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Author Topic: Decline of civility on isotropic?  (Read 191427 times)

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popsofctown

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #375 on: November 08, 2011, 02:20:00 pm »
0

I firmly disagree that it would ever be courteous to refuse somebody's resignation. Again: It's not my prerogative to expect you to play out a losing game. My feeling slighted out of a turn or three of my rad engine is not inherently more virtuous than your boredom or dejection about playing out a losing string; it would simply be presumptuous for me to assign my feelings more virtue than yours.

Well put. 


I'll happily stick around to play out a multiplayer game, if I somehow got into the multiplayer game in the first place (they're not my favorite).  I can understand wanting someone to make things play out mor normally.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #376 on: November 08, 2011, 02:22:14 pm »
0

its because its a Colony game and I'm just not at that skill level to handle it
You know, there's one excellent way to fix that..  :P
Realize that colony games DON'T require more skill than non-colony games, just  somewhat different set of skills?

ChaosRed

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #377 on: November 08, 2011, 02:52:54 pm »
0

The fact that it is different, makes it more difficult for a novice player like me. Also the design becomes warped (in my opinion), to a rather fast, elegant pursuit of Provinces, to a rather laborious and cumbersome accumulation of both Provinces and Colonies. Prosperity also tends to reward the "mega-turn" deck, which I find really boring. It's a matter of taste really, rather than debate. We can argue until we're blue in the face as to whether a corporate Molson in a brown bottle is vastly inferior to some dusty micro-brew on tap. The beer snob can point to all kinds of reasoning and argument, but my taste buds will still disagree with him. :)

At some point I may acquire the taste, but right now, I am simply not interested.
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popsofctown

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #378 on: November 08, 2011, 02:53:58 pm »
0

its because its a Colony game and I'm just not at that skill level to handle it
You know, there's one excellent way to fix that..  :P
Realize that colony games DON'T require more skill than non-colony games, just  somewhat different set of skills?

None of which I have :(

Since there's a tangent here anyway, do you think colony games are more variant or less variant than province games?  I ask this not to whine, but because I want to know how much doubt to cast on the success/failure of a strategy I try out.
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rrenaud

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #379 on: November 08, 2011, 02:56:35 pm »
+1

I am pretty convinced there is more skill in a Colony game than a Province game for basically the same reason that there is more skill involved in winning a best of 3 series of Dominion games than just a single Dominion game.
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guided

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #380 on: November 08, 2011, 02:57:34 pm »
0

If it's a 2p game, I more or less agree with you.
That's all I'm talking about.
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popsofctown

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #381 on: November 08, 2011, 02:59:24 pm »
+1

That's not "more skill", as in, a broader body of knowledge you need to master.  It's "less variant" or "better sample size" or "better skill:luck ratio in game result".

I'll stick to workshops against colonies, then.
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ackack

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #382 on: November 08, 2011, 03:02:57 pm »
0

I am pretty convinced there is more skill in a Colony game than a Province game for basically the same reason that there is more skill involved in winning a best of 3 series of Dominion games than just a single Dominion game.
Extending the average length of the game a couple of turns is not going to be a big contribution. And this also neglects that Platinum likely increases the swinginess. (added: as another example of this sort of thing, Mountebank games will be quite a bit longer than an average no-attack Province game. But I bet they also reward the skilled player less than average, even though there are a few more turns for things to even out.)

I think WanderingWinder is right that Colony games and Province games reward slightly different skill sets. I also think that most good Dominion players are inclined toward finding the engine-biased Colony game more interesting and more exemplary of what they consider skill.
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octopus

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #383 on: November 08, 2011, 05:01:47 pm »
0

I have a 2p account and got it up to the mid-20's, but then I found I was obsessing over my rank too much and so decided to play a bunch of unranked games under this new alias.  I soon found I enjoyed the 3p/4p games quite a lot, and so decided to register the account, and my ranking soon shot back up to the mid-20's.  All of my ranked games with it are 3p/4p.  It's especially convenient with the gmail and yahoo options: gmail is 2p, yahoo is 3p/4p, and I just click on the account type I want. 

