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Author Topic: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square  (Read 66192 times)

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SirPeebles

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2013, 05:34:08 pm »
0

Because one of my favorite things about Dominion is that it's symmetric. Playing against someone who's been practicing a particular board breaks that.
By that logic, doesn't playing against Stef on any board break that as well?

This is why people wanted a decent automatch system.
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theory

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #76 on: December 02, 2013, 06:29:14 pm »
0

It would be like rigging a deck to deal you a particular hand in Bridge or Spades, one that you've played/analyzed before.
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florrat

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #77 on: December 02, 2013, 07:59:14 pm »
0

Goko allows partial card selection, right?  If you really want to practice this combo but not against bots, then include Hermit and Market Square but leave the rest of the kingdom random.  Then you can actually practice less than ideal kingdoms, learn to identify counters and adapt to such scenarios.
Good advice. Just wanted to correct you: Goko doesn't allow any partial card selection. Either it's fully random or you specify the complete set. Partial card selection can only be done with the user extension.
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ftl

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #78 on: December 02, 2013, 09:04:09 pm »
+3

Last I checked, I thought you could just specify part of the board and leave it at that, and then it would randomize the rest when you started the game. So you could do partial selection that way. My internet right now sucks though so I can't check.
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florrat

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2013, 01:04:18 am »
0

Last I checked, I thought you could just specify part of the board and leave it at that, and then it would randomize the rest when you started the game. So you could do partial selection that way. My internet right now sucks though so I can't check.
You are completely right. I stand corrected, and sorry for the wrong "correction". I never knew that feature existed.
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7string

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #80 on: April 18, 2014, 04:53:25 am »
+1

I've been meaning to post a response to thank you for documenting this combo.

I read it a couple months ago when I frankly was getting a little bored with Dominion both online and IRL.  This combo interested me so I tried it out a couple times.  Even though I slipped up first time I tried it against a bot, it still performed amazingly, and only took a couple extra turns to finish the game.  Mostly though, this combo just had me grinning from ear to ear.  It is such an elegant and powerful combination.  I don't think I have played a combo which is so much fun.  It restored my interest in the game, and gave me hope there were other combos and strategies I was still unaware of which could bring back the fun factor.

Thanks!!!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 03:21:39 pm by 7string »
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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #81 on: April 18, 2014, 10:23:22 am »
+4

combos like this show the strength of the dominion game design.  There are no "infinite combos", but the simple design premise creates all sorts of unexpected "emergent properties" like this one.  yay.
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qdread

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #82 on: April 19, 2014, 10:33:14 am »
0

I've been meaning to post a response to thank you for documenting this combo.

I read it a couple months ago when I frankly was getting a little bored with Dominion both online and IRL.  This combo interested me so I tried it out a couple times.  Even though I slipped up first time I tried it against a bot, it still performed amazingly, and only took a couple extra turns to finish the game.  Mostly though, this combo just had me grinning from ear to ear.  It is such an elegant and powerful combination.  I don't think I have played a combo which is so much fun.  It restored my interest in the game, and gave me hope there were other combos and strategies I was still unaware of which could bring back the fun factor.

Thanks!!!

Wow, the dude who ragequit on me and accused me of ruining the game with boring, mechanical play when I used this combo did not seem to share that opinion.  :D I do understand the frustration, if you don't have prior knowledge of a certain combo and your opponent just plays it based on received wisdom, where they may not have stumbled upon that strategy without reading the Dominion literature. I suppose it's similar to MTG, where people complain about "net deckers."
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liopoil

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2014, 11:27:30 am »
0

No infinite combos? there are combos that are only limited by the size of the supply...
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SirPeebles

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #84 on: April 19, 2014, 11:33:22 am »
+1

No infinite combos? there are combos that are only limited by the size of the supply...

Your point?
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ConMan

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #85 on: April 21, 2014, 07:06:57 pm »
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I can think of two infinite combos. Neither of them is particularly good, but both have theoretically unbound points-gaining capability (though admittedly not in a single turn, which is one reason why they're not great).
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sudgy

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #86 on: April 21, 2014, 07:15:13 pm »
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I can think of two infinite combos. Neither of them is particularly good, but both have theoretically unbound points-gaining capability (though admittedly not in a single turn, which is one reason why they're not great).

Fortress-Bishop?  That one is pretty good.

Actually, now that I'm thinking of VP tokens, Monument in a good engine is another one, and you can even use Goons + Trader.  So I can think of three.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #87 on: April 21, 2014, 07:34:45 pm »
0

I would interpret an "infinite combo" to be one with an unending chain in a single turn.  More formally, that there is a game state where, given any positive number N, it is possible to play at least N cards before the end of your turn.
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silverspawn

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #88 on: April 21, 2014, 08:16:54 pm »
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I would interpret an "infinite combo" to be one with an unending chain in a single turn.  More formally, that there is a game state where, given any positive number N, it is possible to play at least N cards before the end of your turn.

that's impossible though. the only card which can make a card be played more than 3 times in a turn is procession, and during every procession chain there must be played new processions, so that's finite, and after every procession chain the first procession remains in play, so the number of chains you can play is also finite.

or am i missing something?

