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sudgy

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Feedback on games
« on: January 16, 2013, 01:11:54 am »
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(I don't know if this should be in this thread, I'll post it here and if it should be somewhere else it can go there.  I was thinking maybe just the general discussion)

I'm wanting to get better at the game, and despite countless hours spent reading things on this site and a lot of games, I'm still not getting much better...

I was thinking of posting all my isotropic games here (I only play a couple times a day online (well, usually)) and getting feedback on them (If you guys don't think it's a good idea for some reason, I can stop).

Also, I only have the base game and the first three expansions (I'm getting the next two soon) irl, so I only play with those cards online.

I'll wait for feedback on the idea before posting game logs.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2013, 01:23:27 am »
+2

Something like this has been done before with a pretty reasonable response:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3269.0
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5397.0

The important thing is to not just post all the logs with no analysis. If you want people to give feedback, give your own analysis of the games, and we can give more constructive advice. If you just post logs, it's hard for people to get motivated to look on their own.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2013, 01:31:16 am »
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You should play with all the cards anyway! :D



If you have an Android phone, a decent way to improve is to play Androminion against the Earl AI.  Earl usually just plays pure Big Money.  Sometimes he will go for a few other cards -- usually just Base set ones (Witch is one).  But pretty much Big Money.

For real newbies, even that will be a challenge.  I remember reading reviews of Androminion saying that their AI was too strong!  But after you get past that stage, playing against a Big Money bot can still be educational for learning the speed of different strategies.  Yeah, it might seem like a good idea at first to build that giant multi-province engine... but by the time it's running, maybe BM already has 6 Provinces.  Oops.

And yeah, there are plenty of people around here who are happy to critique and give advice. :)
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2013, 01:38:58 am »
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Something like this has been done before with a pretty reasonable response:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3269.0
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5397.0

The important thing is to not just post all the logs with no analysis. If you want people to give feedback, give your own analysis of the games, and we can give more constructive advice. If you just post logs, it's hard for people to get motivated to look on their own.

I was going to give analysis on each game anyway.

You should play with all the cards anyway! :D

I've made an agreement with the people I play with irl that I won't play with them.  They don't want me to get good at cards they don't know (they don't play online).

Quote
if you have an Android phone

I don't, so that's out.  I'm fine playing with people.

I guess I'll just get started, and ironically the first game I win.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/15/game-20130115-223225-3186ecf5.html

I decided to go for gardens.  I used the woodcutter and the wharf as the main cards to help with it, with a swindler added to it (and a caravan, I don't know what made me do that).  Nothing much eventful, I just played gardens, getting five of them, and emptying the estates and duchies (which is unusual for me when I'm going for the gardens, it just was the best card at the time).  I had 50 cards in my deck by the end, so I beat him pretty good.  I guess you don't learn as much when you win...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

hsiale

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2013, 03:02:26 am »
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Also, I only have the base game and the first three expansions (I'm getting the next two soon) irl, so I only play with those cards online.
If you don't know the cards, use this plugin: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dominion-full-card-displa/nloabfofohknompmpdnkibeilnnhailk - you will have card texts displayed all the time on Iso. I learned Alchemy, Hinterlands and Cornucopia cards by playing with them on Iso with this turned on.
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DStu

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2013, 04:19:31 am »
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I guess I'll just get started, and ironically the first game I win.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/15/game-20130115-223225-3186ecf5.html

I decided to go for gardens.  I used the woodcutter and the wharf as the main cards to help with it, with a swindler added to it (and a caravan, I don't know what made me do that).  Nothing much eventful, I just played gardens, getting five of them, and emptying the estates and duchies (which is unusual for me when I'm going for the gardens, it just was the best card at the time).  I had 50 cards in my deck by the end, so I beat him pretty good.  I guess you don't learn as much when you win...

Not much to say I guess, you are right in thinking the Caravan was wrong, should have been a Silver or another Swindler.  Your main focus is the Wharfs, Caravan does not help in getting that early.
40 points in 23 turns seems like this is reasonable play for quite a high skillrange.   Of course there is Wharf-BM on the board, which might get some early Provinces, contest Gardens and try to pile out, don't know if that's better.  Is a good question anyway. In a vacuum, does Wharf-Gardens beat Wharf-BM?
There also is a weak engine on the board, which can profit from Sabteurs/Swindlers to destroy points, but without trashing and with Nobles as Villages  I'd leave that to Stef or Marin...
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KingsSkort

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2013, 09:21:54 am »
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I guess I'll just get started, and ironically the first game I win.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/15/game-20130115-223225-3186ecf5.html

I decided to go for gardens.  I used the woodcutter and the wharf as the main cards to help with it, with a swindler added to it (and a caravan, I don't know what made me do that).  Nothing much eventful, I just played gardens, getting five of them, and emptying the estates and duchies (which is unusual for me when I'm going for the gardens, it just was the best card at the time).  I had 50 cards in my deck by the end, so I beat him pretty good.  I guess you don't learn as much when you win...

Not much to say I guess, you are right in thinking the Caravan was wrong, should have been a Silver or another Swindler.  Your main focus is the Wharfs, Caravan does not help in getting that early.
40 points in 23 turns seems like this is reasonable play for quite a high skillrange.   Of course there is Wharf-BM on the board, which might get some early Provinces, contest Gardens and try to pile out, don't know if that's better.  Is a good question anyway. In a vacuum, does Wharf-Gardens beat Wharf-BM?
There also is a weak engine on the board, which can profit from Sabteurs/Swindlers to destroy points, but without trashing and with Nobles as Villages  I'd leave that to Stef or Marin...

Wharf-BM must crush the gardens strat. I just did a trial where I pulled 8 provinces in 24 turns. Swindler should slow that down a bit, but I also mistakenly bought a duchy:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/16/game-20130116-061849-b0e0c411.html

EDIT: Plus, the gardens player really has to worry about piles. Assuming Wharves and Gardens go early, there's a danger of the non-gardens player picking up a few provinces and then piling out duchies or estates.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 09:23:42 am by KingsSkort »
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DStu

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2013, 09:30:45 am »
0

I guess I'll just get started, and ironically the first game I win.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/15/game-20130115-223225-3186ecf5.html

I decided to go for gardens.  I used the woodcutter and the wharf as the main cards to help with it, with a swindler added to it (and a caravan, I don't know what made me do that).  Nothing much eventful, I just played gardens, getting five of them, and emptying the estates and duchies (which is unusual for me when I'm going for the gardens, it just was the best card at the time).  I had 50 cards in my deck by the end, so I beat him pretty good.  I guess you don't learn as much when you win...

Not much to say I guess, you are right in thinking the Caravan was wrong, should have been a Silver or another Swindler.  Your main focus is the Wharfs, Caravan does not help in getting that early.
40 points in 23 turns seems like this is reasonable play for quite a high skillrange.   Of course there is Wharf-BM on the board, which might get some early Provinces, contest Gardens and try to pile out, don't know if that's better.  Is a good question anyway. In a vacuum, does Wharf-Gardens beat Wharf-BM?
There also is a weak engine on the board, which can profit from Sabteurs/Swindlers to destroy points, but without trashing and with Nobles as Villages  I'd leave that to Stef or Marin...

Wharf-BM must crush the gardens strat. I just did a trial where I pulled 8 provinces in 24 turns. Swindler should slow that down a bit, but I also mistakenly bought a duchy:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/16/game-20130116-061849-b0e0c411.html

EDIT: Plus, the gardens player really has to worry about piles. Assuming Wharves and Gardens go early, there's a danger of the non-gardens player picking up a few provinces and then piling out duchies or estates.

You don't seem to have 24 turns, and 8 Provinces + Duchy is not enough against 8 5pGardens+3Duchies+8Estates.  But I agree on the piles thing.  I think best way is to build up BM-Wharf, get some Provinces, contest Gardens, help piling out.
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DG

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2013, 09:37:40 am »
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It isn't certain which 3rd pile will empty in this game so there needs to be tactics beyond the gardens. If the gardens are split 4-4 then the player with the stronger deck will then win on province/duchy points against a player who buys coppers etc from the start. Since a strong deck here will be using wharves there will be plenty of capability to defend against gardens.
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2013, 12:58:44 pm »
0

Also, I only have the base game and the first three expansions (I'm getting the next two soon) irl, so I only play with those cards online.
If you don't know the cards, use this plugin: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dominion-full-card-displa/nloabfofohknompmpdnkibeilnnhailk - you will have card texts displayed all the time on Iso. I learned Alchemy, Hinterlands and Cornucopia cards by playing with them on Iso with this turned on.

