribute after you reveal.  Also, I suspect 1000 points is possible.

I was wondering if you'd show up again.

To clarify: getting over 50 points in one buy means that one of my buys increases my score by over 50, not that I only use a single buy in the solution. In fact I use rather more than that (around 100 if you include Black Market buys).

And yes, my current solution does score well over 1000 points. I'll probably post it at the weekend once I've finished tidying it up.

[GendoIkari]

I'm guessing you'll be assuming an infinite silver pile?

An infinite silver pile would make the "Empty the supply" part of the challenge slightly harder.

I think Celestial Chameleon would need 6 turns to do it.

[Davio]

Question for CC: How do you actually go about solving a puzzle like this? pen and paper, some computer sim, real cards?

[Kirian]

Question for CC: How do you actually go about solving a puzzle like this? pen and paper, some computer sim, real cards?

Magic.  Obviously.

[Davio]

Well, a puzzle of this sort most likely consists of two steps.

1. Think of an inception-like system with either linear or exponential gaining and buying possibilities, most likely involving nested King's Court, Throne Room and/or Procession chains
2. Work out the nested spaghetti mess and check if it all works out

Step 2 seems just as hard as step 1.

[wuthefwasthat]

Question for CC: How do you actually go about solving a puzzle like this? pen and paper, some computer sim, real cards?

Over the summer, while I was doing a lot of Dominion puzzles, I imagined having simple software to help work out puzzles (those Procession chains...).  People could potentially share log files easily to prove their solutions, and collaborate/tweak easily.  There are huge classes of puzzles that would be more interesting with this sort of framework, e.g. "Empty provinces as fast you can with this Kingdom", "Gain as many points as you can on this turn, with this hand and deck".  You could also make up new cards and play around with them. 

But the UI seemed pretty tricky to get right, I knew it'd take a while, and I suspect interest levels are low (outside of CC), so it was more just an idea than anything I seriously considered creating.   If I'm wrong and people would indeed like such a thing, and any CS-y people are interested in making it, we could start a separate thread to discuss (I have some ideas for how the design should go).  I may be willing to help out with such a project in my spare time.  If this happens, we can collectively destroy the tricky Guilds puzzles that I'm sure some of us will think up 

I was wondering if you'd show up again.

Your heavenly presence beckons (and your camouflage is not sufficient to evade my attention)

To clarify: getting over 50 points in one buy means that one of my buys increases my score by over 50, not that I only use a single buy in the solution. In fact I use rather more than that (around 100 if you include Black Market buys).

Ah, I see.  Seems very possible now.   But only for the celestial.   

And yes, my current solution does score well over 1000 points. I'll probably post it at the weekend once I've finished tidying it up.

Very excited and curious.  You should share with me in advance, so I don't need to wait, haha.

I predict:

• Same kingdom as before, but with Black Market additionally. 
• Solution is the same up to the playing of Peddler on turn 4. 

If they both are true, it will be a crazy optimization feat. 
But if either is not true, I'm more excited.  The most natural thing to try to do would be to fit in a King's Court instead of Catacombs or Peddler, but I remember this being quite hard

[Celestial Chameleon]

I predict:

• Same kingdom as before, but with Black Market additionally. 
• Solution is the same up to the playing of Peddler on turn 4. 

Well, you got one of those right.

Behold:

Kingdom: Hamlet (Hm), Black Market (Bm), Watchtower (Wt), Fortress (Ft), Nomad Camp (Nc),
Procession (Pr), Catacombs (Ct), Haggler (Hg), Goons (Gn), King's Court (Kc) and Peddler (Pd)
Other Cards: Copper (C), Hovel (H), Necropolis (N), Overgrown Estate (O), Ruined Market (Rm)
Black Market Deck: Young Witch, Cultist, Squire, Woodcutter, Bridge, Gardens, Quarry, Sir Martin, Worker's Village, City, Council Room,
Counting House, Festival, Margrave, Market, Fairgrounds, Hunting Grounds, Bank, Expand, Forge, Vineyard, Scrying Pool

