Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 10  All

Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards  (Read 109221 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

SirPeebles

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +5459
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #150 on: January 22, 2013, 08:31:19 pm »
+2

Wow yeah Dark Ages is doing wonderful things for Menagerie, with Shelters, Ruins, Knights, Spoils, even Hermit/Madman and Urchin/Mecenary.

*Looks at hand of Menagerie and 4 Rats*

Well, mostly wonderful things  :-[
Logged
Well you *do* need a signature...

Powerman

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 766
  • Respect: +605
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #151 on: January 22, 2013, 10:02:32 pm »
0

Comparing the list to my list:
1. Masquerade +1
2. Ambassador -1
3. Swindler +2
4. Fishing Village -1
5. Steward +1
6. Menagerie +2
7. Hermit/Madman +4
8. Watchtower =
9. Urchin/Mercenary +7
10. Market Square =
11. Warehouse -4
12. Forager +1
13. Scheme -5
14. Loan +11
15. Village =
16. Oasis +3
17. Oracle -3
18. Lookout +2
19. Wishing Well +5
20. Storeroom -3
21. Sage -3
22. Tunnel -10
23. Trade Route =
24. Black Market -3
25. Fortune Teller +2
26. Great Hall +2
27. Workshop +2
28. Woodcutter +3
29. Smugglers -3
30. Shanty Town -8
31. Develop -1
32. Chancellor =


Overall thoughts on the 3's.  Trashers are generally underrated.  There are more trashers at 3 than at 4, so you will often open with a 3 trasher and a 4 "other card", as the the 4 nontrashers are normally better than the 3 nontrashers.  Other than that, Shanty Town is criminally overrated, Tunnel is criminally overrated, I overrated Urchin slightly, and scheme is slightly overrated.  I am firmly in the camp of Masquerade > Ambassador, but it's close.  Good list in general though.

Logged
A man on a mission.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #152 on: January 22, 2013, 10:49:49 pm »
+6

I'd say that menagerie is a bit high; it's never been super awesome in my experience, even in a game I just played with hamlet on the board.

There are few things in Dominion better than activating 37 or more Menageries in a row.

FTFY.

   --- GendoIkari's turn 15 ---
   GendoIkari plays a Menagerie.
   ... revealing a King's Court, a Silver, a University, and a Mining Village.
   ... drawing 3 cards and getting +1 action.
   GendoIkari plays a Mining Village.
   ... drawing 1 card and getting +2 actions.
   GendoIkari plays a University.
   ... getting +2 actions.
   ... gaining a Menagerie.
   GendoIkari plays a Menagerie.
   ... revealing a Salvager, a University, a King's Court, a Silver, and a Mining Village.
   ... (GendoIkari reshuffles.)
   ... drawing 3 cards and getting +1 action.
   GendoIkari plays a Mining Village.
   ... drawing 1 card and getting +2 actions.
   ... trashing the Mining Village for +$2.
   GendoIkari plays a Salvager.
   ... trashing a Silver for +$3 and +1 buy.
   GendoIkari plays a Menagerie.
   ... revealing a Menagerie, a Salvager, a University, a King's Court, and a Mining Village.
   ... drawing 3 cards and getting +1 action.
   GendoIkari plays a Menagerie.
   ... revealing a Salvager, an Outpost, a Trading Post, a University, a King's Court, a Silver, and a Mining Village.
   ... drawing 3 cards and getting +1 action.
   GendoIkari plays a Village.
   ... drawing 1 card and getting +2 actions.
   GendoIkari plays a Salvager.
   ... trashing a Silver for +$3 and +1 buy.
   GendoIkari plays a Menagerie.
   ... revealing a Province, an Outpost, a Trading Post, a University, a King's Court, a Silver, and a Mining Village.
   ... drawing 3 cards and getting +1 action.
   GendoIkari plays a Trading Post.
   ... GendoIkari trashes 2 Silvers, gaining a Silver in hand.
   GendoIkari plays a Menagerie.
   ... revealing a Province, a Bank, an Outpost, a University, a King's Court, a Silver, and a Mining Village.
   ... drawing 3 cards and getting +1 action.
   GendoIkari plays a King's Court.
   ... and plays a University.
   ... ... getting +2 actions.
   ... ... gaining a Mining Village.
   ... and plays the University again.
   ... ... getting +2 actions.
   ... ... gaining a Mining Village.
   ... and plays the University a third time.
   ... ... getting +2 actions.
   ... ... gaining a Mining Village.
   GendoIkari plays an Outpost.
   GendoIkari plays a Menagerie.
   ... revealing a Province, a Village, a Bank, an Outpost, a Silver, and a Mining Village.
   ... (GendoIkari reshuffles.)
   ... drawing 3 cards and getting +1 action.
   GendoIkari plays a Mining Village.
   ... drawing nothing and getting +2 actions.
   ... trashing the Mining Village for +$2.
   GendoIkari plays a Mining Village.
   ... drawing nothing and getting +2 actions.
   ... trashing the Mining Village for +$2.
   GendoIkari plays a Silver.
   GendoIkari plays a Bank.
   ... which is worth +$2.
   GendoIkari buys a Province.
   GendoIkari buys a Province.
   (GendoIkari reshuffles.)
   (GendoIkari draws: a Province, a Salvager, and a Bank.)
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #153 on: January 22, 2013, 11:23:49 pm »
0

