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Author Topic: Armory on a Possession turn  (Read 2051 times)

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  • Margrave
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Armory on a Possession turn
« on: January 29, 2013, 08:57:34 am »
0

Nothing gets topdecked right? The possessed player plays armory, choose a card. The possessing player then gains it instead, and Armory has lost track, so cannot top-deck it.

If so, then fun fact, we have three cards which are functionally identical to Workshop when played while being possessed.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

GendoIkari

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Re: Armory on a Possession turn
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 09:20:01 am »
+6

Nothing gets topdecked right? The possessed player plays armory, choose a card. The possessing player then gains it instead, and Armory has lost track, so cannot top-deck it.

If so, then fun fact, we have three cards which are functionally identical to Workshop when played while being possessed.

Correct conclusion, wrong reasoning!

Lose-track has absolutely nothing to do with this. Here's what happens:

-Player being possessed plays Armory, and chooses a card to gain.
-Before he gains that card, Possession's "would gain" clause kicks in.
-Instead of Armory gaining a card to the top of your deck, Possession causes the possessor to gain the card.
-The gain that Possession just caused is a normal gain like any other... goes to your discard. The special gain that would have gone on top of the deck has been replaced completely with a normal gain.

This is the same thing with revealing Trader in response to gaining a Curse from Torturer. You will gain a Silver instead of the Curse, but it will go to your discard instead of your hand, because Trader has replaced the "Gain a Curse to your hand" with "Gain a Silver".
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Re: Armory on a Possession turn
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 09:29:41 am »
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Ah, I had misremember Armory's text (Thought it was 'Gain a card costing up to $4. Put it on top of your deck' - similar to IW, in which case I believe it would be lose track).
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

GendoIkari

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Re: Armory on a Possession turn
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 09:41:42 am »
+1

Ah, I had misremember Armory's text (Thought it was 'Gain a card costing up to $4. Put it on top of your deck' - similar to IW, in which case I believe it would be lose track).

Interesting point... I suppose if a card did say "Gain a card. Put it on top of your deck" then this would have different rules implications than "Gain a card, putting it on top of your deck." The first thing is 2 separate instructions, so Trader/Possession replace only the first instruction, whereas the second is all 1 instruction, so Trader/Possession replace the whole thing. Although the outcome would be the same in either case, because "Put it on top of your deck" would fail in either case, because "it" refers to "the card you gained", which no longer exists.
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aaron0013

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Re: Armory on a Possession turn
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2013, 05:17:34 pm »
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Could someone please direct me to an official definition of the lose track rule? I seem to have missed out on that.
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Re: Armory on a Possession turn
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2013, 05:38:40 pm »
+2

From the Dark Ages rulebook:

Quote
In rare circumstances an effect may try to move a card that is not where that effect expects the card
to be. In those cases the card does not move - the effect has "lost track" of the card. Losing track of
a card prevents it from being moved, but does not stop anything else from happening. For example,
if you Procession a Madman, Procession first puts Madman in play; then you resolve Madman,
getting +2 Actions and drawing cards and returning Madman to the Madman pile; then Procession
fails to put Madman into play again, because Procession expects to find Madman in play, but it is
not there, it's in the Madman pile; then you resolve Madman again, only getting +2 Actions this
time, since it says "if you do" before the card-drawing, and you did not actually return it to the
Madman pile this time; then Procession fails to trash Madman since Procession again expects to find
Madman in play and it is not there; and then you gain an Action costing [1 coin] if you can. Cards do not
lose track of cards that they move, only cards that other cards move. For example when Procession
puts Madman into play, that does not cause Procession to lose track of Madman; it is Madman
moving itself that causes Procession to lose track of it. Things lose track of a card if something moves
it, if it is the top card of a deck and gets covered up, or if it is the top card of a discard pile and gets
covered up.

All the Dominion rulebooks are on the Rio Grande Games website linked from the respective game pages.
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