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Author Topic: Decline of civility on isotropic?  (Read 249707 times)

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barsooma

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #450 on: January 09, 2012, 04:42:46 pm »
0

I'm telling you, it never pays to talk to people... most only want to talk when they are so upset with the game that they'd rather rant than play.
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Fabian

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #451 on: January 09, 2012, 07:24:46 pm »
0

I have something of an irrational hatred for premature gg's, as my opponents somehow seem to win 98%* of the games where they say it to me. I don't know how that's possible, maybe the gg tilts me into making terrible decisions or something.

*Exaggeration
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barsooma

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #452 on: January 09, 2012, 08:13:25 pm »
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I have something of an irrational hatred for premature gg's, as my opponents somehow seem to win 98%* of the games where they say it to me. I don't know how that's possible, maybe the gg tilts me into making terrible decisions or something.

*Exaggeration

To me, a pre-ending gg carries with it an expectation that the person is going to resign when they next have the chance... I am always baffled when someone says it then carries on with the game. Maybe they are looking for extra congratulations if they manage to pull off a comeback?
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Voltgloss

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #453 on: January 09, 2012, 08:17:56 pm »
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Strangest exchange I've ever had on isotropic:

14:59 chwhite: hi gl
15:00 ****: of course
15:01 ****: gg
15:04 ****: what is it with folks that won't gg back?
15:04 ****: it's over and you know it
15:06 ****: fucking asshole
15:06 chwhite: sorry, I was goign to gg when the game was actually over?
15:06 chwhite: *going
15:06 ****: it's been over for a long time
15:07 chwhite: I've always thought it was poor form to gg when it was still goign on, sorry
15:07 ****: only if you are winning and do it first
15:08 ****: do you honestly think I'm going to come back and beat you?
15:10 chwhite: gg
15:10 ****: asshole

So if the opponent's "gg" was when you bought Tournament from the BM deck... was your "gg" when you paired it with a Province?  Bonus hilarity points if so. 
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #454 on: January 09, 2012, 08:50:59 pm »
+1

If I felt like people actually ever meant it when they said "gl" or "gg", I wouldn't mind it, but it's such a formality that it just annoys the heck out of me. I generally try to avoid ever saying it unless I really mean it, and have probably annoyed a few people due to my dislike of them. Oh well.
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chwhite

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #455 on: January 09, 2012, 08:55:00 pm »
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Strangest exchange I've ever had on isotropic:

14:59 chwhite: hi gl
15:00 ****: of course
15:01 ****: gg
15:04 ****: what is it with folks that won't gg back?
15:04 ****: it's over and you know it
15:06 ****: fucking asshole
15:06 chwhite: sorry, I was goign to gg when the game was actually over?
15:06 chwhite: *going
15:06 ****: it's been over for a long time
15:07 chwhite: I've always thought it was poor form to gg when it was still goign on, sorry
15:07 ****: only if you are winning and do it first
15:08 ****: do you honestly think I'm going to come back and beat you?
15:10 chwhite: gg
15:10 ****: asshole

So if the opponent's "gg" was when you bought Tournament from the BM deck... was your "gg" when you paired it with a Province?  Bonus hilarity points if so. 

Nah, my "gg" was when the game was when the last Province was bought and the game was over (I won, but not actually by all that much).  Had I said "gg" when I paired the Tournament with a Province, then well that would be a jerk move and my opponent would have every reason to complain about me here!
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Fabian

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #456 on: January 09, 2012, 09:01:16 pm »
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I have something of an irrational hatred for premature gg's, as my opponents somehow seem to win 98%* of the games where they say it to me. I don't know how that's possible, maybe the gg tilts me into making terrible decisions or something.

*Exaggeration

To me, a pre-ending gg carries with it an expectation that the person is going to resign when they next have the chance... I am always baffled when someone says it then carries on with the game. Maybe they are looking for extra congratulations if they manage to pull off a comeback?


Yup same here. That's the non-irrational part of my dislike about premature gg's though, I guess :)
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #457 on: January 09, 2012, 09:12:12 pm »
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If I felt like people actually ever meant it when they said "gl" or "gg", I wouldn't mind it, but it's such a formality that it just annoys the heck out of me. I generally try to avoid ever saying it unless I really mean it, and have probably annoyed a few people due to my dislike of them. Oh well.

I always mean it when I say hf... maybe not so much gl though, I want to save some luck for myself! :)
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sjelkjd

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #458 on: January 09, 2012, 09:45:03 pm »
+1

Strangest exchange I've ever had on isotropic:
...

