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[mcmcsalot]

she just means let kooshie reread everything, there is a reason I am not posting much there is very little for me to say but there is much for kooshie to read, I agree to letting kooshie read as long as possible.

[Kooshie]

I'm going to hammer tomorrow at the latest.  After that I will not have great and often access to this and the internet and such for four or five days, so if by some chance I don't get NKed, it'll be why I'm not posting.  Not that I am now.. Sorry!!!

Right now, mcmc looks pretty scummy.  He said he was worried about people thinking that what he was saying about everything for scum setting things up for them.  Of course he would be worried!  If he's scum, he doesn't want people to know he's scum!  and if he's town, he doesn't want to lynch himself, along with town!  Along all the reasons raerae has said, which I don't feel the need to repeat.  Sudgy stated reasons, too, but I personally find raerae's more helpful.

But then there you go.  Me not liking sudgy's reasons.  He's all over shady.  Like liopoil said, he's covered a bunch of stuff up with, that's just me and how I play.  I understand, it's newbie stuff.  I was very tempted to do that very same thing on many of my posts.  Efhw said IMO a lot.  But sudgy...  he might as well have flat out said, "Don't judge me, because I'm me!" and, of course, because all the reasons liopoil and mcmc have said nI find him scummy.  But mostly liopoil.  Mcmc's reasons I think aren't quite as good as liopoil's, but definitely better than sudgy's.  Could this be a coincidence?  The two people I have to choose from to lynch both have slightly less helpful reasons for me?  I think not.  I'm staying with my former thoughts of a mcmc/sudgy team.

raerae and liopoil's reasons have been very convincing, and have brought me over to each side many times.  Now I'm on both sides, but I do find it more likely for sudgy to be scum.  Not with raerae, but mcmc.  I'm still not going to vote...  I'm sorry to keep you hanging, but I'd like a few more minutes to think...

Wait, actually, isn't the deadline the 22nd?  maybe I'll hammer later than tomorrow.

[sudgy]

raerae, I would be all for taking our time if there was anything left for us to say.

This was what I was thinking too.  I would rather get on with the game than just sit here doing nothing.  Any way of getting on with it would be fine.

Raerae, I'll try to reread liopoil at some point (probably not this very moment, but soon) and say why I think he's scummy.  I remember thinking he was scummy earlier, but I can't quite remember why...  Although mcmc's trying to redirect efhw's vote on D1 from liopoil is something I can remember right now...

[sudgy]

Alright, managed to get that done sooner than expected.  First, he was lurking a fair bit at first.  A bit later, we were talking about how lurking is scummy and he suddenly started posting more.  He seemed to be tunneling a bit on kooshie, not that much though.  One big thing is that until recently (when suggesting me/mcmc as a scum team) he has never considered mcmc as scum.  He never mentions anything about mcmc being scummy when almost everybody else did.  Also, sometimes, when someone thought of lynching someone other than mcmc, he usually would jump onto it (I can provide examples of this if you want).

[raerae]

Exact quotes would be helpful if you can.

[raerae]

Also, I have somebody coming into town for the weekend so not sure how much I'll be around.  Ash/Jorbles, when exactly is deadline again? 

Kooshie, if you can hold off hammering until I post my case on lio, please do.  I don't want to die without having given you quoted reasoning.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 3.8:

mcmcsalot (2): raerae, sudgy {L-1}
sudgy (2): mcmcsalot, liopoil {L-1}

Not Voting (1): Kooshie

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 3 ends on February 22 at 4:00 p.m. forum time.

[sudgy]

(I looked at all of liopoil's posts and found a whole lot of posts that showed him going for the town and never for mcmc (or more, never even mentioning him).  It is probably too much.  Oh well.)

(Also, I didn't quote any of his case on Kooshie, you should remember that)

I would be okay with LALL today. It's been proven to work surprisingly well. Would also consider a sudgy lynch now that kooshie probably won't be lynched today. I need to re-read sudgy.

For LALL I don't think robz deserves his V/LA pass anymore. It's been a couple days since and his posting hasn't increased much.

If we LALL that day, who would die?  Two townies.

So if we LALL it should be robz or mail-mi, as they have half of everyone else. Among the other 7 of us we are all within 17 posts of each other. As of now I do not think it is fair to accuse anyone that isn't robz888 or mail-mi of lurking. However, the two of them are lurking so bad that lynching one of them may be our best bet. miss-lynching a lurker does not hurt nearly as much as lynching a non-lurker, because lurkers weren't contributing much in the first place anyway. As for which of robz/mail-mi we should lynch if we decide to lynch a lurker, I am not sure.