Having played a fair amount of DA games, while Ambassador is no longer the power opener it once was in Shelter games, Ambassador is still the best 3, no question about it. For the most part, the list seems good, but I would put Market square slightly above, perhaps just ahead of Scheme. It is so much easier to activate than Tunnel, and it is more useful than Tunnel. Tunnel is a dead card until the end game. Market Square at worst is a cantrip, and at best you put its +Buy to use. Two days ago, I played this insane Market Square Engine. The board had Chapel, Watchtower, Market Square, Worker's Village and Wharf. Every turn, I would buy Wharves and WV and then use the spare buys to buy curses which I would turn trash with Watchtower to activate the Market Squares and top deck the golds. Sadly, my opponent resigned fairly quick. I had a feeling with the engine I built that I woudl have stood a good chance of being able to piledrive all three green piles. That would have been epic.
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4085
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #154 on: January 23, 2013, 03:23:07 am »
+1

Having played a fair amount of DA games, while Ambassador is no longer the power opener it once was in Shelter games, Ambassador is still the best 3, no question about it. For the most part, the list seems good, but I would put Market square slightly above, perhaps just ahead of Scheme. It is so much easier to activate than Tunnel, and it is more useful than Tunnel. Tunnel is a dead card until the end game. Market Square at worst is a cantrip, and at best you put its +Buy to use. Two days ago, I played this insane Market Square Engine. The board had Chapel, Watchtower, Market Square, Worker's Village and Wharf. Every turn, I would buy Wharves and WV and then use the spare buys to buy curses which I would turn trash with Watchtower to activate the Market Squares and top deck the golds. Sadly, my opponent resigned fairly quick. I had a feeling with the engine I built that I woudl have stood a good chance of being able to piledrive all three green piles. That would have been epic.

IMO people tend to forget that Tunnel gives you 2VP which is great for a card costing $3. So it's not all about triggering Tunnel's Reaction.

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1119
  • Respect: +786
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #155 on: January 23, 2013, 04:25:29 am »
+1

My opinion : Market square is overrated, ambassador and swindler too, warehouse a little bit.

I already talked about market square.
Ambassador : weaker with DA, and even without DA I think masquerade is better. Because ambassador is usually pretty slow, and masqu give the +2 cards which is very great. I know simulations or high experienced players do not agree, but from my experience, masq is simply always better.

Swindler : I tend to think swindler suffers from DA even more than ambassador or baron, simply because of all these on-trash cards : cultist, fortress, rats, etc... I think I ranked swindler like 6-7 places lower.