I find that player psychology is a lot more important in multiplayer games.  The lowest-ranked player can end up being a kingmaker, and being aware of this adds a neat dynamic.  If that includes them resigning, then so be it... at least it means I won't come in last place.  The 12 provinces or colonies vs. 8 isn't such a big deal, you just have to accomodate more cards in your deck.  Besides, if there's 2 people left, I get to play 50% of the time, and that can be a slight quality-of-play bonus. 

There are games I've lost in 3rd place against two level 0's that I would never lose in 2p.  I wouldn't say it's because 3p/4p is more swingy, it's just that you generally need more than card counting and minmaxing to win.  I wish more high-level players would play 3p/4p... then I could restrict the opponent rank to +/- 5 levels like I do with 2p.  Things I like about multiplayer are that all attack cards become more interesting, and choices about cards that involve the player to your left or right are also interesting, because their effect can depend on the skill of those players, e.g. smugglers, possession, and even envoy.

Back on topic: the only type of resign I find aggravating, even in multiplayer games, is when I have to wait for 3 minutes.  It's possibly worse in multiplayer games because then 2 or 3 people have to wait for 3 minutes.  I think that in an unknown number of cases it isn't because the person is being passive aggressive, so I'm not going to comment on whether they're being rude or not.  Maybe they just close the tab without thinking about it.  I'm not sure what the exit link does.  If it's the same as resigning, why bother having the resign button at all?  (I've never resigned from a game except once when my connection died.)  And since I can force resign people in the middle of my turn, I think anyone should be able to resign at any point in the game; having to wait for the beginning of your turn seems arbitrary and more likely to induce the 3-minute timeouts.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 05:13:14 pm by octopus »
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fp

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #384 on: November 10, 2011, 09:10:45 am »
0

I just want to confess that I've certainly thrown my mouth at players who start to berate me for playing too slow when I am able to draw my whole deck (and in general they are not).

Anyone else lost it in this case?

The funny thing is that I tell them I am one of the fastest players around, and they laugh at me.

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Mean Mr Mustard

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #385 on: November 11, 2011, 09:48:25 pm »
0

I am very happy to report that tlloyd and I played a three game match last night and he was a great sport.  Respec.
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IsoDom2 Winner: Rabid
Isodom3 Winner: Fabian</b>
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Kirian

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #386 on: November 13, 2011, 01:58:29 am »
0

I am very happy to report that tlloyd and I played a three game match last night and he was a great sport.  Respec.

Respec?  But I like playing feral!
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Graystripe77

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #387 on: November 15, 2011, 01:56:58 pm »
0

And another, i made him resign, he didn't say anything until right after i resigned him:

13:52 th2w0: wow
13:53 th2w0: GRAY
13:53 th2w0: FUCK YOU
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Epoch

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #388 on: November 15, 2011, 02:32:57 pm »
0

Yeah, anybody who expects me to ask permission to resign is going to be sadly disappointed.  In 2p, which is all I play.  On the flip-side, I don't like to ask people to hurry through their turn so that I can resign more quickly, either.
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fellowmartian

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #389 on: November 21, 2011, 06:56:42 am »
0

A game just now.
Quote
0:42 theron: simpel 2/5 start end viktory
0:42 Fang: you could have gone watchtower
0:42 Fang: that's a hard counter to margrave
0:43 Fang: instead of black market and no trashers
0:43 theron: ???
0:43 Fang: there was for example no point you picking up crossroads
0:44 Fang: If I was you, I'd have gone for watchtower and hamlets asap
0:44 Fang: and gone for the margrave with my first $5 instead of laboratory
0:44 theron: hey you get the Margrave and tje Hamlet and also the most Peddler what the fuck tell you for a shit???
0:44 Fang: I'm just giving you some friendly advice
0:45 Fang: there are things you could have done
0:45 theron: you telling simply shit i had no chance in this game because of your 2/5 start thjats the simple true
0:45 Fang: that's not even slightly true.
0:46 theron: if i had the 2/5 star i will witrh this cards simply win
0:46 Fang: really.
0:46 theron: and you too
0:46 Fang: I hate players like you
0:47 Fang: who blame luck when they plainly had no idea what they are doing
0:47 Fang: when you bought poition/bm... why?
0:47 Fang: potion
0:47 theron: and i hate players like you
0:47 Fang: for learning the game?
0:47 Fang: resign now then, and rematch
0:48 theron: make your turn ready than i can give up and you can be proud of your wisdomm
He then refused to play a rematch with identical starting hands.

