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[markusin]

I wanted to know what your thoughts are about sneaking in a Scout or two when you're trying to go for BM-Envoy. I figured that later on in the game when you have lots of green cards in your deck, you can use the Scout to draw the victory cards before playing the Envoy so that you have less chance drawing a set of 5 like Province/Province/Estate/Gold/Copper. But is it really worth the attempt, or should the buy of Scout have just been another Silver buy?

[blueblimp]

Sounds awful at first glance. Instead of drawing Scout as one of the 4 other cards in a hand with Envoy, you're more likely to draw it dead as one of the 5 cards Envoy draws.

[Robz888]

This is not a good plan. You are almost certainly better off with Silver, or another Envoy (if you only have 1).

The issue is, if Envoy draws Smithy, you are like getting double hurt here. Additionally, Scout never grabs your Green cards as well as you expect--especially in a regular Province game, when you green but you don't end up with like a million Victory cards until the very, very end (unlike, say, Duke/Gardens/Silk Road).

[Morgrim7]

General rule of thumb: Never buy Scout. Ever.

[werothegreat]

General rule of thumb: Never buy Scout. Ever.

Fairgrounds.  Or, all your Tournaments were Swindled into Scouts, and there's one left for a 3-pile ending.

[LastFootnote]

General rule of thumb: Never buy Scout. Ever.

Fairgrounds.  Or, all your Tournaments were Swindled into Scouts, and there's one left for a 3-pile ending.

That's why it's a general rule of thumb, man. There are exceptions.

[SirPeebles]

And even with Fairgrounds, on a standard board you can eschew two cards, and Scout will often be one of those for me.  After all, gaining a Curse usually has lower opportunity cost.

[markusin]

General rule of thumb: Never buy Scout. Ever.

That's the obvious answer...and for a reason I guess. I don't think I've ever bought scout and not regretted it.

[Morgrim7]

General rule of thumb: Never buy Scout. Ever.

That's the obvious answer...and for a reason I guess. I don't think I've ever bought scout and not regretted it.

If you look on my CR page, you will see that I have never bought Scout once.

[LastFootnote]

General rule of thumb: Never buy Scout. Ever.

That's the obvious answer...and for a reason I guess. I don't think I've ever bought scout and not regretted it.

If you look on my CR page, you will see that I have never bought Scout once.

Well, not to nitpick, but that means you have no basis for comparison, at least drawing from your own decks.

On the other hand, if you refused to buy Mountebank and kept losing all your Mountebank games because of that, you'd probably figure out pretty fast that it's not usually a good idea. If that's never happened for Scout, I suppose that says something right there.

Out of curiosity, have you ever lost to an opponent who did buy (and play) Scout? I'm just curious. Wouldn't surprise me if it's never happened.

[heron]

Simulations suggest only about a 30% win rate for the scout player. Ow.

[Morgrim7]

General rule of thumb: Never buy Scout. Ever.

That's the obvious answer...and for a reason I guess. I don't think I've ever bought scout and not regretted it.

If you look on my CR page, you will see that I have never bought Scout once.

Well, not to nitpick, but that means you have no basis for comparison, at least drawing from your own decks.

On the other hand, if you refused to buy Mountebank and kept losing all your Mountebank games because of that, you'd probably figure out pretty fast that it's not usually a good idea. If that's never happened for Scout, I suppose that says something right there.

Out of curiosity, have you ever lost to an opponent who did buy (and play) Scout? I'm just curious. Wouldn't surprise me if it's never happened.

No

[LastFootnote]

General rule of thumb: Never buy Scout. Ever.

That's the obvious answer...and for a reason I guess. I don't think I've ever bought scout and not regretted it.

If you look on my CR page, you will see that I have never bought Scout once.

Well, not to nitpick, but that means you have no basis for comparison, at least drawing from your own decks.

On the other hand, if you refused to buy Mountebank and kept losing all your Mountebank games because of that, you'd probably figure out pretty fast that it's not usually a good idea. If that's never happened for Scout, I suppose that says something right there.

