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Author Topic: Feedback on games  (Read 11785 times)

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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2013, 09:34:25 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/23/game-20130123-183245-45818306.html

I went for duchy/duke, I thought I had five duchies when I had four.  So I lost.  We each got four duchies and four dukes, but I had more curses.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

DG

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2013, 09:36:07 pm »
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I went for mostly big money, but got an ambassador and a couple lighthouses on the way.  My opponent built a nobles engine.  I got five provinces, but his nobles won.

That game could be complicated on a number of different levels. Essentially though, lighthouses help you win the ambassador war here and they will defend against ghost ships later as well. After you've shrunk the deck down there's an opportunity to build an engine since you've got good attacks you'd like to play repeatedly, festivals to provide actions and buys, and lighthouses you want to put into play every turn. The nobles also allow you to build this into a really strong engine without falling irrevocably behind on points.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2013, 10:01:22 pm »
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I went for duchy/duke, I thought I had five duchies when I had four.  So I lost.  We each got four duchies and four dukes, but I had more curses.

I think the feast/swindler opening was likely to give you a bad start. The three cost cards are all quite useful so it's good to have them in your deck as potential swindle targets and there's no need to skip them with a feast to go directly to witch. Although you do want a turn 3/4 witch it isn't absolutely decisive since the swindlers will mess up their work anyway. In fact, a second swindler could have been better than a second witch. Later on you went into duchies with too little treasure in your deck.

I also feel that your action purchases didn't go together.  There were all doing their own thing but did little to help each other. For example, the warehouse isn't a bad card at sifting a cursed deck but it isn't good when drawn by a witch and does nothing to set up a secret chamber.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2013, 12:19:29 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/23/game-20130123-182200-7c5de2eb.html

I went for mostly big money, but got an ambassador and a couple lighthouses on the way.  My opponent built a nobles engine.  I got five provinces, but his nobles won.

EDIT: Oops, I also got a salvager that I thought I would use more than I did.

I would have opened ambassador/light house and considered masquerade/festival/nobles.  There is way too much engine here to afford losing the ambassador war like you did. You had the potential to eat 2 ambassadors and a ghost ship every turn. without a good supply of lighthouses that is a guaranteed loss.

An engine with ghost ship + masq will absolutely destroy BM every time.  He'll ghost ship you, and you hold onto gold/gold/silver, then he plays masq and passes you a copper.  Now you've got the dreaded 7$ and probably 2 junk cards on top of your deck for next turn.
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2013, 01:05:19 am »
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(I got prosperity, so I play with it now)

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/24/game-20130124-220235-4f1d06ac.html

I went for minions with a few conspirators, and he went for conspirators with a few minions.  We each got a masquerade at the beginning, and it wasn't too eventful after that.  I got six provinces while he got two.

I did think about getting the herbalist for the +buy, but realized there were no villages and I would have to get it last, so I didn't get it.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

dondon151

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2013, 01:11:37 am »
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Not to burst your bubble, but it's pretty hard to give feedback on games where you outplay your opponent.
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2013, 01:14:25 am »
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Not to burst your bubble, but it's pretty hard to give feedback on games where you outplay your opponent.

I know, I've just been posting every single game I play online.  (I play a lot irl too, so I play more than it seems.)  Also, I have had some things said about games I outplay my opponent.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2013, 01:49:07 am »
+1

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/24/game-20130124-224731-a677f3b4.html

I for some weird reason thought that alchemists and minions would go well together.  I was wrong.  He set up an uber-engine and got 7 provinces.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

DStu

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2013, 02:39:05 am »
+1

I for some weird reason thought that alchemists and minions would go well together.  I was wrong.  He set up an uber-engine and got 7 provinces.

Minions in a deck with Alchemists are basically Silvers, Minions against an Alchemiststack are basically "Fine that you put back 5 Alchemists to your deck, but would you please discard them?".
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2013, 02:41:29 am »
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I for some weird reason thought that alchemists and minions would go well together.  I was wrong.  He set up an uber-engine and got 7 provinces.

Minions in a deck with Alchemists are basically Silvers, Minions against an Alchemiststack are basically "Fine that you put back 5 Alchemists to your deck, but would you please discard them?".

Oh man, I didn't think about that.  I mainly thought, "I need to get alchemists to not let him have as many.  They don't seem to confilct with minions, so I'll get them too."  I still don't know why I thought that...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2013, 01:00:51 pm »
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yup, after your opponent went potion you could have just rushed minions and destroyed him.  (open woodcutter/silver). MAYBE woodcutter/lookout.

This board is a perfect opportunity for you to learn how to evaluate.

First, there are 2 incredibly powerful self combos, alchemist and minion. (hunting party and governor also fall into this category). In most games, losing the split on one of those means losing the game. In the same game, because of the /discard your hand attack of minion, it is clearly superior to alch. Even if he gets all 10 alchemists.  Play 2 rabbles, then a minion, and bam, he's back to square 1.