Turn 1: Draw CCCCH
Play 4C
Buy Nc1

Turn 2: Draw NcCCCO
Play Nc and 3C
Buy Wt1 and Hm1

Turn 3: Draw N,(reshuffle),NcHmWtC
Play N and Nc
Play Hm, draw O, discard C,O
Play Wt, draw 6C
Play 6C
Buy Pr1,Pr2,Pd1

Turn 4: Draw H,(reshuffle),PrPrNcWt
Play Pr1-Pr2:
- Play Nc1 twice, Nc1-->Ct1, reveal Wt, trash Ct1, gain Ft1, trash Ft1, put Ft1 in hand
- Play Ft1 twice, draw Pd1,Hm1, Ft1-->Ct2, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct2, gain Pr3 on deck
- Pr2-->Ct3, reveal Wt, trash Ct3, gain Pr4 on deck
Play Hm1, draw Pr4, discard H for +1 Buy
Play Pd1, draw Pr3
Play Pr3-Pr4:
- Play Ft1 twice, draw 2C, Ft1-->Ct4, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct4, gain Pr5 on deck
- Play Ft1 twice, draw Pr5,C, Ft1-->Ct5, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct5, gain Pr6 on deck
- Pr4-->Ct6, reveal Wt, trash Ct6, gain Pr7 on deck
Play Pr5-Ft1, draw Pr6,Pr7, Ft1-->Ct7, reveal Wt, trash Ct7, gain Pr8 on deck
Play Pr6-Pr7:
- Play Ft1 twice, draw Pr8,C, Ft1-->Ct8, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct8, gain Pr9 on deck
- Play Pr8 twice:
  - Play Ft1 twice, draw Pr9,C, Ft1-->Ct9, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct9, gain Pr10 on deck
  - Play Pr9 twice:
    - Play Ft1 twice, draw Pr10,C, Ft1-->Ct10, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, trash Ct10, gain Bm1 on deck
    - Play Pr10 twice:
      - Play Ft1 twice, draw Bm1,C, Ft1-->Hg1, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, put Hg1 on deck
      - Play Ft1 twice, draw Hg1,N, Ft1-->Hg2, put Ft1 in hand, reveal Wt, put Hg2 on deck
      - Pr10-->Hg3, reveal Wt, put Hg3 on deck
    - Pr9-->Hg4, reveal Wt, put Hg4 on deck
  - Pr8-->Hg5, reveal Wt, put Hg5 on deck
- Pr7-->Hg6, reveal Wt, put Hg6 on deck
Play Ft1, draw Hg6
Play N, Hg1 and Hg6 (have 33 Actions, $9 and 4 Buys)

Play Bm1, play 7C, buy City, gain Bm2 and Wt2, reveal Wt, put all on deck
Play Wt1, draw City,Bm2,Wt2,Hg3-5
Play Hg3-5
Play Bm2, buy Hunting Grounds, gain Hg7-10 and Bm3
Play City, draw Hg7-8
Play Hg7-8
Play Wt2, draw Hg9-10, Bm3, Hunting Grounds, Hg2, O
Play Hg2 and Hg9-10 (have 22 Actions, $26 and 5 Buys)

Play Bm3, buy Quarry, gain Bm4-6, Wt3-7 and Hm2-3
Play Hunting Grounds, reshuffle, draw Bm4,Wt3,Wt4,Hm2
Play Hm2, draw H, discard O and H
Play Bm4, buy Expand, gain Gn1-10, reveal Wt, put all Goons on deck
Play Wt3, draw Gn1-5
Play Gn1-5
Play Wt4, draw Gn6-10 and Wt5
Play Gn6-10 (have 8 Actions, $39 and 16 Buys; all subsequent buys give 10 VP)

