Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 12  All

Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 5/5)  (Read 124979 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 1/5)
« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2013, 04:09:35 pm »
0

You can buy Nomad camp early on for use as a Woodcutter, and that's fine. But one of the things you can do with Nomad Camp that you can't do with Woodcutter is to buy it opportunistically. If you're in full-on greening mode and you're trying to delay reshuffles, Nomad Camp can be useful. If I've spent most of the shuffle buying Victory cards and I've got $4 this hand, I'm almost certainly going to want a Nomad Camp over an Estate.

Problem here is that buying a Nomad Camp will only cause a delay in the shuffle about 1/5 of the time...

And the other 4/5 of the time you'll have one more this-shuffle card and one less next-shuffle card for the hand where you reshuffle. It still helps you.
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4085
    • View Profile

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1119
  • Respect: +786
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #77 on: January 30, 2013, 03:23:27 pm »
0

Feodum is awfully underrated. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it 15-20 places higher next time.
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #78 on: January 30, 2013, 03:23:45 pm »
0

This list continues to disappoint me! Feast, Remodel, Trader, and Feodum all seem too high, and Noble Brigand and Irownworks both seem too low. I also don't understand how walled village is this much lower than the other villages, but that's not such an enormous thing.

I'm also not sure I agree with all the descriptions.
Feast can also be used with cost-reducers sometimes. But the big thing there is the openings - the chance that you get a 5 off feast is very marginally better than off a silver; the chance of getting two is slightly better than that. And you almost never want to use it to gain duchies - it's a big trap of the card actually - except in duke games, where it's good for dukes as well.
Nomad camp has some weird other uses, though to be fair they're quite obscure.
Noble Brigand you're selling all wrong though. It absolutely devours all but the very very strongest big money strtegies alive. I mean, the only BM that curvives it is like wharf, mirrors, cursers (though that's really a different story), and like 1 or 2 others. Okay, that doesn't make it a world-beater, but... It's probably also worth a mention that the on-buy attack gets through reactions and lighthouses.
Ironworks, I have issues with the downplaying-its-goodness commentary, but that is in line with the rank it got, so that's not a huge deal. But you don't really want to ironworks ironworks very often, except in rushes (silk road, gardens, etc.). Also, it's really not the extra card that helps very much there, I don't think.
Trader for big money is... okay, but not really all that hot.
Quarry/Ambassador is that high, huh? This isn't a gripe, I just find that interesting.
Your blurb on Feodum implies that gardens and SR are big in rushes, and while you can rush them, their main uses are definitively elsewhere.

Titandrake

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2210
  • Respect: +2854
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #79 on: January 30, 2013, 03:40:00 pm »
0

Your blurb on Feodum implies that gardens and SR are big in rushes, and while you can rush them, their main uses are definitively elsewhere.

Hm, really? I'll give that Silk Road is a good VP source in a slog, but I haven't seen Gardens used well in a slog yet. It feels like it would power up too slowly.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #80 on: January 30, 2013, 03:45:16 pm »
0

Your blurb on Feodum implies that gardens and SR are big in rushes, and while you can rush them, their main uses are definitively elsewhere.

Hm, really? I'll give that Silk Road is a good VP source in a slog, but I haven't seen Gardens used well in a slog yet. It feels like it would power up too slowly.
Well, Gardens can work out okay in slogs - though it's definitely not a reason to slog it up all by itself; with help though... More though, I am thinking of engines. Gardens is quite a fine card for lots of engines.

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4085
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #81 on: January 30, 2013, 03:47:14 pm »
+1

I'm also not sure I agree with all the descriptions.
So, let me clarify.

Feast can also be used with cost-reducers sometimes. But the big thing there is the openings - the chance that you get a 5 off feast is very marginally better than off a silver; the chance of getting two is slightly better than that. And you almost never want to use it to gain duchies - it's a big trap of the card actually - except in duke games, where it's good for dukes as well.
I never really experienced Feast with cost reducers. If you have the cost reducers, Feast costs also less when you buy it, so I can't see the big value. I think that's a big edge case that doesn't need to be mentioned. The rest seems pretty similar to that what I said (or what I intended to say). Feast is great if you want a $5 and don't necessarily want the Silver. And I did say that the Duchy gain is good in Duke games, not sure what you disagree with me. It can also be good in Ill-Gotten-Gains rushes for example.

