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Author Topic: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! - Mafia Win Flawlessly  (Read 108824 times)

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Kooshie

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #425 on: January 27, 2013, 05:49:09 pm »

The post count is off. Kooshie has 13 posts, not 21

Thanks for this, I realize I counted wrong, keeping track without the isotropic username is hard.

Yes as far as robz goes being in other games has nothing to do with his lack of posting, I will say that he hasn't posted in those games either so i'm not too worried. He does need to get here and do some scum hunting soon as well as mail-mi.

Okay so I have given my reasons for having scum reads many times, I'm going to just list my read on everyone, I would like everyone to do the same and see where we line up. Also if you have not given reasons for your reads please do so in your post.

Town read: raerae
slight town: Jimm(early posts rang town to me, admittedly I am terrible at reading Jimm, I look to raerae and robz for a stronger read here)
slight scum: liopoil, sudgy(continued posting keeps him out of full scum read)
scum read: efhw, kooshie(corrected post count puts her back in this category)

mail-me and robz continue to have lurker status and I will wait to see what they have to say.
why am I scummier than liopoil?  if I had 13 posts, that is still 2 more than liopoil had.  we are both still posting, and yet you said only for liopoil that you were putting him at slight scum for continuing to post,  please explain.
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EFHW

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #426 on: January 27, 2013, 05:55:14 pm »

Ok, I'll try to sum my current impressions:

raerae:  I'm told her reactions to being voted on were completely characteristic and she has been very much town-read since, so I'm withholding judgement on those early posts and saying she's probably town.

Robz888:  It occurs to me that he is overcommitted to games and trying to get himself lynched, or doesn't care if he is lynched.  Too bad he insisted on joining, yuma or eevee might have participated more.

mail-mi:  Has been slow to engage in the game, but doesn't seem scummy.  Seems like he doesn't sign on very often.

sudgy:  Very eager to please, has twice changed his vote to be the same as mine.  While he's new to online Mafia, has a lot of irl experience, so I don't think the "newbie" excuse applies.

Kooshie:  Kind of wishy-washy in her posts.  Having fun, I think.  Seems like newbie stuff to me.

Jimmmmm:  Town or very good at pretending to be town!

Liopoil:  FoS on him.  He's been active in another game while neglecting ours.  Maybe busy plotting with whoever his partner is?

mcmcsalot:  Been kind of hostile towards me, each time with logical flaws.  Like he's picking an obvious (LOL) townie to target, if you ask me!  My scummiest read.





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EFHW

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #427 on: January 27, 2013, 06:16:07 pm »

Clarification -- I was inaccurate when I said Robz had been more lurky than Kooshie, if lurky means more posts.  I looked back and in fact I voted for him because he hadn't voted yet.  A different kind of lurking - being there but standing back. AND, in fact that was mostly an RVS vote, of both kinds, trying to get a reaction. 

So, I'll reduce my scum read on mcmc, since I was misleading in the answer I gave back then.

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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #428 on: January 27, 2013, 06:20:13 pm »

Okay, I re-read everything kooshie has said, and here's what I've found:

Screw that. Vote: Kooshie for the terrible signature. RVS is fun!
Vote: Jimmmmm for not liking my signature.  But I got rid of it anyway.
This is what got her under suspicion in the first place: being too eager to please. And then in her next post there was this:
Screw that. Vote: Kooshie for the terrible signature. RVS is fun!
Vote: Jimmmmm for not liking my signature.  But I got rid of it anyway.

No, I didn't want you to do that! Just wanted something to tease you about.
okay I'll put something back in my signature
...doing whatever people want. Then she stopped posting for a while, until people started scrutinizing her. When asked to be heard from she said:
I'd like to hear from Kooshie. Where's that krazy kat?
kat...?
which doesn't exactly address not being heard from. Later she apologizes for lurking but finished the post with:
being lurky is just my strategy right now.
...Lurking is almost never pro-town. It's not necessarily pro-scum either: but is just in general a bad idea.