I think menagerie is absolutely not overrated, I ranked it at least above fishing village. Also, I'm not sure but I think hermit should be higher : in fact it is not really the power of madman, it's the power of hermit itself, because hermit is just one of the best defense to cursers and looters.

IMO people tend to forget that Tunnel gives you 2VP which is great for a card costing $3. So it's not all about triggering Tunnel's Reaction.

+42
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #156 on: January 23, 2013, 04:38:32 am »
0

I think Swindler is overrated too, at least I always seem to hit Estates with it. :)

And your point about DA is well put, if you hit an Overgrown Estate you're really doing the other guy a huge favor.
It gets progressively worse too. Sure it's fun to turn a Minion into a Counting House or Duke or something, but replacing a Gold with Gold is only bad because your opponent gets to play his Gold less.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #157 on: January 23, 2013, 07:50:58 am »
+2

I think I might put masquerade over ambassador if I did it today, even without considering DA.

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #158 on: January 23, 2013, 12:00:15 pm »
0

For me, Ambassasdor has to be number 1 because it's a consistent junk-giving attack. Masquerade may be the better early-game card, but in the right kingdom (which is most of them), Ambassador is a completely dominant card. It's both your early game trashing AND your sustained attack, which, unlike regular cursers, never runs out of fuel. Maybe it's slightly weaker in shelter games since you can't get those turns where you return 2 Estates, but I don't think the difference is that much, especially since the Necropolis actually helps.

The on-trash cards make Swindler a little weaker, but again, not by that much. It's not like the trashing attacks in DA where you flip 2 cards and 1 is chosen. You just flip one. Unless you're going against a Rats deck, you are mostly not going to have to worry about hitting these cards.

IMO people tend to forget that Tunnel gives you 2VP which is great for a card costing $3. So it's not all about triggering Tunnel's Reaction.

2VP is not "great" for a card costing anything... How often is 2VP going to make more of a difference than having an actually strong card in your deck? Think about it, the 1VP Estates you have in your deck for free, you try to get rid of as fast as possible, and basically never buy for $2. Making it 2VP instead of 1 doesn't all of a sudden make it great... Even 3VP Duchies you pass on in favor of $3-4 cards a lot of the time.
Logged

achmed_sender

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 234
  • Shuffle iT Username: achmedsender
  • Respect: +202
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #159 on: January 23, 2013, 12:12:52 pm »
0

IMO people tend to forget that Tunnel gives you 2VP which is great for a card costing $3. So it's not all about triggering Tunnel's Reaction.

2VP is not "great" for a card costing anything... How often is 2VP going to make more of a difference than having an actually strong card in your deck? Think about it, the 1VP Estates you have in your deck for free, you try to get rid of as fast as possible, and basically never buy for $2. Making it 2VP instead of 1 doesn't all of a sudden make it great... Even 3VP Duchies you pass on in favor of $3-4 cards a lot of the time.

Yes but I think thats where the reaction part matters. 2VP  for 3 is great, but you won't buy it anyway. But if you can use this "dead" cards to do something, it's really good. Because sometimes you can just spam tunnels and discarder and even if the combo does't net you much golds, you still have about 10 victory points.

Market Square is great because it isn't dead when you can't activate (but not often you want to buy market square when you can't activate it enough, so that benefit is maybe less important than most think of), but when youre able to activate it, you have to discard it, as you do with tunnel. But tunnel don't lose its benefit, the 2 VP, when it's triggered.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #160 on: January 23, 2013, 12:18:41 pm »
0

IMO people tend to forget that Tunnel gives you 2VP which is great for a card costing $3. So it's not all about triggering Tunnel's Reaction.

2VP is not "great" for a card costing anything... How often is 2VP going to make more of a difference than having an actually strong card in your deck? Think about it, the 1VP Estates you have in your deck for free, you try to get rid of as fast as possible, and basically never buy for $2. Making it 2VP instead of 1 doesn't all of a sudden make it great... Even 3VP Duchies you pass on in favor of $3-4 cards a lot of the time.