It's not that I don't want to learn them, it's that by an agreement made, I can't learn them.


On topic, I didn't even think about Wharf BM...  When looking at everything, I saw the gardens, the wharves, the woodcutter, so I just went for it.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 03:04:05 pm »
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So, after talking about Wharf BM, that's kind of what I went for here:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/16/game-20130116-115926-6a318a00.html

I also got some familiars and lighthouses to block the familiars (I might have gotten too many lighthouses, I'm not sure).  I made a mistake on turn 5 and forgot about my +$1 from the lighthouse and bought a silver instead of a wharf.  He still managed to beat me pretty good.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2013, 03:18:41 pm »
0

And another one:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/16/game-20130116-121618-caa67b1f.html

I was going for a laboratory engine (with a torturer or two thrown in, with a fishing village or two to play them), but it kind of failed.  I still managed to get a fair amount of cards each turn though, and that was enough to win.  I'm pretty sure I could have done something better, but I'm not quite sure what that is...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 03:21:54 pm »
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http://dominionstrategy.com/2012/03/26/intrigue-torturer/

Objective is to play lots of torturers in the same turn.
So you want lots of FV, torturers, some TR, possibly a lookout, might want a pawn at some point for the +buy.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 03:27:02 pm by Rabid »
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2013, 03:29:16 pm »
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So, after talking about Wharf BM, that's kind of what I went for here:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/16/game-20130116-115926-6a318a00.html

I also got some familiars and lighthouses to block the familiars (I might have gotten too many lighthouses, I'm not sure).  I made a mistake on turn 5 and forgot about my +$1 from the lighthouse and bought a silver instead of a wharf.  He still managed to beat me pretty good.

I took a quick look at the early play and nothing stood out as a major mistake.  I actually find more fault with your opponent's play.  Smugglers open doesn't seem great to me, and smuggling a second potion seems like a bad idea.  That the game took 28 turns on a Wharf board is surprising.  Wharf BM should be much faster.  It might have just been a result of luck, where your Familiars kept getting blocked and his did not.

One thing to note is that Wharf is terminal draw when you play it.  Any actions it draws will be dead.  That makes other actions -- even non-terminal like Lighthouse and Familiar -- less desirable.

Maybe a better player will see something more to that game.

And another one:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/16/game-20130116-121618-caa67b1f.html

I was going for a laboratory engine (with a torturer or two thrown in, with a fishing village or two to play them), but it kind of failed.  I still managed to get a fair amount of cards each turn though, and that was enough to win.  I'm pretty sure I could have done something better, but I'm not quite sure what that is...

Skip the labs.  Fishing Village + Torturer is the clear power combo here.  Lab is nice non-terminal draw, but FV means you shouldn't be lacking for actions.  FV+Torturer will be a nice little draw engine for you, but that isn't the best thing.  Torturer is brutal when played in multiples.  This board does have some ways to clear out curses, but Apprentice is a poor Curse trasher and Lookout doesn't trash from hand so it won't clear be able to clear them immediately.
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 06:33:14 pm »
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I know Torturer is a powerful card when played multiple times, but I don't usually try it when the village doesn't give you an extra card and there's not that great of trashing.  I didn't think about how the fishing village would give me more actions though so that it still would have worked pretty great.  And I don't know why I didn't think of  how the throne room made it a lot better...  :P
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

hsiale

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2013, 06:42:53 pm »
+1

Fishing Village gives more actions than other villages. It's extra action both turn you play it and the one after. This compensates for +1 card (because turn after you play it you get extra action not using any space in your hand).
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 07:11:30 pm »
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Even if a crappy village like Shanty Town is in the kingdom, if ST-Torturer is the best chain that you can muster, then by all means, play ST-Torturer. Once you get the chain going, all but the most resilient BM strats will get stalled with Curses.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2013, 08:04:51 pm »
+1

I know Torturer is a powerful card when played multiple times, but I don't usually try it when the village doesn't give you an extra card and there's not that great of trashing.  I didn't think about how the fishing village would give me more actions though so that it still would have worked pretty great.  And I don't know why I didn't think of  how the throne room made it a lot better...  :P

Fishing village is awesome.
1) It gives money. So it's okay to just get lots of them, you won't be low on cash.
2) THIS turn it gives no cards. But next turn, it's equivalent to a bazaar!
3) It just gives SO MANY actions. This turn AND next turn. If you draw three torturers in hand with no villages, usually you're screwed. But if you had a fishing vilage or two on the LAST turn, you're pretty happy!
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 01:24:27 pm »
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Alright, here I went for a scrying pool engine:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/17/game-20130117-102026-05a4628a.html

It worked pretty well, despite the familiars.  I used minions as a source of income.  I think my opponent was playing suboptimally (he didn't get a chapel till about halfway through the game).  I beat him with 7 provinces.  (Note: I didn't trash my coppers on turn 5 because I knew I would only have 2 coppers left.  I still needed to get some money.)
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 01:35:38 pm »
+1

Alright, here I went for a scrying pool engine:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/17/game-20130117-102026-05a4628a.html

It worked pretty well, despite the familiars.  I used minions as a source of income.  I think my opponent was playing suboptimally (he didn't get a chapel till about halfway through the game).  I beat him with 7 provinces.  (Note: I didn't trash my coppers on turn 5 because I knew I would only have 2 coppers left.  I still needed to get some money.)

Well played, but you probably want a Herbalist for the buy, this way you can get beyond 1Province/turn.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 01:47:31 pm »
0

Alright, here I went for a scrying pool engine:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/17/game-20130117-102026-05a4628a.html

It worked pretty well, despite the familiars.  I used minions as a source of income.  I think my opponent was playing suboptimally (he didn't get a chapel till about halfway through the game).  I beat him with 7 provinces.  (Note: I didn't trash my coppers on turn 5 because I knew I would only have 2 coppers left.  I still needed to get some money.)

Well played, but you probably want a Herbalist for the buy, this way you can get beyond 1Province/turn.

I thought about that, but never acted on it.  I'm not quite sure why...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2013, 02:24:02 pm »
+2

If you're not sure why, here's a guess why!

If you just evaluate buys turn-by-turn, you'll never get that Herbalist. At the time in the game where you might have only $2-$3 to spend, you don't need the +Buy, so it feels like you should buy something that'll help you get your deck going and not that Herbalist which only gives you a measly +$1 and a buy you can't use yet. By the time you have lots to spend, it always feels so wasteful to spend, say, $6 on an herbalist when you can get a minion, or $8 on an herbalist when you could get a province.

Both of those feelings are traps, and will lead you to never get that herbalist. You should be wary of them. You have to plan ahead - either get the Herbalist before you need it, in anticipation that you will later, or overspend to get it.

There's a thread somewhere on this board titled "-Stef- buys Herbalist with $13" or something like that.