When asked about a robz-raerae scumteam:
Kooshie  What do you think about the robz/raerae speculation? 
I'm not sure.  they haven't exactly been acting like they're both scum, but neither of them are very town read to me.  I think that it is very plausible, but, then again, I don't feel like we have quite enough to go on.  Or, at least, I feel I don't.
States a null read, not going either way and basically saying that they haven't been scummy or towny, even though they had both said things and people had commented on what they said. Avoiding the question, but then when people vote for him she suddenly decides:
I still vote Robz because I haven't seen him post since I voted on him.
true.  very true.  he did say he didn't have any real suspicions, but I think he could still post his thoughts. Vote: Robz
buddying/jumping on a wagon/agree-ing. Now that people have taken a stance she joins them as she won't be alone in it, won't be as scrutinized for it. This seems very scummy to me.

Later she posts her reads:
Here are my indefinite reads:

Town: (everyone's had their not-so-town moments in this game, so, really, I'm not certain about anybody not being scum)
Slight Town: mcmc, sudgy(I'm not quite sure what to think about them yet)
Slight Slight Town: raerae(I don't have any real evidence that she's scum, but she doesn't exactly have a super clean slate, either)
Slight Scum: liopoil, Robz(even if he is on v/la, his posts beforehand weren't full of information)
Scum: mail-mi(for hardly posting, and when he did, it barely contained much information)

So, as you can see, mail-mi is the scummiest to me.  He hasn't posted much, and the content isn't that plentiful(basically what I said in parentheses on the list itself).  Vote: mail-mi
The town row is empty. She says this is because she isn't sure about anyone being town. This is fine, however, Mail-mi is in the scum row, and surely she can't be sure about him being scum can she? after all, the only thing on his case is lurking. She doesn't include herself on this list. If she is town than she would be sure about that and therefore belongs on the town row. The combination of the two makes me consider a kooshie-mail-mi scum team. It explains both her not being included and mail-mi being in the scum row. She explains every person on the list except for me. Raerae asks her about this and she responds:
Kooshie, what's your reason for slight scrumread on lio?
my slight scumread on liopoil is partly because of lack of posting(though not nearly as much as mail-mi and Robz), and partly because, he's been acting kind of shady.  I think I would have put him in the same category as you, except he seems a bit less-townish, and his formerly low posts.  I suppose I could have put him on Slight Slight Scum...
... by retracting her read by one "slight". She says I haven't been posting much, yet as of this post we have the same number of posts. I've been acting shady too apparently, but since she doesn't cite examples I don't know how to respond to that. And finally she says essentially "I would say that he's towny except he hasn't been towny"
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #429 on: January 27, 2013, 06:21:31 pm »

I think this is the strongest case on anyone thus far. Vote: Kooshie
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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #430 on: January 27, 2013, 06:59:57 pm »

Can we have a vote count please?
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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #431 on: January 27, 2013, 07:19:16 pm »

Vote Count 1.6:

Kooshie (2): Jimmmmm, liopoil
Robz888 (1): mail-mi
raerae (1): sudgy
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
Mail-mi (1): kooshie

Not Voting (3): raerae, Robz888, efhw

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

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Kooshie

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #432 on: January 27, 2013, 07:28:43 pm »

Okay, I re-read everything kooshie has said, and here's what I've found:

Screw that. Vote: Kooshie for the terrible signature. RVS is fun!
Vote: Jimmmmm for not liking my signature.  But I got rid of it anyway.
This is what got her under suspicion in the first place: being too eager to please. And then in her next post there was this:
Screw that. Vote: Kooshie for the terrible signature. RVS is fun!
Vote: Jimmmmm for not liking my signature.  But I got rid of it anyway.

No, I didn't want you to do that! Just wanted something to tease you about.
okay I'll put something back in my signature
...doing whatever people want. Then she stopped posting for a while, until people started scrutinizing her. When asked to be heard from she said:
I'd like to hear from Kooshie. Where's that krazy kat?
kat...?
which doesn't exactly address not being heard from. Later she apologizes for lurking but finished the post with:
being lurky is just my strategy right now.
...Lurking is almost never pro-town. It's not necessarily pro-scum either: but is just in general a bad idea.

