Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[neoeinstein]

Here's the game log on councilroom: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20130128-184420-fcd51d2b.html

I had an interesting (to me) game on Isotropic last night. Not sure how to analyze it properly to even determine if I played this alright. I ended up winning, but I'm wondering if it was more of a fluke. I have a feeling that I ended up the beneficiary of an Ambassador-induced slog more than having a winning strategy. The game ended on Provinces, though it was also the third pile (Duchy and Estates preceded Provinces).

I started off with a Monument / Ambassador opening, choosing the Ambassador after seeing one of the other players open with one and not wanting to be on the wrong side of the Ambassador battle.

In turn 3, my opening buys collided, and I started down the Monument path. Later in turn 8, I would make a similar decision to forego the use of the Ambassador. As such, I began soaking up some Coppers and Estates since I wasn't Ambassador-ing them back much. I ended up playing Ambassador 4 times overall compared to 12 plays of Monuments.

In turn 11, I was able to hit a lucky Horse Traders reaction draw and bought a Province. I still didn't diverge from the idea that I could still Monument up for some VP. In turn 18, a Tribute hit gave me the coin for a second province, but after my Province buy in turn 21, I realized I wasn't going to be getting back to the Provinces and began going for the other VP piles.

Part of that included switching to Gardens, which were getting close to worth 4 VP each and so made a more attractive buy than Duchy. For the remainder of the game, I would focus on gaining Gardens when I hit $4, Great Hall as I hit $3, and Estate when I hit $2. In the last turn, I drew Ambassador, Great Hall, Venture and 2 Estates. Great Hall pulled up an Outpost, which allowed me to grab a Copper. Then in the Outpost turn I came up lucky with a Copper and Gold, grabbing a 5th Gardens (also my 50th card and giving me +9 points and pulling me clear of being caught if Cai bought the final Province).

On the board, the only source of +Buy was Horse Traders, and Tribute provided the only +Extra Action, but is inconsistent and with the excess of Copper was likely to be a terminal. Outpost ended up being important in the end since it gave me a way to get an extra action for Monument and an extra buy when I started to fatten up for Gardens. In all, I ended up with 21 Victory cards and 11 Coppers out of 50 cards.

[lespeutere]

I'm not too familiar with 3player games.
I would've opened horse traders/silver, skipped ambassador and let the other players give me lots of cards to bump up gardens to even more than 5 points. You played amb 4 times only and put 6 cards back. These 6 cards + cards you can buy with horse traders' +buy should've been enough to get you to 60 cards.
I don't like venture at all since you get coppers from your opponents.
So I'd get some horse traders, some monuments, some silvers and then go gardens and see if I can grab some duchies.

[kn1tt3r]

I'd also assume that in multiplayer games Horse Traders would be a perfect answer to two opponents going for Ambassador, especially in a Gardens game (maybe even without, but I'm not sure). So, basically what lespeutere said.

Ok, you open with $4, so you don't see what the other players are going to do, but well, you can always change plans and transition into a more Monument or Courtyard heavy BM game and go primarily for Provinces.

[Forge!!!]

You buy so many terminals early - 6 out of your first 7 turns (turn #7 including the outpost turn) are terminal buys. That's too many terminals. And they don't do anything cohesive, you clearly don't really have a strategy. You want to have a general overall strategy before beginning. You said you bought an ambassador because you didn't want to lose the ambassador war, which is generally true - but why? What were you going to do with your thinner deck? These are the things you need to start thinking about very early on (or before) the game.

If you look at the board, like others mentioned, you'll notice that with ambassador, horse traders, etc., this is a great board for Gardens. You want to recognize this right away, recognize the cards that will help you on your quest for a good Gardens deck, and go from there. Instead, you just sort of buy different cards and meander your way through until you realize that Gardens might be a good idea.

[KingsSkort]

I'm not too familiar with 3player games.
I would've opened horse traders/silver, skipped ambassador and let the other players give me lots of cards to bump up gardens to even more than 5 points. You played amb 4 times only and put 6 cards back. These 6 cards + cards you can buy with horse traders' +buy should've been enough to get you to 60 cards.
I don't like venture at all since you get coppers from your opponents.
So I'd get some horse traders, some monuments, some silvers and then go gardens and see if I can grab some duchies.

Are monuments a good addition? HT gives you draw when someone plays an amb, probably gives you more econ than monument in a messy deck, and the extra buy is likely worth almost as much as the VP chip.

[neoeinstein]

You buy so many terminals early - 6 out of your first 7 turns (turn #7 including the outpost turn) are terminal buys. That's too many terminals. And they don't do anything cohesive, you clearly don't really have a strategy. You want to have a general overall strategy before beginning. You said you bought an ambassador because you didn't want to lose the ambassador war, which is generally true - but why? What were you going to do with your thinner deck? These are the things you need to start thinking about very early on (or before) the game.

If you look at the board, like others mentioned, you'll notice that with ambassador, horse traders, etc., this is a great board for Gardens. You want to recognize this right away, recognize the cards that will help you on your quest for a good Gardens deck, and go from there. Instead, you just sort of buy different cards and meander your way through until you realize that Gardens might be a good idea.

Definitely was too heavy on terminals. I got drawn in by the Ambassador since I have seen it be so dominant instead of recognizing how I could turn my opponents' use to my advantage. I had seen the Gardens, but didn't recognize the utility of Horse Traders until later on. In several of the later turns, I was colliding terminals with a green hand, which was making it clear I hadn't started out right. Over-buying actions is a current vice of mine.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. I really felt I stumbled into a win and missed a better strategy and this thread has helped expose what I was missing.

[DG]

There are some three player specific mechanics here. If one player goes for gardens and the other two try ambassador/venture then I guess the ambassador players hinder each other passing copper while the gardens player carries on regardless. If two players try for gardens then there will probably be a quickish finish on gardens, great halls, and estates without the time for the ambassador player to score heavily with ventures and provinces.

[sudgy]

I've had all the estate, duchies, and provinces run out before.  It was an interesting game, we just started to grab them because there were barely any provinces left and they all ran out.

[clb]

Your opponents stalled out pretty hard, which I think gave you extra time to pull your Gardens approach together. 31 turns is a long time for 3p.  On this board, I agree that Gardens is strong, but if both other players go for Courtyard -BM with a focus on Provinces (avoiding Duchies unless necessary) then the game ends much more quickly and you are in trouble if you play the Gardens as a slog. If you play them as a rush and then gague the scores before threatening the third pile, you should be in a good position. You need to be mindful of the value of your Gardens and the number of Provinces bought by each player.
HT does a lot to help you grab Duchies as the third pile (instead of Estates) and still continue to pick up free coppers.