Second, there are some minion powerup cards. lookout and upgrade to thin your deck, and +action (bazaar) with +$ (woodcutter) and throneroom. meaning you can get extra money and buys in the middle of your minion chain. This makes minion clearly the most powerful strategy.

third, There is brutal attack engine potential with bazaar and rabble/ghost ship. Ghost ship is the nastiest attack in the game. Any deck that plays a ghost ship every turn will usually win. Minion is a decent counter to ghost ship however. And ghostship/rabble doesn't work great because he can just put green or copper on top of his deck that he doesn't mind you rabbling.  (plus early on he can put estates on top to make sure lookout hits them.)

4th - Woodcutter is the only + buy here.  In a game like this where you may notice nobody bought a terminal before turn 14, you want to open woodcutter for sure. I suppose you could skip it because of upgrade, and just upgrade estate into 1 later (as your opp did). But in most minion or alchemist games (especially with villages or thronerooms) get those terminal silvers early so you dont have to waste money later. Many minion games come down to a 4/4 split. And if you throw in a woodcutter and steal the last 2 minions on a 10$ turn, you win. And you wont want to waste a 5$ buy on an upgrade in a minion race. (until after you win).
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2013, 02:01:54 pm »
+1

Not to burst your bubble, but it's pretty hard to give feedback on games where you outplay your opponent.

I know, I've just been posting every single game I play online.
Oh dear me, if everyone did that...

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2013, 05:16:42 pm »
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yup, after your opponent went potion you could have just rushed minions and destroyed him.  (open woodcutter/silver). MAYBE woodcutter/lookout.

This board is a perfect opportunity for you to learn how to evaluate.

First, there are 2 incredibly powerful self combos, alchemist and minion. (hunting party and governor also fall into this category). In most games, losing the split on one of those means losing the game. In the same game, because of the /discard your hand attack of minion, it is clearly superior to alch. Even if he gets all 10 alchemists.  Play 2 rabbles, then a minion, and bam, he's back to square 1.

Second, there are some minion powerup cards. lookout and upgrade to thin your deck, and +action (bazaar) with +$ (woodcutter) and throneroom. meaning you can get extra money and buys in the middle of your minion chain. This makes minion clearly the most powerful strategy.

third, There is brutal attack engine potential with bazaar and rabble/ghost ship. Ghost ship is the nastiest attack in the game. Any deck that plays a ghost ship every turn will usually win. Minion is a decent counter to ghost ship however. And ghostship/rabble doesn't work great because he can just put green or copper on top of his deck that he doesn't mind you rabbling.  (plus early on he can put estates on top to make sure lookout hits them.)

4th - Woodcutter is the only + buy here.  In a game like this where you may notice nobody bought a terminal before turn 14, you want to open woodcutter for sure. I suppose you could skip it because of upgrade, and just upgrade estate into 1 later (as your opp did). But in most minion or alchemist games (especially with villages or thronerooms) get those terminal silvers early so you dont have to waste money later. Many minion games come down to a 4/4 split. And if you throw in a woodcutter and steal the last 2 minions on a 10$ turn, you win. And you wont want to waste a 5$ buy on an upgrade in a minion race. (until after you win).

I don't really agree that games are often decided by Alchemist split, but maybe I haven't played enough games.

I think the best attack combo here is Minion->Ghost Ship.  Best 3 of 4 is so much worse than best 3 of 5.  Win the Minion split, pick up a few Bazaars and a couple Ghost Ships and a bunch of Throne Rooms.  Should be great.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2013, 06:21:49 pm »
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Quote
I don't really agree that games are often decided by Alchemist split, but maybe I haven't played enough games.

I think the best attack combo here is Minion->Ghost Ship.  Best 3 of 4 is so much worse than best 3 of 5.  Win the Minion split, pick up a few Bazaars and a couple Ghost Ships and a bunch of Throne Rooms.  Should be great.

In games where both players go alchemist, if it goes 6/4 the person with 4 is in deep trouble. they are much more likely to miss drawing their potion etc.  That being said, alchemist isn't a must buy on many many boards (no +buys, no trashing, etc). 

I really dont think the ghost ship is very effective in this board. It's too easy to leave yourself with a minion and 2 crap cards. I'd rather thin my deck with an upgrade, or add more money/actions with a bazaar.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2013, 06:53:21 am »
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yup, after your opponent went potion you could have just rushed minions and destroyed him.  (open woodcutter/silver). MAYBE woodcutter/lookout.

I don't think this is so clear-cut. First, a lot of the power in Alchemist is in the fact that you can topdeck them, yes, but I think you're also overlooking the fact that it's basically a Lab. And this board is almost a drawing engine's paradise: Alchemist, Bazaar, Rabble, Throne Room, Ghost Ship. Upgrade/Lookout for trashing. The +buy is a little weak here but is alleviated by the fact that Bazaar will generate plenty of actions and Throne Room can double up on Woodcutters. Once the deck has a high enough density of Bazaars, Rabbles, Alchemists, and Ghost Ships, it doesn't care about always starting from a 4-card hand.