Same thing here.

@raerae: I do not really support a mail-mi lynch. At this point I would really prefer a robz888 lynch to a mail-mi lynch, for reasons I've mentioned. I still would like to lynch kooshie more than either one, but it seems at this point the rest of the town is pretty much set on LALL

He could also have been wanting to lynch robz because he was a vet and would be more dangerous.  And he's still mentioning Kooshie (confirmed town).

My order of who to lynch, from my choice lynch to worst lynch:

kooshie
robz888
mail-mi
EFHW
sudgy
Jimmmmm
Mcmcsalot
raerae
Liopoil

Four on the top six are dead.  All were town.  The one at the top is confirmed town.  Mcmc is near the bottom.

Vote: Robz888

I find his certainty about sudgy rather scummy. I would not be surprised by a mcmc-robz scumteam trying to get an easy misslynch of sudgy. I am voting robz instead of mcmc because robz is saying less, and I got a towny feel from mcmc's posts in D1.

Now he's going for Robz, a confirmed townie.  And when mcmc gets a little bit of suspicion, he tries to stay away from it.

I'll be fine lynching either one, but I won't throw the hammer if I can until the end of the day.

Throw the hammer?  Neither of them are at L-1, and you already voted.  What do you mean?

well, he can only be voting for one of them. He is referring to a situation in which he COULD throw the hammer. He says that he would wait until nearer the deadline I think.

we have two votes on each of the three main suspects. Kooshie, you are the only one not voting. You have been discussing things without taking a side. FoS. (for what it's worth, Kooshie is still near the top if not at the top of my scumreads. Nobody seems to agree with me so I haven't pushed it, or bothered voting)

Here he still mentions he is suspicious of Kooshie.


Also, I remember that liopoil was the first to suggest mcmc/me.  If he hadn't done that, and we lynched mcmc and he flipped scum, we would lynch liopoil the next day.  So, he tried to divert attention away from himself even if he was the only other suspect (at the time of his making the post).

[Kooshie]

Also, I have somebody coming into town for the weekend so not sure how much I'll be around.  Ash/Jorbles, when exactly is deadline again? 

Kooshie, if you can hold off hammering until I post my case on lio, please do.  I don't want to die without having given you quoted reasoning.

Sure thing.  The deadline is on the 22nd, so you have plenty of time.  As do I.

[Kooshie]

This post is in reply to sudgy's post, since quoting would take up too much space.
Right now, I would just like to say, you've mentioned him going on townies a lot.  We didn't know that they were town then, so don't get too far ahead of yourself.  This post is very short.  I will make a bigger one soon. Just needed to say that.

[mcmcsalot]

One thing that continues to interest me about raerae is her continued defense of sudgy and now stating to make a case on liopoil. town!raerae has no idea of the setup and sees potential scum teams in sudgy/mcmcsalot and mcmcsalot/liopoil but continues to defend sudgy and push against me and liopoil. Town!liopoil has made the intelligent conclusion that I'm his eyes there are legitimate scum teams in mcmcsalot/sudgy an raerae/sudgy. It makes sense for sudgy to make cases on me and liopoil as it makes sense for me to make cases on sudgy and raerae, me and sudgy regardless of alignment know exactly who scum is. It is raerae and liopoil who are only knowledgable if they are scum.

[sudgy]

This post is in reply to sudgy's post, since quoting would take up too much space.
Right now, I would just like to say, you've mentioned him going on townies a lot.  We didn't know that they were town then, so don't get too far ahead of yourself.  This post is very short.  I will make a bigger one soon. Just needed to say that.

The point was that while he was accusing a lot of different people, he rarely ever even mentioned mcmc.

[sudgy]

Oh man, in my dream last night it turned out liopoil/kooshie was the mafia team...  And we were getting mad at kooshie for not ending the game sooner...

[liopoil]

should get mad at me too for not hammering mcmc

[sudgy]

I couldn't quite remember who the other one was, I just think it might have been you.  But I know kooshie was one.  (But we should probably get back to normal posting though)

[liopoil]

okay. "I, as town, know that sudgy is scum for certain. Therefore: DoubleVote: sudgy". See, nothing new to say.

[liopoil]

Actually, I think there is more to say. Here are some more reasons to lynch sudgy!