Play Wt5, draw Bm5-6,Wt6-7,Hm3 and Quarry
Play Hm3, reshuffle, draw H, discard H for +1 Buy
Play Bm5, play Quarry, buy Fairgrounds, gain Kc1-10, reveal Wt, put all King's Courts on deck
Play Wt6, draw Kc1,Kc2,Kc3,Kc4
Play Kc1-Kc2:
- Play Kc3 thrice:
  - Play Kc4 thrice:
    - Play Bm6 thrice, buy Council Room, Worker's Village and Gardens, gain 30 cards (Bm7-9,Wt8-10,Hm4-10, 10 Silvers and 7 Coppers)
      - Reveal Wt, put Bm7-9, Wt8 and Council Room on deck
    - Play Wt7 thrice, draw Bm7-9, Wt8, Council Room and Kc5
    - Play Bm7 thrice, buy Festival, Counting House and Bank, gain 30 cards (Pd2-10,Nc2-10,Rm1-10, Silver and Copper)
      - Reveal Wt, put Counting House and Bm10 on deck (Nc2-10 automatically top-deck)
  - Play Bm8 thrice, buy Bridge, Sir Martin and Squire, gain 20 cards (10 Coppers and 10 Curses)
    - Reveal Wt, put Bridge, Sir Martin and Squire on deck, and trash 10 Curses
  - Play Bm9 thrice, buy Margrave, Market and Forge, gain 30 cards (Bm10,Ft2-10, 8 Silvers, 2 Potions and 10 Coppers)
    - Reveal Wt, put Margrave, Market, Bm10 and 2 Potions on deck
- Play Council Room thrice, draw 12 cards (Margrave, Market, Bm10, 2 Potions, Sir Martin, Squire, Bridge, Nc2-5)
(have 4 Actions, $26, 20 Buys and 130 VP)

- Play Kc5 thrice:
  - Play Bm10 thrice, play 2 Potions, buy Vineyard, Scrying Pool and Woodcutter, gain 25 cards (25 Coppers)
    - Reveal Wt, put Scrying Pool on deck
  - Play Margrave thrice, draw 9 cards (Scrying Pool, Nc6-10, Counting House and Kc6-7)
  - Play Kc6 thrice:
    - Play Market thrice, draw 3 cards (Kc8-10)
    - Play Sir Martin thrice
    - Play Kc7 thrice:
      - Play Squire thrice for +6 Buys
      - Play Bridge thrice
      - Play Kc8 thrice:
        - Play Nc2 thrice
        - Play Nc3 thrice
        - Play Kc9 thrice:
          - Play Nc4 thrice
          - Play Nc5 thrice
          - Play Kc10 thrice:
            - Play Nc6 thrice
            - Play Nc7 thrice
            - Play Nc8 thrice
(have 7 Actions, $79, 62 Buys and 160 VP)

Play Counting House, draw 53 Coppers
Play Scrying Pool, discard O, draw Expand,(reshuffle),Hm4-10,Wt9-10,Ft2-10,Pd2-10,Rm1-10, Forge, Festival, Woodcutter and Worker's Village
Play Ft2-10, draw 9 Silvers
Play Pd2-10, draw 9 Silvers
Play Hm4-10, draw Silver, Fairgrounds, Vineyard, Gardens, Bank,(reshuffle) and 2 Coppers, discard 3 Watchtowers, Forge and 10 Copper
(have 22 Actions, $89, 69 Buys and 160 VP)

Play Nc9-10
Play Rm1-10
Play Festival
Play Woodcutter
Play Worker's Village, draw Copper
Play 19 Silvers and 46 Coppers
Play Bank (worth $76)

Have $257 and 84 Buys
Buy 21 Silvers, 14 Potions, 17 Golds, 8 Estates, 8 Duchies, 8 Provinces (gaining 13 Golds) and 8 Colonies (gaining 12 Platinums), gaining 840 VP

Have 8 Colonies, 8 Provinces, 8 Duchies, 8 Estates, Fairgrounds (worth 16 VP), Gardens (worth 31 VP), Vineyard (worth 39 VP) and 1000 VP tokens
Total score: 1246 VP

