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Author Topic: Playing a live tournament tomorrow  (Read 2188 times)

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Fabian

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Playing a live tournament tomorrow
« on: September 17, 2011, 09:29:26 am »
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Hey guys,

Tomorrow I'm playing a live tournament for the first time. From what I understand, it's going to be 4-player games, with a randomly chosen card set for each game, chosen from a pool of 10 pre-selected sets. The first few rounds will feature only the base game, with the finals also including expansions and 1v1 play.

I've really only played 1v1, random cards, on isotropic, and I think I'm somewhere between very good and great at that game (typically level 38-41 on isotropic), but 4 player, pre-selected, base game only, is obviously a rather different beast. I'm confident I can beat up random bad players well enough to advance to the later stages, but I feel like I should probably do my homework if I'm facing decentish players who have prepared with the sets we're playing with and are more familiar with 4 player strategy than I am.

So, can anyone give me a crash course in semi-advanced 4 player strategy, or point me in a direction where I can read about it? Additionally, maybe we can discuss proper strategies for the card sets we're playing? I know the 5 sets from the rulebook will be included, as well as 5 others which I don't know yet.

"Witch, Mine, Militia, Gardens, Feast, Workshop, Village, Moat, Market, Smithy"

This seems to be one of the sets, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on it. Gardens in 4p games isn't exactly my forte :)

Any thoughts on any of the sets from the rulebook would be interesting to read, as well. I don't know exactly which cards are included in those sets, so maybe someone could post them? :)

Thanks for reading!
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DG

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Re: Playing a live tournament tomorrow
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 11:32:04 am »
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If you google for the rulebooks you can find them on the Rio Grande site for download. The games in the rulebooks typically support a variety of tactics and you need to react to the purchases of your opponents rather than use a firm plan. This is why they were chosen as sets for repeated play with interesting games.

Four player games can be tricky since you can't keep an eye on all your opponents easily. You can also find yourself beaten up very quickly by your opponents, sometimes by their poor skill helping each other rather than their great skill defeating you. Useful advice though could be ...

Expect games to end quickly. 12 provinces, 4 players, only 3 provinces each. Duchies become better.
Attacks are not necessarily as strong. You might find your militia hitting players who already have a 3 card hand.
Combinations of attacks from opponents can be devastating. This makes defences very important.
Curses are spread out between all players and no longer become a "you or me" scenario. Assess the impact of curses each game.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 11:35:43 am by DG »
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Geronimoo

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Re: Playing a live tournament tomorrow
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 12:29:53 pm »
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Cards from the base set simulate nicely (except Remodel but that isn't very good anyway in the base set). So you can set up 3 "bad" players in the simulator using some random non-optimal strategy and then try to find the strategy that beats them all consistently.
And I say "bad" because you'll be shocked how atrocious the level of play will be. Players who haven't played online or haven't read dominionstrategy.com will be awful... (that was my experience anyway when I last played in a so-called serious tournament)
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Geronimoo

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Re: Playing a live tournament tomorrow
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2011, 12:56:10 pm »
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I simulated a bit with the board you mention:

"Witch, Mine, Militia, Gardens, Feast, Workshop, Village, Moat, Market, Smithy"

Workshop/Gardens is so dominant you should go for it even if there's another pro player going for it. Most novices will think they need Market to make Gardens work not realizing the combo with Workshop so you might even go for optimal numbers (getting 8 Workshops before starting on the Gardens). Your opponents won't know what hit them :)

You could try the following built-in strategies in the simulator:
COMBO - Workshop/Gardens (you)
3/4P - BM - Witch/Moat (3 other players)

As you'll see the other guys are toast and there's really nothing they can do.
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DsnowMan

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Re: Playing a live tournament tomorrow
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2011, 01:45:10 pm »
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Download the implementation of Dominion from here:

http://www.slightlymagic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=2366

that lets you play against 3 AIs that don't suck. Not saying they are great, but they have clever 3-pile logic built in. If they sense the game is ending, they rush VP piles. This will get you used to playing against 3 average players.
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Davio

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Re: Playing a live tournament tomorrow
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2011, 01:59:02 pm »
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There are a few important things to pay attention to when switching from 2p to 4p:

- Defending (Moat) is much more important since you'll be attacked way more often. With 2p, you'll buy a Moat and you're opponent's attacks only occur when it's NOT in your hand. With much more players, you'll be attacked more and you'll have more chance to defense, e.g. your defense will "hit" more often.

- You should buy VP cards sooner. The general rule is that you often need to buy them sooner than you think you do. With 3p, you may want to start buying Duchies with 7 Provinces remaining. With 4p, there are only 3 Provinces per player on average (instead of 4 for 2p and 3p), so the piles will run out faster. Buying Duchies with 8 Provinces remaining may be good. This is also because there will probably be even more 3-pile endings than in 3p and 2p games.

- Prepare for some tricky endgame situations. If you find yourself with $4 and just a few Provinces remaining, it may be worthwile to buy a Remodel (if close to a reshuffle) to turn a Gold into a Province. Remodel is a very useful endgame card.

- It may be possible to catch some opponents off guard with the afore mentioned Workshop/Gardens combo.
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Fabian

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Re: Playing a live tournament tomorrow
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2011, 02:01:56 pm »
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I do think I will easily be the strongest player there, but I still do expect a fair number of somewhat competent players. A friend of mine who I consider to be very good is playing, at the very least. I also know a few of the "other" people who will be playing (like my ex and her recent boyfriend, go figure) who hover around level 20 on isotropic for instance, and I expect the other players in their playing group to be of sort of similar strength. I definitely do expect the level of play to be high enough that more than 50% of players will realize Workshop/Gardens is a combo, especially so since they've been able to prepare/discuss the sets, if they want. We'll see if I'm completely off tomorrow :)

Anyway, thanks for the simulating. Getting 8 Workshop sounds insane to me, I would expect that number to change significantly if two, (or even one?), more player(s) go for Gardens? I'll admit I'm not familiar with the simulator, though I should be if I want to get better at this game. I guess I have one evening to familiarize myself with it before tomorrow :)

Thanks DG for the rulebook tip, here are 5 more setups that will be played tomorrow, if someone wants to take a stab at commenting them :)

Cellar, Market, Militia, Mine, Moat, Remodel, Smithy, Village, Woodcutter, Workshop

Adventurer, Bureaucrat, Chancellor, Chapel, Feast, Laboratory, Market, Mine, Moneylender, Throne Room

Bureaucrat, Chancellor, Council Room, Festival, Library, Militia, Moat, Spy, Thief, Village

Cellar, Chapel, Feast, Gardens, Laboratory, Thief, Village, Witch, Woodcutter, Workshop - Particularly interested in hearing your thoughts on Chapel vs Gardens strategies in 4p games

Bureaucrat, Cellar, Festival, Library, Market, Remodel, Smithy, Throne Room, Village, Woodcutter
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 02:08:09 pm by Fabian »
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