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[Robz888]

@raerae -- I agree.  Not sure if it makes him Mafia, but it is disappointing.  Are you suggesting lynching him because he's not participating or because you think that points to him being scummy?  I don't know him, but maybe he's town and finds that boring? (That's not a good reason not to play, of course.)

I was gone this weekend. Also, weekends are usually low activity times. Those this game seems to be in exception.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm fairly certain that either liopoil or kooshie are scum.  They both seem pretty scummy to me, but with liopoil having a fairly-convincing argument against kooshie I'm pretty sure they couldn't both be it.

I'm a little wary of this. If sudgy is scum, then this seems a great way to force two mislynches if we lynch one, they flip Town, then we lynch the other because one of them had to be scum.

[raerae]

@raerae -- I agree.  Not sure if it makes him Mafia, but it is disappointing.  Are you suggesting lynching him because he's not participating or because you think that points to him being scummy?  I don't know him, but maybe he's town and finds that boring? (That's not a good reason not to play, of course.)

I'm not convinced he's scum (he just hasn't said enough yet!) so this was more of 'Hey, I know you've been gone but you're back now and you were around but not posting on this day and I'd really like you to say something because you are experienced and the new newbies could benefit from thay and maybe you have better ideas for how to move this along than we do so please get your booty in here and say stuff' kind of vote.  It is documented elsewhere that he prefers playing scum (see Buffy) but he's smart enough to know his meta so I don't think we can rely on that to determine his alignment. Additionally, I think Robz reads scummy to people who haven't played with him (totallly guilty).

[Robz888]

I think I read scummy to people who have played with me.

[EFHW]

I'm fairly certain that either liopoil or kooshie are scum.  They both seem pretty scummy to me, but with liopoil having a fairly-convincing argument against kooshie I'm pretty sure they couldn't both be it.

I'm a little wary of this. If sudgy is scum, then this seems a great way to force two mislynches if we lynch one, they flip Town, then we lynch the other because one of them had to be scum.

Interesting ...

[mail-mi]

Sorry everyone, it's Sunday so I can't get on very much. From reading all of the posts, i can see that Robz was on v/la so Unvote.

I really don't know what to think, when I play in real life we usually play a whole Night before a whole Day so we at least have something to go off of. Since its RVS, I don't really have anything to say.

[raerae]

I think I read scummy to people who have played with me.

I could speak to that in this game except you haven't given much to read.  *hint hint hint*

[raerae]

Sorry everyone, it's Sunday so I can't get on very much. From reading all of the posts, i can see that Robz was on v/la so Unvote.

I really don't know what to think, when I play in real life we usually play a whole Night before a whole Day so we at least have something to go off of. Since its RVS, I don't really have anything to say.

We're clearly out of RVS and there is plenty to read and give thoughts on.

[Kooshie]

Okay, I'm going to pretend not to be myself right now, nor anyone in particular.  If...

liopoil=town kooshie=town then liopoil is scum hunting, and kooshie just isn't good at being town, or, as a newbie, doesn't know how to act, or both

liopoil=town kooshie=scum then liopoil is very good at scum hunting, and/or kooshie is very bad at being scum

liopoil=scum kooshie=town then liopoil took a person pretty much everyone was suspicious of at one point, took half of their posts, and either made or found suspicious things, and explained them, bringing doubt and accusation to everyone's minds(mostly), and kooshie just isn't good at being town, or, as a newbie, doesn't know how to act, or both

liopoil=scum  kooshie=scum then either liopoil is taking a huge risk in giving all these reasons to why kooshie is scum, or they have a(either very bad or very complicated)plan

This was all from the perspective of a vanilla town just trying to figure everything out.

[liopoil]

And that doesn't mean I don't think it's liopoil, it's just from the evidence I think kooshie seems a bit more likely.

Since I think the opposite, I'm going to VOTE: Liopoil, and let's see what the others think.

I don't think this is a good D1 lynch, why do you think so? Like obviously you dont think your scummy but what makes liopoil more scummy than kooshie to you

What makes a D1 lynch different? 

I really don't read Kooshie as scummy, so Liopoil's case against her seems a tad trumped up to me. 