Yes but I think thats where the reaction part matters. 2VP  for 3 is great, but you won't buy it anyway. But if you can use this "dead" cards to do something, it's really good. Because sometimes you can just spam tunnels and discarder and even if the combo does't net you much golds, you still have about 10 victory points.

Market Square is great because it isn't dead when you can't activate (but not often you want to buy market square when you can't activate it enough, so that benefit is maybe less important than most think of), but when youre able to activate it, you have to discard it, as you do with tunnel. But tunnel don't lose its benefit, the 2 VP, when it's triggered.

My point is that 2VP is NOT "great" at all. It's not even good. It's for the most part negligible. Any credit you give to the quality of Tunnel has to mostly be based on the reaction. The 2VP is going to be nearly inconsequential most of the time. And when you'd ever want five Tunnels, other than trying to run out piles, is beyond me...
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 12:19:53 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
Logged

DrFlux

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 161
  • Respect: +68
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #161 on: January 23, 2013, 12:30:01 pm »
0


And when you'd ever want five Tunnels, other than trying to run out piles, is beyond me...

Silk road?

I'm trying to think of other cases, like IGG, but that involves piles running out. There are perhaps other corner cases where the game will end VERY soon, and you have lots of buys, so with 9 and 3 buys, I could see buying 3 tunnels in the case you don't want a province.

I agree with you 2VP is WAY worse than being able to cantrip in general. At the same time I like thinking of counter examples.
Logged

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3388
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #162 on: January 23, 2013, 12:52:24 pm »
0

Yeah... Masquerade is the best $3 card in the game, now that I think about it. I misranked it myself, though. Sorry to let you down, Masq!
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #163 on: January 23, 2013, 12:57:33 pm »
0


And when you'd ever want five Tunnels, other than trying to run out piles, is beyond me...

Silk road?

I'm trying to think of other cases, like IGG, but that involves piles running out. There are perhaps other corner cases where the game will end VERY soon, and you have lots of buys, so with 9 and 3 buys, I could see buying 3 tunnels in the case you don't want a province.

I agree with you 2VP is WAY worse than being able to cantrip in general. At the same time I like thinking of counter examples.

Yeah, I guess my point was that if you're using Tunnels for the reaction, you usually don't want 5 of them.

In rapidly ending games, you grab Tunnels for the VPs, but this has little to do with the power of Tunnel. If Tunnels weren't there, you'd often take Estates instead, so it's hard to say this makes Tunnels strong.

The only case I can think of where you don't care about the reaction but want a lot of Tunnels is 3-piling with cheap VPs. Tunnel alone isn't enough to force this, since 2VPs isn't a lot. But it does add a small pile (in 2 player) worth a reasonable amount of VPs these types of strategies. So you can pile on Silk+Tunnel+Estate or Garden+Tunnel+Estate.
Logged

Drab Emordnilap

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1832
  • Shuffle iT Username: Drab Emordnilap
  • Luther Bell Hendricks V
  • Respect: +1886
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #164 on: January 23, 2013, 01:25:04 pm »
+1

Maybe it's slightly weaker in shelter games since you can't get those turns where you return 2 Estates,

You can't even get those turns where you return ONE Estate(or Shelter), because you can't return them at all. I think the plus from Necropolis is outweighed by being stuck with the other two.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #165 on: January 23, 2013, 01:28:17 pm »
0

Maybe it's slightly weaker in shelter games since you can't get those turns where you return 2 Estates,

You can't even get those turns where you return ONE Estate(or Shelter), because you can't return them at all. I think the plus from Necropolis is outweighed by being stuck with the other two.