Deck: (316 cards total, 119 Actions, 43 distinct cards)
10 Hamlets, 10 Black Markets, 10 Watchtowers, 10 Fortresses, 9 Nomad Camps, 4 Processions, 10 Hagglers, 10 Goons, 10 King's Courts, 10 Peddlers
Squire, Woodcutter, Bridge, Gardens, Quarry, Sir Martin, Worker's Village, City, Council Room, Counting House, Festival, Margrave, Market,

Fairgrounds, Hunting Grounds, Bank, Expand, Forge, Vineyard, Scrying Pool
60 Coppers, 40 Silvers, 16 Potions, 30 Golds, 12 Platinums
8 Estates, 8 Duchies, 8 Provinces, 8 Colonies
Hovel, Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, 10 Ruined Markets

Vineyard buy increased score by 52 (39 from Vineyard, 10 from Goons, 1 from Gardens and 2 from Fairgrounds)

[Dsell]

No words.

[jonts26]

My God, it's full of stars!

[Kirian]

They should have sent a poet.

[jonts26]

They should have sent a poet.

Awww man. That's a better quote than mine.

[Kirian]

They should have sent a poet.

Awww man. That's a better quote than mine.

Nah, just a less-used one.  One of those movies is a lot older and gained much better acclaim from critics.  It was a hell of a lot weirder though.

[Axxle]

I saw the post, my heart started beating faster, I started breathing heavier, I think I'm in love!

edit: and I got the first two turns right! Woo!

[Robz888]

This is a "and let there be light!" moment.

[Morgrim7]

Someone make a Rebecca Black meme.

[SirPeebles]

Probably my favorite part of the whole thing is that CC bothers to time the Vineyard purchase to coincide with Gardens and Fairgrounds appreciating.

[Kirian]

I think my favorite part is the Procession-Catacombs-Watchtower[-Fortress] interaction.  Here we have an example of a card being included for the sole purpose of allowing a card that normally forces a $1 upgrade to gain a card of lower value.  It's genius.

[Avalanchian]

Why, man, he doth bestride the narrow world
Like a Colossus, and we petty men
Walk under his huge legs and peep about
To find ourselves dishonorable graves.

Am I the only one he feels a bit like that reading the solution?

[heron]

I mostly feel like, man, CC could be pulling a huge hoax and the solution doesn't work and I wouldn't have a clue.

[GendoIkari]

I mostly feel like, man, CC could be pulling a huge hoax and the solution doesn't work and I wouldn't have a clue.

The ultimate respect-troll!

Actually my wife and I plan to sit down with all the real cards and go through the solution step-by-step soon, just to watch the magic unfold.

[Avalanchian]

I mostly feel like, man, CC could be pulling a huge hoax and the solution doesn't work and I wouldn't have a clue.

The ultimate respect-troll!

Actually my wife and I plan to sit down with all the real cards and go through the solution step-by-step soon, just to watch the magic unfold.

I desperately want to do this, but do not own almost all the necessary cards. 

[GendoIkari]

What order was the Black Market deck in to start with? And I'm guessing that it actually matters what order you put the unbought cards back on the bottom, but I should be able to work that out for myself.

[soulnet]

What order was the Black Market deck in to start with? And I'm guessing that it actually matters what order you put the unbought cards back on the bottom, but I should be able to work that out for myself.

As long as all cards bought are different there is always at least one (actually, at least 3 and I suspect way more than that) possible initial order and order in which to put unbought cards each time that makes it happen

[GendoIkari]

I found an error while going through it all with the physical cards.



You put Kc 1-10 on deck, then draw 1-4. Then you put Nc 2-9 on deck... but when you Kc-Council Room, you draw the rest of the King's Courts without drawing the Nomad Camps. Also, you say to top-deck Bridge along with Sir Martin and Squire (on top of the King's Courts and Nomad Camps), but it is not drawn when you play Kc-Council Room either; it's drawn later when you play Margrave.

I'm assuming that this is the sort of thing that you can somehow work around... I really hope so anyway! It seems likely that you can just not top-deck the Nomad Camps or the Bridge... you're really close to the reshuffle anyway, and if you do reshuffle, then you can get all the Nomad Camps and the Bridge on top anyway...