Pretty weird.  Dominion reminds me of StarCraft as far as gg etiquette goes, but if someone ggs I expect they'll resign immediately or they're being sarcastic.  In this case since he didn't resign on his next turn but kept playing I would have assumed he was either making a joke or trolling you.   Saying gg and then continuing to play is pretty stupid.  Now, in StarCraft, when you resign you leave the game, so it's typical to wait for the reply(*edit if you are expecting one) and then resign, but on isotropic, you can just hang out in the room for a little bit.  Maybe he wasn't aware of that?

tldr: ignore the jerk
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Kirian

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #459 on: January 10, 2012, 01:34:30 am »
+1

If I felt like people actually ever meant it when they said "gl" or "gg", I wouldn't mind it, but it's such a formality that it just annoys the heck out of me. I generally try to avoid ever saying it unless I really mean it, and have probably annoyed a few people due to my dislike of them. Oh well.

I always mean it when I say hf... maybe not so much gl though, I want to save some luck for myself! :)

Personally, I want both my opponent and me to have exactly the same amount of good luck.  If either of us gets incredibly lucky/unlucky, the game just doesn't feel as good to win/lose.
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Axxle

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #460 on: January 10, 2012, 01:54:18 pm »
0

If I felt like people actually ever meant it when they said "gl" or "gg", I wouldn't mind it, but it's such a formality that it just annoys the heck out of me. I generally try to avoid ever saying it unless I really mean it, and have probably annoyed a few people due to my dislike of them. Oh well.

I always mean it when I say hf... maybe not so much gl though, I want to save some luck for myself! :)

Personally, I want both my opponent and me to have exactly the same amount of good luck.  If either of us gets incredibly lucky/unlucky, the game just doesn't feel as good to win/lose.

That's what I meant.  I guess I just didn't explain myself well.
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DrHades

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #461 on: January 10, 2012, 10:33:08 pm »
+1

I don't really care whether my opponent talks at all, but what I hate is when all he types is "hf gl" and then "gg" and leaves. Ok, sometimes the game was not interesting and there is nothing to say, but I take his "hf", "hello" or whatever as an conversation starter, so I am expacting that he will answer when I say something.

My point: If you don't wanna talk at all, typing "gl" isn't polite, but more rude then saying nothing. Polite is to to talk about the game when one of you has something interesting to say (even if it is just "maaan, I am sooo unlucky :(((", I think it is nice to say "yes, you are, sorry :(")
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Mean Mr Mustard

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #462 on: January 10, 2012, 10:52:04 pm »
+1

but if someone ggs I expect they'll resign immediately or they're being sarcastic.  In this case since he didn't resign on his next turn but kept playing I would have assumed he was either making a joke or trolling you.   Saying gg and then continuing to play is pretty stupid. 

I am guilty of this.  I prematurely gg sometimes when I expect I am about to lose, but then don't.  Or I have decided to resign but then my opponent makes a massive blunder that gives me a chance.  No sarcasm intended.
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glasser

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #463 on: January 11, 2012, 01:09:14 am »
0

I am guilty of this.  I prematurely gg sometimes when I expect I am about to lose, but then don't.  Or I have decided to resign but then my opponent makes a massive blunder that gives me a chance.  No sarcasm intended.

Yeah, I got a gg from an opponent today after I played a relatively early KC-KC-Bridge-Bridge.
Which is really quite a different beast from KC-KC-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge :)  I went on to lose.
(The other key cards on the board were Chapel and Tactician; Tactician was the only card doing anything like nonterminal draw, and I really should have bought one earlier, since otherwise even if my deck consists entirely of KCs, Bridges, and a Chapel, the chance of getting the magic hand is pretty low...)
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Anon79

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #464 on: January 11, 2012, 02:54:31 am »
+1

But with King's Courts, you don't need non-terminal draws to achieve the magic combo.
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Kirian

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #465 on: January 11, 2012, 09:27:34 am »
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I don't really care whether my opponent talks at all, but what I hate is when all he types is "hf gl" and then "gg" and leaves. Ok, sometimes the game was not interesting and there is nothing to say, but I take his "hf", "hello" or whatever as an conversation starter, so I am expacting that he will answer when I say something.

My point: If you don't wanna talk at all, typing "gl" isn't polite, but more rude then saying nothing.

This conversation again!

In general, in online gaming communities, acknowledging the presence of an opponent is good form.  "gl/hf" or some variant thereof is common in multiple online games, including BSW, which is the closest thing we have to a "precursor" to isotropic.  (In fact, about a third of the time on BSW you get vg/vs[(viel Glück, viel Spass] instead of gl/hf.)

