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Author Topic: Decline of civility on isotropic?  (Read 249334 times)

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olneyce

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #475 on: January 11, 2012, 05:18:10 pm »
+3

If I felt like people actually ever meant it when they said "gl" or "gg", I wouldn't mind it, but it's such a formality that it just annoys the heck out of me. I generally try to avoid ever saying it unless I really mean it, and have probably annoyed a few people due to my dislike of them. Oh well.

Agreed, I find it very obnoxious actually.  What's wrong with a simple "Hello"?  that way you're still acknowledging that there's a person there, but you're not being fake, wishing "good luck" when you'd really rather they didn't have better luck than you anyway.

As for "gg"..  if it was *actually* a good game, then fine..  but it's obvious when the game wasn't good by any definition of the term, and if you just beat me 130 to 5 due to an insane goons engine that I couldn't get out from under, then the game was not "good", don't insult me by claiming that it was.  There's no way you'll ever convince me that a "gg" in that circumstance shouldn't be considered incredibly rude.
gg doesn't mean 'Well, friend, that was a really excellent game of Dominion we just played.'  It means 'I acknowledge that you, a human being, just played a game with me.  We both hoped to win, but only one of us did (unless it was a tie).  Thank you for your time.'
gg means good game. How you interpret it is completely up to you.
This is both true and unhelpful.  The literal meaning of a phrase often has very little to do with its social meaning.  'Break a leg' for example, clearly doesn't mean 'I want you to badly injure yourself.'

I think, in most cases, you'll find your life to make more sense if you interpret gg to mean what I said it means.  The same goes with 'how's it going?' and 'nice to meet you' and a bunch of other relatively vacuous social niceties.  People say them because it signals that you're willing to devote the modicum of interest necessary to get along in a social world.  The literal meaning is almost completely irrelevant.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #476 on: January 11, 2012, 05:33:18 pm »
+1

If I felt like people actually ever meant it when they said "gl" or "gg", I wouldn't mind it, but it's such a formality that it just annoys the heck out of me. I generally try to avoid ever saying it unless I really mean it, and have probably annoyed a few people due to my dislike of them. Oh well.

Agreed, I find it very obnoxious actually.  What's wrong with a simple "Hello"?  that way you're still acknowledging that there's a person there, but you're not being fake, wishing "good luck" when you'd really rather they didn't have better luck than you anyway.

As for "gg"..  if it was *actually* a good game, then fine..  but it's obvious when the game wasn't good by any definition of the term, and if you just beat me 130 to 5 due to an insane goons engine that I couldn't get out from under, then the game was not "good", don't insult me by claiming that it was.  There's no way you'll ever convince me that a "gg" in that circumstance shouldn't be considered incredibly rude.
gg doesn't mean 'Well, friend, that was a really excellent game of Dominion we just played.'  It means 'I acknowledge that you, a human being, just played a game with me.  We both hoped to win, but only one of us did (unless it was a tie).  Thank you for your time.'
gg means good game. How you interpret it is completely up to you.
This is both true and unhelpful.  The literal meaning of a phrase often has very little to do with its social meaning.  'Break a leg' for example, clearly doesn't mean 'I want you to badly injure yourself.'

I think, in most cases, you'll find your life to make more sense if you interpret gg to mean what I said it means.  The same goes with 'how's it going?' and 'nice to meet you' and a bunch of other relatively vacuous social niceties.  People say them because it signals that you're willing to devote the modicum of interest necessary to get along in a social world.  The literal meaning is almost completely irrelevant.
I disagree, but I realize I'm in a vast minority.

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #477 on: January 11, 2012, 06:20:22 pm »
0

If I felt like people actually ever meant it when they said "gl" or "gg", I wouldn't mind it, but it's such a formality that it just annoys the heck out of me. I generally try to avoid ever saying it unless I really mean it, and have probably annoyed a few people due to my dislike of them. Oh well.

Agreed, I find it very obnoxious actually.  What's wrong with a simple "Hello"?  that way you're still acknowledging that there's a person there, but you're not being fake, wishing "good luck" when you'd really rather they didn't have better luck than you anyway.