Oh I thought you just can't give them out. If you reveal a non-supply card, what happens to it? Anyway, even so, you still have the sustained attack portion of the card, which is really the strong part, moreso than the pseudo-trashing really, imo.
Logged

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1119
  • Respect: +786
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #166 on: January 23, 2013, 01:35:25 pm »
0

Sorry but 2VP for 3$ IS great. I know you wouldn't buy a 2VP simple victory card early in the game, but at the end of the game you will.
And saying 2VP is negligible is absolutely false. Would you buy a noble without the victory points ?

In games with no tunnel enabler, you will still often pick up one late tunnel when you don't have enough for a duchy.
And in games with tunnel enabler, usually the strategy is so good that you can get the 4-4 province split easily, and that's where tunnel is a beast (also, there  are a few strategies involving more than 3 tunnels, tactician + tunnels is not so bad for instance...).

I have the same opinion on island : the action part makes it a pretty good card to purchase during the game, and you have thus a non-negligible point lead in all games with 4-4 province split, and when you don't want the action, you'll take it for VP later.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 01:37:21 pm by brokoli »
Logged

Tdog

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
  • Respect: +133
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #167 on: January 23, 2013, 02:31:31 pm »
0

I think ambassador is still number one as it is a pretty fast "trasher". Its speed just isn't appreciated because we always end up in ambassador wars, but try going without ambassador the other player will go fast. Also head to head I think ambassador would win as it would get rid of the cards faster. This is assuming an engine though, and BM will prefer Masq. Overall, I still think ambassador reigns supreme
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #168 on: January 23, 2013, 02:32:12 pm »
0

Maybe it's slightly weaker in shelter games since you can't get those turns where you return 2 Estates,

You can't even get those turns where you return ONE Estate(or Shelter), because you can't return them at all. I think the plus from Necropolis is outweighed by being stuck with the other two.

Oh I thought you just can't give them out. If you reveal a non-supply card, what happens to it? Anyway, even so, you still have the sustained attack portion of the card, which is really the strong part, moreso than the pseudo-trashing really, imo.

If you reveal a Shelter, it stays in your hand because it has no supply pile to return to. So, Necropolis does not help Ambassador since being able to return estates is much more potent than being able to return coppers.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #169 on: January 23, 2013, 02:37:11 pm »
0

Sorry but 2VP for 3$ IS great. I know you wouldn't buy a 2VP simple victory card early in the game, but at the end of the game you will.
And saying 2VP is negligible is absolutely false. Would you buy a noble without the victory points ?
Nobles is massable. Tunnel is not. If your opponent(s) ignore(s) Nobles, you can buy them all. But Tunnel you don't want to do that.

Quote
In games with no tunnel enabler, you will still often pick up one late tunnel when you don't have enough for a duchy.
I don't think this actually makes a meaningful difference that often at all. Sure you take 2 points, but how often does that result in you winning by 1 point (which is the difference from Estate)?

Quote
And in games with tunnel enabler, usually the strategy is so good that you can get the 4-4 province split easily, and that's where tunnel is a beast (also, there  are a few strategies involving more than 3 tunnels, tactician + tunnels is not so bad for instance...).
I guess this is the main point to argue about. I don't think it's this good "usually". There are a few strong combos, but it's going to be useful much less often than the 3s above it (an a reasonable number of those below it), in my opinion.

Quote
I have the same opinion on island : the action part makes it a pretty good card to purchase during the game, and you have thus a non-negligible point lead in all games with 4-4 province split, and when you don't want the action, you'll take it for VP later.
Island is another beast entirely. Island doesn't waste deck space. It actually saves deck space. It's is essentially 2VP in -1 cards after you play it once, which, in the right situation, can be very useful.
Logged

DrFlux

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 161
  • Respect: +68
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #170 on: January 24, 2013, 09:51:43 am »
0

I think the point HiveMind is getting at is that usually, if there is a tunnel enabler, you don't actually in most cases want to buy a ton of tunnels, and on this point I agree with him: usually 1-3 will suffice, depending on the board. Winning the province split is still the most important thing, and having too many tunnels can hurt your chances of doing that.