I don't know if Liopoil is scummy, I just think he's more scummy than Kooshie.  He didn't explain his 2-day absence -- during which time he was active on another game, so he wasn't v/la.  And there's the weak case (imo) against Kooshie.  Not a lot, but more reason to suspect than the others.

I am in two games at once. At that point in time people were posting very fluffy cases on people. There really wasn't much to go off of or comment on. Meanwhile in DS9 I was at risk of being lynched as we neared the deadline of D2 where there was lots of evidence on lots of people to go off of. I think I was posting in the right place. As of now I am in the middle of the pack in terms of post count, yet you pick on me. Any particular reason why the case against kooshie is weak? I quoted a gazillion of her posts and showed how they could be scummy. most all of the other long posts are just a little note on each player, which isn't terribly helpful.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, I'm going to pretend not to be myself right now, nor anyone in particular.  If...

liopoil=town kooshie=town then liopoil is scum hunting, and kooshie just isn't good at being town, or, as a newbie, doesn't know how to act, or both

liopoil=town kooshie=scum then liopoil is very good at scum hunting, and/or kooshie is very bad at being scum

liopoil=scum kooshie=town then liopoil took a person pretty much everyone was suspicious of at one point, took half of their posts, and either made or found suspicious things, and explained them, bringing doubt and accusation to everyone's minds(mostly), and kooshie just isn't good at being town, or, as a newbie, doesn't know how to act, or both

liopoil=scum  kooshie=scum then either liopoil is taking a huge risk in giving all these reasons to why kooshie is scum, or they have a(either very bad or very complicated)plan

This was all from the perspective of a vanilla town just trying to figure everything out.

So basically your defense is, you're probably not both scum, and if sudgy's Town, what are the chances he'd find scum this early?

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, I'm going to pretend not to be myself right now, nor anyone in particular.  If...

liopoil=town kooshie=town then liopoil is scum hunting, and kooshie just isn't good at being town, or, as a newbie, doesn't know how to act, or both

liopoil=town kooshie=scum then liopoil is very good at scum hunting, and/or kooshie is very bad at being scum

liopoil=scum kooshie=town then liopoil took a person pretty much everyone was suspicious of at one point, took half of their posts, and either made or found suspicious things, and explained them, bringing doubt and accusation to everyone's minds(mostly), and kooshie just isn't good at being town, or, as a newbie, doesn't know how to act, or both

liopoil=scum  kooshie=scum then either liopoil is taking a huge risk in giving all these reasons to why kooshie is scum, or they have a(either very bad or very complicated)plan

This was all from the perspective of a vanilla town just trying to figure everything out.

So basically your defense is, you're probably not both scum, and if sudgyliopoil's Town, what are the chances he'd find scum this early?

FTFM

[mcmcsalot]

vote: Kooshie sorry but your defense is essentially, that your bad at being town.

[Kooshie]

Okay, I'm going to pretend not to be myself right now, nor anyone in particular.  If...

liopoil=town kooshie=town then liopoil is scum hunting, and kooshie just isn't good at being town, or, as a newbie, doesn't know how to act, or both

liopoil=town kooshie=scum then liopoil is very good at scum hunting, and/or kooshie is very bad at being scum

liopoil=scum kooshie=town then liopoil took a person pretty much everyone was suspicious of at one point, took half of their posts, and either made or found suspicious things, and explained them, bringing doubt and accusation to everyone's minds(mostly), and kooshie just isn't good at being town, or, as a newbie, doesn't know how to act, or both

liopoil=scum  kooshie=scum then either liopoil is taking a huge risk in giving all these reasons to why kooshie is scum, or they have a(either very bad or very complicated)plan

This was all from the perspective of a vanilla town just trying to figure everything out.

So basically your defense is, you're probably not both scum, and if sudgyliopoil's Town, what are the chances he'd find scum this early?

FTFM

No.  That is not what I am saying.  This wasn't supposed to be in my defense when I started it... but it worked out that way, sort of?  I'm just giving everyone to think about it.  Here's another thing kind of like that, maybe it will help?
If...
kooshie is scum, she made that to put suspicoin on liopoil, and/or to take suspicion away from herself
kooshie is town, she made that to make everything clearer to herself, to try and figure out if liopoil was scum, and hopefully for others(the making everything clearer).  Not quite in her defense, but still hoping it might work out that way

[Kooshie]

can we have a vote count?  I think I've just been lynched

[Kooshie]

can we have a vote count?  I think I've just been lynched

never mind!  I don't think I have

[Kooshie]

can we have a vote count?  I think I've just been lynched

never mind!  I don't think I have

but still, a vote count.