It's obviously a tough judgement call sometimes - if you get it too early you'll spend time just using it as a terminal copper, which could hold you back, or if you get it too late you'll only get to use it's buy once or something. Ideally you want to get it just in time - the shuffle before your deck takes off and starts consistently generating $7p, or on the very first turn you're starting to consistently get big spending.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 02:42:58 pm by ftl »
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2013, 02:38:43 pm »
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Here's the thread:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4606

The discussion is very interesting.  And for context, -Stef- is one of the top players on isotropic.  In fact, as of right now, he is #1.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2013, 05:42:53 pm »
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Although, thinking back on it, I barely got more than $8 anyway.  I could have gotten some native villages and some cutpurses, but that might have slowed me down too much.  I'm not sure.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2013, 05:56:17 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/17/game-20130117-145242-4a0ee379.html

I decided to go for a lab engine, but that failed.  Horribly.  Probably due to his familiars.  He seemed to go for mostly BM, and he won.  My buying the last province was basically me saying, "I concede."  I was a little closer than I thought I was, but oh well.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2013, 09:22:59 pm »
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What you should be looking for here is to play familiars to curse your opponent's deck, use apothecaries to draw copper and leave curses/estates on top of your deck, and cleverly use a lookout to trash those bad cards. Once you can do that you can then create an economy and do fancy things with extra golems and council rooms and outpost. Any turn where you trash a copper and buy a silver is essentially wasted since you lose economy, drawing power, and deck control from the apothecaries. The second lookout and island therefore gave no economy and very little long term benefit.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 09:24:13 pm by DG »
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2013, 12:15:37 am »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/17/game-20130117-211126-1a6c1278.html

I generally went for big money, but my opponent started going duchy/duke.  I started buying the duchies as well, and the dukes when they ran out.  I managed to get 4 provinces while he got one, but he still won.  I wasn't sure I would win if I got the last duke, but I knew I would be worse off if I didn't.  I bought it, and he won.  Maybe it all started when he got the witch on his first turn...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2013, 12:26:43 am »
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And my first game ever buying curses:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/17/game-20130117-212247-cfd9d6e5.html

I was trying BM with a lot of actions (with the fishing village being the +actions giver).  I would have gone for an engine, but with the sea hag and no trashing, I didn't think that would be feasible.  After getting three province and the fishing villages ran out, I stupidly thought only one more pile needed to be gone for the game to be over.  I bought all of the estates, then the game kept going.  I realized there were only four more curses left, so I bought them and ended the game.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2013, 12:28:14 am »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/17/game-20130117-211126-1a6c1278.html

I generally went for big money, but my opponent started going duchy/duke.  I started buying the duchies as well, and the dukes when they ran out.  I managed to get 4 provinces while he got one, but he still won.  I wasn't sure I would win if I got the last duke, but I knew I would be worse off if I didn't.  I bought it, and he won.  Maybe it all started when he got the witch on his first turn...

In general, if you don't think you can buy all the Provinces on your own, or you can't end the game before your opponent gets too many Duchies/Dukes, you're better off going for Duchies and Dukes. If you have more than half the Duchies, then Dukes are worth nearly as much as Provinces, for much cheaper.

Additionally, there is no need to go Sea Hag here (or like ever when Masquerade is around). Masquerade will do a good enough job of redistributing Curses (via the passing) that it's not worth sacrificing your economy just to get Sea Hag, which does nothing other than generate Curses. It's much better to have Silver, which will let you start to buy stronger cards.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2013, 12:33:01 am »
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And my first game ever buying curses:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/17/game-20130117-212247-cfd9d6e5.html

I was trying BM with a lot of actions (with the fishing village being the +actions giver).  I would have gone for an engine, but with the sea hag and no trashing, I didn't think that would be feasible.  After getting three province and the fishing villages ran out, I stupidly thought only one more pile needed to be gone for the game to be over.  I bought all of the estates, then the game kept going.  I realized there were only four more curses left, so I bought them and ended the game.

There is trashing, albeit only single-card trashing, from Apprentice. It's not the fastest, but usually you don't have to be so fast in Sea Hag games, which tend to be a bit slow. And since Wharf lets you start with large hands, you really don't need to trash that much to get a reasonably reliable engine going.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2013, 01:16:06 am »
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And my first game ever buying curses:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/17/game-20130117-212247-cfd9d6e5.html

I was trying BM with a lot of actions (with the fishing village being the +actions giver).  I would have gone for an engine, but with the sea hag and no trashing, I didn't think that would be feasible.  After getting three province and the fishing villages ran out, I stupidly thought only one more pile needed to be gone for the game to be over.  I bought all of the estates, then the game kept going.  I realized there were only four more curses left, so I bought them and ended the game.

There is trashing, albeit only single-card trashing, from Apprentice. It's not the fastest, but usually you don't have to be so fast in Sea Hag games, which tend to be a bit slow. And since Wharf lets you start with large hands, you really don't need to trash that much to get a reasonably reliable engine going.

Oh wow, I spaced.  I didn't notice the apprentice when looking for trashing cards.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2013, 01:22:55 am »
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In general, if you don't think you can buy all the Provinces on your own, or you can't end the game before your opponent gets too many Duchies/Dukes, you're better off going for Duchies and Dukes. If you have more than half the Duchies, then Dukes are worth nearly as much as Provinces, for much cheaper.


Yeah. Big Money+Duchy+Duke will typically beat the equivalent Big Money+Province strategy. 7 Duchies and 4 dukes (11 buys of 5-cost cards!) gives more points than 8 provinces (8 buys of 8-cost cards). It's only three buys more, and they're cheaper.

 There's a Duke strategy article from WanderingWinder on the wiki at http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Duke#Strategy_Article .
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 01:25:35 am by ftl »
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2013, 11:55:13 pm »
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Darn.  I just played a game and copied the wrong web address.  Guess I'll have to wait for councilroom to put it up.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2013, 12:27:32 pm »
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If you at least looked at the log then you might be able to pull it from your history.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2013, 12:49:39 pm »
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Ah, I didn't think about that.  Oh well.  Got it now.

http://www.councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20130119-205343-1ed1bd4f.html

I went for vineyards and it worked pretty well.  I could tell I was playing against an inexperienced opponent, so that may have done something.  I used the smugglers and the workshop to gain some of my actions, and I bought some too.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2013, 03:10:06 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/21/game-20130121-120636-71589bdf.html

I was going for BM but with a mix of several actions (the fishing village helped with that).  After my first three provinces I realized I could trash them with the salvager.  After getting 5 provinces with two left, he just said, "k, whatever, gg" and resigned.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2013, 03:24:58 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/21/game-20130121-122240-de535e6c.html

I set up a torturer engine and it worked quite nicely.  I never drew my whole deck, but I still played multiple a turn.  I didn't trash that much, but I usually wanted to play one last torturer instead of playing the steward.  Also, I was thinking about using the coppersmiths he was giving me as my main source of money, but later decided against it.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2013, 05:27:22 pm »
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Quote
Arleon's turn 2
Arleon plays 5 Coppers.
Arleon buys a Tribute.

I'm concerned that the quality of your competition is inhibiting your ability to improve your game.

EDIT: I don't mean that as a slight against you at all; I mean you might be benefited more by stronger opponents, is all. I didn't mean for it to sound demeaning.  :-[
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2013, 06:15:33 pm »
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Quote
Arleon's turn 2
Arleon plays 5 Coppers.
Arleon buys a Tribute.

I'm concerned that the quality of your competition is inhibiting your ability to improve your game.

EDIT: I don't mean that as a slight against you at all; I mean you might be benefited more by stronger opponents, is all. I didn't mean for it to sound demeaning.  :-[

I just wait at an empty spot and whoever comes first I play.  Sometimes it's good players, and other times it's bad players.  And, he actually proposed the game with me that time.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2013, 06:52:55 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/21/game-20130121-154938-e387227f.html

I went for minions, he went for pirate ship.  His trashing my money helped me speed up faster, and I was trashing with my lookout as well.  I also got some native villages and some bridges to allow me to buy multiple things every turn.  After I got three provinces, he suddenly resigned.  He might have still had a chance, he had several coins on his pirate ship mat and lots of native villages...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2013, 07:06:04 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/21/game-20130121-160427-81f54908.html

I used the ironworks to get lots of actions for the vineyards.  Not much else, other than the first time I've bought a transmute (I haven't had alchemy for that long).
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2013, 07:47:20 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/21/game-20130121-154938-e387227f.html

I went for minions, he went for pirate ship.  His trashing my money helped me speed up faster, and I was trashing with my lookout as well.  I also got some native villages and some bridges to allow me to buy multiple things every turn.  After I got three provinces, he suddenly resigned.  He might have still had a chance, he had several coins on his pirate ship mat and lots of native villages...

Read this:

http://dominionstrategy.com/2012/01/02/combo-of-the-day-27-native-villagebridge/

Diverting for Minion probably loses to the NV/Bridge megaturn strategy.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/21/game-20130121-160427-81f54908.html

I used the ironworks to get lots of actions for the vineyards.  Not much else, other than the first time I've bought a transmute (I haven't had alchemy for that long).

