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Author Topic: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! - Mafia Win Flawlessly  (Read 108850 times)

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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #700 on: February 06, 2013, 07:47:35 pm »

town should have a 50-50 chance of wining in this position, I believe.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #701 on: February 06, 2013, 07:50:30 pm »

Seeing as I think sudgy is scum, for the many reasons I have stated, I think it is irrelevant whether or not scum!robz would push a mislynch on town!sudgy. But if that were the case, as a general rule one for one trades(one town lynch followed by one scum lynch) are good for town and bad for scum.
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Kooshie

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #702 on: February 06, 2013, 07:52:15 pm »

Seeing as I think sudgy is scum, for the many reasons I have stated, I think it is irrelevant whether or not scum!robz would push a mislynch on town!sudgy. But if that were the case, as a general rule one for one trades(one town lynch followed by one scum lynch) are good for town and bad for scum.
why do you keep on putting ! after scum or town?
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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #703 on: February 06, 2013, 07:54:33 pm »

Seeing as I think sudgy is scum, for the many reasons I have stated, I think it is irrelevant whether or not scum!robz would push a mislynch on town!sudgy. But if that were the case, as a general rule one for one trades(one town lynch followed by one scum lynch) are good for town and bad for scum.

The thing is, if Sudgy is scum then he is kind of unskillful scum (sorry Sudgy). 

Robz has just made flat-out statements without any argument to support them.  As a newbie, I'd like his reasons spelled out so I can understand how he is seeing things.
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Kooshie

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #704 on: February 06, 2013, 08:01:50 pm »

Seeing as I think sudgy is scum, for the many reasons I have stated, I think it is irrelevant whether or not scum!robz would push a mislynch on town!sudgy. But if that were the case, as a general rule one for one trades(one town lynch followed by one scum lynch) are good for town and bad for scum.

The thing is, if Sudgy is scum then he is kind of unskillful scum (sorry Sudgy). 

Robz has just made flat-out statements without any argument to support them.  As a newbie, I'd like his reasons spelled out so I can understand how he is seeing things.
Me, too. Is this usual Robz behavior?
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EFHW

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #705 on: February 06, 2013, 08:05:38 pm »

We have everyone on except Liopoil
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sudgy

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #706 on: February 06, 2013, 08:06:43 pm »

THese are the two quotes of robz that made me believe he is town.

Also, having suspicions of a Robz-Raerae Mafia team.

You know, I'm kind of starting to think that too...  I won't change my vote for now, but I'll keep this in mind...

Here's a good exercise: What evidence do you have for this?

I sure have a lot of votes. Why is this? Explain yourselves.

I can't yet tell the new people apart from one another.

Sure its not a lot but out of everything he has posted which is little, this made me lean town, this form of not defending himself and simply posing questions is a somewhat reliable indicator of town!robz.

You said that his towniness came from his doing what he usually does, making a bad case and voting.  He didn't make a bad case either time (just asked a question) and he didn't vote at all.

Quote
So I really don't know what you are voting me over, am I correct in thinking you are voting because I said I had a town read on robz and later said it was slipping away. I think you are, just as you did with robz finding me scummy simply because I find you scummy.

My main reasons for voting for you are:

1. Your saying the reasons for thinking Robz is town when the reason didn't really fit his actions (I know you countered it, but I still think this is the case)
2. You being on the wagon every time
3. You diverting attention from Robz and starting the lynch towards mail-mi

I mentioned you saying you were losing your town read on robz because after that you voted for mail-mi.

Also, another idea I had (it may not be right, though) is that if mcmc and robz are mafia, mcmc could have told robz to make a shallow accusation to use his reasoning for robz being town.  Then robz voted for me right away.

Seeing as I think sudgy is scum, for the many reasons I have stated, I think it is irrelevant whether or not scum!robz would push a mislynch on town!sudgy. But if that were the case, as a general rule one for one trades(one town lynch followed by one scum lynch) are good for town and bad for scum.

The thing is, if Sudgy is scum then he is kind of unskillful scum (sorry Sudgy). 