Nomad camp has some weird other uses, though to be fair they're quite obscure.
What do you mean here?

Noble Brigand you're selling all wrong though. It absolutely devours all but the very very strongest big money strtegies alive. I mean, the only BM that curvives it is like wharf, mirrors, cursers (though that's really a different story), and like 1 or 2 others. Okay, that doesn't make it a world-beater, but... It's probably also worth a mention that the on-buy attack gets through reactions and lighthouses.
I know you like Noble Brigand a lot and you're pretty good in those Big Money games and I'm not, but my experience is that Noble Brigand+BM is good but not top-level. I just did a quick look and most of the 40+ level players rated it even lower. Not saying that they are right, but I think you're overvaluing a little bit.

Ironworks, I have issues with the downplaying-its-goodness commentary, but that is in line with the rank it got, so that's not a huge deal. But you don't really want to ironworks ironworks very often, except in rushes (silk road, gardens, etc.). Also, it's really not the extra card that helps very much there, I don't think.
Not sure what you mean with "downplaying-its-goodness". I agree, you don't want to Ironworks an Ironworks that often, I just want to show that you gain 2 cards from 2 Ironworks in a turn without having a village, I see now that this was misleading.

Trader for big money is... okay, but not really all that hot.
I agree, that it's not the best BM enabler, but in 3-4 player games where you can ignore cursers more easily, it's not that bad because you can easily get 2-3 Silvers a turn and a Big Money strategy is viable. And I think with Mountebank getting 2-3 Traders early on and go BM will win easily.

Quarry/Ambassador is that high, huh? This isn't a gripe, I just find that interesting.
You basically open Gold/Ambassador because when you open Ambassador you're likely building an engine, right?

Your blurb on Feodum implies that gardens and SR are big in rushes, and while you can rush them, their main uses are definitively elsewhere.
I'm still not sure how Feodum compares with Gardens and Silk Road, but it's pretty good with the right support, similarly as Gardens and Silk Road are good with the right support. So I disagree with you that it is too high. I think it's even too low, maybe not much, but a little bit. And I wasn't saying that Gardens and Silk Roads are mainly rushes, of course they can also be useful in slogs and other scenarios, but when going for them is viable (no matter if slog or rush or whatever) the game ends on 3-piles in most of the cases, right? What I was saying that this is harder to achieve with Feodum. But it plays differently, as you can empty the Feoda with a high Silver density from let's say Jack of All Trades and still can buy Provinces later on while you keep getting Silvers, it's like a Rush/Slog/Big Money mix where you first rush the Feoda, then go for Big Money and Provinces.

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1119
  • Respect: +786
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #82 on: January 30, 2013, 03:52:34 pm »
0

Quote from: Qvist
I'm still not sure how Feodum compares with Gardens and Silk Road, but it's pretty good with the right support, similarly as Gardens and Silk Road are good with the right support. So I disagree with you that it is too high. I think it's even too low, maybe not much, but a little bit. And I wasn't saying that Gardens and Silk Roads are mainly rushes, of course they can also be useful in slogs and other scenarios, but when going for them is viable (no matter if slog or rush or whatever) the game ends on 3-piles in most of the cases, right? What I was saying that this is harder to achieve with Feodum. But it plays differently, as you can empty the Feoda with a high Silver density from let's say Jack of All Trades and still can buy Provinces later on while you keep getting Silvers, it's like a Rush/Slog/Big Money mix where you first rush the Feoda, then go for Big Money and Provinces.
+1, I think therefore feodum is more like fairgrounds than gardens. And I'm really serious when I say it's too low by 15-20 places, in all games I played (all expansions mixed) feodum were a superstar (also, do not forget the other use of feodum : buying it only to trash it later for cash)
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #83 on: January 30, 2013, 04:04:36 pm »
0

Noble Brigand is good for shutting down money strategies, but in that sense it's just like any other attack. It's attack is somewhat marginal in engine vs engine, so it ends up being a card that you just don't buy that much. That makes it a bit hard to rank, but I think it's fine in the neighborhood it's in.