When asked about a robz-raerae scumteam:
Kooshie  What do you think about the robz/raerae speculation? 
I'm not sure.  they haven't exactly been acting like they're both scum, but neither of them are very town read to me.  I think that it is very plausible, but, then again, I don't feel like we have quite enough to go on.  Or, at least, I feel I don't.
States a null read, not going either way and basically saying that they haven't been scummy or towny, even though they had both said things and people had commented on what they said. Avoiding the question, but then when people vote for him she suddenly decides:
I still vote Robz because I haven't seen him post since I voted on him.
true.  very true.  he did say he didn't have any real suspicions, but I think he could still post his thoughts. Vote: Robz
buddying/jumping on a wagon/agree-ing. Now that people have taken a stance she joins them as she won't be alone in it, won't be as scrutinized for it. This seems very scummy to me.

Later she posts her reads:
Here are my indefinite reads:

Town: (everyone's had their not-so-town moments in this game, so, really, I'm not certain about anybody not being scum)
Slight Town: mcmc, sudgy(I'm not quite sure what to think about them yet)
Slight Slight Town: raerae(I don't have any real evidence that she's scum, but she doesn't exactly have a super clean slate, either)
Slight Scum: liopoil, Robz(even if he is on v/la, his posts beforehand weren't full of information)
Scum: mail-mi(for hardly posting, and when he did, it barely contained much information)

So, as you can see, mail-mi is the scummiest to me.  He hasn't posted much, and the content isn't that plentiful(basically what I said in parentheses on the list itself).  Vote: mail-mi
The town row is empty. She says this is because she isn't sure about anyone being town. This is fine, however, Mail-mi is in the scum row, and surely she can't be sure about him being scum can she? after all, the only thing on his case is lurking. She doesn't include herself on this list. If she is town than she would be sure about that and therefore belongs on the town row. The combination of the two makes me consider a kooshie-mail-mi scum team. It explains both her not being included and mail-mi being in the scum row. She explains every person on the list except for me. Raerae asks her about this and she responds:
Kooshie, what's your reason for slight scrumread on lio?
my slight scumread on liopoil is partly because of lack of posting(though not nearly as much as mail-mi and Robz), and partly because, he's been acting kind of shady.  I think I would have put him in the same category as you, except he seems a bit less-townish, and his formerly low posts.  I suppose I could have put him on Slight Slight Scum...
... by retracting her read by one "slight". She says I haven't been posting much, yet as of this post we have the same number of posts. I've been acting shady too apparently, but since she doesn't cite examples I don't know how to respond to that. And finally she says essentially "I would say that he's towny except he hasn't been towny"
1. I thought that Jimm meant that he didn't want me to vote on him, so, joking, I pretended that I thought that he wanted me to take my signature away, without realizing that, in fact, it was what he wanted.
2. Raerae already addressed that lurking isn't good, and I stopped.
3. I just wanted to say I wasn't sure, but since I hadn't been posting much beforehand, when I did post, I wanted to say as much as I could.
4.When I voted Robz, I had only just realized how much he had been lurking.  But yes, I have to admit, that was pretty scummy of me.
5. a.) No one else put themselves on their list, but you attack only me for not putting myself on? b.) If I was scum, I would put myself as town.  If I was town, I would put myself as town.  So if I put myself as town, you would interpret that as scummy, since I would be assuring everyone that I was town.  But you still call that scummy!
6. a.) I put suppose for making you slight slight town, meaning, I could think about it, but no.  Not meaning, I would absolutely, no doubt about it, make liopoil slight slight town.  Which is an exaggerated version of how you interpreted it. b.) Right.  You haven't been towny.  You've been suspicious.  I don't have any evidence, but, like raerae, you don't exactly have a clean slate to me.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #433 on: January 27, 2013, 08:08:29 pm »


why am I scummier than liopoil?  if I had 13 posts, that is still 2 more than liopoil had.  we are both still posting, and yet you said only for liopoil that you were putting him at slight scum for continuing to post,  please explain.

This is because I found you slightly scummy even with they higher post count due to your earlier posts, I found liopoil slightly scummy due to his low post count, when you also had a low post count that makes you scummier in my mind.
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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #434 on: January 27, 2013, 08:31:04 pm »

(I'm going to re-read everybody and say my opinion of them, this may take a while)
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #435 on: January 27, 2013, 08:59:40 pm »

(This will just be the order from the first post, and I'm not including me)

raerae: I used to suspect you, but now I'm seeing that's just how you are.  You have a pretty big town read from me at this point.

liopoil: I'm not quite sure about you...  At first you weren't doing much, then you suddenly have a huge post on kooshie.  I think you're in the middle for me.

mcmcsalot: I've got a pretty big town read on you.  Either you're town, or very good mafia.