Robz has just made flat-out statements without any argument to support them.  As a newbie, I'd like his reasons spelled out so I can understand how he is seeing things.
Me, too. Is this usual Robz behavior?

mcmc says it is.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

raerae

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #707 on: February 06, 2013, 08:16:06 pm »

Robz isn't being the town Robz I know and mcmc's defense of him his flimsy at best.  Mcmc is being the scum mcmc I remember from blitz.  He's taking certain things people say and skewing them slightly so they sound scummy.  This tactic relies on town reading his post and his take on it instead of going back and reading for themselves.

Vote: mcmcsalot
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #708 on: February 06, 2013, 08:26:53 pm »

Seeing as I think sudgy is scum, for the many reasons I have stated, I think it is irrelevant whether or not scum!robz would push a mislynch on town!sudgy. But if that were the case, as a general rule one for one trades(one town lynch followed by one scum lynch) are good for town and bad for scum.
why do you keep on putting ! after scum or town?

Its just something that the vets do and I started doing, I think the use for it is to clarify that scum!robz means the scenario where robz is scum, not I am saying robz is scum.


Seeing as I think sudgy is scum, for the many reasons I have stated, I think it is irrelevant whether or not scum!robz would push a mislynch on town!sudgy. But if that were the case, as a general rule one for one trades(one town lynch followed by one scum lynch) are good for town and bad for scum.

The thing is, if Sudgy is scum then he is kind of unskillful scum (sorry Sudgy). 

Robz has just made flat-out statements without any argument to support them.  As a newbie, I'd like his reasons spelled out so I can understand how he is seeing things.
Me, too. Is this usual Robz behavior?

First off, all scum is unskillful once they are caught, saying they can't be scum because that would make them dumb is never a good reason. I have seen vets go out of there way to look like obvious scum so that people will then be less suspicious of them.

Secondly, this one liner play from robz is something I have seen but have no idea what it means other than the fact that it is unhelpful and agravating. I would also like him to back up what he is saying about sudgy. Do you find him scummy for different reasons than the ones I have stated?

(Added after reading sudgy's reply)
I said my town read on him came from the fact that he lays low as town and tries to trap scum, this involves making a bad case and seeing who jumps on it, this also involves asking alot of questions and withholding his own reads.

I feel I have responded to each one of your point and I will again, I would like you to tell me if you think I'm flat out wrong with my defense or I am missing your point or you simply still find me scummy.
1. I have just answered this above, though this is not what you originally said, you first accused me of flip flopping my read on robz and you now say I just have a reason that isn't there. Also I would like to add this was a read from yesterday that was brought up today because raerae asked me to clarify, I do not emphatically believe robz is town he is not even among my top town reads.
2. I do not see why being on ever wagon is scummy please elaborate, jimm was also on the first too wagons of the day and stated support for the mail-mi lynch and he was town. I have made strong stances and have reasons for being on each of those wagons.
3. I said this yesterday and will repeat it, mail-mi was a much more informative lynch and was lurking just as much as robz and I had a reason, however small to believe robz was town.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #709 on: February 06, 2013, 08:32:48 pm »

Robz isn't being the town Robz I know and mcmc's defense of him his flimsy at best.  Mcmc is being the scum mcmc I remember from blitz.  He's taking certain things people say and skewing them slightly so they sound scummy.  This tactic relies on town reading his post and his take on it instead of going back and reading for themselves.

Vote: mcmcsalot

I have provided direct quotes to back up almost all of my points, my scum read on sudgy is based off of the analysis of all of the three major wagons we had in D1. I also provided a post containing all of those and urged everyone to make some analysis of it, I have constantly urged other players to add there own insight and thought. On D1 I found efhw followed by kooshie followed by sudgy scummy and backed down from all of them when I did not find the cases including the cases I made to be strong enough to lynch and finally decided on a lynch on a lurker.

How is this skewing things so they sound scummy, in blitz I tunneled you until you were mislynched D1...
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sudgy

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #710 on: February 06, 2013, 09:45:25 pm »

I can tell it's pointless giving points to counter another person's point countering my own point, so I won't.  I'll just say that you're changing your read on robz wasn't one of the big things against you.  I'm saying it was more of a "I'll agree with you guys to make you think I'm town but we can't lynch him because he's my mafia buddy."