[EFHW]

Okay, I re-read everything kooshie has said, and here's what I've found:

Screw that. Vote: Kooshie for the terrible signature. RVS is fun!

Vote: Jimmmmm for not liking my signature.  But I got rid of it anyway.

This is what got her under suspicion in the first place: being too eager to please. And then in her next post there was this:

Screw that. Vote: Kooshie for the terrible signature. RVS is fun!

Vote: Jimmmmm for not liking my signature.  But I got rid of it anyway.

No, I didn't want you to do that! Just wanted something to tease you about.

okay I'll put something back in my signature

...doing whatever people want. Then she stopped posting for a while, until people started scrutinizing her. When asked to be heard from she said:

I'd like to hear from Kooshie. Where's that krazy kat?

kat...?

which doesn't exactly address not being heard from. Later she apologizes for lurking but finished the post with:

being lurky is just my strategy right now.

...Lurking is almost never pro-town. It's not necessarily pro-scum either: but is just in general a bad idea.

When asked about a robz-raerae scumteam:

Kooshie  What do you think about the robz/raerae speculation? 

I'm not sure.  they haven't exactly been acting like they're both scum, but neither of them are very town read to me.  I think that it is very plausible, but, then again, I don't feel like we have quite enough to go on.  Or, at least, I feel I don't.

States a null read, not going either way and basically saying that they haven't been scummy or towny, even though they had both said things and people had commented on what they said. Avoiding the question, but then when people vote for him she suddenly decides:

I still vote Robz because I haven't seen him post since I voted on him.

true.  very true.  he did say he didn't have any real suspicions, but I think he could still post his thoughts. Vote: Robz

buddying/jumping on a wagon/agree-ing. Now that people have taken a stance she joins them as she won't be alone in it, won't be as scrutinized for it. This seems very scummy to me.

Later she posts her reads:

Here are my indefinite reads:

Town: (everyone's had their not-so-town moments in this game, so, really, I'm not certain about anybody not being scum)
Slight Town: mcmc, sudgy(I'm not quite sure what to think about them yet)
Slight Slight Town: raerae(I don't have any real evidence that she's scum, but she doesn't exactly have a super clean slate, either)
Slight Scum: liopoil, Robz(even if he is on v/la, his posts beforehand weren't full of information)
Scum: mail-mi(for hardly posting, and when he did, it barely contained much information)

So, as you can see, mail-mi is the scummiest to me.  He hasn't posted much, and the content isn't that plentiful(basically what I said in parentheses on the list itself).  Vote: mail-mi

The town row is empty. She says this is because she isn't sure about anyone being town. This is fine, however, Mail-mi is in the scum row, and surely she can't be sure about him being scum can she? after all, the only thing on his case is lurking. She doesn't include herself on this list. If she is town than she would be sure about that and therefore belongs on the town row. The combination of the two makes me consider a kooshie-mail-mi scum team. It explains both her not being included and mail-mi being in the scum row. She explains every person on the list except for me. Raerae asks her about this and she responds:

Kooshie, what's your reason for slight scrumread on lio?

my slight scumread on liopoil is partly because of lack of posting(though not nearly as much as mail-mi and Robz), and partly because, he's been acting kind of shady.  I think I would have put him in the same category as you, except he seems a bit less-townish, and his formerly low posts.  I suppose I could have put him on Slight Slight Scum...