EFHW: I don't see much for you as mafia, so you're also a pretty good town read.

mail-mi: he hasn't posted that much, so I don't know if that's random lurkiness or scum-lurkiness.

kooshie: Also a pretty big scum read from me, reasons shown by liopoil.

Jimmmmm: Town read from me.  I don't see anything particularly scummy about him.

Robz888: As he hasn't posted much, I don't think of much about him.  From what I have, he seems like he's town.



I'm fairly certain that either liopoil or kooshie are scum.  They both seem pretty scummy to me, but with liopoil having a fairly-convincing argument against kooshie I'm pretty sure they couldn't both be it.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #436 on: January 27, 2013, 09:05:36 pm »

(This will just be the order from the first post, and I'm not including me)

raerae: I used to suspect you, but now I'm seeing that's just how you are.  You have a pretty big town read from me at this point.

liopoil: I'm not quite sure about you...  At first you weren't doing much, then you suddenly have a huge post on kooshie.  I think you're in the middle for me.

mcmcsalot: I've got a pretty big town read on you.  Either you're town, or very good mafia.

EFHW: I don't see much for you as mafia, so you're also a pretty good town read.

mail-mi: he hasn't posted that much, so I don't know if that's random lurkiness or scum-lurkiness.

kooshie: Also a pretty big scum read from me, reasons shown by liopoil.

Jimmmmm: Town read from me.  I don't see anything particularly scummy about him.

Robz888: As he hasn't posted much, I don't think of much about him.  From what I have, he seems like he's town.



I'm fairly certain that either liopoil or kooshie are scum.  They both seem pretty scummy to me, but with liopoil having a fairly-convincing argument against kooshie I'm pretty sure they couldn't both be it.

Liopoil could be bussing(turning on his scum partner to gain towncred) This is proven to be effective as you have just given him town cred for it. It is rare for scum to do this so early but with the case against kooshie already(me and raerae) I wouldn't give him much town cred for it regardless of kooshies alignment.
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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #437 on: January 27, 2013, 09:09:13 pm »

(This will just be the order from the first post, and I'm not including me)

raerae: I used to suspect you, but now I'm seeing that's just how you are.  You have a pretty big town read from me at this point.

liopoil: I'm not quite sure about you...  At first you weren't doing much, then you suddenly have a huge post on kooshie.  I think you're in the middle for me.

mcmcsalot: I've got a pretty big town read on you.  Either you're town, or very good mafia.

EFHW: I don't see much for you as mafia, so you're also a pretty good town read.

mail-mi: he hasn't posted that much, so I don't know if that's random lurkiness or scum-lurkiness.

kooshie: Also a pretty big scum read from me, reasons shown by liopoil.

Jimmmmm: Town read from me.  I don't see anything particularly scummy about him.

Robz888: As he hasn't posted much, I don't think of much about him.  From what I have, he seems like he's town.



I'm fairly certain that either liopoil or kooshie are scum.  They both seem pretty scummy to me, but with liopoil having a fairly-convincing argument against kooshie I'm pretty sure they couldn't both be it.

Liopoil could be bussing(turning on his scum partner to gain towncred) This is proven to be effective as you have just given him town cred for it. It is rare for scum to do this so early but with the case against kooshie already(me and raerae) I wouldn't give him much town cred for it regardless of kooshies alignment.

I thought about that, but I was also thinking about how it was early.  I'm still going to be open to them both being scum, it's just that I think it might be a bit more likely for only one of them to.  Also, I didn't think too much about kooshie being scum until liopoil made that huge post.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #438 on: January 27, 2013, 09:31:10 pm »

sudgy: you say I'm in the middle, but at the bottom say that kooshie and I both seem very scummy. I'm a little confused why people have slight scumreads on me when the only thing they've said is that I lurked for a couple days... or is that enough?

Why couldn't we both be town? from your perspective that seems more likely than us both being scum I think.