Also, another big reason I forgot to mention earlier is that you and EFHW were the only people who we don't know who they were on my wagon.  I'm still thinking Robz is the other mafia instead of EFHW, though.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #711 on: February 06, 2013, 10:34:05 pm »

Vote Count 2.2:

sudgy (2): Robz888, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (2): sudgy, raerae

Not Voting (3): EFHW, Kooshie, liopoil

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 2 will end at 7:00 p.m. on Sunday, February 17.
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EFHW

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #712 on: February 07, 2013, 10:17:16 am »

VOTE: Robz888 until we hear something substantial from him to change my mind.
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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #713 on: February 07, 2013, 01:42:17 pm »

Been reading Robz in some finished games. What I found is that
1. He tends to use games where he is town to get a "scummyish" reputation, so when he is scum it is less apparent. 
2. He also purposely varies his participation as town and scum so that town can't identify his role that way.
3. He thinks it's terrible for a scum player to abandon his partner by not participating.

SO -- Here is my question.  Why has mcmc not shared this information with us, and instead gave a completely unsubstantiated reason for why he thinks Robz is town (that he makes accusations to see who sheeps along)???


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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #714 on: February 07, 2013, 01:53:54 pm »

Vote: Robz888

I find his certainty about sudgy rather scummy. I would not be surprised by a mcmc-robz scumteam trying to get an easy misslynch of sudgy. I am voting robz instead of mcmc because robz is saying less, and I got a towny feel from mcmc's posts in D1.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #715 on: February 07, 2013, 01:55:54 pm »

Been reading Robz in some finished games. What I found is that
1. He tends to use games where he is town to get a "scummyish" reputation, so when he is scum it is less apparent. 
2. He also purposely varies his participation as town and scum so that town can't identify his role that way.
3. He thinks it's terrible for a scum player to abandon his partner by not participating.

SO -- Here is my question.  Why has mcmc not shared this information with us, and instead gave a completely unsubstantiated reason for why he thinks Robz is town (that he makes accusations to see who sheeps along)???




Mcmc only started playing recently; you may actually be better informed on how play than he is. And I don't disagree with you.

Mainly, my participation here has been impacted by the fact that I've found it much harder to get into this game than others, since I don't really know any of you.

But I do think sudgy has sort of been all over the place, jumping at shadows. So that's the basis of my suspicion.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #716 on: February 07, 2013, 01:56:18 pm »

And I find raerae scummy for defending sudgy.

Also, sudgy's opening post today was SO staged.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #717 on: February 07, 2013, 01:57:56 pm »

Been reading Robz in some finished games. What I found is that
1. He tends to use games where he is town to get a "scummyish" reputation, so when he is scum it is less apparent. 
2. He also purposely varies his participation as town and scum so that town can't identify his role that way.
3. He thinks it's terrible for a scum player to abandon his partner by not participating.

SO -- Here is my question.  Why has mcmc not shared this information with us, and instead gave a completely unsubstantiated reason for why he thinks Robz is town (that he makes accusations to see who sheeps along)???

Because the three things you have mentioned don't help understand robz alignment, the things you mention are things robz does on purpose to make it hard to tell when hes scum. Also this was said earlier, robz is my brother and I believe I can read him well, the thing I pointed out earlier is something that I felt he does as town unknowingly. I reiterate though all this talk about robz being town is from something he did early in day one, I don't want to lynch him today because I find sudgy much scummier but robz is far from my top town read.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #718 on: February 07, 2013, 01:59:52 pm »

I do think mcmc reads me well, for what it's worth.
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Jorbles

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #719 on: February 07, 2013, 02:23:17 pm »

Vote Count 2.3:

sudgy (2): Robz888, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (2): sudgy, raerae
Robz888 (2): EFHW, liopoil

Not Voting (1): Kooshie

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 2 will end at 7:00 p.m. on Sunday, February 17.
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sudgy

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #720 on: February 07, 2013, 02:37:33 pm »

And I find raerae scummy for defending sudgy.

