Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 12  All

Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 5/5)  (Read 124987 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Powerman

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 766
  • Respect: +605
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 3/5)
« Reply #175 on: February 15, 2013, 11:11:51 pm »
+1

My argument.

I don't know if the ranking is correct, but you're clearly underselling Salvager. Especially the difference between getting a 5 versus a 4 and a 3, which is going to be huge in a lot of games. Salvager's other main advantage over Remodel is of course the flexibility of spending that coin in whatever way you like, which I find makes it combo more effectively with most gainers. Salvager gives you options in hands that otherwise might be limited. It allows you to squeeze out all the coin value of your deck, and recoup your early spending.

You also mention that it can be useless in the middle of the game, which is true, but Salvager has the effect of shortening the middle part of a game.

I know I do underestimate it a touch.  I have it 2 ranks ahead of Scout, which is slightly too low.  But, I really cannot see how this card is better than Spice Merchant or Moneylender for single card trashing.
Logged
A man on a mission.

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 3/5)
« Reply #176 on: February 15, 2013, 11:13:04 pm »
+5

I know I do underestimate it a touch.  I have it 2 ranks ahead of Scout, which is slightly too low.

...
Logged

michaeljb

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1422
  • Shuffle iT Username: michaeljb
  • Respect: +2113
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 3/5)
« Reply #177 on: February 15, 2013, 11:29:26 pm »
+3

Someone ranked Worker's Village #1? o_0
Logged
🚂 Give 18xx games a chance 🚂

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 3/5)
« Reply #178 on: February 15, 2013, 11:46:52 pm »
+1

Why is TR so high? It isn't KC people. I agree with Conspirator. I think SR maybe should be a little higher. I also feel Ironmonger isn't high enough. I'm not sure where I ranked it, but I'm certain it made my top 10. It is a pretty strong card.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 3/5)
« Reply #179 on: February 16, 2013, 12:04:58 am »
+1

So Marauder is the only DA card that made it to the top 11... I wonder how it got ranked compared to Sea Hag...
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 3/5)
« Reply #180 on: February 16, 2013, 02:04:07 am »
+1

But, I really cannot see how this card is better than Spice Merchant or Moneylender for single card trashing.
It is worse than Spice Merchant or Moneylender for single card trashing usually, but the thing is that Salvager does more than just single card trashing. And even Salvager + Estate is better single card thrashing than SM or Moneylender + Copper, because trashing an Estate is better than trashing a Copper and because +$2, +buy is better than +$2 or -$1, +2 cards, +1 Action.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3388
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 3/5)
« Reply #181 on: February 16, 2013, 02:41:20 am »
+3

Conspirator and throne room are overrated. Not massively so, but so. Salvager I think is a touch overrated. Vaguely happy with the rest. We should have seen Ironworks by now, though.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

michaeljb

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1422
  • Shuffle iT Username: michaeljb
  • Respect: +2113
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 3/5)
« Reply #182 on: February 16, 2013, 03:24:40 am »
+2

We should have seen Ironworks by now, though.

It was 37th.

You had me real worried for a minute there :P
Logged
🚂 Give 18xx games a chance 🚂

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #183 on: February 16, 2013, 09:28:12 am »
+2

Salvager, I don't know if it's 'way too high', but it seems a bit high here. But in response to
But, I really cannot see how this card is better than Spice Merchant or Moneylender for single card trashing.
If you're looking at it to trash down, you're doing it wrong. That's not the primary purpose of the card. Somehow people have also missed one of the purposes of the card, which is to give +buy. Well, you may say that remodel increases the value of your deck more, and this CAN be true, but being able to have the flexibility to use that money ANYWHERE and split it up amongst different cards, pooled along with the other money you're producing, is what usually makes it better than remodel. Enough better to justify this big a gap? I'd say probably not, but better.
Well that and that 5>3+4 a lot of the time in dominion, and nothing>2 most of the time.

As for other things: Death Cart, I haven't played with it much, but it's got to be way high here, but you know that's somewhat on me - I rated it even a good bit higher than this (what was I thinking?). I think Wandering Minstrel is a bit low, yeah that's old, but what I really don't understand is how throne room is the best village here. I mean really? It's decent, but there's a lot of times you actually want regular old village over it, which is definitely not something you can say of the others. Finally, conspirator. Well, it has more upside than the other cards here, but so often it's a bit dicey. I mean, it is so good if activated, and so bad otherwise. You want to have it in a big engine, but the more conspirators you have, the less likely that engine fires. It's good, but I think I'd have it a bit lower.