2 VP isn't absolutely useless, but it certainly doesn't change the character of the games very much at all, in the way say fairgrounds does.

I think tunnel is awesome with its strongest enablers (warehouse, vault, etc). But its not always the best with weaker enablers, like oracle. I think its at about the right place.
Logged

clb

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 424
  • Respect: +182
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #171 on: January 24, 2013, 10:04:30 am »
0

Maybe it's slightly weaker in shelter games since you can't get those turns where you return 2 Estates,

You can't even get those turns where you return ONE Estate(or Shelter), because you can't return them at all. I think the plus from Necropolis is outweighed by being stuck with the other two.

Oh I thought you just can't give them out. If you reveal a non-supply card, what happens to it? Anyway, even so, you still have the sustained attack portion of the card, which is really the strong part, moreso than the pseudo-trashing really, imo.

If you reveal a Shelter, it stays in your hand because it has no supply pile to return to. So, Necropolis does not help Ambassador since being able to return estates is much more potent than being able to return coppers.

Is this the right interpretation? It makes sense, since there is no "shelters" pile to return things to, but who is to say that there isn't an ever-present, non-supply, perpetually-empty pile of shelters waiting for yours to be returned?
What is the verdict on Ambassadoring other non-supply cards, which do have piles? Prizes, Spoils, Madmen (Madmans?), Mercenaries, etc?
Logged

SirPeebles

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +5459
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #172 on: January 24, 2013, 10:06:18 am »
+1

That's true enough for Tunnels, but the same goes for Market Square. You don't really want to buy all that many of them in most cases.  I've had my share of games where I've overdone the Market Squares.  You think they can't hurt since they're cantrips, but even beyond opportunity cost, they are not functioning as cantrips if you chuck them for Gold every hand.
Logged
Well you *do* need a signature...

SirPeebles

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +5459
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #173 on: January 24, 2013, 10:08:51 am »
+1

Maybe it's slightly weaker in shelter games since you can't get those turns where you return 2 Estates,

You can't even get those turns where you return ONE Estate(or Shelter), because you can't return them at all. I think the plus from Necropolis is outweighed by being stuck with the other two.

Oh I thought you just can't give them out. If you reveal a non-supply card, what happens to it? Anyway, even so, you still have the sustained attack portion of the card, which is really the strong part, moreso than the pseudo-trashing really, imo.

If you reveal a Shelter, it stays in your hand because it has no supply pile to return to. So, Necropolis does not help Ambassador since being able to return estates is much more potent than being able to return coppers.

Is this the right interpretation? It makes sense, since there is no "shelters" pile to return things to, but who is to say that there isn't an ever-present, non-supply, perpetually-empty pile of shelters waiting for yours to be returned?
What is the verdict on Ambassadoring other non-supply cards, which do have piles? Prizes, Spoils, Madmen (Madmans?), Mercenaries, etc?


Ambassador explicitly returns a card to the supply.  You can't return spoils, shelters, prizes, madmen, mercenaries, or cards from the black market deck.
Logged
Well you *do* need a signature...

DrFlux

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 161
  • Respect: +68
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 3/3)
« Reply #174 on: January 24, 2013, 11:35:44 am »
0

Absolutely I agree. But at least with Market Square you have the CHOICE to use them as resources right now, whereas with tunnel you don't have that choice. Tunnels do get in the way sometimes, and they do sometimes actively hurt you when you don't draw them with your enabler. That's why Market Square is clearly better than tunnel, and then you can add in the cantrip +buy, which can be very useful. Both market square and tunnel can have potential in engines, but market square has MORE for many reasons: +buy, trashing is what you want anyways, cantriping.

That's true enough for Tunnels, but the same goes for Market Square. You don't really want to buy all that many of them in most cases.  I've had my share of games where I've overdone the Market Squares.  You think they can't hurt since they're cantrips, but even beyond opportunity cost, they are not functioning as cantrips if you chuck them for Gold every hand.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 10  All
 

Page created in 0.111 seconds with 21 queries.