Out of curiosity, have you ever lost to an opponent who did buy (and play) Scout? I'm just curious. Wouldn't surprise me if it's never happened.

No

Wait, I found one!

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120522-102930-188a7b99.html

Of course, the Scout did your opponent almost zero good, so this doesn't prove anything.

[Morgrim7]

General rule of thumb: Never buy Scout. Ever.

That's the obvious answer...and for a reason I guess. I don't think I've ever bought scout and not regretted it.

If you look on my CR page, you will see that I have never bought Scout once.

Well, not to nitpick, but that means you have no basis for comparison, at least drawing from your own decks.

On the other hand, if you refused to buy Mountebank and kept losing all your Mountebank games because of that, you'd probably figure out pretty fast that it's not usually a good idea. If that's never happened for Scout, I suppose that says something right there.

Out of curiosity, have you ever lost to an opponent who did buy (and play) Scout? I'm just curious. Wouldn't surprise me if it's never happened.

No

Wait, I found one!

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120522-102930-188a7b99.html

Of course, the Scout did your opponent almost zero good, so this doesn't prove anything.

Wow I played terribly there :O
The only reason you'd get Scout here is...defense against Governor?

[dghunter79]

General rule of thumb: Never buy Scout. Ever.

That's the obvious answer...and for a reason I guess. I don't think I've ever bought scout and not regretted it.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120713-195219-c6ef8676.html

[WanderingWinder]

It's decent enough with scrying pool and free gains.

[Qvist]

I like it in Tournament games and can be useful in Minion games where you mostly don't want (m)any Silvers.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20121108-173243-c4f069ea.html

--- Qvist's turn 6 ---
Qvist plays 4 Coppers.
Qvist buys a Scout.

--- Qvist's turn 8 ---
Qvist plays 4 Coppers.
Qvist buys a Scout.

--- Qvist's turn 10 ---
Qvist plays a Scout.
... getting +1 action.
... Qvist reveals a Province, a Stables, and 2 Coppers.
... putting the Province into the hand.
... putting 3 cards back on the deck.
Qvist plays a Tournament.
... getting +1 action.
... Qvist reveals a Province.
... Qvist discards a Province and gains a Trusty Steed on the deck.
... drawing 1 card and getting +$1.

[WanderingWinder]

I like it in Tournament games and can be useful in Minion games where you mostly don't want (m)any Silvers.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20121108-173243-c4f069ea.html

--- Qvist's turn 6 ---
Qvist plays 4 Coppers.
Qvist buys a Scout.

--- Qvist's turn 8 ---
Qvist plays 4 Coppers.
Qvist buys a Scout.

--- Qvist's turn 10 ---
Qvist plays a Scout.
... getting +1 action.
... Qvist reveals a Province, a Stables, and 2 Coppers.
... putting the Province into the hand.
... putting 3 cards back on the deck.
Qvist plays a Tournament.
... getting +1 action.
... Qvist reveals a Province.
... Qvist discards a Province and gains a Trusty Steed on the deck.
... drawing 1 card and getting +$1.

The problem here, as with baron, is that it can just as easily suck the province (estate) out of the next hand where THAT is the one with the action you need to pair it with.

[Robz888]

Yeah, that's Scout's huge problem with Crossroads, too. (Well, okay, it's actually one of several huge problems with getting the cards to work together.)

[Qvist]

I like it in Tournament games and can be useful in Minion games where you mostly don't want (m)any Silvers.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20121108-173243-c4f069ea.html

--- Qvist's turn 6 ---
Qvist plays 4 Coppers.
Qvist buys a Scout.

--- Qvist's turn 8 ---
Qvist plays 4 Coppers.
Qvist buys a Scout.

--- Qvist's turn 10 ---
Qvist plays a Scout.
... getting +1 action.
... Qvist reveals a Province, a Stables, and 2 Coppers.
... putting the Province into the hand.
... putting 3 cards back on the deck.
Qvist plays a Tournament.
... getting +1 action.
... Qvist reveals a Province.
... Qvist discards a Province and gains a Trusty Steed on the deck.
... drawing 1 card and getting +$1.