Also, sudgy's opening post today was SO staged.

I just thought, "I'll do a re-read of Jimmmmm and post about it."  Afterwards, "That didn't give me too much.  Oh well."

Vote: Robz888

I find his certainty about sudgy rather scummy. I would not be surprised by a mcmc-robz scumteam trying to get an easy misslynch of sudgy. I am voting robz instead of mcmc because robz is saying less, and I got a towny feel from mcmc's posts in D1.

His certainty could be what mcmc said (not quoted exactly), that he "makes a bad case followed by a vote to see how people react."  I did this too at the beginning of the first day.

Also, I got a "towny feel" from mcmc as well at D1, but even then I felt it was a bit too towny (I mentioned that once).  Like he was working to feel towny.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #721 on: February 07, 2013, 03:33:22 pm »

mcmc was in both of the games I read.  In one, Robz was scum, in the other town.  I didn't have to infer any of those comments - they were all stated clearly by different people. 

mcmc says my points don't help us determine if Robz is scum.  But actually, they do.  What I observed points to Robz as town and mcmc as not.  But, @Robz, most of us are strangers to each other, too, and we are participating.

mcmc's reasoning about Sugdy's wagon also applies to him - I know I'm town, so he could be the scum on that wagon, instead of assuming there was an all-town wagon on a mafia.

Sudgy has been all over the place.  Can someone please explain why scum would act that way?
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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #722 on: February 07, 2013, 03:40:59 pm »

I'm reposting this because I think any who is town would want to help refine it.

I'd like to go over what makes a post/action seem scummy.  I'll list the things I've gleaned so far, and then hopefully others can fill in the picture.

Being a skillful goon:

1.  Making a case on a townie with lots of certainty and "evidence" in the hopes of causing a mislynch. 
    These arguments tend to inflate the importance of trivial matters and purposely misinterpret what is said.

2.  Trying to seem like town by going along with wagons.

3.  Managing to get off wagons aimed at fellow scum.

4.  Giving good town advice once in awhile to gain town-cred.

5.  Hammering a mislynch after waiting long enough to not seem suspicious.

Being an unskillful goon:

1.  Making arguments against townies that don't make sense or are obviously thin.

2.  Quick-hammering a mislynch.

3.  Jumping around from accusation to accusation because you can't decide what is the towniest position to take.

What have I missed?
 
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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #723 on: February 07, 2013, 03:45:44 pm »

mcmc was in both of the games I read.  In one, Robz was scum, in the other town.  I didn't have to infer any of those comments - they were all stated clearly by different people. 

mcmc says my points don't help us determine if Robz is scum.  But actually, they do.  What I observed points to Robz as town and mcmc as not.  But, @Robz, most of us are strangers to each other, too, and we are participating.

mcmc's reasoning about Sugdy's wagon also applies to him - I know I'm town, so he could be the scum on that wagon, instead of assuming there was an all-town wagon on a mafia.

Sudgy has been all over the place.  Can someone please explain why scum would act that way?
'

Frustration, trying to find an alternate lynch, any lynch, that sticks.
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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 2)
« Reply #724 on: February 07, 2013, 03:51:35 pm »

when scum is under pressure they really want to redirect the attention to somebody else.

here's mcmc's reasoning I think:

Yesterday it took 5 to lynch, and there are two scum. Jimmmmm and mail-mi are both town, and were voting sudgy. at one point, efhw and mcmc were both voting sudgy as well. This means that he was at L-1. He's saying that there are only two possible explanations for sudgy not being hammered:

a) both mcmc and efhw are scum. mcmc says that he knows this isn't the case, because he knows he is town. The same is true for EFHW.

b) sudgy is scum.

if neither A or B are true than mcmc says that there would therefore have been at least one scum that wasn't on the wagon who could have hammered, but didn't. mcmc says that he doesn't believe this would happen. therefore he concludes that one of A or B must be true. Mcmc says he knows that A is not true, and so he concludes that B is true. EFHW should conclude the same if she is town and also thinks that scum would hammer in this situation.
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