Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10  All

Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards  (Read 109220 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rabid

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Shuffle iT Username: Rabid
  • Respect: +643
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2013, 03:31:23 pm »
0

But using develop to do cool tricks is so much more fun!
Logged
Twitch
1 Day Cup #1:Ednever

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2013, 04:16:37 pm »
0

The thing is that even if you're planning on Developing expensive stuff, you want to Develop the Estates first anyway.
Logged

shark_bait

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1103
  • Shuffle iT Username: shark_bait
  • Luckyfin and Land of Hinter for iso aliases
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2013, 04:50:02 pm »
0

Shanty Town is definitely overrated IMO.  It's one of those misfit cards where you see, "It's a Village!  I'm doing an Engine!  :)"

Then you realize that Shanty Town as an Engine enabler is virtually impossible.  Throne Room alone is easier IMO.

This card has 3 distinct uses.

1.)  You want an early lab for cycling that will probably not be a lab all game because of other more attractive terminals in your deck.  This is probably the most common use.

2.)  You are running an engine that already has Village support and hey, I guess I can use a Shanty Town for +2 Cards/+2 Actions.  But if you already have an Engine that would benefit from Shanty Town Support, you probably don't even need it in the first place as your Engine is already functioning fine without it.

3.)  There are simply no Terminal Actions on the board that are worth playing.  But there are always* terminals worth playing if Terminals are present.  This case is only relevant when every other card in the Kingdom has a +Action or +2 Actions associated with this.  FYI, this never* happens either.

Simply put, Shanty Town belongs on the Island (Mat?) (Band?)of Misfit cards with the likes of Scout, Chancellor, Transmute, etc... due to each useful function being so dysfunctional for the reason of its use.

*Edge case me, I dare ya  ;)
Logged
Hello.  Name's Bruce.  It's all right.  I understand.  Why trust a shark, right?

Is quite curious - Who is the mystical "Celestial Chameleon"?

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2013, 05:59:49 pm »
+1

Shanty Town is definitely overrated IMO.  It's one of those misfit cards where you see, "It's a Village!  I'm doing an Engine!  :)"

Then you realize that Shanty Town as an Engine enabler is virtually impossible.  Throne Room alone is easier IMO.

This card has 3 distinct uses.

1.)  You want an early lab for cycling that will probably not be a lab all game because of other more attractive terminals in your deck.  This is probably the most common use.

2.)  You are running an engine that already has Village support and hey, I guess I can use a Shanty Town for +2 Cards/+2 Actions.  But if you already have an Engine that would benefit from Shanty Town Support, you probably don't even need it in the first place as your Engine is already functioning fine without it.

3.)  There are simply no Terminal Actions on the board that are worth playing.  But there are always* terminals worth playing if Terminals are present.  This case is only relevant when every other card in the Kingdom has a +Action or +2 Actions associated with this.  FYI, this never* happens either.

Simply put, Shanty Town belongs on the Island (Mat?) (Band?)of Misfit cards with the likes of Scout, Chancellor, Transmute, etc... due to each useful function being so dysfunctional for the reason of its use.

*Edge case me, I dare ya  ;)

4.) There is an engine on the board that wants to play more than 1 terminal, and Shanty Town is the only thing with +2 actions.

5.) There is another village, but no good trashing, so the early game boost from Shanty Town will get your deck going quicker.
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +2017
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2013, 06:08:45 pm »
0

6.) You need the draw, and have enough village support from Fishing Village or something that most of the time you'll be able to play your terminals before you play your Shanty Town.
Logged

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2013, 06:12:50 pm »
0

7.) Disregard this, I just like adding entries to lists.

First time I've ever heard anyone say that.

It's what -Stef- uses Develop for most of the time, and certainly the guy at the top of the leaderboard can't be wrong... (It's also how I use it most of the time.)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 06:15:08 pm by dondon151 »
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2013, 06:36:02 pm »
0

8) Fairgrounds.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3388
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2013, 06:38:40 pm »
0

9) Bane.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2816
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3347
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2013, 06:50:49 pm »
+1

7.) Disregard this, I just like adding entries to lists.

First time I've ever heard anyone say that.

It's what -Stef- uses Develop for most of the time, and certainly the guy at the top of the leaderboard can't be wrong... (It's also how I use it most of the time.)

Not sure if serious... but really, using it to trash Estates really sounds awful. You need to collide with the Estates, which is easy for the first, less so for the 2nd and I'd reckon you end up with at least 1 Estate left (and sometimes 2) more often than not. Getting a $3 on deck is nice each time, but that's still so marginal in value (like, it loses comfortably to BM in sims - although they don't play it perfectly by any means), so you better either have a good reason for wanting to trash Estates and/or the ability to collide it multiple times, or a good use for Develop after the opening.