The problem here, as with baron, is that it can just as easily suck the province (estate) out of the next hand where THAT is the one with the action you need to pair it with.

This is true, yeah. So, building an entire strategy (Baron/Crossroads) around this, isn't that great, but winning the Tournament race is so important. And if you have a Scout in hand and no Tournament, just don't play it. Yeah, then it's a dead card, but I think it's worth risking it.

[LastFootnote]

Scout really is just primarily an Intrigue-specific combo card. For Nobles/Harem/Great Hall, obviously, but it's more than that. There is an abundance of cards in Intrigue that benefit from [reordering/having knowledge of] the top of your deck. Wishing Well, Steward, Pawn, all the other cantrips, etc.

[WanderingWinder]

I like it in Tournament games and can be useful in Minion games where you mostly don't want (m)any Silvers.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20121108-173243-c4f069ea.html

--- Qvist's turn 6 ---
Qvist plays 4 Coppers.
Qvist buys a Scout.

--- Qvist's turn 8 ---
Qvist plays 4 Coppers.
Qvist buys a Scout.

--- Qvist's turn 10 ---
Qvist plays a Scout.
... getting +1 action.
... Qvist reveals a Province, a Stables, and 2 Coppers.
... putting the Province into the hand.
... putting 3 cards back on the deck.
Qvist plays a Tournament.
... getting +1 action.
... Qvist reveals a Province.
... Qvist discards a Province and gains a Trusty Steed on the deck.
... drawing 1 card and getting +$1.

The problem here, as with baron, is that it can just as easily suck the province (estate) out of the next hand where THAT is the one with the action you need to pair it with.

This is true, yeah. So, building an entire strategy (Baron/Crossroads) around this, isn't that great, but winning the Tournament race is so important. And if you have a Scout in hand and no Tournament, just don't play it. Yeah, then it's a dead card, but I think it's worth risking it.

But when do you want to get scout to win the tournament race rather than, you know, another tournament?

[Qvist]

I like it in Tournament games and can be useful in Minion games where you mostly don't want (m)any Silvers.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20121108-173243-c4f069ea.html

--- Qvist's turn 6 ---
Qvist plays 4 Coppers.
Qvist buys a Scout.

--- Qvist's turn 8 ---
Qvist plays 4 Coppers.
Qvist buys a Scout.

--- Qvist's turn 10 ---
Qvist plays a Scout.
... getting +1 action.
... Qvist reveals a Province, a Stables, and 2 Coppers.
... putting the Province into the hand.
... putting 3 cards back on the deck.
Qvist plays a Tournament.
... getting +1 action.
... Qvist reveals a Province.
... Qvist discards a Province and gains a Trusty Steed on the deck.
... drawing 1 card and getting +$1.

The problem here, as with baron, is that it can just as easily suck the province (estate) out of the next hand where THAT is the one with the action you need to pair it with.

This is true, yeah. So, building an entire strategy (Baron/Crossroads) around this, isn't that great, but winning the Tournament race is so important. And if you have a Scout in hand and no Tournament, just don't play it. Yeah, then it's a dead card, but I think it's worth risking it.

But when do you want to get scout to win the tournament race rather than, you know, another tournament?

I think that spamming Tournaments often isn't the best method to connect your Tournaments. In retrospect turn 6 might be another Tournament, but I like my turn 8 Scout buy. And if you get Followers, Scout also might help you to deal with the Estates you get. And a blocked Tournament is often worse than a Scout. But, to come back to original topic, Scout is a baaad card in BM games.

[WanderingWinder]

I think that spamming Tournaments often isn't the best method to connect your Tournaments.

I agree with this, but I don't think scout is the answer...

[Morgrim7]

I think that spamming Tournaments often isn't the best method to connect your Tournaments.

I agree with this, but I don't think scout is the answer...

Any good cycler...Warehouse is nice.