You could have also Transmuted some Copper into more Transmutes to bump up Vineyards even more. :)
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2013, 08:31:47 pm »
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native village/bridge it just one of those combos that most experienced players will go for immediately.  And since your opponent is actually speeding you up by trashing copper, it's pretty much a guaranteed win.  Minion vs pirate ship is also an easy win.

Pirate ship is usually a pretty terrible card.

Your ironworks/vineyard game was vs another rather terrible opponent who was also cursed by some awful luck. After you got familiars or turns 3/5 before he even had a potion it was pretty much over for him.  At that point you should just pile drive curses/ironworks/island and put him out of his misery. The library/outpost/transmute/ vineyard stuff was totally unnecessary and simply gave him a chance to comeback with some insane tribute/island luck. I would have just spent all my buys on ironworks, and used all my ironworks on islands.

Part of being a good player is not getting a really high score, but getting up and putting your opponent in a position where there is nothing they can do.  Like in some of your torturer/fishing village games, you had room for 3-4 more torturers to game/over lights out them into taking all 10 curses or discarding their hand every turn.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2013, 01:40:04 am »
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native village/bridge it just one of those combos that most experienced players will go for immediately.  And since your opponent is actually speeding you up by trashing copper, it's pretty much a guaranteed win.  Minion vs pirate ship is also an easy win.

Pirate ship is usually a pretty terrible card.

I didn't notice the native village and the bridge together...  Should've noticed that.

Quote
Your ironworks/vineyard game was vs another rather terrible opponent who was also cursed by some awful luck. After you got familiars or turns 3/5 before he even had a potion it was pretty much over for him.  At that point you should just pile drive curses/ironworks/island and put him out of his misery. The library/outpost/transmute/ vineyard stuff was totally unnecessary and simply gave him a chance to comeback with some insane tribute/island luck. I would have just spent all my buys on ironworks, and used all my ironworks on islands.

Part of being a good player is not getting a really high score, but getting up and putting your opponent in a position where there is nothing they can do.  Like in some of your torturer/fishing village games, you had room for 3-4 more torturers to game/over lights out them into taking all 10 curses or discarding their hand every turn.

I've noticed that I tend to not go for rushes unless I was planning that from the start.  I originally just thought I would get lots of actions, vineyards, etc.  The thought entered my mind at one point, but I just dismissed it quickly for who knows what reason.  I think it's just that I don't like changing in the middle of the game (unless I'm losing and can tell I need a change of strategy).  And I probably should change that.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2013, 01:58:32 am »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/21/game-20130121-225623-4ecb3386.html

I didn't think about setting up a native village/wharf engine at first.  My opponent buying the native villages woke me up and I started buying them.  That probably saved the game for me.  I managed to get 5 provinces by the end.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2013, 02:11:20 am »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/21/game-20130121-230811-2819ebe8.html

Me and my opponent went for vineyards.  Looking back I realized I barely got any actions...  And also, as my opponent pointed out to me, golems and tactitians don't mix well.  I'm not quite sure what made him do so good...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2013, 03:49:51 am »
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native village/bridge it just one of those combos that most experienced players will go for immediately.  And since your opponent is actually speeding you up by trashing copper, it's pretty much a guaranteed win.  Minion vs pirate ship is also an easy win.

Pirate ship is usually a pretty terrible card.

I didn't notice the native village and the bridge together...  Should've noticed that.

Quote
Your ironworks/vineyard game was vs another rather terrible opponent who was also cursed by some awful luck. After you got familiars or turns 3/5 before he even had a potion it was pretty much over for him.  At that point you should just pile drive curses/ironworks/island and put him out of his misery. The library/outpost/transmute/ vineyard stuff was totally unnecessary and simply gave him a chance to comeback with some insane tribute/island luck. I would have just spent all my buys on ironworks, and used all my ironworks on islands.

Part of being a good player is not getting a really high score, but getting up and putting your opponent in a position where there is nothing they can do.  Like in some of your torturer/fishing village games, you had room for 3-4 more torturers to game/over lights out them into taking all 10 curses or discarding their hand every turn.

I've noticed that I tend to not go for rushes unless I was planning that from the start.  I originally just thought I would get lots of actions, vineyards, etc.  The thought entered my mind at one point, but I just dismissed it quickly for who knows what reason.  I think it's just that I don't like changing in the middle of the game (unless I'm losing and can tell I need a change of strategy).  And I probably should change that.

Not probably should. Definitely need. Be constantly aware of piles running low or other ways a game could be ended quickly (ambassadoring a province without putting one back; salvaging a province, etc.). Pursue it if it guarantees you the win. Don't help your opponent to walk that way if you're down, e.g. by draining piles for him (unless you really have to).
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2013, 03:56:15 am »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/21/game-20130121-230811-2819ebe8.html

Me and my opponent went for vineyards.  Looking back I realized I barely got any actions...  And also, as my opponent pointed out to me, golems and tactitians don't mix well.  I'm not quite sure what made him do so good...

Getting 6 provinces but 3 vineyards is not really going for vineyards. And as you said, you didn't get lots of actions. If you really want to go for vineyards, open market/lighthouse, get a steward, spam lots of lighthouses and wishing wells, get markets for more $ and - more important - the + buy - but you don't really want gold or tacticians. And don't contest your opponent on provinces unless you're sure you win by that (c.f. post above).
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2013, 04:27:29 am »
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but you don't really want gold or tacticians.

A bit more on the Tacticians: Tactician is great with the Markets and Lighthouses, but you end up feeling a bit silly when you can't play your Potion.  It's not so obvious that you'd want to avoid them here though.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2013, 09:23:45 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/23/game-20130123-182200-7c5de2eb.html

I went for mostly big money, but got an ambassador and a couple lighthouses on the way.  My opponent built a nobles engine.  I got five provinces, but his nobles won.

EDIT: Oops, I also got a salvager that I thought I would use more than I did.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2013, 09:34:25 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/23/game-20130123-183245-45818306.html

I went for duchy/duke, I thought I had five duchies when I had four.  So I lost.  We each got four duchies and four dukes, but I had more curses.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2013, 09:36:07 pm »
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Quote
I went for mostly big money, but got an ambassador and a couple lighthouses on the way.  My opponent built a nobles engine.  I got five provinces, but his nobles won.

That game could be complicated on a number of different levels. Essentially though, lighthouses help you win the ambassador war here and they will defend against ghost ships later as well. After you've shrunk the deck down there's an opportunity to build an engine since you've got good attacks you'd like to play repeatedly, festivals to provide actions and buys, and lighthouses you want to put into play every turn. The nobles also allow you to build this into a really strong engine without falling irrevocably behind on points.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2013, 10:01:22 pm »
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Quote
I went for duchy/duke, I thought I had five duchies when I had four.  So I lost.  We each got four duchies and four dukes, but I had more curses.

I think the feast/swindler opening was likely to give you a bad start. The three cost cards are all quite useful so it's good to have them in your deck as potential swindle targets and there's no need to skip them with a feast to go directly to witch. Although you do want a turn 3/4 witch it isn't absolutely decisive since the swindlers will mess up their work anyway. In fact, a second swindler could have been better than a second witch. Later on you went into duchies with too little treasure in your deck.

I also feel that your action purchases didn't go together.  There were all doing their own thing but did little to help each other. For example, the warehouse isn't a bad card at sifting a cursed deck but it isn't good when drawn by a witch and does nothing to set up a secret chamber.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2013, 12:19:29 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/23/game-20130123-182200-7c5de2eb.html

I went for mostly big money, but got an ambassador and a couple lighthouses on the way.  My opponent built a nobles engine.  I got five provinces, but his nobles won.

EDIT: Oops, I also got a salvager that I thought I would use more than I did.

I would have opened ambassador/light house and considered masquerade/festival/nobles.  There is way too much engine here to afford losing the ambassador war like you did. You had the potential to eat 2 ambassadors and a ghost ship every turn. without a good supply of lighthouses that is a guaranteed loss.

