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[Davio]

I had an idea for a card and am interested what you guys think about it.
Credit - $1
Treasure

$1
-----------
When you buy this, you may play it immediately.
If you do, +$1 and +1 Buy

You may only buy one copy of Credit per turn.

The idea behind it is that you can get $1 extra to spend, but as punishment you get an extra Copper in your deck.
So let's say you have $7, you buy this and play it immediately. It costs $1 so you have $6 left, but you get $2 from Credit so now you have $8, huzzah a Province!

Now you can always get a $5 in the opening, but I don't know if that's good or bad.
The limit of one per turn is so that you can't empty the pile in one go.

I think it's pretty fun to have an instant Copper for when you need just that $1 more.

Thoughts?

[Drab Emordnilap]

Almost strictly better than Cache (edge cases ahoy), and lets EVERYTHING be cache? Maybe it should give +$2 when you buy it and be worth +$0 normally.

[Davio]

Yes it's strictly better than Cache, but is that really a problem? I think it gives interesting choices as to whether you want the more expensive card with a Copper or the cheaper one without it.

Giving €0 & €2 could be interesting in that it becomes a Curse, let's see what the others think, maybe a poll in due time.

[jamespotter]

Maybe I'm missing something, but as it stands, I don't see how Credit nets you anything except for a buy. It costs $1 and gives you $1, so that makes your net money gain 0. Right now, it only generates buys.

[SirPeebles]

Maybe I'm missing something, but as it stands, I don't see how Credit nets you anything except for a buy. It costs $1 and gives you $1, so that makes your net money gain 0. Right now, it only generates buys.

You also get to play it immediately, which produces another $1.

[Davio]

Maybe I'm missing something, but as it stands, I don't see how Credit nets you anything except for a buy. It costs $1 and gives you $1, so that makes your net money gain 0. Right now, it only generates buys.

You also get to play it immediately, which produces another $1.

Indeed, the intent of the card is to be a one-shot Bridge come to think of it.

So you can get a card which costs $1 more than the amount of $ you currently have, but at the price of an extra Copper in your deck.
You can also compare it to Embargo, it's a self-Embargo with a Copper instead of a Curse.

[AJD]

Yes it's strictly better than Cache, but is that really a problem? I think it gives interesting choices as to whether you want the more expensive card with a Copper or the cheaper one without it.

"Strictly better" is a problem for the reasons Donald has mentioned somewhere or other—if Village and Worker's Village both cost $3, no one would ever buy Village if Worker's Village was on the board. This has the same problem with respect to Cache.

[Powerman]

I like this idea best as costing 0 and gaining a copper in play when bought, or can gain a copper on play.

[Kirian]

Almost strictly better than Cache (edge cases ahoy), and lets EVERYTHING be cache? Maybe it should give +$2 when you buy it and be worth +$0 normally.

I am interested in your reasoning as to why a card that gives you an effective Gold for the rest of the game (at the cost of two Coppers in your deck) is almost strictly worse than a card which gives you a one-shot Bridge effect on this turn only (at the cost of one "copper" in your deck).

[SirPeebles]

Almost strictly better than Cache (edge cases ahoy), and lets EVERYTHING be cache? Maybe it should give +$2 when you buy it and be worth +$0 normally.

I am interested in your reasoning as to why a card that gives you an effective Gold for the rest of the game (at the cost of two Coppers in your deck) is almost strictly worse than a card which gives you a one-shot Bridge effect on this turn only (at the cost of one "copper" in your deck).

When you have $5, buy a Credit and Gold rather than a Cache.  That way you spend $5 on the equivalent of Gold+Copper rather than on Gold+Copper+Copper.

[enfynet]

Maybe "When you play this, gain a Copper" to put it on-par with Cache? (Well slightly worse, since you get the Copper every time you play it.)

[Davio]

Maybe "When you play this, gain a Copper" to put it on-par with Cache? (Well slightly worse, since you get the Copper every time you play it.)

I don't know, I like the idea of the card a lot, but the details are still up for debate.

Cache is certainly an issue, but this won't show up with Cache all too often. The "it's strictly better" clause may be a reason to modify it, still not sure...

[Kirian]

"While this is in play, you may not buy a Treasure."

[SirPeebles]

"While this is in play, you may not buy a Treasure."

This would also get rid of the need for the awkward "you may only buy one per turn" clause.

[eHalcyon]

"While this is in play, you may not buy a Treasure."

This would also get rid of the need for the awkward "you may only buy one per turn" clause.

Also kind of interesting in GM games.

[One Armed Man]

I vote on 0 and 1 if it has to be a Treasure.

I have included this idea as a "one card" kingdom pile in the Filling out the Box thread: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4758.0

Subterfuge
$5 [no-type]
When you would gain this, you may gain a Curse. If you gain a Curse, +$6, +1Buy. This card remains in the supply.

That version didn't have the "one per turn" rule, but it gave you a curse instead of a copper. If it had to be a gained kingdom card, I would make it an Action +$1.

Credit Card- $1
Action
+$1
+1 Buy
-----------
When you buy this, you may play it immediately.
If you do, +$1.