Also, just curious, are we allowed to PM each other (not that I'm saying I want to, just for future reference)?

a question that Scum!sudgy would be more interested in the answer to than town!sudgy because he wants to talk to his scummate

raerae: I used to suspect you, but now I'm seeing that's just how you are.  You have a pretty big town read from me at this point.
mcmcsalot: I've got a pretty big town read on you.  Either you're town, or very good mafia.
kooshie: Also a pretty big scum read from me, reasons shown by liopoil.

Has a strong townread D1 on both of his potential partners, and sheeped my case on a now conf. townie. From his perspective it was an easy misslynch that luckily wasn't pushed through.

I think sudgy has become my biggest scumread, for a few reasons:

He's said a lot and given a lot of reads without actually giving many reasons or cases. That is, he seems to be saying a lot without saying much, and the reasons he has given haven't been that substantial. For example, raerae asking questions, raerae unvoting. Granted, a lot of that happened in semi-RVS, but the reasons were carried out of RVS. Then in his #435, he gives a view on everyone, and is giving "pretty big" reads, but very few reasons, or just other people's reasons. He's currently voting Kooshie without giving any of his own reasons, just talking about liopoil's "evidence", which is consistent with classic scum sheeping. So it seems like if sudgy is scum, then he is following liopoil into the Kooshie lynch with the aim of blaming lio for it tomorrow and pushing for the lio lynch. I think this is enough for me to Vote: sudgy and see what people think.

Jimmmm, a confirmed town, had a big scumread on sudgy. Not only are his reasons in-post a good reason to hammer sudgy, but Jimmmmm's death makes it stronger. From scum!sudgy's perspective that night Jimmmm was the most likely to investigate him if he was the town cop. jimmmm was the perfect NK for sudgy, and luckily for him he was a PR.

I would be fine with lynching mail-mi, but that would be kind of mean to him.  Mail-mi, I'll be "voting" for you, but not officially just in case you do end up getting lynched.

So he actually was on the mail-mi wagon essentially. easy dodge of suspicion when mail-mi flipped town, which he knew would happen. This actually worked for him. So he was on both of the misslynch wagons.

[sudgy]

First, I actually was on mail-mi's wagon.  I voted for him later.

Also, while I'm not going to mention much else in response to your post (we've been doing that too much), I even mentioned in that post that mcmc could have been a mafia.  When I was reading through his posts, I was thinking, "This guy gives me town vibes.  A little bit too much so.  I better watch him..."

[Kooshie]

I did say that I would make a post in reply to sudgy's post, but I just don't feel like it right now...  I want to reply to liopoil's post.  the numbers will be consisten with each quote and what was said.

1.  Why would sudgy say this, scum or no?  Didn't Ashersky say no PMing for game use in the rules, or something like that?
2.  Nothing to be added is needed.
3.  Jimmmmm was, I think, correct in what he said.  But aren't we putting too much faith in what the towspeople said?  You say you're town, and yet you were certain I was scum.  Okay, If I were you, I would have thought I was scum, too.  But still.
4.  ...in case you do end up getting lynched.  Basically saying, I don't want to be blamed for your mislynching.
This was more of comments on liopoil's quotes, and not what he said.  Except for #2, but does that really count?

[ashersky]

They can hear tiny clicks and scuffles from behind the wall.  Then a loud crash.

Um, guys...in case you didn't know, I am tied to a chair which is now on its side.  The rats are big enough that they are looking me in the eye.  And they look awfully hungry.

[sudgy]

They can hear tiny clicks and scuffles from behind the wall.  Then a loud crash.

Um, guys...in case you didn't know, I am tied to a chair which is now on its side.  The rats are big enough that they are looking me in the eye.  And they look awfully hungry.

Wait, you can move still?  Or did the rats push you over?

[Jorbles]

Jorbles dusts a series of marble busts silently. Murmuring to himself about how unfortunate it was that they had been left so unclean.

"I do hope we find Master Ashersky with his head intact. It would be a shame for his face not to be added to the family collection."

[mcmcsalot]

Okay kooshie, you need to make your decision soon, you realize that after lynching me or sudgy if you hit scum, there is another day where scum can win and you are making it much harder for town to make the correct decision by taking this long, I am sorry to hurry you but at this point it is negatively affecting town.

[Kooshie]

i will make my decision tomorrow at the latest, because I want liopoil to post why he is town, like he suggested he could a little while back.  i know that i said that before, but this time I mean it.