Walled Village continues to be way below the other villages for some unknown reason -- people just don't "like" it I guess...

And I think all the gainers are too low: Armory, Ironworks, and Remodel. But I thought all the gainers were low on the $3 lists too.

I also think Trader is low. The reaction is really good, and even just using it to trash Coppers works when there are no other trashers.
Logged

AJD

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3292
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +4434
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #84 on: January 30, 2013, 04:12:58 pm »
0

Walled Village continues to be way below the other villages for some unknown reason -- people just don't "like" it I guess...

I'm guessing because it's less flexible—you might buy Worker's Village or Farming Village or Fortress or Mining Village when you don't need +actions, but need +buy or top-deck filtering or something you can save from the trash or one-shot virtual coin. Walled Village is just a village that's slightly better at being a village, not a village that does something else in addition to being a village.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 04:17:54 pm by AJD »
Logged

Schneau

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Shuffle iT Username: Schneau
  • Respect: +1461
    • View Profile
    • Rainwave
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #85 on: January 30, 2013, 04:18:03 pm »
0

Noble Brigand and Irownworks both seem too low.

On Noble Brigand: It has the 6th worst "win-rate with" on CouncilRoom, after Thief, Coppersmith, Pirate Ship, Bureaucrat, Talisman (notice even Scout is slightly higher). Now, I'm not saying that this means Noble Brigand isn't better than this when in the hands of someone who knows how to use it (like yourself), but it seems that in the hands of more average players, it's not so great. That could explain the lower ratings here.
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #86 on: January 30, 2013, 04:20:38 pm »
0

I'm also not sure I agree with all the descriptions.
So, let me clarify.

Feast can also be used with cost-reducers sometimes. But the big thing there is the openings - the chance that you get a 5 off feast is very marginally better than off a silver; the chance of getting two is slightly better than that. And you almost never want to use it to gain duchies - it's a big trap of the card actually - except in duke games, where it's good for dukes as well.
I never really experienced Feast with cost reducers. If you have the cost reducers, Feast costs also less when you buy it, so I can't see the big value. I think that's a big edge case that doesn't need to be mentioned. The rest seems pretty similar to that what I said (or what I intended to say). Feast is great if you want a $5 and don't necessarily want the Silver. And I did say that the Duchy gain is good in Duke games, not sure what you disagree with me. It can also be good in Ill-Gotten-Gains rushes for example.
Sure, it's a bit of an edge case, probably not worth mentioning. The bigger thing is that you are mentioning its use to grab duchies, especially in duke games, but really it's ONLY good to do that in duke games - the way you say it implies its okay in other games, too, just not as good. And I don't find that it is, in fact, very good in IGG 'rushes'.

Quote
Nomad camp has some weird other uses, though to be fair they're quite obscure.
What do you mean here?
I mean really obscure things, which being really obscure, I probably should not have mentioned in the first place. This one isn't a complaint.

Quote
Noble Brigand you're selling all wrong though. It absolutely devours all but the very very strongest big money strtegies alive. I mean, the only BM that curvives it is like wharf, mirrors, cursers (though that's really a different story), and like 1 or 2 others. Okay, that doesn't make it a world-beater, but... It's probably also worth a mention that the on-buy attack gets through reactions and lighthouses.
I know you like Noble Brigand a lot and you're pretty good in those Big Money games and I'm not, but my experience is that Noble Brigand+BM is good but not top-level. I just did a quick look and most of the 40+ level players rated it even lower. Not saying that they are right, but I think you're overvaluing a little bit.
I actually don't like it particularly; I think it is strong. Well, we can disagree here. But I am not saying that NB/BM is top level. I am saying that NB is top level against BM, and it absolutely is. Of course, if your opponent doesn't ever have much silver or gold in his deck, it's terrible, but it can actually have pretty decent impact in games it's never bought in, because it discourages eats big money SO MUCH. Eh, I guess my disagreement here is more with how its strength is perceived more than what you say, similar to the ironworks below.

