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[chwhite]

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201109/16/game-20110916-211851-23e28f70.html

Just finished this game.  Not the most interesting match (heavy-duty Conspirator vs. light-duty Conspirator with money), except perhaps for my two Outpost turns.  First one was a total whiff, and is a good example of why Outpost is normally crap.

Second one, I thought was a total whiff for a second, then I stopped being silly and realized how lucky (in an amusing and unexpected way) it actually was. 

[Thisisnotasmile]

Haha. I probably wouldn't have even noticed that. I love King's Courts too much to trash them, even for benefit. People always talk about Ramking/Upgrading $7 cost cards into Provinces in the late game and I always think to myself "It might work but the lieklyhood is you'll get more benefit out of playing the $7 cost card". I guess this was one of those situations where I was wrong. I will keep my eye open for this a bit more in the future!

[guided]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: People who think Outpost is crap don't understand Outpost Is either Wharf (with +actions) or Caravan (alone) available? Outpost is probably good. Is it remotely conceivable that an even barely-functional double-Tactician engine could be built? Outpost is probably good. How about Menagerie? Minion? Sure, don't buy it if you have a deck where a 3-card hand isn't likely to go anywhere. But man, believe me, it is just obscenely great in Wharf engines and double-Tactician decks, and it's pretty good in a lot of other circumstances too. Like, would you enjoy having two full turns during the endgame for each turn your opponent gets (assuming they don't follow along)? Outpost may be for you!

I gain Outpost more than a quarter of the time, with a positive "effect with". It's not even in the top 10 most situational cards.

[chwhite]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: People who think Outpost is crap don't understand Outpost Is either Wharf (with +actions) or Caravan (alone) available? Outpost is probably good. Is it remotely conceivable that an even barely-functional double-Tactician engine could be built? Outpost is probably good. How about Menagerie? Minion? Sure, don't buy it if you have a deck where a 3-card hand isn't likely to go anywhere. But man, believe me, it is just obscenely great in Wharf engines and double-Tactician decks, and it's pretty good in a lot of other circumstances too. Like, would you enjoy having two full turns during the endgame for each turn your opponent gets (assuming they don't follow along)? Outpost may be for you!

I gain Outpost more than a quarter of the time, with a positive "effect with". It's not even in the top 10 most situational cards.

Yah, my opinion of Outpost is definitely higher than it used to be.  Buying it 25 percent of the time still seems a bit high, but much closer to the truth than my previous opinion of "maybe useful 5 percent of the time, only with mass Minion or double-Tactician".  I really doubt that Caravan is good enough support for Outpost, but I agree with you otherwise, and would also add Alchemists and probably Level 2 Cities.

I'd be willing to bet that most high-level players have a positive Effect With for Outpost.  Good players realize it's usually a waste; great players realize it's occasionally amazing, and are also able to build the sorts of engines that can actually use Outpost.

[DG]

Looking back at my outpost games they are quite fun. I'm guessing that Theory isn't saving this one up as an example game for beginners. Forget alchemists and minions, you should clearly use outposts with wishing wells! http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110614-080447-c26b7cf3.html. He'll perhaps appreciate his outpost and explorer combination a bit more http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110106-174645-c00fc5f4.html.

[guided]

I really doubt that Caravan is good enough support for Outpost, but I agree with you otherwise, and would also add Alchemists and probably Level 2 Cities.

Think about it this way. Doubling your endgame turns is really, really good. If a Caravan stack with Outpost lets you do that, then you can pile up a Caravan stack even if it might not have been a good idea without Outpost.

[chwhite]

I really doubt that Caravan is good enough support for Outpost, but I agree with you otherwise, and would also add Alchemists and probably Level 2 Cities.

Think about it this way. Doubling your endgame turns is really, really good. If a Caravan stack with Outpost lets you do that, then you can pile up a Caravan stack even if it might not have been a good idea without Outpost.

I agree that doubling your endgame turns is really good.  I just think that a Caravan stack with Outpost is highly unlikely to be powerful and/or consistent enough to actually do that.

[meshuggah42]

Outpost can lead to ridiculous turns when you have 5+ alchemists.

See one of my previous games (originally posted in the Dear My Opponent: I'm sorry topic):

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201109/09/game-20110909-012856-e09e8c4d.html