... by retracting her read by one "slight". She says I haven't been posting much, yet as of this post we have the same number of posts. I've been acting shady too apparently, but since she doesn't cite examples I don't know how to respond to that. And finally she says essentially "I would say that he's towny except he hasn't been towny"

Ok, here goes.  Consider this in addition to her own responses, I won't repeat her points.
1.  The Jimmmmm vote was in response to her vote on him, and both were during the time when people were voting for each other on any pretext to break the ice (something I'm starting to think is a very bad idea, since people seem to forget that later).
2.  Her kat? response was immediately followed by a longer response explaining her absence on Thurs and likely future absences on Thursdays in general, so calling it a non-response is taking it out of context and making more of it than there is.
3.  Saying you have the same number of posts is misleading because you were absent 2 days and had just made a bunch of posts in a row.
4.  Pointing out her inconsistencies in categorizing town, not town, slight slight scum etc. seems like taking something not very relevant to scumminess and trying to make it seem relevant.
5.  I read her vagueness, eagerness to please and wishy-washy conclusions as due to being newbie, and jumping in and trying things out even though she's not sure how to do it.  It's hard to find any thread of deception in any of her posts. 

These are the reasons I think your case against her is trumped up and possibly a diversion to get us to lynch a townie.

I didn't have time to read posts made while I was typing -- will respond later if tis' needed.

[Kooshie]

Town: (everyone's had their not-so-town moments in this game, so, really, I'm not certain about anybody not being scum)

Care to explain what these not-so-town moments are? This sounds like a way to try to put suspicion on everyone except yourself.

When I say not-so-town moments, I don't mean scummy moments.  Just in case you were thinking that.  so, for example...
efhw hasn't been voting for me, and has been giving many reasons, which i appreciate.  However, why would a townie do this?  better lynch than no lynch, right?  people will also start think that efhw is on a scum team with me, and they might lynch her.  but if efhw is scum, she wouldn't disagree with so many people, for the same reason.  If she is on a scum team with me, she might disagree to keep me alive, but of course, they would think of us as a scum team, and they lynch me and see that I'm scum, they would lynch her and then the town would win.  So it's not-so-town, but not all that scummy, either.
I'll do others separately(their not-so-town moments).

[liopoil]

Ok, here goes.  Consider this in addition to her own responses, I won't repeat her points.
1.  The Jimmmmm vote was in response to her vote on him, and both were during the time when people were voting for each other on any pretext to break the ice (something I'm starting to think is a very bad idea, since people seem to forget that later).
2.  Her kat? response was immediately followed by a longer response explaining her absence on Thurs and likely future absences on Thursdays in general, so calling it a non-response is taking it out of context and making more of it than there is.
3.  Saying you have the same number of posts is misleading because you were absent 2 days and had just made a bunch of posts in a row.
4.  Pointing out her inconsistencies in categorizing town, not town, slight slight scum etc. seems like taking something not very relevant to scumminess and trying to make it seem relevant.
5.  I read her vagueness, eagerness to please and wishy-washy conclusions as due to being newbie, and jumping in and trying things out even though she's not sure how to do it.  It's hard to find any thread of deception in any of her posts. 

These are the reasons I think your case against her is trumped up and possibly a diversion to get us to lynch a townie.

I didn't have time to read posts made while I was typing -- will respond later if tis' needed.

1. the vote was not the issue, it was switching her signature all the time.
2. I agree that she should not be persecuted for being absent on Thursday. However, raerae was asking to hear from kooshie, meaning reads and such. Giving an excuse for being gone, and then still not contributing, and even defending not contributing is scummy.
3. ...And she was gone on Thursday. Why should it matter when the posts were made in this case?
4. Point has some merit. Inconsistancies are still in general scummy though.
5. Those three things are generally considered to be more often scummy than towny. Most other people won't read those things the way you do.

[EFHW]

At this point, while I am defending Kooshie, I'm even more accusing Liopoil.  Inflating the case against Kooshie is suspicious behavior, is it not?

[EFHW]

What is FTFM?

[Jimmmmm]

What is FTFM?

Fixed That For Me (more often you'll see FTFY).

[Jimmmmm]

So I think Kooshie's at L-1 now. Because of that and that I'm not ready to lynch her just yet I'm going to Unvote for now pending a re-read or two.

[Jorbles]

"The vote count you asked for, good sirs and madams."

Vote Count 1.7:

Kooshie (3): liopoil, sudgy, mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): raerae
Mail-mi (1): kooshie
liopoil (1): EFHW

Not Voting (3): Robz888, mail-mi, Jimmmmm

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 4:30 p.m., forum time, on Monday, February 4.