Powerman

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 766
  • Respect: +605
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #184 on: February 16, 2013, 11:25:05 am »
+1

Salvager, I don't know if it's 'way too high', but it seems a bit high here. But in response to
But, I really cannot see how this card is better than Spice Merchant or Moneylender for single card trashing.
If you're looking at it to trash down, you're doing it wrong. That's not the primary purpose of the card. Somehow people have also missed one of the purposes of the card, which is to give +buy. Well, you may say that remodel increases the value of your deck more, and this CAN be true, but being able to have the flexibility to use that money ANYWHERE and split it up amongst different cards, pooled along with the other money you're producing, is what usually makes it better than remodel. Enough better to justify this big a gap? I'd say probably not, but better.
Well that and that 5>3+4 a lot of the time in dominion, and nothing>2 most of the time.

It gives plus buy, yes, but it can't help you increase your deck size by more than one.  So, it's kind of a faux plus buy.  So, it's one of the worst "plus buy" cards in the game... I think in terms of just plus buy in a vacuum I'd rather have woodcutter, but that might just be me.

And if getting to 5 is that important turn 3/4, you have better odds of getting to 5 with silver.  I'm not going to calculate the odds, but getting Salvager/CCCC means getting a silver instead of a gold or 5.  And unlike Baron, you cannot gain more early game economy via Baron/EEEC or something.  And I'd argue that wanting 5's is not a slam dunk.  Sure, there are more power 5's than power 3 and 4s.  But many village are 3 and 4.  There are quite a few good Cantrip+'s at 3 and 4.  Some draw is at 3 and 4.  If witch is on the board?  Don't open remodel... but you probably shouldn't open Salvager either.

In terms of end game acceleration, sure you'll have a hand of Witch/Salvager/Copper/Copper/Copper where you can get a Province here but not with Remodel... But on the other hand, you'll have hands like Duchy/Province/Remodel/Gold/Province where Remodel is better.  I'm not going to say which is more likely, it all depends on deck composition.  But, they are very very similar for any end game plays.
Logged
A man on a mission.

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #185 on: February 16, 2013, 11:58:12 am »
+1

Salvager, I don't know if it's 'way too high', but it seems a bit high here. But in response to
But, I really cannot see how this card is better than Spice Merchant or Moneylender for single card trashing.
If you're looking at it to trash down, you're doing it wrong. That's not the primary purpose of the card. Somehow people have also missed one of the purposes of the card, which is to give +buy. Well, you may say that remodel increases the value of your deck more, and this CAN be true, but being able to have the flexibility to use that money ANYWHERE and split it up amongst different cards, pooled along with the other money you're producing, is what usually makes it better than remodel. Enough better to justify this big a gap? I'd say probably not, but better.
Well that and that 5>3+4 a lot of the time in dominion, and nothing>2 most of the time.

It gives plus buy, yes, but it can't help you increase your deck size by more than one.  So, it's kind of a faux plus buy.  So, it's one of the worst "plus buy" cards in the game... I think in terms of just plus buy in a vacuum I'd rather have woodcutter, but that might just be me.
You're still missing the point. +buy is not at all about increasing your deck size (yeah, except edge cases like gardens), it's about being able to buy multiple important cards at once.

Quote
And if getting to 5 is that important turn 3/4, you have better odds of getting to 5 with silver.
Absolutely, but the game lasts more than that long, and a tiny bit of trashing can often help a god deal. See masquerade[/quote]
I'm not going to calculate the odds, but getting Salvager/CCCC means getting a silver instead of a gold or 5.  And unlike Baron, you cannot gain more early game economy via Baron/EEEC or something.  And I'd argue that wanting 5's is not a slam dunk.  Sure, there are more power 5's than power 3 and 4s.  But many village are 3 and 4.  There are quite a few good Cantrip+'s at 3 and 4.  Some draw is at 3 and 4.  If witch is on the board?  Don't open remodel... but you probably shouldn't open Salvager either.[/quote] Well, but you actually want salvager decently often here. In terms of 5s vs 3s and 4s - yes, sometimes a 3 and a 4 is better than a 5, so it's not 'a slam dunk'; but most often, 5>3+4.

Quote
In terms of end game acceleration, sure you'll have a hand of Witch/Salvager/Copper/Copper/Copper where you can get a Province here but not with Remodel... But on the other hand, you'll have hands like Duchy/Province/Remodel/Gold/Province where Remodel is better.  I'm not going to say which is more likely, it all depends on deck composition.  But, they are very very similar for any end game plays.
No, they aren't, and I'll tell you which one happens more - the former, which salvager excels in. It's not just something you can throw your hands up and say, well there's situations for both, ergo they're equal. I mean, sometimes copper is better than silver, but....