As for "gg"..  if it was *actually* a good game, then fine..  but it's obvious when the game wasn't good by any definition of the term, and if you just beat me 130 to 5 due to an insane goons engine that I couldn't get out from under, then the game was not "good", don't insult me by claiming that it was.  There's no way you'll ever convince me that a "gg" in that circumstance shouldn't be considered incredibly rude.
gg doesn't mean 'Well, friend, that was a really excellent game of Dominion we just played.'  It means 'I acknowledge that you, a human being, just played a game with me.  We both hoped to win, but only one of us did (unless it was a tie).  Thank you for your time.'
gg means good game. How you interpret it is completely up to you.
This is both true and unhelpful.  The literal meaning of a phrase often has very little to do with its social meaning.  'Break a leg' for example, clearly doesn't mean 'I want you to badly injure yourself.'

I think, in most cases, you'll find your life to make more sense if you interpret gg to mean what I said it means.  The same goes with 'how's it going?' and 'nice to meet you' and a bunch of other relatively vacuous social niceties.  People say them because it signals that you're willing to devote the modicum of interest necessary to get along in a social world.  The literal meaning is almost completely irrelevant.
I disagree, but I realize I'm in a vast minority.
You aren't alone.
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DrHades

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #478 on: January 11, 2012, 09:06:18 pm »
0

If I felt like people actually ever meant it when they said "gl" or "gg", I wouldn't mind it, but it's such a formality that it just annoys the heck out of me. I generally try to avoid ever saying it unless I really mean it, and have probably annoyed a few people due to my dislike of them. Oh well.

Agreed, I find it very obnoxious actually.  What's wrong with a simple "Hello"?  that way you're still acknowledging that there's a person there, but you're not being fake, wishing "good luck" when you'd really rather they didn't have better luck than you anyway.

As for "gg"..  if it was *actually* a good game, then fine..  but it's obvious when the game wasn't good by any definition of the term, and if you just beat me 130 to 5 due to an insane goons engine that I couldn't get out from under, then the game was not "good", don't insult me by claiming that it was.  There's no way you'll ever convince me that a "gg" in that circumstance shouldn't be considered incredibly rude.
gg doesn't mean 'Well, friend, that was a really excellent game of Dominion we just played.'  It means 'I acknowledge that you, a human being, just played a game with me.  We both hoped to win, but only one of us did (unless it was a tie).  Thank you for your time.'
gg means good game. How you interpret it is completely up to you.
This is both true and unhelpful.  The literal meaning of a phrase often has very little to do with its social meaning.  'Break a leg' for example, clearly doesn't mean 'I want you to badly injure yourself.'

I think, in most cases, you'll find your life to make more sense if you interpret gg to mean what I said it means.  The same goes with 'how's it going?' and 'nice to meet you' and a bunch of other relatively vacuous social niceties.  People say them because it signals that you're willing to devote the modicum of interest necessary to get along in a social world.  The literal meaning is almost completely irrelevant.

"Break a leg" acctually MEANS "I want you to badly injure yourself." This is because actors thinks that wishes like "good luck" are briging bad luck, so they started to say stuff like "break a leg" and it came to normal speech.
"How|s it going?" - It is an option for the other one to come up with something interesting that happened to them.
"Nice to meet you" - Aren't you? Really? It's nice to meet people, isn't it?

"Good game" - If the game was bad, it may even sound like mocking.

Edit: Minority? Right now it is 3-1 for us...but we might be just lucky to meet here and now ;D
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DsnowMan

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #479 on: January 11, 2012, 09:21:05 pm »
0

Some (many? most?) people say "How's it going" and don't actually want to know the answer. Or, at least, hope you say "Fine, and you?".

I'm with the social convention crowd. I say "gg" to acknowledge the other person. I don't know them, I usually don't care to speak to them, but I will carry on a pleasant conversation if they initiate. Finally, I really don't care if they are offended because the game wasn't good.

I have real friends I play games with, and things are very different. With the anonymous avatars online... gg = thanks for the game.
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DrHades

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #480 on: January 11, 2012, 09:54:51 pm »
0

Some (many? most?) people say "How's it going" and don't actually want to know the answer. Or, at least, hope you say "Fine, and you?".

I am not saying that they give a crap about how are you doing, but they are giving you space to say e.g. "My grandma just died" so they won't come with their thing first if you have something important like this.

I'm with the social convention crowd. I say "gg" to acknowledge the other person. I don't know them, I usually don't care to speak to them, but I will carry on a pleasant conversation if they initiate. Finally, I really don't care if they are offended because the game wasn't good.