[liopoil]

Sure! WARNING: the following is probably somewhat biased. Many of these points could be explained away by saying "could be scum trying to look towny". Nothing I can really do about that.

you say that if a cop comes forward and you are the doctor you should protect the cop. I'm not so sure about this. if there is a cop and doc then there is also a role-blocker. roleblocker will block the cop, so maybe it is worth saving somebody else. Not sure about this though... This makes the cop less valuable, because once the cop hits scum once there is a 50-50 chance that the cop will never get another result. unless we lynch the roleblocker. If the roleblocker is lynched and you are the cop you should come forward and the doc will protect you, at which point town will be well on its way to victory .

Theory talk over. RVS time.

Vote: sudgy for being the last one to post. this is only 99.9% RVS.

Pro-town theory talk early D1. Hasn't mattered so far though. I also RVSed scum! and it was only 99.9% luck!

--Early D1 case on Kooshie--

Yes, while I was mistaken about kooshie, I still maintain that this was by far the best case at the time. I thought that making a huge post anaylzing everything a person has said is good for town. Also note that this was a very risky post to make if I was scum. If we had lynched Kooshie I would have been in big trouble.

POST COUNT!

EFHW: 49
Mcmcsalot: 49
Raerae: 43
Liopoil: 41
Sudgy: 39
Jimmmmm: 34
Kooshie: 32
Robz888: 16
Mail-mi: 16

I make a post count. I'm in the middle here. We seem to have gotten unlucky that the bottom 4 were all town. anyway, I thought a post count would be a good idea. I make another one later I believe. (the numbers for sudgy and I were off by one. I didn't count the post count itself for me, and I counted a time when Jimmmmm said "Isotopic username: sudgy". (Isotropic misspelled so as not to mess up later post counts)).

mail-mi: do not claim until someone voices an intent to hammer. sudgy already claimed VT which give scum one fewer person to shoot at if they want to hit PR, that is, unless sudgy is scum. This is why claiming is anti-town and shouldn't be done unless you are going to be lynched if you don't. OR you are a cop with a scum result, but that's different.

Here I mention something that is beneficial for town, and bad for scum. Unfortunatly mail-mi claimed VT anyway, but it didn't end up mattering.

Ash, if we agree, can we have an extended twilight until the deadline after we hammer? Or request to auto-hammer at deadline?

Would also be benificial for town. It wasn't allowed, but was worth a shot.

Final Vote Count:
mail-mi (5): mcmcsalot, EFHW, sudgy, Kooshie, Robz888

Not Voting (2): Jimmmmm, liopoil

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

Not on mail-mi wagon. I said all along I prefered a robz lynch. Unfortunately, he was town too. And I was on the robz wagon the next day.

Jimmmmm was killed during the night.  He was the Town Cop.

EFHW didn't die. If I was scum killing EFHW would have been the obvious choice. She had a scumread on me, and thought kooshie was town. Clearly killing her was the best option. I also didn't really have a reason to kill jimmmmm, apart from him being a vet and all...

here's mcmc's reasoning I think:

Yesterday it took 5 to lynch, and there are two scum. Jimmmmm and mail-mi are both town, and were voting sudgy. at one point, efhw and mcmc were both voting sudgy as well. This means that he was at L-1. He's saying that there are only two possible explanations for sudgy not being hammered:

a) both mcmc and efhw are scum. mcmc says that he knows this isn't the case, because he knows he is town. The same is true for EFHW.

b) sudgy is scum.

if neither A or B are true than mcmc says that there would therefore have been at least one scum that wasn't on the wagon who could have hammered, but didn't. mcmc says that he doesn't believe this would happen. therefore he concludes that one of A or B must be true. Mcmc says he knows that A is not true, and so he concludes that B is true. EFHW should conclude the same if she is town and also thinks that scum would hammer in this situation.

If I am scum, then sudgy is town. if I am scum, then there was a point during D1 when I could have hammered town!sudgy, but didn't.

Really, right now voting is anti-town. I'm going to be even more suspicious than I already am of a sudgy-raerae team if they don't unvote...

Not liking anti-town things. kooshie did this as well.

d) I am towny. If I am town then sudgy is scum. I can show you all the towny things I've done if you want.

Follows through on promise!

Quote: this post. This post is towny.

obviously this post is very one sided. I do think that some of these points are very valid though. So kooshie, if you believe that I am town, you should hammer sudgy, because if I am town then sudgy is scum.