SirPeebles

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #89 on: April 21, 2014, 08:24:34 pm »
0

I would interpret an "infinite combo" to be one with an unending chain in a single turn.  More formally, that there is a game state where, given any positive number N, it is possible to play at least N cards before the end of your turn.

that's impossible though. the only card which can make a card be played more than 3 times in a turn is procession, and during every procession chain there must be played new processions, so that's finite, and after every procession chain the first procession remains in play, so the number of chains you can play is also finite.

or am i missing something?

You aren't missing anything.  The original claim was that infinite combos do not exist in Dominion.

There are combos which are bounded only by the size of the Supply.  For example, the combo in my first ever topic at f.ds.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #90 on: April 21, 2014, 08:29:08 pm »
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I would interpret an "infinite combo" to be one with an unending chain in a single turn.  More formally, that there is a game state where, given any positive number N, it is possible to play at least N cards before the end of your turn.

that's impossible though. the only card which can make a card be played more than 3 times in a turn is procession, and during every procession chain there must be played new processions, so that's finite, and after every procession chain the first procession remains in play, so the number of chains you can play is also finite.

or am i missing something?

By using Procession and Graverobber/Rogue, you can potentially play any action card more than 3 times in a turn.
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liopoil

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #91 on: April 21, 2014, 09:43:06 pm »
0

There are combos which are bounded only by the size of the Supply.  For example, the combo in my first ever topic at f.ds.
There's procession-procession-fortress with watchtower in hand and catacombs in the kingdom, and also something similar with develop instead of procession. I can't think of any others.
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ConMan

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #92 on: April 21, 2014, 11:44:55 pm »
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I can think of two infinite combos. Neither of them is particularly good, but both have theoretically unbound points-gaining capability (though admittedly not in a single turn, which is one reason why they're not great).

Fortress-Bishop?  That one is pretty good.

Actually, now that I'm thinking of VP tokens, Monument in a good engine is another one, and you can even use Goons + Trader.  So I can think of three.
Yes, actually those are perfectly good ones. The two I thought of were Bishop+Village+Graverobber/Rogue and Goons+Trader(+Watchtower if it needs speeding up). But the broad point being that there are a handful of combos that can each, once they get going, generate VP every turn without otherwise affecting the game state. I do, however, concede that I can't think of any combos that play out in a single turn to generate an unlimited number of VP in that turn - I think that it would be possible if Procession trashed the Action card before playing it twice, but otherwise you need a way to be able to chain the same two Processions endlessly and I don't see a way to do that.
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theblankman

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #93 on: April 22, 2014, 03:08:32 am »
0

I think that it would be possible if Procession trashed the Action card before playing it twice, but otherwise you need a way to be able to chain the same two Processions endlessly and I don't see a way to do that.
To get around the fact that the action is played twice before being trashed, you just need extra copies of the desired action(s) in the desired place, probably the trash.  Procession on Rogue could pull a Procession and Rogue out of the trash if they're already there.  Unfortunately that's trashing two cards and returning two cards, and you still need a way to draw and play the cards you returned.  If there was a triple version of Procession (as KC to Throne Room), that would do the trick, but that's probably why such a card doesn't exist :) 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 03:11:06 am by theblankman »
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blueblimp

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #94 on: April 25, 2014, 06:07:12 pm »
+1

the only card which can make a card be played more than 3 times in a turn is procession
This isn't quite true. Self-trashing cards costing $3+ can be played more than 3 times in a turn without use of procession: Feast, Mining Village, Pillage. (Did I forget any?) That doesn't help though.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #95 on: April 25, 2014, 07:36:38 pm »
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Self-trashing cards costing $3+ can be played more than 3 times in a turn without use of procession: Feast, Mining Village, Pillage. (Did I forget any?)

Death Cart

edit:  Also Urchin.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 07:37:52 pm by SirPeebles »
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heron

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2014, 11:11:11 pm »
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Self-trashing cards costing $3+ can be played more than 3 times in a turn without use of procession: Feast, Mining Village, Pillage. (Did I forget any?)

Death Cart

edit:  Also Urchin.

Also Counterfeit + Black Market gives all $3+ treasures. HOP Black Market doesn't need Counterfeit.
Also Knights. Madman. Spoils. Band of Misfits. I think that's it.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 04:56:21 pm by heron »
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navical

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #97 on: April 26, 2014, 03:07:02 am »
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How are you planning to gain Madmen mid-turn?
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KingZog3

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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #98 on: April 26, 2014, 11:31:11 am »
0

How are you planning to gain Madmen mid-turn?

Can you gain them with Black Market? I genuinely don't know...
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Re: Combo: Hermit/Madman + Market Square
« Reply #99 on: April 26, 2014, 11:32:51 am »
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How are you planning to gain Madmen mid-turn?

Can you gain them with Black Market? I genuinely don't know...
You can gain them when and only when you discard a Hermit from play.
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