I have real friends I play games with, and things are very different. With the anonymous avatars online... gg = thanks for the game.

Ok, so you have real friends and you don't care about chatting with me, but you feel obligated to "acknowledge" me? What the hell do I have from your acknowledgement? I came here to play Dominion and of course it is nice to chat about the game if it was interesting, but I get literally nothing from a "gg".

Question for all you who thinks "gl...gg" and nothing else is polite:

You meet your neighbor in the building and say "Hello." just to be polite. But she is an old lonely lady and likes to talk to other people, so she starts telling you lots of stuff and you really don't care. Isn't it a bit impolite to just walk by her while she is talking?
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ftl

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #481 on: January 11, 2012, 10:35:01 pm »
0

For reference - I find the perfunctory gg completely fine. I play tennis, and in that it's also customary to shake your opponent's hand and say something along the lines of 'good game' or 'nice match' or something like that, regardless of the score or how the game actually went. Seems roughly equivalent to the end-game 'gg wp' which is common in online gaming.
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jonts26

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #482 on: January 11, 2012, 11:00:28 pm »
+6

Anyone who did little league knows that after every game you get the inevitable line-up and good game and high five the other team thing. And there was always that brat who would obnoxiously say 'bad game' and punch your palm. I don't really care where you fall on the whole gg etiquette. Just don't be that kid. He was a prick.
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Kirian

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #483 on: January 12, 2012, 01:47:15 am »
0

Question for all you who thinks "gl...gg" and nothing else is polite:

You meet your neighbor in the building and say "Hello." just to be polite. But she is an old lonely lady and likes to talk to other people, so she starts telling you lots of stuff and you really don't care. Isn't it a bit impolite to just walk by her while she is talking?

You've introduced a different situation though.  I consider that "gl/hf... gg" to be polite (and the lack thereof to be somewhat impolite).  But if my opponent decides to start a conversation with me about the game, or other Dominion-related stuff, I'll happily join such a conversation.  To not do so would also be a bit impolite.
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DrHades

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #484 on: January 12, 2012, 07:22:35 am »
0

Question for all you who thinks "gl...gg" and nothing else is polite:

You meet your neighbor in the building and say "Hello." just to be polite. But she is an old lonely lady and likes to talk to other people, so she starts telling you lots of stuff and you really don't care. Isn't it a bit impolite to just walk by her while she is talking?

You've introduced a different situation though.  I consider that "gl/hf... gg" to be polite (and the lack thereof to be somewhat impolite).  But if my opponent decides to start a conversation with me about the game, or other Dominion-related stuff, I'll happily join such a conversation.  To not do so would also be a bit impolite.

If you read my first post, you'll see that I didn't introduce different situation ;)
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rls22

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #485 on: January 12, 2012, 03:56:11 pm »
0

DrHades, I really think your view that saying only "hello, gl" is rude, is an outlier here.  The analogy to your little old lady scenario is if I say hello, and the other player says hello and then wants to chat about the game/strategy and I ignore them (which would be kind of rude).  It's perfectly common to just pass your neighbors in the hallway and say hello and nothing else...

My view, for what it's worth...

Greeting:  I almost always say something along the lines of "hi there, gl", unless I'm distracted at the beginning of the game and forget.  If I forget, I'm not offended at all if the other person doesn't say anything.  But, I do find it a little weird when I greet someone and they don't greet me back.   

Conversation mid-game:  I almost never talk, but don't mind chatting if the other person wants to.

GG:  I am with olneyce and DsnowMan.  In this community, it basically means, thanks for the game (I do like the Little League analogy too - even if you really hated to lose, you had to say good game...).  So, I almost always say it.  If I really trounce the other person, sometimes I'll say "thanks for the game" (recognizing that the other person might view "gg" as rubbing it in).  If it actually was a particularly great game (maybe 5% of the time?) I will say something more to acknowledge that.
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toaster

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #486 on: January 12, 2012, 05:15:08 pm »
0

If someone says "gg" to a game that wasn't actually good, I'll often say "nah, it really wasn't".  I will however follow that up with a "thanks for the game though".  If typing the phrase "thanks for the game" is too much effort, then a silent exit works just as well with me..."gg" demonstrates to me nothing more than that the person has developed a learned three keystroke reflex, perhaps some people mean it sincerely each time they type it, but there's no way to meaningfully distinguish that from the case where it's just a thoughtless habit.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 05:17:54 pm by toaster »
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #487 on: January 12, 2012, 06:11:21 pm »
0