Really, using it to trash Estates early is slow, it would really surprise me if you were right about that being the main use.
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +2017
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2013, 06:56:21 pm »
0

10) Vineyards
11) Library/Watchtower
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2118
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2013, 07:01:13 pm »
+2

7.) Disregard this, I just like adding entries to lists.

First time I've ever heard anyone say that.

It's what -Stef- uses Develop for most of the time, and certainly the guy at the top of the leaderboard can't be wrong... (It's also how I use it most of the time.)

Not sure if serious... but really, using it to trash Estates really sounds awful. You need to collide with the Estates, which is easy for the first, less so for the 2nd and I'd reckon you end up with at least 1 Estate left (and sometimes 2) more often than not. Getting a $3 on deck is nice each time, but that's still so marginal in value (like, it loses comfortably to BM in sims - although they don't play it perfectly by any means), so you better either have a good reason for wanting to trash Estates and/or the ability to collide it multiple times, or a good use for Develop after the opening.

Really, using it to trash Estates early is slow, it would really surprise me if you were right about that being the main use.

It's not good for trashing Estates in a money deck, so sim isn't going to tell you much. It's a card you generally only want in engines. It hits the first Estate really easy, then maybe a second, but if not, Copper is fine as you get your engine going. Once the engine is going, you can easily match the Develop with whatever you want. Sometimes this is just Estates/Curses/Coppers, and other times it's higher value cards which you can turn into even more high value cards.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2013, 07:02:04 pm »
0

7.) Disregard this, I just like adding entries to lists.

First time I've ever heard anyone say that.

It's what -Stef- uses Develop for most of the time, and certainly the guy at the top of the leaderboard can't be wrong... (It's also how I use it most of the time.)

Not sure if serious... but really, using it to trash Estates really sounds awful. You need to collide with the Estates, which is easy for the first, less so for the 2nd and I'd reckon you end up with at least 1 Estate left (and sometimes 2) more often than not. Getting a $3 on deck is nice each time, but that's still so marginal in value (like, it loses comfortably to BM in sims - although they don't play it perfectly by any means), so you better either have a good reason for wanting to trash Estates and/or the ability to collide it multiple times, or a good use for Develop after the opening.

Really, using it to trash Estates early is slow, it would really surprise me if you were right about that being the main use.

Feel free to join the debate already in progress.
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4085
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2013, 08:14:54 pm »
+1

BTW, what do you guys think about that none of the new Dark Ages cards appeared so far?

ftl

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
  • Shuffle iT Username: ftl
  • Respect: +1345
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2013, 08:19:44 pm »
0

Oh man, you're right. That means we're seriously overrating them, I bet.

I bet sage should be somewhere down here.
Logged

Tdog

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
  • Respect: +133
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2013, 08:21:06 pm »
+1

BTW, what do you guys think about that none of the new Dark Ages cards appeared so far?

I'm surprised foarager has not appeared, I think it's pretty similar to loan. And market square isn't so hot either.
Logged

ftl

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
  • Shuffle iT Username: ftl
  • Respect: +1345
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #65 on: January 10, 2013, 08:37:54 pm »
+1

Market square is pretty good, IMO!

1) In engines, it's cantrip +buy. That is already a pretty nice use.
2) Whenever there's any early trasher, you can open with trasher/MS, trash, and economy will come from golds from MS. Pretty nice. You can get huge messes of gold super-fast.
3) Market Square+Hovel .
Logged

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2816
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3347
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #66 on: January 10, 2013, 08:40:40 pm »
0

Market Square in my experience definitely seems like a power card. It's like Tunnel, but easier to activate, and has a benefit even if it whiffs. I have it 5th, and I don't think I'd want to place it much lower.
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

DrFlux

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 161
  • Respect: +68
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2013, 08:57:44 pm »
0

BTW, what do you guys think about that none of the new Dark Ages cards appeared so far?

I'm surprised foarager has not appeared, I think it's pretty similar to loan. And market square isn't so hot either.

Are you trolling? Market square is fantastic. And forager has lots of applications too, as non-terminal +buy and trashing are fairly rare. I'd say it finds a frequent home in engines. And if there are alternate treasures, and/or incentives to trash treasure (remodel, counterfeit), look out, it just gets silly.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 09:31:42 pm by DrFlux »
Logged

Tdog

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
  • Respect: +133
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2013, 09:03:00 pm »
0

Quote
Are you trolling? Market square is fantastic. And forager has lots of applications too, as non-terminal +buy and trashing are fairly rare. I'd say it finds a frequent home in engines. And if there are alternate treasures, and/or incentives to trash treasure (remodel, contraband), look out, it just gets silly.