Gl/hf is not rude at all.  It is, in fact, standard.  Some, including myself, find it rude when people fail to acknowledge there's another human being at the other end of the connection rather than an AI.
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DrHades

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #466 on: January 11, 2012, 10:20:14 am »
0

I don't really care whether my opponent talks at all, but what I hate is when all he types is "hf gl" and then "gg" and leaves. Ok, sometimes the game was not interesting and there is nothing to say, but I take his "hf", "hello" or whatever as an conversation starter, so I am expacting that he will answer when I say something.

My point: If you don't wanna talk at all, typing "gl" isn't polite, but more rude then saying nothing.

This conversation again!

In general, in online gaming communities, acknowledging the presence of an opponent is good form.  "gl/hf" or some variant thereof is common in multiple online games, including BSW, which is the closest thing we have to a "precursor" to isotropic.  (In fact, about a third of the time on BSW you get vg/vs[(viel Glück, viel Spass] instead of gl/hf.)

Gl/hf is not rude at all.  It is, in fact, standard.  Some, including myself, find it rude when people fail to acknowledge there's another human being at the other end of the connection rather than an AI.

I think you understand me incorrectly. I don't believe that moral and ethics laws are absolute and objective, so I am just saying my opinion. Yes, if 90% of people in a community agrees that something is polite, then it is polite (e.g. in chess, it is very rude to not handshake with your opponent at the start and at the end of the game), but I don't think your opinion is the opinion of 90% of the community...
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #467 on: January 11, 2012, 10:34:12 am »
0

I don't really care whether my opponent talks at all, but what I hate is when all he types is "hf gl" and then "gg" and leaves. Ok, sometimes the game was not interesting and there is nothing to say, but I take his "hf", "hello" or whatever as an conversation starter, so I am expacting that he will answer when I say something.

My point: If you don't wanna talk at all, typing "gl" isn't polite, but more rude then saying nothing.

This conversation again!

In general, in online gaming communities, acknowledging the presence of an opponent is good form.  "gl/hf" or some variant thereof is common in multiple online games, including BSW, which is the closest thing we have to a "precursor" to isotropic.  (In fact, about a third of the time on BSW you get vg/vs[(viel Glück, viel Spass] instead of gl/hf.)

Gl/hf is not rude at all.  It is, in fact, standard.  Some, including myself, find it rude when people fail to acknowledge there's another human being at the other end of the connection rather than an AI.

I think you understand me incorrectly. I don't believe that moral and ethics laws are absolute and objective, so I am just saying my opinion. Yes, if 90% of people in a community agrees that something is polite, then it is polite (e.g. in chess, it is very rude to not handshake with your opponent at the start and at the end of the game), but I don't think your opinion is the opinion of 90% of the community...
Morality is objective. Polity is different entirely, and is not objective.

DrHades

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #468 on: January 11, 2012, 10:59:25 am »
0

I don't really care whether my opponent talks at all, but what I hate is when all he types is "hf gl" and then "gg" and leaves. Ok, sometimes the game was not interesting and there is nothing to say, but I take his "hf", "hello" or whatever as an conversation starter, so I am expacting that he will answer when I say something.

My point: If you don't wanna talk at all, typing "gl" isn't polite, but more rude then saying nothing.

This conversation again!

In general, in online gaming communities, acknowledging the presence of an opponent is good form.  "gl/hf" or some variant thereof is common in multiple online games, including BSW, which is the closest thing we have to a "precursor" to isotropic.  (In fact, about a third of the time on BSW you get vg/vs[(viel Glück, viel Spass] instead of gl/hf.)

Gl/hf is not rude at all.  It is, in fact, standard.  Some, including myself, find it rude when people fail to acknowledge there's another human being at the other end of the connection rather than an AI.

I think you understand me incorrectly. I don't believe that moral and ethics laws are absolute and objective, so I am just saying my opinion. Yes, if 90% of people in a community agrees that something is polite, then it is polite (e.g. in chess, it is very rude to not handshake with your opponent at the start and at the end of the game), but I don't think your opinion is the opinion of 90% of the community...
Morality is objective. Polity is different entirely, and is not objective.
I am not a native speaker so I really don't understand how could this be true :)
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #469 on: January 11, 2012, 12:14:07 pm »
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I think you understand me incorrectly. I don't believe that moral and ethics laws are absolute and objective, so I am just saying my opinion. Yes, if 90% of people in a community agrees that something is polite, then it is polite (e.g. in chess, it is very rude to not handshake with your opponent at the start and at the end of the game), but I don't think your opinion is the opinion of 90% of the community...