If someone says "gg" to a game that wasn't actually good, I'll often say "nah, it really wasn't".  I will however follow that up with a "thanks for the game though".  If typing the phrase "thanks for the game" is too much effort, then a silent exit works just as well with me..."gg" demonstrates to me nothing more than that the person has developed a learned three keystroke reflex, perhaps some people mean it sincerely each time they type it, but there's no way to meaningfully distinguish that from the case where it's just a thoughtless habit.
The problem for me(and others) with that is it takes too long. Others will either leave or say gg then consider you rude and leave because you didn't say gg back fast etc.
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ackack

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #488 on: January 12, 2012, 06:16:26 pm »
+1

"gg" demonstrates to me nothing more than that the person has developed a learned three keystroke reflex, perhaps some people mean it sincerely each time they type it, but there's no way to meaningfully distinguish that from the case where it's just a thoughtless habit.

I think that's the thing. Comparing this to face to face interactions is rough because in face to face interactions there are other channels of communication beyond the perfunctory language.
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toaster

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #489 on: January 12, 2012, 06:48:33 pm »
+1

The problem for me(and others) with that is it takes too long. Others will either leave or say gg then consider you rude and leave because you didn't say gg back fast etc.

Well, that's kind of my point.  If anyone isn't willing to spend five seconds at the end of the game to thank the other person, then the whole exercise is really rather a sham: I'd just as soon leave silently at that point, and I hardly think it's reasonable to consider someone rude for not responding if they don't reply to a "gg" within a second or two.
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DrHades

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #490 on: January 12, 2012, 07:56:09 pm »
0

DrHades, I really think your view that saying only "hello, gl" is rude, is an outlier here.  The analogy to your little old lady scenario is if I say hello, and the other player says hello and then wants to chat about the game/strategy and I ignore them (which would be kind of rude).  It's perfectly common to just pass your neighbors in the hallway and say hello and nothing else...

My view, for what it's worth...

Greeting:  I almost always say something along the lines of "hi there, gl", unless I'm distracted at the beginning of the game and forget.  If I forget, I'm not offended at all if the other person doesn't say anything.  But, I do find it a little weird when I greet someone and they don't greet me back.   

Conversation mid-game:  I almost never talk, but don't mind chatting if the other person wants to.

GG:  I am with olneyce and DsnowMan.  In this community, it basically means, thanks for the game (I do like the Little League analogy too - even if you really hated to lose, you had to say good game...).  So, I almost always say it.  If I really trounce the other person, sometimes I'll say "thanks for the game" (recognizing that the other person might view "gg" as rubbing it in).  If it actually was a particularly great game (maybe 5% of the time?) I will say something more to acknowledge that.

Again - I don't find gg rude (after a bad game it is funny, but not rude). I think that "hello-gg" is very rude if you don't answer to whatever giberish your opponent says in the middle. That's my point all the time, but sometimes I have problem to make myself clear (even in my native language)  ;D
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Kirian

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #491 on: January 12, 2012, 09:40:19 pm »
+1

You've introduced a different situation though....
If you read my first post, you'll see that I didn't introduce different situation ;)
Ah, going back a page or two, I see that.  Someone who says "gl hf" and "gg" and nothing else is, IMO, just fine if the other player engages in no other conversation.  It rubs me the wrong way when I do try to add more to the conversation and there's no response, so I can agree with you on that point.

However, if the entire conversation is "glhf... gg" from both players, I find that in no way impolite.  It looks a bit strange to those not otherwise into computer games, I suppose.
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #492 on: January 13, 2012, 04:12:21 am »
+3

To me I think gg has kind of changed to mean, "thanks for spending the time to compete with me, no one cheated, it was an honorable game."  I see people saying "bg" as exploiting a semantic technicality.

It's silly to hold gg to the standard that it has to be an assessment of the quality of the game.  The winner can honestly miss where luck favored him heavily, or disagree that it did, or perhaps even think it did when the loser feels that he lost due to poor strategy and felt it really was a good game and learning experience.


It's ok to substitute "thanks for playing" instead of gg if you want to.  Just don't be the guy that refuses to shake my hand because you drafted 22 crappy black cards and a Grave Titan and think it's lady fortune's fault you lost when the Titan is halfway through your deck.
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chogg

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #493 on: January 13, 2012, 05:40:28 am »
0

To me I think gg has kind of changed to mean, "thanks for spending the time to compete with me, no one cheated, it was an honorable game."