Quote
Ironworks, I have issues with the downplaying-its-goodness commentary, but that is in line with the rank it got, so that's not a huge deal. But you don't really want to ironworks ironworks very often, except in rushes (silk road, gardens, etc.). Also, it's really not the extra card that helps very much there, I don't think.
Not sure what you mean with "downplaying-its-goodness". I agree, you don't want to Ironworks an Ironworks that often, I just want to show that you gain 2 cards from 2 Ironworks in a turn without having a village, I see now that this was misleading.

Trader for big money is... okay, but not really all that hot.
I agree, that it's not the best BM enabler, but in 3-4 player games where you can ignore cursers more easily, it's not that bad because you can easily get 2-3 Silvers a turn and a Big Money strategy is viable. And I think with Mountebank getting 2-3 Traders early on and go BM will win easily.
Yeah, but this is a different point entirely. As a defense, right on, but my point is that the active trader strategy buying it just to trash and turn stuff into silver, isn't so strong as you're selling - it's very good I presume with feodum, and with gardens and duke, but other than this, not so much - essentially, not for big money by itself. As a defense is a different story though.

Quote
Quarry/Ambassador is that high, huh? This isn't a gripe, I just find that interesting.
You basically open Gold/Ambassador because when you open Ambassador you're likely building an engine, right?
Yeah, but opportunity cost means you're missing out on a second ambassador. It's not that quarry doesn't go well, just specifically as an opener. I mean, I'm not sure how often I would want to open amb/gold. But okay. Interesting.

Quote
Your blurb on Feodum implies that gardens and SR are big in rushes, and while you can rush them, their main uses are definitively elsewhere.
I'm still not sure how Feodum compares with Gardens and Silk Road, but it's pretty good with the right support, similarly as Gardens and Silk Road are good with the right support. So I disagree with you that it is too high. I think it's even too low, maybe not much, but a little bit. And I wasn't saying that Gardens and Silk Roads are mainly rushes, of course they can also be useful in slogs and other scenarios, but when going for them is viable (no matter if slog or rush or whatever) the game ends on 3-piles in most of the cases, right? What I was saying that this is harder to achieve with Feodum. But it plays differently, as you can empty the Feoda with a high Silver density from let's say Jack of All Trades and still can buy Provinces later on while you keep getting Silvers, it's like a Rush/Slog/Big Money mix where you first rush the Feoda, then go for Big Money and Provinces.
But only the slog really NEEDS to end the game in three piles. If you can't end the game on three piles in a slog, or an engine, who cares? You aren't winning that way (well, in an engine you often are, but it's irrelevant). I think you make too big a deal of this - I doubt it matters that much. Having said that, I don't have tons of experience with dark ages and am fully ready to defer to those who do.

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #87 on: January 30, 2013, 04:23:03 pm »
+2

Walled Village continues to be way below the other villages for some unknown reason -- people just don't "like" it I guess...

I'm guessing because it's less flexible—you might buy Worker's Village or Farming Village or Fortress or Mining Village when you don't need +actions, but need +buy or top-deck filtering or something you can save from the trash or one-shot virtual coin. Walled Village is just a village that's slightly better at being a village, not a village that does something else in addition to being a village.
Sure, these are great reasons for it to be the lowest $4 village. But really, doesn't most of the value of all of these cards come from just being villages, in which case, why is there that big a gap? That's the question I have.

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #88 on: January 30, 2013, 04:57:41 pm »
+1

And I'm really serious when I say it's too low by 15-20 places, in all games I played (all expansions mixed) feodum were a superstar (also, do not forget the other use of feodum : buying it only to trash it later for cash)

And in all games I played, Feodum sucked (except for one with Rebuild where no one contested the Feodum stack), so I'm not inclined to take your opinion very seriously.