An engine with ghost ship + masq will absolutely destroy BM every time.  He'll ghost ship you, and you hold onto gold/gold/silver, then he plays masq and passes you a copper.  Now you've got the dreaded 7$ and probably 2 junk cards on top of your deck for next turn.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2013, 01:05:19 am »
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(I got prosperity, so I play with it now)

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/24/game-20130124-220235-4f1d06ac.html

I went for minions with a few conspirators, and he went for conspirators with a few minions.  We each got a masquerade at the beginning, and it wasn't too eventful after that.  I got six provinces while he got two.

I did think about getting the herbalist for the +buy, but realized there were no villages and I would have to get it last, so I didn't get it.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2013, 01:11:37 am »
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Not to burst your bubble, but it's pretty hard to give feedback on games where you outplay your opponent.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2013, 01:14:25 am »
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Not to burst your bubble, but it's pretty hard to give feedback on games where you outplay your opponent.

I know, I've just been posting every single game I play online.  (I play a lot irl too, so I play more than it seems.)  Also, I have had some things said about games I outplay my opponent.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2013, 01:49:07 am »
+1

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/24/game-20130124-224731-a677f3b4.html

I for some weird reason thought that alchemists and minions would go well together.  I was wrong.  He set up an uber-engine and got 7 provinces.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2013, 02:39:05 am »
+1

I for some weird reason thought that alchemists and minions would go well together.  I was wrong.  He set up an uber-engine and got 7 provinces.

Minions in a deck with Alchemists are basically Silvers, Minions against an Alchemiststack are basically "Fine that you put back 5 Alchemists to your deck, but would you please discard them?".
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2013, 02:41:29 am »
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I for some weird reason thought that alchemists and minions would go well together.  I was wrong.  He set up an uber-engine and got 7 provinces.

Minions in a deck with Alchemists are basically Silvers, Minions against an Alchemiststack are basically "Fine that you put back 5 Alchemists to your deck, but would you please discard them?".

Oh man, I didn't think about that.  I mainly thought, "I need to get alchemists to not let him have as many.  They don't seem to confilct with minions, so I'll get them too."  I still don't know why I thought that...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2013, 01:00:51 pm »
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yup, after your opponent went potion you could have just rushed minions and destroyed him.  (open woodcutter/silver). MAYBE woodcutter/lookout.

This board is a perfect opportunity for you to learn how to evaluate.

First, there are 2 incredibly powerful self combos, alchemist and minion. (hunting party and governor also fall into this category). In most games, losing the split on one of those means losing the game. In the same game, because of the /discard your hand attack of minion, it is clearly superior to alch. Even if he gets all 10 alchemists.  Play 2 rabbles, then a minion, and bam, he's back to square 1.

Second, there are some minion powerup cards. lookout and upgrade to thin your deck, and +action (bazaar) with +$ (woodcutter) and throneroom. meaning you can get extra money and buys in the middle of your minion chain. This makes minion clearly the most powerful strategy.

third, There is brutal attack engine potential with bazaar and rabble/ghost ship. Ghost ship is the nastiest attack in the game. Any deck that plays a ghost ship every turn will usually win. Minion is a decent counter to ghost ship however. And ghostship/rabble doesn't work great because he can just put green or copper on top of his deck that he doesn't mind you rabbling.  (plus early on he can put estates on top to make sure lookout hits them.)

4th - Woodcutter is the only + buy here.  In a game like this where you may notice nobody bought a terminal before turn 14, you want to open woodcutter for sure. I suppose you could skip it because of upgrade, and just upgrade estate into 1 later (as your opp did). But in most minion or alchemist games (especially with villages or thronerooms) get those terminal silvers early so you dont have to waste money later. Many minion games come down to a 4/4 split. And if you throw in a woodcutter and steal the last 2 minions on a 10$ turn, you win. And you wont want to waste a 5$ buy on an upgrade in a minion race. (until after you win).
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2013, 02:01:54 pm »
+1

Not to burst your bubble, but it's pretty hard to give feedback on games where you outplay your opponent.

I know, I've just been posting every single game I play online.
Oh dear me, if everyone did that...

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2013, 05:16:42 pm »
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yup, after your opponent went potion you could have just rushed minions and destroyed him.  (open woodcutter/silver). MAYBE woodcutter/lookout.

This board is a perfect opportunity for you to learn how to evaluate.

First, there are 2 incredibly powerful self combos, alchemist and minion. (hunting party and governor also fall into this category). In most games, losing the split on one of those means losing the game. In the same game, because of the /discard your hand attack of minion, it is clearly superior to alch. Even if he gets all 10 alchemists.  Play 2 rabbles, then a minion, and bam, he's back to square 1.

Second, there are some minion powerup cards. lookout and upgrade to thin your deck, and +action (bazaar) with +$ (woodcutter) and throneroom. meaning you can get extra money and buys in the middle of your minion chain. This makes minion clearly the most powerful strategy.

third, There is brutal attack engine potential with bazaar and rabble/ghost ship. Ghost ship is the nastiest attack in the game. Any deck that plays a ghost ship every turn will usually win. Minion is a decent counter to ghost ship however. And ghostship/rabble doesn't work great because he can just put green or copper on top of his deck that he doesn't mind you rabbling.  (plus early on he can put estates on top to make sure lookout hits them.)

4th - Woodcutter is the only + buy here.  In a game like this where you may notice nobody bought a terminal before turn 14, you want to open woodcutter for sure. I suppose you could skip it because of upgrade, and just upgrade estate into 1 later (as your opp did). But in most minion or alchemist games (especially with villages or thronerooms) get those terminal silvers early so you dont have to waste money later. Many minion games come down to a 4/4 split. And if you throw in a woodcutter and steal the last 2 minions on a 10$ turn, you win. And you wont want to waste a 5$ buy on an upgrade in a minion race. (until after you win).

I don't really agree that games are often decided by Alchemist split, but maybe I haven't played enough games.

I think the best attack combo here is Minion->Ghost Ship.  Best 3 of 4 is so much worse than best 3 of 5.  Win the Minion split, pick up a few Bazaars and a couple Ghost Ships and a bunch of Throne Rooms.  Should be great.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2013, 06:21:49 pm »
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Quote
I don't really agree that games are often decided by Alchemist split, but maybe I haven't played enough games.

I think the best attack combo here is Minion->Ghost Ship.  Best 3 of 4 is so much worse than best 3 of 5.  Win the Minion split, pick up a few Bazaars and a couple Ghost Ships and a bunch of Throne Rooms.  Should be great.

In games where both players go alchemist, if it goes 6/4 the person with 4 is in deep trouble. they are much more likely to miss drawing their potion etc.  That being said, alchemist isn't a must buy on many many boards (no +buys, no trashing, etc). 

I really dont think the ghost ship is very effective in this board. It's too easy to leave yourself with a minion and 2 crap cards. I'd rather thin my deck with an upgrade, or add more money/actions with a bazaar.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2013, 06:53:21 am »
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yup, after your opponent went potion you could have just rushed minions and destroyed him.  (open woodcutter/silver). MAYBE woodcutter/lookout.

I don't think this is so clear-cut. First, a lot of the power in Alchemist is in the fact that you can topdeck them, yes, but I think you're also overlooking the fact that it's basically a Lab. And this board is almost a drawing engine's paradise: Alchemist, Bazaar, Rabble, Throne Room, Ghost Ship. Upgrade/Lookout for trashing. The +buy is a little weak here but is alleviated by the fact that Bazaar will generate plenty of actions and Throne Room can double up on Woodcutters. Once the deck has a high enough density of Bazaars, Rabbles, Alchemists, and Ghost Ships, it doesn't care about always starting from a 4-card hand.

Conversely, the Minion stack is much weaker against the attacks on the board. It can't leverage Ghost Ship or Rabble as well because those cards draw and Minion doesn't care about drawing. It's pretty susceptible to Ghost Ship -> Rabble because you're stuck with a 3-card hand and an effectively 1-2 card hand after you Minion for draw (after Minion picks up a bit of green).

I feel like the best option here may be to start contesting the Minions, but don't go too hard for them. If an opponent is clearly going after the Minion stack, try to split it 4-6 while thinning down your deck and transitioning into a drawing engine. 6 Minions is not enough to sustain a deck, and the drawing engine should be very effective at locking down an opponent if he decides to green prematurely.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2013, 08:22:05 am »
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Quote
Conversely, the Minion stack is much weaker against the attacks on the board. It can't leverage Ghost Ship or Rabble as well because those cards draw and Minion doesn't care about drawing.