Yes, I think you nailed it here.
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Kahryl

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #494 on: January 13, 2012, 01:05:29 pm »
0

gg means "I value your presence at least enough to type three characters that are not necessary for me to play the game".  It's not a LOT, but it is different from a thoughtless reflex because you could abandon it and still play Dominion just fine.
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permanoob

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #495 on: January 13, 2012, 08:53:07 pm »
0

17:44 Kaplow!: gay
17:44 Permanoob: don't say gat
17:44 Permanoob: gay
17:44 Kaplow!: y?
17:45 Permanoob: it's not nice to homosexuals
17:45 Kaplow!: fine
17:45 Kaplow!: fag
17:45 Kaplow!: i am gay cocksucker
17:45 Permanoob: Fag is also a curse word
17:46 Kaplow!: PLAY
17:46 Permanoob: also I really don't care if you're gay
17:47 Kaplow!: FASTER
17:48 Permanoob: you're being impolite
17:50 Kaplow!: you're being a sore loser. you suck at this game!
17:50 Kaplow! has returned to the lobby.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/13/game-20120113-175012-99aac32b.html

Here's the game log. I was one point behind. I hate this guy so much.
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barsooma

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #496 on: January 13, 2012, 09:00:27 pm »
0

17:44 Kaplow!: gay
17:44 Permanoob: don't say gat
17:44 Permanoob: gay
17:44 Kaplow!: y?
17:45 Permanoob: it's not nice to homosexuals
17:45 Kaplow!: fine
17:45 Kaplow!: fag
17:45 Kaplow!: i am gay cocksucker
17:45 Permanoob: Fag is also a curse word
17:46 Kaplow!: PLAY
17:46 Permanoob: also I really don't care if you're gay
17:47 Kaplow!: FASTER
17:48 Permanoob: you're being impolite
17:50 Kaplow!: you're being a sore loser. you suck at this game!
17:50 Kaplow! has returned to the lobby.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/13/game-20120113-175012-99aac32b.html

Here's the game log. I was one point behind. I hate this guy so much.

That's why you always use a point counter.
Must be especially annoying since in hindsight you would've won if you didn't take that last curse.
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #497 on: January 14, 2012, 12:05:53 am »
0

17:44 Kaplow!: gay
17:44 Permanoob: don't say gat
17:44 Permanoob: gay
17:44 Kaplow!: y?
17:45 Permanoob: it's not nice to homosexuals
17:45 Kaplow!: fine
17:45 Kaplow!: fag
17:45 Kaplow!: i am gay cocksucker
17:45 Permanoob: Fag is also a curse word
17:46 Kaplow!: PLAY
17:46 Permanoob: also I really don't care if you're gay
17:47 Kaplow!: FASTER
17:48 Permanoob: you're being impolite
17:50 Kaplow!: you're being a sore loser. you suck at this game!
17:50 Kaplow! has returned to the lobby.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/13/game-20120113-175012-99aac32b.html

Here's the game log. I was one point behind. I hate this guy so much.
Honestly, the line "don't say gay" on the internet is the worst thing to say. That line causes bad conversations lol. And is leaving bait for trolls.
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #498 on: January 14, 2012, 05:05:57 am »
0

What's with revealing the Trader 3 times?
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #499 on: January 14, 2012, 08:36:33 am »
+1

17:44 Kaplow!: gay
17:44 Permanoob: don't say gat
17:44 Permanoob: gay
17:44 Kaplow!: y?
17:45 Permanoob: it's not nice to homosexuals
17:45 Kaplow!: fine
17:45 Kaplow!: fag
17:45 Kaplow!: i am gay cocksucker
17:45 Permanoob: Fag is also a curse word
17:46 Kaplow!: PLAY
17:46 Permanoob: also I really don't care if you're gay
17:47 Kaplow!: FASTER
17:48 Permanoob: you're being impolite
17:50 Kaplow!: you're being a sore loser. you suck at this game!
17:50 Kaplow! has returned to the lobby.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/13/game-20120113-175012-99aac32b.html

Here's the game log. I was one point behind. I hate this guy so much.
Honestly, the line "don't say gay" on the internet is the worst thing to say.

Please tell me you aren't serious....
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