[GendoIkari]

What order was the Black Market deck in to start with? And I'm guessing that it actually matters what order you put the unbought cards back on the bottom, but I should be able to work that out for myself.

As long as all cards bought are different there is always at least one (actually, at least 3 and I suspect way more than that) possible initial order and order in which to put unbought cards each time that makes it happen

Yes, after thinking about it a bit I'm sure that it's definitely possible to be able to buy the cards in any order you want if you assume perfect shuffle luck on the BM deck, but it's a bit of a puzzle in itself to try to figure out the initial order of the deck!

[Kirian]

OK, do we really need spoilers?  This is not something that's going to get done by someone else.

[mail-mi]

I know this is genius, really, but why have I spotted a mistake (may not be a mistake, but I spotted it nonetheless): He puts Nc2-9 on the deck with Wt, and where does the tenth one go? Shouldn't it go on the deck too (because it's nomad camp?) or does he trash it w/ watchtower?

[Morgrim7]

I know this is genius, really, but why have I spotted a mistake (may not be a mistake, but I spotted it nonetheless): He puts Nc2-9 on the deck with Wt, and where does the tenth one go? Shouldn't it go on the deck too (because it's nomad camp?) or does he trash it w/ watchtower?

Probably trashes it. Doesnt serve any other purpose, does it?

[GendoIkari]

I know this is genius, really, but why have I spotted a mistake (may not be a mistake, but I spotted it nonetheless): He puts Nc2-9 on the deck with Wt, and where does the tenth one go? Shouldn't it go on the deck too (because it's nomad camp?) or does he trash it w/ watchtower?

Probably trashes it. Doesnt serve any other purpose, does it?

He plays it later. Dunno if he needs that buy and 2 money or not. Either way, this is related to the same mistake I found, but I missed that it was Nomad Camp and therefore auto top decked.

[Celestial Chameleon]

I found an error while going through it all with the physical cards.



You put Kc 1-10 on deck, then draw 1-4. Then you put Nc 2-9 on deck... but when you Kc-Council Room, you draw the rest of the King's Courts without drawing the Nomad Camps. Also, you say to top-deck Bridge along with Sir Martin and Squire (on top of the King's Courts and Nomad Camps), but it is not drawn when you play Kc-Council Room either; it's drawn later when you play Margrave.

I'm assuming that this is the sort of thing that you can somehow work around... I really hope so anyway! It seems likely that you can just not top-deck the Nomad Camps or the Bridge... you're really close to the reshuffle anyway, and if you do reshuffle, then you can get all the Nomad Camps and the Bridge on top anyway...

I know this is genius, really, but why have I spotted a mistake (may not be a mistake, but I spotted it nonetheless): He puts Nc2-9 on the deck with Wt, and where does the tenth one go? Shouldn't it go on the deck too (because it's nomad camp?) or does he trash it w/ watchtower?

Fixed both of these.

[soulnet]

Yes, after thinking about it a bit I'm sure that it's definitely possible to be able to buy the cards in any order you want if you assume perfect shuffle luck on the BM deck, but it's a bit of a puzzle in itself to try to figure out the initial order of the deck!

Its not really hard to construct a possible initial state by greedily chosing where to put each card. If there are BM plays that do not buy a card you have to consider more cases, but still, nothing too hard. Especially in the context of a thread that empties the supply in 4 turns.

[Squidd]

Wanted to make a joke about how KC-Council Room is awfully generous to his opponent, but then he plays Margrave anyway. He thought of everything!

[AdamH]

You are amazing, and I +1-ed your posts, but...

Turn 4, line 5. After playing Pr1->Pr2, you play Pr2 again. I don't think it's an error in the numbers, since I don't see how you get another Procession in hand.

I apologize for questioning you.

[Donald X.]

You are amazing, and I +1-ed your posts, but...

Turn 4, line 5. After playing Pr1->Pr2, you play Pr2 again. I don't think it's an error in the numbers, since I don't see how you get another Procession in hand.

I apologize for questioning you.