When you take a composite strength of Feodum, it's not very strong compared to SR and Gardens. Feodum is nearly worthless in engines because they don't want Silver at all, whereas SRs can be made to be worth ~3 VP if the player builds his deck to sustain the green and Gardens can be worth a lot in engines swimming in +buy (but they can be easily made worth at least 3 VP anyway). It's worthless in rushes because you just can't rush them and get points very quickly because they don't generate points on their own.

So basically your only option is to slog with Feodum and transition into a money strategy. Okay, fine, that's moderately strong. But given that this is your best option with this card, and there are relatively fewer good support cards out there, I can't imagine it being much higher on this list.

Yeah, but opportunity cost means you're missing out on a second ambassador. It's not that quarry doesn't go well, just specifically as an opener. I mean, I'm not sure how often I would want to open amb/gold. But okay. Interesting.

You trade a lot of deck-building tempo opening Amb. On boards with the right $5s, it's probably more important to get them than to really focus on deck thinning with Amb, because you might be able to cycle through a slightly bigger deck anyway and play Amb enough that the ground you give up in Amb tennis early can be made up for later.

Although what I'd really like to see on an Amb/Quarry board are good $3s. Amb/Quarry loses its punch if they collide and you return 2 Coppers (leaving you generally with only effectively $3-4 to spend), so good $3s make up for that.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 05:03:58 pm by dondon151 »
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #89 on: January 30, 2013, 05:10:45 pm »
0

Walled Village continues to be way below the other villages for some unknown reason -- people just don't "like" it I guess...

I'm guessing because it's less flexible—you might buy Worker's Village or Farming Village or Fortress or Mining Village when you don't need +actions, but need +buy or top-deck filtering or something you can save from the trash or one-shot virtual coin. Walled Village is just a village that's slightly better at being a village, not a village that does something else in addition to being a village.
Sure, these are great reasons for it to be the lowest $4 village. But really, doesn't most of the value of all of these cards come from just being villages, in which case, why is there that big a gap? That's the question I have.
I think the gap is there because Walled Village doesn't do anything aside from being a village, and it's better than the vanilla Village only when you didn't need a village. In most engines, I would buy Fishing Village over Walled Village all day. I agree that the gap is too big, though.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

KingsSkort

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
  • Respect: +88
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #90 on: January 30, 2013, 05:21:13 pm »
+2

Walled Village continues to be way below the other villages for some unknown reason -- people just don't "like" it I guess...

I'm guessing because it's less flexible—you might buy Worker's Village or Farming Village or Fortress or Mining Village when you don't need +actions, but need +buy or top-deck filtering or something you can save from the trash or one-shot virtual coin. Walled Village is just a village that's slightly better at being a village, not a village that does something else in addition to being a village.
Sure, these are great reasons for it to be the lowest $4 village. But really, doesn't most of the value of all of these cards come from just being villages, in which case, why is there that big a gap? That's the question I have.
I think the gap is there because Walled Village doesn't do anything aside from being a village, and it's better than the vanilla Village only when you didn't need a village. In most engines, I would buy Fishing Village over Walled Village all day. I agree that the gap is too big, though.

So a village you can topdeck repeatedly is terrible (compared to village), but a woodcutter you can topdeck once is good?
Logged

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #91 on: January 30, 2013, 05:21:46 pm »
0

Walled Village does fill that niche where if you have a bunch of terminals in a fat deck, they won't collide as often.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #92 on: January 30, 2013, 05:32:11 pm »
0

So a village you can topdeck repeatedly is terrible (compared to village), but a woodcutter you can topdeck once is good?
No, that's not what I said. A card that is a cantrip you can topdeck or a village you can't topdeck is not very good compared to the third best $3 card. And I think Nomad Camp is overrated.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

SirPeebles

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +5459
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #93 on: January 30, 2013, 06:15:02 pm »
0

Hmm.  Walled Village/Scavenger/Counting House combo?  A pair of Walled Villages keep topdecking themselves until you reach Scavenger.  Then you play one Walled Village, then Scavenger discarding and topdecking Counting House, then play your second Walled Village to draw your Counting House.