Grr, yes, something you get bad shuffle luck, but people who use that as an excuse when they played badly throughout... so damn annoying.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201110/20/game-20111020-164827-cc1d3235.html

Yeah I had an odd one from that player. On a 5/2 I opened with Embargo/Ghost Ship while s/he went for a potion. When I embargoed the Alchemists, s/he accused me of being aggressive (okay, maybe slightly but understandably), said I just play dominion to make the  other player feel small and myself powerful, and basically said players like me spoil the game.

S/he then proceeded to buy more Ghost ships and attack cards and beat me, lol...
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Lekkit

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #390 on: November 21, 2011, 07:30:42 am »
0

Just played this game, which I won and my opponent wanted to have a little chat with me.

13:22 Bubs: stupid novice
13:22 Lekkit: ?
13:22 Bubs has returned to the lobby.
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AJD

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #391 on: November 23, 2011, 01:33:52 am »
0

This isn't a "civility" issue per se, but my opponent bought the last Province and the following baffling exchange happened:

Quote
The game is over! (All Provinces are gone.)
AJD has 24 points (4 Provinces) and took 12 turns.
v3ck has 20 points (4 Provinces and 4 Curses) and took 12 turns.

1:28 v3ck: ? ? ? ? ? ?
1:28 AJD: ...What do you mean?
1:28 v3ck: weird shuffles?
1:29 v3ck has returned to the lobby.

No, v3ck, it wasn't weird shuffles; it was I bought a Witch and you didn't. What did you think was going to happen?
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #392 on: November 25, 2011, 04:11:00 pm »
0

21:06 Rambo888: what a piece of shit you are
21:08 Rambo888: lol
21:09 Rambo888: faggot , got scared
21:09 Rambo888: aww
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Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

Mergus

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #393 on: November 30, 2011, 11:49:36 pm »
0

21:36 Copper-nicus: f u!
21:36 [MAD] Mergus: ?
21:36 Copper-nicus: JEW HEARD ME!
21:38 Copper-nicus: !!!
21:38 Copper-nicus: focus!
21:44 Copper-nicus: [MAD] Gay
21:46 Copper-nicus: [MAD] Slow
21:46 Copper-nicus: [MAD] Retarded
21:46 Copper-nicus: haha
21:47 Copper-nicus: [MAD] Sucky
21:47 Copper-nicus: Do any of these handles appeal to you?
21:47 Copper-nicus: I'm thinking of changing mine so I can fit in...
21:48 Copper-nicus: [MAD] Indecisive
21:48 Copper-nicus: haha
21:48 Copper-nicus: fag
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permanoob

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #394 on: December 01, 2011, 12:35:45 am »
0

When Isotropic is replaced with some method of playing dominion that requires payment, I assume most of these people will be gone.
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v3ck

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #395 on: December 01, 2011, 01:53:36 am »
+1

This isn't a "civility" issue per se, but my opponent bought the last Province and the following baffling exchange happened:

Quote
The game is over! (All Provinces are gone.)
AJD has 24 points (4 Provinces) and took 12 turns.
v3ck has 20 points (4 Provinces and 4 Curses) and took 12 turns.

1:28 v3ck: ? ? ? ? ? ?
1:28 AJD: ...What do you mean?
1:28 v3ck: weird shuffles?
1:29 v3ck has returned to the lobby.

No, v3ck, it wasn't weird shuffles; it was I bought a Witch and you didn't. What did you think was going to happen?