Minions can respond well to drawing, just not in the same manner as other cards. This is exactly the sort of deck where a big hand of minions and thrones would be very good.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2013, 02:26:31 pm »
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I got kiiiiiilled this game...

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/26/game-20130126-112404-85ec9ec7.html

I decided to go for a village/torturer engine, but I never managed to do much until right near the end.  Meanwhile, my opponent did do it (maybe because of his tactician) and got all eight provinces.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2013, 07:14:27 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/26/game-20130126-161157-8b54a9ed.html

I went for a fishing village/council room engine.  It worked quite well.  I may have overprepared a little, but I was wanting to be able to buy two provinces a turn.  Now I'm realizing I probably should have trashed the pearl divers (or maybe even a few council rooms (especially on that last turn).  I got five provinces but with his extra 9 VP and two duchies he still beat me.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2013, 07:23:34 pm »
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And this one where I went for courtyard-BM (with a market that I got when I had five coins).

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/26/game-20130126-161914-5b130c65.html

I basically went for courtyard-BM.  I didn't quite follow the PPR at the end there, I just thought that if he bought the last province we would tie, and if he didn't I could probably manage a duchy or the last province.  I was kind of scared when he bought the duchy and I couldn't do anything, but I still managed to get the last province.


Now I'm realizing I probably should have trashed the pearl divers (or maybe even a few council rooms (especially on that last turn).

And I realized I should have mentioned that I would trash them with the bishop for more points.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2013, 07:32:50 pm »
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(I'm going on a rampage with these games right now)

I saw lespeutere go on and I couldn't help myself and proposed a game with him.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/26/game-20130126-162837-fa69cc87.html

I was pretty sure I would lose, going against a level 51 opponent who was in the top four in the tournament.  I went for a fishing village/council room engine (again), while he went for something a little different (using some conspirators, wishing wells, and things for the cards more than council rooms).  I wasn't surprised when he beat me.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2013, 07:50:13 pm »
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(alright, this will be my last one for now)

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/26/game-20130126-164814-ca365289.html

I made a native village/wharf engine.  Because of that, the native villages and wharves ran out.  I had bought a couple provinces, so I bought the rest of the wishing wells and won.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2013, 07:15:07 am »
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I decided to go for a village/torturer engine, but I never managed to do much until right near the end.

You bought an island and secret chamber on turns 3 and 4. These were only going to stop you getting a hand of 5 coins urgently needed for mountebank, tactician, etc. Once you have mountebank and tactician the torturers seem less important and you have a variety of continuations available.

Quote
I saw lespeutere go on and I couldn't help myself and proposed a game with him.

No need to ask us what to do, just look what he did.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2013, 03:08:09 pm »
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You seem to like council room engines a little too much.  Giving your opponent an extra card (or 2 or 3) is really really bad when they are setting up their own engines. especially with cards like conspirator out there where getting that extra action turns a crappy turn into a megaturn.

Theres a few other really quick comments.  Opening baron courtyard is a great combo you passed on. in your courtyard BM game.

In that nasty mountebank torturer deck, you could have considered opening steward/steward. In any games with engine potential this is a great opening.  Get your trashing going early.  And if stewards collide it's not a big deal, you just trash 2 cards, and the wasted steward isn't that much worse than a silver.  Tactitcian was key as well. It's great for playing multiple torturers or mountebanks in a single turn, which is when those attacks become their nastiest.  But it also sets up your trashing with stewards as well.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #73 on: January 31, 2013, 04:56:55 pm »
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(I have cornucopia also now, anything on how I use these cards and the prosperity ones would be helpful)

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-135110-f8a0197a.html

I saw the tournament and so had my goal to get prizes asap.  I used the hunting party to get them both in my hand and got a province early (the remodel was trying to remodel a gold into the province, but I managed anyway).  I got all five prizes (those hunting parties helped quite a bit).  Was there anything with how I used the cards that could be better?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #74 on: January 31, 2013, 05:05:43 pm »
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At a 10 second glance.  Royal Seal is in the Kingdom.  I wouldn't prioritize it over HP initially, but obtaining a Royal Seal can help you line up Tournaments/Provinces very well.  Maybe pick one up after your 2nd HP?  I dunno, maybe others have some thoughts about when the ideal time to get one would be.  But I definitely think making use of RS would increase the win percentage.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2013, 05:11:12 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-140856-1a1d2386.html

I'm pretty sure I overprepared this game.  I went for alchemists, getting eight of them, and a lot of grand markets, but he pulled off huge hunting party stacks.  Also, a couple turns I forgot to play all my copper.  Might have won me the game if I did...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2013, 05:11:44 pm »
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With Hunting Party, you probably don't want all the prizes.  I would say Princess would be most useful and Followers would be brutal every turn.

The kingdom has a lot of neat stuff in it though.  Hoard is always fun, and Remodel could be used to turn extra Gold into more Provinces.  Trade Route can be nice for +Buy as well.  With Followers giving out Estates, it will give +$2 easy.  It can be nice for trashing out extra Coppers and Estates from Followers.  Of course, HP doesn't really mind the extra Estates.  If multiple terminals are picked up (Followers, Princess, Remodel, Trade Route) then Fishing Village is a great one to include.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2013, 05:14:05 pm »
0

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-140856-1a1d2386.html

I'm pretty sure I overprepared this game.  I went for alchemists, getting eight of them, and a lot of grand markets, but he pulled off huge hunting party stacks.  Also, a couple turns I forgot to play all my copper.  Might have won me the game if I did...

You didn't need that Festival, really.  You didn't have multiple terminals.  Since you have mostly cantrips, you do not at all need so many Alchemists.  Also, with so many cantrips, Conspirator is very good.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2013, 05:17:18 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-140856-1a1d2386.html

I'm pretty sure I overprepared this game.  I went for alchemists, getting eight of them, and a lot of grand markets, but he pulled off huge hunting party stacks.  Also, a couple turns I forgot to play all my copper.  Might have won me the game if I did...

You actually don't need Alchemist here.  There is enough reliable draw with HP/Caravan and Warehouse for sifting.  Try a solitaire game where you Open with Salvager/Silver.  With your 4's, get a healthy balance of Caravan/Conspirator.  If you get $3, go for Warehouse.  With $5, you want to pound that HP stack.  Festival could be nice for the +Buy, but with no useful terminals, it's power is diminished.  Once you get enough non-copper coin, start getting those GM and gradually shift into Double/Triple Province turn mode.  Remember that Salvager can be used to greatly accelerate the endgame by trashing a Province for $8.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2013, 05:21:36 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-140856-1a1d2386.html

I'm pretty sure I overprepared this game.  I went for alchemists, getting eight of them, and a lot of grand markets, but he pulled off huge hunting party stacks.  Also, a couple turns I forgot to play all my copper.  Might have won me the game if I did...

You didn't need that Festival, really.  You didn't have multiple terminals.  Since you have mostly cantrips, you do not at all need so many Alchemists.  Also, with so many cantrips, Conspirator is very good.

I got the festival trying to push myself up to $6 for the grand market, but didn't think about how a silver would be better.  As for the conspirator, I was thinking about how I was getting so many grand markets...  But I could have gotten them instead of the caravans.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2013, 05:36:25 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-140856-1a1d2386.html

I'm pretty sure I overprepared this game.  I went for alchemists, getting eight of them, and a lot of grand markets, but he pulled off huge hunting party stacks.  Also, a couple turns I forgot to play all my copper.  Might have won me the game if I did...

You didn't need that Festival, really.  You didn't have multiple terminals.  Since you have mostly cantrips, you do not at all need so many Alchemists.  Also, with so many cantrips, Conspirator is very good.

I got the festival trying to push myself up to $6 for the grand market, but didn't think about how a silver would be better.  As for the conspirator, I was thinking about how I was getting so many grand markets...  But I could have gotten them instead of the caravans.

If it was a choice between Festival and Silver, yeah take the Festival.  But you could also take Conspirator, which is better for the deck you had.