Conversely, the Minion stack is much weaker against the attacks on the board. It can't leverage Ghost Ship or Rabble as well because those cards draw and Minion doesn't care about drawing. It's pretty susceptible to Ghost Ship -> Rabble because you're stuck with a 3-card hand and an effectively 1-2 card hand after you Minion for draw (after Minion picks up a bit of green).

I feel like the best option here may be to start contesting the Minions, but don't go too hard for them. If an opponent is clearly going after the Minion stack, try to split it 4-6 while thinning down your deck and transitioning into a drawing engine. 6 Minions is not enough to sustain a deck, and the drawing engine should be very effective at locking down an opponent if he decides to green prematurely.
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DG

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2013, 08:22:05 am »
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Conversely, the Minion stack is much weaker against the attacks on the board. It can't leverage Ghost Ship or Rabble as well because those cards draw and Minion doesn't care about drawing.

Minions can respond well to drawing, just not in the same manner as other cards. This is exactly the sort of deck where a big hand of minions and thrones would be very good.
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2013, 02:26:31 pm »
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I got kiiiiiilled this game...

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/26/game-20130126-112404-85ec9ec7.html

I decided to go for a village/torturer engine, but I never managed to do much until right near the end.  Meanwhile, my opponent did do it (maybe because of his tactician) and got all eight provinces.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2013, 07:14:27 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/26/game-20130126-161157-8b54a9ed.html

I went for a fishing village/council room engine.  It worked quite well.  I may have overprepared a little, but I was wanting to be able to buy two provinces a turn.  Now I'm realizing I probably should have trashed the pearl divers (or maybe even a few council rooms (especially on that last turn).  I got five provinces but with his extra 9 VP and two duchies he still beat me.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2013, 07:23:34 pm »
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And this one where I went for courtyard-BM (with a market that I got when I had five coins).

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/26/game-20130126-161914-5b130c65.html

I basically went for courtyard-BM.  I didn't quite follow the PPR at the end there, I just thought that if he bought the last province we would tie, and if he didn't I could probably manage a duchy or the last province.  I was kind of scared when he bought the duchy and I couldn't do anything, but I still managed to get the last province.


Now I'm realizing I probably should have trashed the pearl divers (or maybe even a few council rooms (especially on that last turn).

And I realized I should have mentioned that I would trash them with the bishop for more points.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2013, 07:32:50 pm »
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(I'm going on a rampage with these games right now)

I saw lespeutere go on and I couldn't help myself and proposed a game with him.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/26/game-20130126-162837-fa69cc87.html

I was pretty sure I would lose, going against a level 51 opponent who was in the top four in the tournament.  I went for a fishing village/council room engine (again), while he went for something a little different (using some conspirators, wishing wells, and things for the cards more than council rooms).  I wasn't surprised when he beat me.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2013, 07:50:13 pm »
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(alright, this will be my last one for now)

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/26/game-20130126-164814-ca365289.html

I made a native village/wharf engine.  Because of that, the native villages and wharves ran out.  I had bought a couple provinces, so I bought the rest of the wishing wells and won.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2013, 07:15:07 am »
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I decided to go for a village/torturer engine, but I never managed to do much until right near the end.

You bought an island and secret chamber on turns 3 and 4. These were only going to stop you getting a hand of 5 coins urgently needed for mountebank, tactician, etc. Once you have mountebank and tactician the torturers seem less important and you have a variety of continuations available.

Quote
I saw lespeutere go on and I couldn't help myself and proposed a game with him.

No need to ask us what to do, just look what he did.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2013, 03:08:09 pm »
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You seem to like council room engines a little too much.  Giving your opponent an extra card (or 2 or 3) is really really bad when they are setting up their own engines. especially with cards like conspirator out there where getting that extra action turns a crappy turn into a megaturn.

Theres a few other really quick comments.  Opening baron courtyard is a great combo you passed on. in your courtyard BM game.

In that nasty mountebank torturer deck, you could have considered opening steward/steward. In any games with engine potential this is a great opening.  Get your trashing going early.  And if stewards collide it's not a big deal, you just trash 2 cards, and the wasted steward isn't that much worse than a silver.  Tactitcian was key as well. It's great for playing multiple torturers or mountebanks in a single turn, which is when those attacks become their nastiest.  But it also sets up your trashing with stewards as well.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #73 on: January 31, 2013, 04:56:55 pm »
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(I have cornucopia also now, anything on how I use these cards and the prosperity ones would be helpful)

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-135110-f8a0197a.html

I saw the tournament and so had my goal to get prizes asap.  I used the hunting party to get them both in my hand and got a province early (the remodel was trying to remodel a gold into the province, but I managed anyway).  I got all five prizes (those hunting parties helped quite a bit).  Was there anything with how I used the cards that could be better?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #74 on: January 31, 2013, 05:05:43 pm »
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At a 10 second glance.  Royal Seal is in the Kingdom.  I wouldn't prioritize it over HP initially, but obtaining a Royal Seal can help you line up Tournaments/Provinces very well.  Maybe pick one up after your 2nd HP?  I dunno, maybe others have some thoughts about when the ideal time to get one would be.  But I definitely think making use of RS would increase the win percentage.
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