I was distracted and something got mixed up in my head, then said something rather odd. I admit that I do that occasionally. However, it really doesn't belong in this thread (even if you say it isn't really a civility issue). I don't appreciate being disgraced by being quoted among the people saying things like "fuck you", "faggot", and "piece of shit".
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AJD

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #396 on: December 01, 2011, 02:10:49 am »
+1

This isn't a "civility" issue per se, but my opponent bought the last Province and the following baffling exchange happened:

Quote
The game is over! (All Provinces are gone.)
AJD has 24 points (4 Provinces) and took 12 turns.
v3ck has 20 points (4 Provinces and 4 Curses) and took 12 turns.

1:28 v3ck: ? ? ? ? ? ?
1:28 AJD: ...What do you mean?
1:28 v3ck: weird shuffles?
1:29 v3ck has returned to the lobby.

No, v3ck, it wasn't weird shuffles; it was I bought a Witch and you didn't. What did you think was going to happen?

I was distracted and something got mixed up in my head, then said something rather odd. I admit that I do that occasionally. However, it really doesn't belong in this thread (even if you say it isn't really a civility issue). I don't appreciate being disgraced by being quoted among the people saying things like "fuck you", "faggot", and "piece of shit".

I apologize for that, v3ck; you don't deserve that. In my defense, perhaps, I did note at the top of my post that you hadn't been uncivil; I was just perplexed by your comment.
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Manto

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #397 on: December 01, 2011, 02:35:32 am »
0

Whats your guys take on offering advice to new players?

For example, sometime ago I played against someone who is registered but not yet ranked.  He proceeded to load up on villages and caravans and didn't pick up any Gold until I've started greening, which was a common mistake new players make.  When the game ended, he made a comment that he had bad shuffles and didn't get good draws.

I pondered for a bit, debating if I should offer some unsolicited advice.  I figured he is a fairly new player, so I ended up telling him that "rememberto buy treasure as well as building your engine".  He wasn't offended, though he also didn't really take my advice.  We left the game after exchanging 'gg'.

In real life, I like to engage in conversation and sometimes it leads to giving advice when I know my fellow player is pretty new to the game.  However, I feel that it may come off as inappropriate more often online since the in-game exchange is so short that it usually is very impersonal.

What do you guys think?
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Qvist

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #398 on: December 01, 2011, 02:48:30 am »
0

Whats your guys take on offering advice to new players?

For example, sometime ago I played against someone who is registered but not yet ranked.  He proceeded to load up on villages and caravans and didn't pick up any Gold until I've started greening, which was a common mistake new players make.  When the game ended, he made a comment that he had bad shuffles and didn't get good draws.

I pondered for a bit, debating if I should offer some unsolicited advice.  I figured he is a fairly new player, so I ended up telling him that "rememberto buy treasure as well as building your engine".  He wasn't offended, though he also didn't really take my advice.  We left the game after exchanging 'gg'.

In real life, I like to engage in conversation and sometimes it leads to giving advice when I know my fellow player is pretty new to the game.  However, I feel that it may come off as inappropriate more often online since the in-game exchange is so short that it usually is very impersonal.

What do you guys think?

It happened to me once as I played a against a Newbie (at least it seemed so), I gave him an advice. But he felt offended like "How dare I to give HIM an advice?"
I think, there's no problem to give an advice, but at least ask for permission, because not everyone likes advices. They may feel criticized and may not see, we want to help. They may also think we just want to brag and show how good we are. So, at least, ask "May I give you some well meant advice?"

FarHorizon

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Re: Decline of civility on isotropic?
« Reply #399 on: December 03, 2011, 08:45:13 pm »
0

Avoid 22/7

I played a game with him today & around turn 7 he started asking me to play faster (I'm not the fastest player out there, but I've only had one other complaint about speed & that was during a scrying pool game).  A few turns later he just starting cussing at me with all the sophistication of a 12 year old. 

Shortly he resigned by becoming unresponsive.  I glanced at his game history and a significant % of his games end with " 22/7 resigns from the game (client disconnected or unresponsive)."  I wonder why these people even bother ..
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