"- Pr2-->Ct3, reveal Wt, trash Ct3, gain Pr4 on deck" is Pr2 being trashed (the last thing Pr1 does with it).

[ashersky]

You are amazing, and I +1-ed your posts, but...

Turn 4, line 5. After playing Pr1->Pr2, you play Pr2 again. I don't think it's an error in the numbers, since I don't see how you get another Procession in hand.

I apologize for questioning you.

"- Pr2-->Ct3, reveal Wt, trash Ct3, gain Pr4 on deck" is Pr2 being trashed (the last thing Pr1 does with it).

Donald, you forgot to switch accounts before replying.

[AdamH]

You are amazing, and I +1-ed your posts, but...

Turn 4, line 5. After playing Pr1->Pr2, you play Pr2 again. I don't think it's an error in the numbers, since I don't see how you get another Procession in hand.

I apologize for questioning you.

"- Pr2-->Ct3, reveal Wt, trash Ct3, gain Pr4 on deck" is Pr2 being trashed (the last thing Pr1 does with it).

Ah, I misread. This was the card being trashed, not played. Once again, I apologize.

[Kirian]

You are amazing, and I +1-ed your posts, but...

Turn 4, line 5. After playing Pr1->Pr2, you play Pr2 again. I don't think it's an error in the numbers, since I don't see how you get another Procession in hand.

I apologize for questioning you.

"- Pr2-->Ct3, reveal Wt, trash Ct3, gain Pr4 on deck" is Pr2 being trashed (the last thing Pr1 does with it).

Donald, you forgot to switch accounts before replying.

lol

CC has been identified as not Donald, though.

[ashersky]

You are amazing, and I +1-ed your posts, but...

Turn 4, line 5. After playing Pr1->Pr2, you play Pr2 again. I don't think it's an error in the numbers, since I don't see how you get another Procession in hand.

I apologize for questioning you.

"- Pr2-->Ct3, reveal Wt, trash Ct3, gain Pr4 on deck" is Pr2 being trashed (the last thing Pr1 does with it).

Donald, you forgot to switch accounts before replying.

lol

CC has been identified as not Donald, though.

Just a joke to get easy +respect.

[wuthefwasthat]

Well, you got one of those right.

The Kingdom change seems so obvious in retrospect...  But pretty sweet that you can get to that point without Develop at all!  To what extent were the first few Black Market cards really important? 

[Davio]

You are amazing, and I +1-ed your posts, but...

Turn 4, line 5. After playing Pr1->Pr2, you play Pr2 again. I don't think it's an error in the numbers, since I don't see how you get another Procession in hand.

I apologize for questioning you.

"- Pr2-->Ct3, reveal Wt, trash Ct3, gain Pr4 on deck" is Pr2 being trashed (the last thing Pr1 does with it).

Donald, you forgot to switch accounts before replying.

lol

CC has been identified as not Donald, though.

No, CC is Donald's house slave, tasked with belittling the common people with his insane contraptions.

[Lashof]

No, CC is Donald's house slave, tasked with belittling the common people with his insane contraptions.

So he's a rigger who assembles contraptions?  Makes sense.

[Morgrim7]

No, CC is Donald's house slave, tasked with belittling the common people with his insane contraptions.

So he's a rigger who assembles contraptions?  Makes sense.

CC...is a house elf?

[Axxle]

I'll send CC a sock!

[Morgrim7]

I'll send CC a sock!

Why? CC has practically solved dominion!

[ConMan]

Yeah, wait until Guilds comes out and he empties the Supply in Turn 3 first!

[ehunt]

it seems like potion should not be in the supply (maybe i am confusing isotropic's black market implementation with the official rules though)

[Tables]

Scrying Pool is in the Black Market (among other things, not sure). So yes, Potion should be in the kingdom.

[ehunt]

Scrying Pool is in the Black Market (among other things, not sure). So yes, Potion should be in the kingdom.

on isotropic, it's the other way around (there are never potion cost cards in the black market unless there are potion cost cards in the kingdom), but the alchemy rulebook agrees that you can have a potion cost card in the black market and not in the supply (so the original solution is fine).