Powerman

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 766
  • Respect: +605
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #186 on: February 16, 2013, 12:27:13 pm »
0

Salvager, I don't know if it's 'way too high', but it seems a bit high here. But in response to
But, I really cannot see how this card is better than Spice Merchant or Moneylender for single card trashing.
If you're looking at it to trash down, you're doing it wrong. That's not the primary purpose of the card. Somehow people have also missed one of the purposes of the card, which is to give +buy. Well, you may say that remodel increases the value of your deck more, and this CAN be true, but being able to have the flexibility to use that money ANYWHERE and split it up amongst different cards, pooled along with the other money you're producing, is what usually makes it better than remodel. Enough better to justify this big a gap? I'd say probably not, but better.
Well that and that 5>3+4 a lot of the time in dominion, and nothing>2 most of the time.

It gives plus buy, yes, but it can't help you increase your deck size by more than one.  So, it's kind of a faux plus buy.  So, it's one of the worst "plus buy" cards in the game... I think in terms of just plus buy in a vacuum I'd rather have woodcutter, but that might just be me.
You're still missing the point. +buy is not at all about increasing your deck size (yeah, except edge cases like gardens), it's about being able to buy multiple important cards at once.
I understand that you want +Buy to get two labs, or two provinces or whatever you want... but in terms of +Buy, is it really better than Woodcutter, the second worst $3 card?  +Buy really isn't all that rare, and while if Salvager is the only one on the board, sure it's nice, but I'd imagine more than half of Salvager boards have another +Buy card.

Quote
Quote
And if getting to 5 is that important turn 3/4, you have better odds of getting to 5 with silver.
Absolutely, but the game lasts more than that long, and a tiny bit of trashing can often help a god deal. See masquerade
I don't think masquerade and salvager are all that similar.  Maybe they are?  But in terms of opening power, Masq/Silver is stronger than any salvager opener.

Quote
Quote
I'm not going to calculate the odds, but getting Salvager/CCCC means getting a silver instead of a gold or 5.  And unlike Baron, you cannot gain more early game economy via Baron/EEEC or something.  And I'd argue that wanting 5's is not a slam dunk.  Sure, there are more power 5's than power 3 and 4s.  But many village are 3 and 4.  There are quite a few good Cantrip+'s at 3 and 4.  Some draw is at 3 and 4.  If witch is on the board?  Don't open remodel... but you probably shouldn't open Salvager either.
Well, but you actually want salvager decently often here. In terms of 5s vs 3s and 4s - yes, sometimes a 3 and a 4 is better than a 5, so it's not 'a slam dunk'; but most often, 5>3+4.
Most often, yes.  What 5's exactly do you think merit a Salvager opening?

Quote
Quote
In terms of end game acceleration, sure you'll have a hand of Witch/Salvager/Copper/Copper/Copper where you can get a Province here but not with Remodel... But on the other hand, you'll have hands like Duchy/Province/Remodel/Gold/Province where Remodel is better.  I'm not going to say which is more likely, it all depends on deck composition.  But, they are very very similar for any end game plays.
No, they aren't, and I'll tell you which one happens more - the former, which salvager excels in. It's not just something you can throw your hands up and say, well there's situations for both, ergo they're equal. I mean, sometimes copper is better than silver, but....
Do you have any proof of this?  Maybe in straight 5 card BM games, yes, but in game with attacks I think it swings more towards remodel.  Almost all attacks would seem to lower the chance of having Salvager + $5 card + $3 in your other cards.  And that's the main case where Salvager > Remodel.  Remodel + Gold doesn't need anything else to get a province.  Salvager + a card requires something else in hand.
Logged
A man on a mission.

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1709
  • Respect: +4329
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #187 on: February 16, 2013, 01:02:47 pm »
0

Here are some of the 5's that I think encourage Salvager openings:
IGG, Hunting Party, Stables, Governor, Laboratory, Mountebank, Minion, Wharf (if there's villages), Highway, Treasury, Tactician, Haggler, Jester, Bazaar, Market, Festival, Cartographer, HoP, Duke (replacing estate with copper here is nice).

Some of those work better than others, but that's a lot of the power 5's.

Sometimes it's worth it in Ghost Ship and Margrave games just to remove a little bit of junk.

Salvager loves non-terminals, and it's still decent in money decks with terminal cash like Merchant Ship. It isn't great with terminal draw unless there's villages.