I don't have hard numbers, obviously, but I suspect the first half of my opinion (i.e., it's standard) is shared by a supermajority of the community.  Finding the lack of it rude, probably not as much.

Morality is objective. Polity is different entirely, and is not objective.

No!  No more worm cans in this thread.
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #470 on: January 11, 2012, 12:25:41 pm »
+1

No!  No more worm cans in this thread.

Rats!  I was just about to Abortion the Gay Marriage before Religioning the Politics.
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #471 on: January 11, 2012, 01:14:24 pm »
+1

Just played a game as Karr where I was trouncing someone with a village/Rabble/Margrave chain. I was drawing/playing my whole deck but was clicking pretty quickly.. but then:

15:13 ∞: play faster
15:13 Karr: I was waiting for you to discard!
15:13 ∞: you are just sitting there now
15:13 Karr: I was typing!
15:13 Karr: TO YOU
15:13 ∞: just play - you type and play too slowly
15:14 ∞: later, you should stick to table games
15:14 ∞ has returned to the lobby.

∞ is a clown. He bought the last province to beat me 33-25 once. Before I could even "gg" him, he types "owned" and disappears to the lobby. If you check his profile, you'll notice he's lost 229 games. His score was -100 in 157 of them.
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #472 on: January 11, 2012, 02:06:06 pm »
+1

If I felt like people actually ever meant it when they said "gl" or "gg", I wouldn't mind it, but it's such a formality that it just annoys the heck out of me. I generally try to avoid ever saying it unless I really mean it, and have probably annoyed a few people due to my dislike of them. Oh well.

Agreed, I find it very obnoxious actually.  What's wrong with a simple "Hello"?  that way you're still acknowledging that there's a person there, but you're not being fake, wishing "good luck" when you'd really rather they didn't have better luck than you anyway.

As for "gg"..  if it was *actually* a good game, then fine..  but it's obvious when the game wasn't good by any definition of the term, and if you just beat me 130 to 5 due to an insane goons engine that I couldn't get out from under, then the game was not "good", don't insult me by claiming that it was.  There's no way you'll ever convince me that a "gg" in that circumstance shouldn't be considered incredibly rude.
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #473 on: January 11, 2012, 04:32:08 pm »
+4

If I felt like people actually ever meant it when they said "gl" or "gg", I wouldn't mind it, but it's such a formality that it just annoys the heck out of me. I generally try to avoid ever saying it unless I really mean it, and have probably annoyed a few people due to my dislike of them. Oh well.

Agreed, I find it very obnoxious actually.  What's wrong with a simple "Hello"?  that way you're still acknowledging that there's a person there, but you're not being fake, wishing "good luck" when you'd really rather they didn't have better luck than you anyway.

As for "gg"..  if it was *actually* a good game, then fine..  but it's obvious when the game wasn't good by any definition of the term, and if you just beat me 130 to 5 due to an insane goons engine that I couldn't get out from under, then the game was not "good", don't insult me by claiming that it was.  There's no way you'll ever convince me that a "gg" in that circumstance shouldn't be considered incredibly rude.
gg doesn't mean 'Well, friend, that was a really excellent game of Dominion we just played.'  It means 'I acknowledge that you, a human being, just played a game with me.  We both hoped to win, but only one of us did (unless it was a tie).  Thank you for your time.'
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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #474 on: January 11, 2012, 04:43:46 pm »
+2

If I felt like people actually ever meant it when they said "gl" or "gg", I wouldn't mind it, but it's such a formality that it just annoys the heck out of me. I generally try to avoid ever saying it unless I really mean it, and have probably annoyed a few people due to my dislike of them. Oh well.

Agreed, I find it very obnoxious actually.  What's wrong with a simple "Hello"?  that way you're still acknowledging that there's a person there, but you're not being fake, wishing "good luck" when you'd really rather they didn't have better luck than you anyway.

As for "gg"..  if it was *actually* a good game, then fine..  but it's obvious when the game wasn't good by any definition of the term, and if you just beat me 130 to 5 due to an insane goons engine that I couldn't get out from under, then the game was not "good", don't insult me by claiming that it was.  There's no way you'll ever convince me that a "gg" in that circumstance shouldn't be considered incredibly rude.
gg doesn't mean 'Well, friend, that was a really excellent game of Dominion we just played.'  It means 'I acknowledge that you, a human being, just played a game with me.  We both hoped to win, but only one of us did (unless it was a tie).  Thank you for your time.'
gg means good game. How you interpret it is completely up to you.
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