[Davio]

So with Guilds this will become 3 turns, right?

I'll bet CC is already working on it.

Theory, could you do an interview with CC at some point? I'm curious as to what his motivations are as he doesn't seem to play (perhaps under an unknown alias) or post many other stuff than these amazing puzzle solutions.

[Axxle]

Theory, could you do an interview with CC at some point? I'm curious as to what his motivations are as he doesn't seem to play (perhaps under an unknown alias) or post many other stuff than these amazing puzzle solutions.

I think people have posted about that before, someone who knows CC. Don't remember at the moment.

[shark_bait]

Tables knows him irl, he posted it in the powergrid subforum a while back.  Gotta go to the bottom of the extended post to find the mention.

[Simon (DK)]

I went through the solution irl, and I found 3 minor mistakes:

1.

Play Bm2, buy Hunting Grounds, gain Hg7-10 and Bm3
Play City, draw Hg7-8
Play Hg7-8
Play Wt2, draw Hg9-10, Bm3, Hunting Grounds, Hg2, O

This doesn't work with gaining to discard and reshuffling since O is in the deck (as the only card), and it doesn't work with topdecking since Hunting Grounds will get at the top (you gain that last). It should work if you just topdeck Hg7-8, and then reshuffle after drawing O with Wt.


2.

    - Play Bm7 thrice, buy Festival, Counting House and Bank, gain 30 cards (Pd2-10,Nc2-10,Rm1-10, Silver and Copper)
      - Reveal Wt, put Counting House and Bm10 on deck (Nc2-10 automatically top-deck)

You don't gain Bm10 here, so you can't topdeck it (you do in a few lines down from here).


3.

Play Hm4-10, draw Silver, Fairgrounds, Vineyard, Gardens, Bank,(reshuffle) and 2 Coppers, discard 3 Watchtowers, Forge and 10 Copper
(have 22 Actions, $89, 69 Buys and 160 VP)

When you reshuffle here, you have H and O still in the deck. It works with the rest if you draw these and discard them instead of 2 Coppers.



I can't totally rule out that it was me, who did some mistakes, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't.

[Young Nick]

I found a mistake! Your Scrying Pool play only draws actions when there are non-actions still in deck. Now, this is a mistake that can't possibly hurt the solution because you just draw an extra card, but a mistake nonetheless. Ha!

I'll go back to my corner of inadequacy and shame now.

[allanfieldhouse]

Can someone explain the strategy in plain English? I remember reading this thread when I was new to Dominion and not having any idea what was going on. I just re-read it, and I think I understand most of the important parts, but I still don't think I got everything.

Here's my attempt at explaining:

1. He starts out by using processions to play actions twice and gain new cards. He trashes fortresses because then they come back to his hand (even after playing them due to procession), and he trashes catacombs to gain cheaper cards. Often when gaining a card, he will immediately trash it using watchtower to trigger an effect (or just use watchtower to topdeck the card).

2. At this point he plays all 10 hagglers. Normally you wouldn't be able to alternate back and forth between the action & buy phases of your turn, but he uses black market to get around this. Each time he buys a card from the black market deck, he gains 10 cheaper cards due to the hagglers, and he can continue to play actions afterwards.

3. He gains & plays all 10 goons so that every buy from here on out also nets him 10 victory points.

4. He repeats the step 2 black market strategy, but this time using king's court to supercharge everything.

5. Finally, he plays all his treasure (including a bank worth $76) and buys all the remaining cards (only victory and treasure cards were left at this point).


Can anyone else give a better/clearer/more accurate explanation than that?

[florrat]

Sorry for the heresy, but

Puzzle: Adapt CC's solution so that you don't need Peddlers in the kingdom to get started (getting started means: have a hand of Fortress, Watchtower and two Processions).

[liopoil]

Surely with stonemason and baker you can do everything much more easily. you can have a really good turn 3.

[florrat]

Good point. Sorry, I mean without using cards from Guilds.