No I'm serious here. Market square is good in engines, but useless in Big money, slogs or rush strategies. And forager is usually used for trashing curses, estates or coppers right? For coppers it's just a +1 action, which is worse then loan. It provides money for curses and estates, but most of the time only $1. Loan can't be drawn dead, while this can. Forager will become useless after estates and coppers have been trashed, while loan will provide money still.
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4085
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2013, 09:05:10 pm »
0

Forager will become useless after estates and coppers have been trashed, while loan will provide money still.

So Chapel becomes useless too after you trashed your starting cards. Does this makes it a bad card? I see what you mean but non-terminal trashing is very strong.

Tdog

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
  • Respect: +133
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2013, 09:06:44 pm »
0

The thing about market square is I think it's much better in DA heavy games as they will have more trashing. Otherwise, it has two uses: engines without any other plus buy, or in games with good early trashing. Otherwise, it's useless. The comparison to tunnel is obvious, but tunnel's 2 VP are much better then the plus buy IMO.
Logged

Tdog

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
  • Respect: +133
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2013, 09:09:05 pm »
0

Forager will become useless after estates and coppers have been trashed, while loan will provide money still.

So Chapel becomes useless too after you trashed your starting cards. Does this makes it a bad card? I see what you mean but non-terminal trashing is very strong.

Chapel is so much faster though. The thing with forager is if you buy a bunch you won't have much of an economy early as the plus money is either +1 or zero after trashing a copper. If you buy one it's slow. How is it so much better then loan? They are very similar.
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4085
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #72 on: January 10, 2013, 09:14:21 pm »
0

In my experience you buy only buy 1 Forager. You won't buy 2 Loans too, right?
It gives +buy which is very strong and is very similar to Spice Merchant which is either non-terminal or gives money. Forager has both, but hasn't the possibility to increase hand size.
Loan is strong, but the possibilty to skip over you power cards makes is to risky. You can compare it with Lookout too. Lookout doesn't give money and buy but leaves you with one card more in hand.

If you want Lookout, Forager or Loan is of course board-dependant, but I would rank Forager highest of these 3 cards.

DrFlux

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 161
  • Respect: +68
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #73 on: January 10, 2013, 09:16:51 pm »
0


I think both of your reactions are a result of confirmation bias, where you're noticing the few, low-probability occasions when Black Market has high utility, and not taking into account enough all of the higher-probability, low-utility occasions. Sure, Black Market might win you a game every once in a while, but it's also quite possible that on average, playing Black Market on that board is worse than not playing it.

I think that you miss that you can usually tell roughly how much utility BM will have on average. If you can spare the actions, in a long engine game, BM will be a HUGE asset. Having the only tournament or ghost ship or KC can be easily game winning even if you get it late, and in a slow game, its less of a question that this will happen. I agree, in faster games (no alt vp, etc) the comparison with woodcutter is more valid, with a bit of an occasional "look I win" factor thrown in.
Logged

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2816
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3347
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #74 on: January 10, 2013, 09:20:26 pm »
+1

Quote
Are you trolling? Market square is fantastic. And forager has lots of applications too, as non-terminal +buy and trashing are fairly rare. I'd say it finds a frequent home in engines. And if there are alternate treasures, and/or incentives to trash treasure (remodel, contraband), look out, it just gets silly.

No I'm serious here. Market square is good in engines, but useless in Big money, slogs or rush strategies. And forager is usually used for trashing curses, estates or coppers right? For coppers it's just a +1 action, which is worse then loan. It provides money for curses and estates, but most of the time only $1. Loan can't be drawn dead, while this can. Forager will become useless after estates and coppers have been trashed, while loan will provide money still.

Cantrip+buy is pretty decent already - not exactly a good $3, but probably pretty comparable with some of the other $3's here on it's own. As for the gain effect, it's awesome in BM, very good in most engines (especially, early on it gets your Golds without you needing to buy any, and after you have as many as you want, you can probably utilise the extra buy more), and it's not a bad thing in most other decks. In BM, all it needs is some kind of light trashing - any kind, even upgraders works, and suddenly you have something that can provide you with Golds ~50% of the time you see it in your deck, and is a cantrip if you can't. And some kind of light trashing is pretty common, so that's a good thing. In engines of course you can hit and activate it even more consistently. And it's very good against trashing attacks, of course.

Tunnel's 2 VPs is probably better, unless you need an extra buy, I won't deny that, but Tunnel is also much harder to activate, so many more cards will activate MS reliably, and that's ultimately the main purpose of Tunnel.

Really the key here is, Market Square will be getting you golds probably 50%+ of the time it's on the board, while Tunnel is considerably less.

Forager is pretty good in my limited experience - not great, but decent, above this section. It doesn't give you the extra coin of Loan, true, but then after you've trashed one copper, it trashes Estates and the like for +$1 and a buy, which is nice. It also has the potential to get even stronger in games with trashing attacks, or otherwise the desire to trash silvers. Of course these benefits also apply to your opponents, so caution is needed.
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10  All
 

Page created in 0.188 seconds with 21 queries.