One time Salvager/Vault did this for me: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120405-160451-3ec072ae.html
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #188 on: February 16, 2013, 01:04:54 pm »
0

Salvager, I don't know if it's 'way too high', but it seems a bit high here. But in response to
But, I really cannot see how this card is better than Spice Merchant or Moneylender for single card trashing.
If you're looking at it to trash down, you're doing it wrong. That's not the primary purpose of the card. Somehow people have also missed one of the purposes of the card, which is to give +buy. Well, you may say that remodel increases the value of your deck more, and this CAN be true, but being able to have the flexibility to use that money ANYWHERE and split it up amongst different cards, pooled along with the other money you're producing, is what usually makes it better than remodel. Enough better to justify this big a gap? I'd say probably not, but better.
Well that and that 5>3+4 a lot of the time in dominion, and nothing>2 most of the time.

It gives plus buy, yes, but it can't help you increase your deck size by more than one.  So, it's kind of a faux plus buy.  So, it's one of the worst "plus buy" cards in the game... I think in terms of just plus buy in a vacuum I'd rather have woodcutter, but that might just be me.
You're still missing the point. +buy is not at all about increasing your deck size (yeah, except edge cases like gardens), it's about being able to buy multiple important cards at once.
I understand that you want +Buy to get two labs, or two provinces or whatever you want... but in terms of +Buy, is it really better than Woodcutter, the second worst $3 card?  +Buy really isn't all that rare, and while if Salvager is the only one on the board, sure it's nice, but I'd imagine more than half of Salvager boards have another +Buy card.
I honestly don't know what you mean by 'in terms of +Buy, is it really better than Woodcutter' (which I hold isn't the 2nd worst 3-cost also, but anyway...). Does it give +buy any better? No, they both give one extra buy. Ultimately you have to evaluate the cards as a whole, and as a whole, yes, it really is that much  better card than woodcutter.

Quote
Quote
Quote
And if getting to 5 is that important turn 3/4, you have better odds of getting to 5 with silver.
Absolutely, but the game lasts more than that long, and a tiny bit of trashing can often help a god deal. See masquerade
I don't think masquerade and salvager are all that similar.  Maybe they are?  But in terms of opening power, Masq/Silver is stronger than any salvager opener.
They are very different cards. But the little amount of trashing masquerade gives is what makes it a strong card, compared to say moat. Ad the little bit of trashing is also what makes salvager strong. They're also both utility cards, doing a couple different things for you. Obviously masq is much better in general.

Quote
Quote
Quote
I'm not going to calculate the odds, but getting Salvager/CCCC means getting a silver instead of a gold or 5.  And unlike Baron, you cannot gain more early game economy via Baron/EEEC or something.  And I'd argue that wanting 5's is not a slam dunk.  Sure, there are more power 5's than power 3 and 4s.  But many village are 3 and 4.  There are quite a few good Cantrip+'s at 3 and 4.  Some draw is at 3 and 4.  If witch is on the board?  Don't open remodel... but you probably shouldn't open Salvager either.
Well, but you actually want salvager decently often here. In terms of 5s vs 3s and 4s - yes, sometimes a 3 and a 4 is better than a 5, so it's not 'a slam dunk'; but most often, 5>3+4.
Most often, yes.  What 5's exactly do you think merit a Salvager opening?
Almost all of them? I mean, the null position is to open salvager instead of something like silver or remodel. There are some cards I'd want more than salvager there, sure. And there are some 3s and 4s that would swing me to remodel - it's not so much about the 5s. But Hunting party and lab and stables types are probably the MOST favorable to salvager.

Quote
Quote
Quote
In terms of end game acceleration, sure you'll have a hand of Witch/Salvager/Copper/Copper/Copper where you can get a Province here but not with Remodel... But on the other hand, you'll have hands like Duchy/Province/Remodel/Gold/Province where Remodel is better.  I'm not going to say which is more likely, it all depends on deck composition.  But, they are very very similar for any end game plays.
No, they aren't, and I'll tell you which one happens more - the former, which salvager excels in. It's not just something you can throw your hands up and say, well there's situations for both, ergo they're equal. I mean, sometimes copper is better than silver, but....
Do you have any proof of this?  Maybe in straight 5 card BM games, yes, but in game with attacks I think it swings more towards remodel.  Almost all attacks would seem to lower the chance of having Salvager + $5 card + $3 in your other cards.  And that's the main case where Salvager > Remodel.  Remodel + Gold doesn't need anything else to get a province.  Salvager + a card requires something else in hand.
I don't have proof of this, no, just my experience. I mean, if you're playing games where you end up with 3 card hands every turn, you don't really want either one - and more likely you've played it wrong and it absolutely doesn't matter. But where I'm getting hit by a billion handsize attacks, I'm usually playing a big engine, and I find in these situations I *usually* would rather have salvager. Now, it's not an all the time, or even almost all the time kind of thing - maybe 2-1?