Also, if you already have a bunch of cantrips to activate them and you don't need the extra +Buy, it will often be better for you to buy 2 Conspirator instead of 1 Grand Market.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2013, 05:29:44 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/01/game-20130201-142651-454ad87f.html

I went for duchy/duke, but didn't think about how I probably shouldn't trash my coppers at the beginning...  I realized this after getting a moneylender and a lookout.  He got a couple duchies, and four of the dukes.  I realized he might still have a bit of a point lead (I'm not sure if he did, though) and started piledriving the gardens.  We split them, and I won.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2013, 05:40:58 pm »
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All of the victory cards you went for - Duchy, Duke, Gardens - are those which WANT copper in your deck, and yet you opened moneylender/lookout.

You may want to get in the habit of, before making your first buy, envisioning at least roughly what your strategy is going to be; in this game, both the actions you bought were worse for you than Silver, IMO, and didn't fit in to what you were doing. You need to decide whether you want trashing at all before you decide to open with two trashers!
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2013, 05:55:26 pm »
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All of the victory cards you went for - Duchy, Duke, Gardens - are those which WANT copper in your deck, and yet you opened moneylender/lookout.

You may want to get in the habit of, before making your first buy, envisioning at least roughly what your strategy is going to be; in this game, both the actions you bought were worse for you than Silver, IMO, and didn't fit in to what you were doing. You need to decide whether you want trashing at all before you decide to open with two trashers!

I realized that almost right after I bought them.  And I even mentioned it in the post.


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/01/game-20130201-145240-2afde29f.html

I originally planned on a farming village/ghost ship engine, but things started turning strange.  It turned into a golden deck with an engine for a while, but once he started getting duchies and dukes I realized I needed to end the game.  I wasn't wanting to end it that fast because I didn't know if I was in the lead, but I realized that would be my only hope.  I did end up winning, though.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2013, 06:05:24 pm »
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I only had to look at turn 1. Don't buy the secret chamber here until you know how it fits into your deck. You are going to be trashing your estates quickly so secret chamber will probably be a handicap to your economy instead of a boost. Later on it might provide a useful reaction or provide a good discard for coins but you won't want as a passenger in your deck until then.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2013, 06:16:50 pm »
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Yup, you did the same thing again.  Stop going for the most points possible, and just go for more points than are possible for your opponent to get. 

Once you've got a 'golden" deck where you are also playing ghostship every turn, just buy/bishop a province every turn until it's over.  No messing around with outpost etc. look at how many of your outpost turns were totally wasted, or used to buy crap like silvers, which actually slows down/hurts your golden deck.

Also, I would have skipped the secret chamber on the 2/5.  As you can see, you only revealed it once (and it's a pretty poor defense vs ghost ship. And then you upgraded it.  Meaning early game it slowed you down.  Generally SC is pretty terrible, except vs thief/ noble brigand/ pirate. Or some times in grand market or double tact games. SC/herbalist/duchess are usually worth passing up on in a 5/2 start with other viable terminals.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2013, 10:13:59 pm »
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Yup, you did the same thing again.  Stop going for the most points possible, and just go for more points than are possible for your opponent to get. 

Once you've got a 'golden" deck where you are also playing ghostship every turn, just buy/bishop a province every turn until it's over.  No messing around with outpost etc. look at how many of your outpost turns were totally wasted, or used to buy crap like silvers, which actually slows down/hurts your golden deck.

I wasn't sure if I was winning the entire time, but I realized he was rapidly getting points.

Quote
Also, I would have skipped the secret chamber on the 2/5.  As you can see, you only revealed it once (and it's a pretty poor defense vs ghost ship. And then you upgraded it.  Meaning early game it slowed you down.  Generally SC is pretty terrible, except vs thief/ noble brigand/ pirate. Or some times in grand market or double tact games. SC/herbalist/duchess are usually worth passing up on in a 5/2 start with other viable terminals.

Yeah, I'm kind of regretting getting that secret chamber.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #87 on: February 04, 2013, 08:20:54 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/04/game-20130204-171726-6fe25735.html

As I was looking at the cards, I was thinking about maybe trying some mining village/ghost ship engine, but I realized that where was no trashing.  And the sea hag.  I then went for just pure BM+ghost ship.  I'm not sure if this is what I should have done, but I still won in the end.  I didn't follow the PPR, but my deck was getting worse by the moment so I realized I would have to act as soon as I could.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #88 on: February 04, 2013, 09:04:30 pm »
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No reason to not open with Sea Hag here... You may have gotten crushed if your opponent opened Sea Hag/Silver instead of Baron/Silver.

I would consider Vault on this board even despite Ghost Ship because Vault turns Curses into money. If you get hit with a Ghost Ship when you have Vault in hand, just save it for next turn.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #89 on: February 05, 2013, 12:38:20 am »
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No reason to not open with Sea Hag here... You may have gotten crushed if your opponent opened Sea Hag/Silver instead of Baron/Silver.

I would consider Vault on this board even despite Ghost Ship because Vault turns Curses into money. If you get hit with a Ghost Ship when you have Vault in hand, just save it for next turn.

I didn't think about getting Sea Hag when I had decided on my strategy, and when I realized I had forgotten to get one I just decided to stick with it.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2013, 02:28:03 pm »
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as soon as we went baron, I would have gone 2 seahags.  slog him up and make that baron another dead card in his hand.  Then grab vault so those sea hags dont slow you down either.  However your GS BM worked well. It slowed down his cursing. And then he had bad luck on SH, discarding estates instead of good cards.

PS.  Yeah, you don't want to build an "engine" around ghost ship. That's like saying you want to build a village/moat engine.  It aint going to happen. GS/MV is basically a 9$ lab (with a rather nasty attack thrown in of course).  That MV is better off being a silver.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2013, 05:22:06 pm »
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PS.  Yeah, you don't want to build an "engine" around ghost ship. That's like saying you want to build a village/moat engine.  It aint going to happen. GS/MV is basically a 9$ lab (with a rather nasty attack thrown in of course).  That MV is better off being a silver.
Well, Ghost Ship does a very good job of slowing the game down, so you can make some engines you wouldn't otherwise make, including things where Ghost Ship is the primary source of draw, provided there is enough other engine support.

In this kingdom you can't, since there is no trashing, but it's actually possible sometimes. Generally though, yeah, you need a lot more support than engines based off of better drawing cards.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2013, 05:27:07 pm »
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You DO want to build an engine around ghost ship, in general.

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2013, 05:29:26 pm »
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PS.  Yeah, you don't want to build an "engine" around ghost ship. That's like saying you want to build a village/moat engine.  It aint going to happen. GS/MV is basically a 9$ lab (with a rather nasty attack thrown in of course).  That MV is better off being a silver.
Well, Ghost Ship does a very good job of slowing the game down, so you can make some engines you wouldn't otherwise make, including things where Ghost Ship is the primary source of draw, provided there is enough other engine support.

In this kingdom you can't, since there is no trashing, but it's actually possible sometimes. Generally though, yeah, you need a lot more support than engines based off of better drawing cards.

I actually did build one earlier, with upgrade and bishop for trashing and the farming village as my village.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2013, 06:12:55 pm »
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You DO want to build an engine around ghost ship, in general.

Depends on what you mean by "around". It was implied that Jerk of All trades meant using Ghost Ship as the primary source of drawing, not just as the attack.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #95 on: February 06, 2013, 02:42:11 pm »
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You DO want to build an engine around ghost ship, in general.

Depends on what you mean by "around". It was implied that Jerk of All trades meant using Ghost Ship as the primary source of drawing, not just as the attack.

Right.  if an engine is possible, and ghost ship is on the board, build the engine with GS included!  But on a board with no trashing and GS as the only source of draw.  I'd say no engine is possible.  That being said, if you have a crappy engine (like if your only trasher is a slow one, like trading post or something). Your opponents ghost ship is going to seriously hamper any attempts to get your engine to consistently fire.  And most of the time I'm going to just stick to ghost ship+ BM.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #96 on: February 06, 2013, 02:43:59 pm »
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You DO want to build an engine around ghost ship, in general.

Depends on what you mean by "around". It was implied that Jerk of All trades meant using Ghost Ship as the primary source of drawing, not just as the attack.