Meh, doesn't sound so strong to me either.
Logged
Well you *do* need a signature...

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #94 on: January 30, 2013, 06:20:31 pm »
+7

I want to emphasize that whatever disagreements I have, that in no way lessens the amount of respect and appreciation I have for Qvist for organizing, writing, and generally putting this project together, or the voters for voting.

Destierro

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
  • Respect: +49
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #95 on: January 30, 2013, 07:30:41 pm »
+1

I want to emphasize that whatever disagreements I have, that in no way lessens the amount of respect and appreciation I have for Qvist for organizing, writing, and generally putting this project together, or the voters for voting.

No one is doubting this. Personally, I like a little debate about the cards, it helps me think about them in different ways, which ultimately makes me a better player.
Logged

sparky5856

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 111
  • Respect: +132
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2013, 09:58:24 pm »
0

Walled Village last twice? Wow, that's brutal.
Logged

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2816
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3347
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2013, 10:10:45 pm »
0

This is upside down, because that's how I've put it into my comparison spreadsheet (you'd think three best dominion card lists would be enough to teach me, but NOOO)

Feodum - Meh, I don't have enough experience to say better. It doesn't feel out of place, in the lower-middle third.
Quarry - This looks horrifically underrated. I guess I can see why though - it's a card that can be amazing a reasonable amount of time, but is often not worth the buy, but that vaguely defined 'reasonable amount' is the issue. I think it occurs often enough to put the card ~15 places higher - a quarry or two in an engine with good +buy and suddenly you shave turns off of grabbing engine components. But I guess those situations might not occur enough to get the card higher.
Trader - This also looks a little low, but I'm second guessing myself now. It's decent against cursing/ruins attacks, especially in multiplayer and really good with Mountebank - firstly obviously you can turn incoming curses into Silver, and when the curses run out, bam, turn a now pretty bad card into a wad of Silver. But I'm really wondering, asides from that, is it usually worthwhile? Like one good use is turning your Estates into two silvers, that's very nice, but I guess you really need a plan for it beyond that. Eh, I dunno, I had it at 31 but that feels a little high now.
Ironworks - Looks okay, maybe a little high. Gaining $4's... maybe I'm underrating how useful that is, maybe I'm also doing what I used to do with Bishop and opening with it too much when you really want to pick it up later.
Remodel - Maybe a touch high? Dunno.
Walled Village - Eh. No strong feelings. I guess a little low, it's still a village, and has it's own niche in BM type decks.
Noble Brigand - Criminally low. Do people not realise just how good this is in BM games? Even outside of them, it can be good in engines (provided your engine wants treasure of course!) and it's on buy attack is really nice as well.
Armory - I'm not sure, but this also feels high. Gaining and topdecking is nice, but as I've already said, I feel like the best and main use of the gainers is for rushes. Perhaps I need to re-evaluate that.
Nomad Camp - Eh. Could see this going down a little.
Feast - Eh, also could see this going down.
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2013, 10:24:33 pm »
0

Armory - I'm not sure, but this also feels high. Gaining and topdecking is nice, but as I've already said, I feel like the best and main use of the gainers is for rushes. Perhaps I need to re-evaluate that.

So, what, the lengths that people go to gain a card and play it in the same turn is nothing more than wasting effort on a cute trick?
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4085
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $4 cards (Part 2/5)
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2013, 03:47:01 am »
0

I want to emphasize that whatever disagreements I have, that in no way lessens the amount of respect and appreciation I have for Qvist for organizing, writing, and generally putting this project together, or the voters for voting.

Thanks. And I didn't question that. I just wanted to clarify because as English isn't my first language, I know that some things may be formulated wrong or ambiguous.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 12  All
 

Page created in 0.064 seconds with 21 queries.