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3388
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 3/5)
« Reply #189 on: February 16, 2013, 01:38:11 pm »
0

We should have seen Ironworks by now, though.

It was 37th.

You had me real worried for a minute there :P

In that case, it wasn't ranked highly enough! :)
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3388
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #190 on: February 16, 2013, 01:46:53 pm »
0

Definitely agree with WW on Salvager. Really, it's kind of a weaker Masquerade. Masq gives you some trashing, while still allowing you to hit $5 and even $6 with relative ease (it also mildly attacks your opponents, counters their attacks, and combos brutally with other attacks, which is why it's so much better than a lot of other cards). Salvager also gives you some trashing, and helps you hit $5 and $6 without too much of a problem (it exchanges card draw for virtual coin). And then of course it has a lot of utility in the endgame, helping you close things out.

Now, of course it can whiff on your Estates or something, which is a bummer. But really it's a pretty good card. Maybe not so good as it comes out on this ranking, but not all that far off either... and certainly better than Remodel. It's very nearly strictly superior to Remodel, now that I think about the two cards. Remodel turns your Coppers into $2-cost cards, that's the only advantage it has (and that's not even an advantage, depending on what the $2s are).
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #191 on: February 16, 2013, 02:08:07 pm »
0

Remodel also adds $2 value to your deck whereas Salvager takes value from cards that it trashes and puts it elsewhere, so Remodel is better when you want to change your Estates into $3s and $4s.
Logged

sparky5856

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 111
  • Respect: +132
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #192 on: February 16, 2013, 05:25:07 pm »
0

Should I be surprised that we haven't seen Caravan yet? I didn't think it would be this high.
Logged

Rabid

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Shuffle iT Username: Rabid
  • Respect: +643
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #193 on: February 16, 2013, 05:30:38 pm »
+1

I think Caravan is much better than it looks.
http://councilroom.com/popular_buys
Sorted by number of turns Caravan is 3rd behind Governor and Wharf.
Obviously this only proves it accelerates games, but it a good indicator of a non attack power card.
Logged
Twitch
1 Day Cup #1:Ednever

Eevee

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1010
  • Shuffle iT Username: Eevee
  • A wild Eevee appears!
  • Respect: +867
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #194 on: February 16, 2013, 10:48:32 pm »
+1

How is envoy this high? Conspirator seems questionably high as well.
Logged

thirtyseven

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 362
  • Respect: +475
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #195 on: February 16, 2013, 11:15:47 pm »
0

The only ranking so far that's seemed way way off is Conspirator. Why is such an unreliable card so highly ranked?
Logged
I'm only a mid-level player, so I may be wrong...

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #196 on: February 17, 2013, 12:09:45 am »
0

The only ranking so far that's seemed way way off is Conspirator. Why is such an unreliable card so highly ranked?

But it isn't unreliable. You just have to plan appropiately.
Logged

Eevee

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1010
  • Shuffle iT Username: Eevee
  • A wild Eevee appears!
  • Respect: +867
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #197 on: February 17, 2013, 12:16:25 am »
0

The only ranking so far that's seemed way way off is Conspirator. Why is such an unreliable card so highly ranked?

But it isn't unreliable. You just have to plan appropiately.
But it's still unreliable and having multiples just compounds the problem. A hand of scheme-2x conspirator-2x smithy is just sad beans. Also it only works on engine boards with +buy, so its actually very often just useless. I think people overrate it because getting it to work is fun and satisfying, much like grand market before the majority of high level players started saying it's not that good.
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #198 on: February 17, 2013, 12:31:24 am »
0

The only ranking so far that's seemed way way off is Conspirator. Why is such an unreliable card so highly ranked?

But it isn't unreliable. You just have to plan appropiately.
But it's still unreliable and having multiples just compounds the problem. A hand of scheme-2x conspirator-2x smithy is just sad beans. Also it only works on engine boards with +buy, so its actually very often just useless. I think people overrate it because getting it to work is fun and satisfying, much like grand market before the majority of high level players started saying it's not that good.

That is true. Without +Buy, it is most often worth ignoring.
Logged

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 4/5)
« Reply #199 on: February 17, 2013, 12:44:57 am »
0

But it's still unreliable and having multiples just compounds the problem. A hand of scheme-2x conspirator-2x smithy is just sad beans. Also it only works on engine boards with +buy, so its actually very often just useless. I think people overrate it because getting it to work is fun and satisfying, much like grand market before the majority of high level players started saying it's not that good.

A hand of Scheme plus any 4 terminals is sad beans.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 12  All
 

Page created in 0.22 seconds with 21 queries.