Right.  if an engine is possible, and ghost ship is on the board, build the engine with GS included!  But on a board with no trashing and GS as the only source of draw.  I'd say no engine is possible.  That being said, if you have a crappy engine (like if your only trasher is a slow one, like trading post or something). Your opponents ghost ship is going to seriously hamper any attempts to get your engine to consistently fire.  And most of the time I'm going to just stick to ghost ship+ BM.
My point is that in such boards, you do want to play an engine most of the time - provided there's a village, of course. The GS attack is ridiculously powerful against BM.

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #97 on: February 06, 2013, 02:52:24 pm »
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My point is that in such boards, you do want to play an engine most of the time - provided there's a village, of course. The GS attack is ridiculously powerful against BM.

Yeah but wouldn't you say that the attack is ridiculously powerful against engines too?  Village, village, ghostship, copper,copper would normally give you a decent shot to get a big hand.  But if you git hit by GS all of a sudden your chance of getting a big +draw card to really get going drops by half.

I think the lesson here is that GS is just ridiculously powerful most of the time. If it's possible to play it a lot (or every turn in engine decks) then do it.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #98 on: February 06, 2013, 02:55:39 pm »
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My point is that in such boards, you do want to play an engine most of the time - provided there's a village, of course. The GS attack is ridiculously powerful against BM.

Yeah but wouldn't you say that the attack is ridiculously powerful against engines too?  Village, village, ghostship, copper,copper would normally give you a decent shot to get a big hand.  But if you git hit by GS all of a sudden your chance of getting a big +draw card to really get going drops by half.

I think the lesson here is that GS is just ridiculously powerful most of the time. If it's possible to play it a lot (or every turn in engine decks) then do it.
Not nearly as much, no. But also, engines let you play it more often. So it's win-win for the engine.

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #99 on: February 06, 2013, 07:18:56 pm »
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I agree that Ghost ship is a strong indicator for engine. You prefer to not rely on it for the draw, but the fact that it makes the game so long tends to favor engine strategies. Additionally, the attack is definitely less painful when you have better cycling ability in your deck.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #100 on: February 07, 2013, 07:42:54 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/07/game-20130207-163756-de320069.html

This probably was both poor play on my part and him starting 5/2 with torturer on the board.  I first was going to try a native village/torturer engine, but he got it set up long before I did.  After getting the trusty steed (I decided not to get followers because the curses were going down anyway) I started going for BM.  It still didn't work too well.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #101 on: February 07, 2013, 11:15:39 pm »
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I don't like your Trusty Steed plays. If you are going purely money after winning the Tournament, you should not take +2 actions unless you have another terminal in your hand. +$2 and +2 cards are both stronger. Additionally, you should have used the 4 Silvers option again on turn 12 and really tried to hit the Duchies hard afterwards, maybe taking another 4 Silvers if you had the chance.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #102 on: February 07, 2013, 11:35:25 pm »
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Yeah, I don't really know the strategy behind that card that well.  I've only recently started playing with it, and I think that was my second time having it.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #103 on: February 08, 2013, 07:09:26 am »
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I'm not entirely convinced that you want to be simply buying a lot of torturers and native villages here, but if you do then you shouldn't open with native village/caravan. This leaves you struggling for a 5 coin hand to buy the first torturer.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #104 on: February 11, 2013, 07:31:09 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/11/game-20130211-162628-f1ad4065.html

I originally was thinking of something with the torturer, but when he opened 5/2 I realized I had to do something else.  I saw hamlet and menagerie and remembered how I've been thinking about how well they go together.  I started going for that engine, and I started getting colonies (while he was getting provinces).  I realized there was only two hamlets and curses and only one menagerie left so I three-piled the game and won.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #105 on: February 11, 2013, 09:44:47 pm »
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If your opponent starts with hamlets, mountebanks, and library/menagerie then you might be in horrible trouble and your bishop would make it worse. The net result of you playing a bishop and your opponent playing a mountebank is awful. I think your final deck has all the right stuff in though.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #106 on: February 12, 2013, 03:34:37 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/12/game-20130212-123243-5e2fe5bf.html

Despite colonies and platinums, I still went for wharf-BM.  I got a salvager, that might have not been a good idea (especially getting it turn 4 instead of earlier).  He did the same thing (but got the salvager earlier) and got five colonies while I got three.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #107 on: February 12, 2013, 05:18:01 pm »
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There's no reason to delay salvager like you did. It's worth just as much money as a silver (when it collides with estate). And it's not like you bought a 3$ terminal.  And, while wharf is good getting to it in turn 3/4 is not as mandatory as the other pwer 5 attack cards out there (mountebank and witch).

A mistake was buying the colony/dutchy on your last turn.  That should have been 2 provinces.  But I guess you were already pretty far behind at that point. And he could end the game any time he got his salvager.

The platinum on turn 17 was also a bad call. Better to get a province and get the point total closer
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #108 on: February 12, 2013, 05:30:29 pm »
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Since you're going to want to mostly be playing Wharf every turn, you really have no chance to play Salvager. It turns out you played it exactly once. Wharf BM really doesn't like other terminals. Also, you probably want to get a second Wharf before Gold since it's really important to just get the deck cycling going. And you needed to start buying Colonies sooner. You're not really trying to build up to really big turns, so just buy Colonies when you can. You definitely don't need 3 Plats first. One is plenty. Maybe 2. You can add more when you fall short of $11.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #109 on: February 12, 2013, 05:49:30 pm »
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I dunno, I'd still open with salv. It's too useful in games like this to end the game when you're up. But I usually concentrate on money over wharves and pray for few collisions.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #110 on: February 12, 2013, 06:15:55 pm »
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^So you're willing to keep that dead Salvager in your deck the whole game just to hopefully play it on the last turn to get an extra Duchy or something? Doesn't seem worth it. If you're going to get one, maybe do it with a spare $4 on an extra buy in the late game.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #111 on: February 12, 2013, 06:44:59 pm »
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Simulator suggests taking a salvager 55-45.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #112 on: February 12, 2013, 06:48:19 pm »
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Simulator suggests taking a salvager 55-45.

If Salvager connects with an Estate, then you don't have any extra dead cards (though you are missing the Silver you could have gotten instead).  If you can use it to get rid of a second Estate, that's probably a net positive.  And then it gives some extra utility at times.  Seems close though!
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #113 on: February 12, 2013, 10:01:45 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/12/game-20130212-185822-e93b3f00.html

That...  Was probably the craziest game I've ever played.  My strategy was to clutter up my deck but have a few king's courts, possessions, and bishops and use my opponents deck to get everything (I realized I didn't need the spies).  We multiple times forgot about things (playing a tactitician on a possessed turn, playing a bishop on a possessed turn, etc.).  We both had no idea who was winning and I ended up winning.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #114 on: February 13, 2013, 04:21:43 pm »
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If you go salvager, and they don't It's really easy to win the duchy dancing (or in this case, province dancing war.) Once it get's down to 2 colonies left, and people keep buying provinces instead. You just salvage a colony and buy a colony for the win.  Or salvage a platinum and buy 2 provinces letting you safely buy colony next turn.  It's not quite as good in colony games because it's hard to get salv+colony+11$.  But especially in wharf games starting with 7 card hands, salvager gives you the ability to end the game on your terms like no other card.  And yes, it will often be a dead card throughout the midgame. But if you buy it first turn, and wharf/money for your next 4 turns, it will probably hit twice.  And I'd take salvager (trashed estate) (trashed copper/estate) over silver - estate - copper in my deck.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #115 on: February 13, 2013, 04:32:54 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/12/game-20130212-185822-e93b3f00.html

That...  Was probably the craziest game I've ever played.  My strategy was to clutter up my deck but have a few king's courts, possessions, and bishops and use my opponents deck to get everything (I realized I didn't need the spies).  We multiple times forgot about things (playing a tactitician on a possessed turn, playing a bishop on a possessed turn, etc.).  We both had no idea who was winning and I ended up winning.

Could have used more Kings courts, and just gone crazy with the bishops and possessions.  I would have skipped the second potion, or bishopped it asap
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #116 on: March 10, 2013, 09:22:55 pm »
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I guess this thread will just die now...  I'm not having too many plans to play on goko (this is not the place to discuss that), and with isotropic going down I won't be able to play on there.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm
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