You may only buy one copy of Credit per turn.

[Asper]

$ 1
--------------------
While this is in play, you may not buy a Treasure.
--------------------
When you buy this, + 1 $, + 1 buy, and play this immediately.

Cost 1

I like this idea, the no-treasure punishment will make it strictly un-better then cache and will also have an effect later on when you draw it again.

[Polatrite]

I like the card a lot. I don't see any problems in relation to Cache - the chance of these two cards showing up together is slim in the first place, and cards shouldn't be designed strictly based on a combo with a single unique card.

It would be one thing if this comboed with Villages in such a way that no other Treasure card were worth buying - obviously that makes no sense in this context, but the point is that the Village mechanic of +2 actions and +1 card is extremely common, whereas the mechanic of Cache is exactly unique. Therefore don't design specifically around that one pairing.

That said, cost of $1 on this card has interesting implications with TfB in the midgame. It's a Copper that you can Remake into a Haven, Pawn or Estate. That's an interesting usage because you can use it very early to leapfrog into good stuff, then get rid of it for a benefit in the midgame.

I love that you can hit $5 no matter what your draw, however a real danger is actually hitting $6 on the 5/2 split. Try playing with a 6 Copper/1 Silver/3 Estate start one time and you'll see what I mean. Starting with a Gold is REALLY strong, and so is something like Border Village + Torturer/Mountebank or similar. If I picked one concern with the card, it'd be the 6/2 start. Everything else seems completely fine.

[Drab Emordnilap]

I like the card a lot. I don't see any problems in relation to Cache - the chance of these two cards showing up together is slim in the first place, and cards shouldn't be designed strictly based on a combo with a single unique card.

It would be one thing if this comboed with Villages in such a way that no other Treasure card were worth buying - obviously that makes no sense in this context, but the point is that the Village mechanic of +2 actions and +1 card is extremely common, whereas the mechanic of Cache is exactly unique. Therefore don't design specifically around that one pairing.

I don't think you understand the issue re: Cache. The problem wasn't that you would use it to buy Cache, the problem was that you could use it to simulate Cache (by buying it and then a gold) but with only half the penalty Cache has.

[enfynet]

And that is the 6/2 start he mentioned. I like the idea but it needs to balance itself more.

[SirPeebles]

I like the card a lot. I don't see any problems in relation to Cache - the chance of these two cards showing up together is slim in the first place, and cards shouldn't be designed strictly based on a combo with a single unique card.

It would be one thing if this comboed with Villages in such a way that no other Treasure card were worth buying - obviously that makes no sense in this context, but the point is that the Village mechanic of +2 actions and +1 card is extremely common, whereas the mechanic of Cache is exactly unique. Therefore don't design specifically around that one pairing.

I don't think you understand the issue re: Cache. The problem wasn't that you would use it to buy Cache, the problem was that you could use it to simulate Cache (by buying it and then a gold) but with only half the penalty Cache has.

Cache is a pretty good buy over Credit if the Gold and Copper piles are both empty.

[Asper]

Credit
$ 1
--------------------
While this is in play, you may not buy a Treasure.
--------------------
When you buy this, + 1 $, + 1 buy, and play this immediately.
Cost 1 $

I already mentioned you could do it this way, but i guess nobody read this...?

Cache is a pretty good buy over Credit if the Gold and Copper piles are both empty.

I don't actually recall this ever happening to me... That's like saying Woodcutter is actually better than Mountebank if both the Curse and Copper Piles are empty. Of course it is. The problem is not the conclusion, it's the premise.

[eHalcyon]

Credit
$ 1
--------------------
While this is in play, you may not buy a Treasure.
--------------------
When you buy this, + 1 $, + 1 buy, and play this immediately.
Cost 1$

Did i mention you could do it this way? If i did... Where's the problem with a credit that does not allow to buy a Gold?

Cache is a pretty good buy over Credit if the Gold and Copper piles are both empty.

I don't actually recall this ever happening to me. That's like saying Woodcutter was actually better than Mountebank if both the Curse and Copper Piles are empty.

Kirian suggested it first in this thread, and then everyone agreed that it would probably work well that way.

[Asper]

Kirian suggested it first in this thread, and then everyone agreed that it would probably work well that way.

Yeah, i know, i just put the card together from what he said. I didn't miss he was the first one to suggest it, just had the feeling his solution was widely ignored. I shouldn't have said "I", i guess, that was pretty dumb. 

[ahyangyi]

$ 1
--------------------
While this is in play, you may not buy a Treasure.
--------------------
When you buy this, + 1 $, + 1 buy, and play this immediately.

Cost 1

I like this idea, the no-treasure punishment will make it strictly un-better then cache and will also have an effect later on when you draw it again.

Amazing, so it doesn't have the problem of being strictly better than cache, and makes 6/2 opening much less of an issue. (a Goon is the best $6 opening buy except Gold, but the penalty should drag it to the same level as an early Militia)
It also gets rid of the "you may not buy more than one each turn" clause elegantly.

Makes garden decks even stronger. But it's a feature, not a bug.