From your post it seems kooshie is your biggest scumread by far. you also say raerae is a pretty big town read. Your vote is currently on raerae. May I suggest you move it to kooshie?  ;)
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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #439 on: January 27, 2013, 09:34:04 pm »

sudgy: you say I'm in the middle, but at the bottom say that kooshie and I both seem very scummy. I'm a little confused why people have slight scumreads on me when the only thing they've said is that I lurked for a couple days... or is that enough?

Why couldn't we both be town? from your perspective that seems more likely than us both being scum I think.

The reason you were in the middle is because I wasn't sure if you or kooshie is the mafia.  I feel like kooshie is a little bit higher, so that's why I said he was higher earlier.

Quote
From your post it seems kooshie is your biggest scumread by far. you also say raerae is a pretty big town read. Your vote is currently on raerae. May I suggest you move it to kooshie?  ;)

Oops, I was going to do that.
Vote: kooshie
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #440 on: January 27, 2013, 09:36:44 pm »

And that doesn't mean I don't think it's liopoil, it's just from the evidence I think kooshie seems a bit more likely.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #441 on: January 27, 2013, 10:29:24 pm »

And that doesn't mean I don't think it's liopoil, it's just from the evidence I think kooshie seems a bit more likely.

Since I think the opposite, I'm going to VOTE: Liopoil, and let's see what the others think.
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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #442 on: January 27, 2013, 10:32:35 pm »

And that doesn't mean I don't think it's liopoil, it's just from the evidence I think kooshie seems a bit more likely.

Since I think the opposite, I'm going to VOTE: Liopoil, and let's see what the others think.

I don't think this is a good D1 lynch, why do you think so? Like obviously you dont think your scummy but what makes liopoil more scummy than kooshie to you
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

EFHW

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #443 on: January 27, 2013, 10:44:43 pm »

And that doesn't mean I don't think it's liopoil, it's just from the evidence I think kooshie seems a bit more likely.

Since I think the opposite, I'm going to VOTE: Liopoil, and let's see what the others think.

I don't think this is a good D1 lynch, why do you think so? Like obviously you dont think your scummy but what makes liopoil more scummy than kooshie to you

What makes a D1 lynch different? 

I really don't read Kooshie as scummy, so Liopoil's case against her seems a tad trumped up to me. 

I don't know if Liopoil is scummy, I just think he's more scummy than Kooshie.  He didn't explain his 2-day absence -- during which time he was active on another game, so he wasn't v/la.  And there's the weak case (imo) against Kooshie.  Not a lot, but more reason to suspect than the others. 
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raerae

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #444 on: January 27, 2013, 10:49:19 pm »

I don't know, guys. I'm about ready to seriously look at Robz. He posted here around 2am Friday morning the not for the rest of the day though he was active in other games. He came back today, posted in other threads, ignored this one...again. We're really only 8 pages into the game and shouldn't really be that hard to throw a few thoughts down. I really had high hopes for Robz to guide and give advice this game but he's disappointed so far.  As hard as he fought to get in and stay in, it seems he'd be more invested.

Sorry but Vote: Robz
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EFHW

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #445 on: January 27, 2013, 10:50:03 pm »

I have a question -- Do people with roles (not vanilla) sometimes come across as scummy because they also have something they are hiding?
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EFHW

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #446 on: January 27, 2013, 10:55:10 pm »

@raerae -- I agree.  Not sure if it makes him Mafia, but it is disappointing.  Are you suggesting lynching him because he's not participating or because you think that points to him being scummy?  I don't know him, but maybe he's town and finds that boring? (That's not a good reason not to play, of course.)
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #447 on: January 27, 2013, 10:59:40 pm »

Town: (everyone's had their not-so-town moments in this game, so, really, I'm not certain about anybody not being scum)

Care to explain what these not-so-town moments are? This sounds like a way to try to put suspicion on everyone except yourself.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #448 on: January 27, 2013, 11:05:52 pm »

I don't know, guys. I'm about ready to seriously look at Robz. He posted here around 2am Friday morning the not for the rest of the day though he was active in other games. He came back today, posted in other threads, ignored this one...again. We're really only 8 pages into the game and shouldn't really be that hard to throw a few thoughts down. I really had high hopes for Robz to guide and give advice this game but he's disappointed so far.  As hard as he fought to get in and stay in, it seems he'd be more invested.

Sorry but Vote: Robz

Sorry, as I noted in the "away" thread, I was unavailable this weekend. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3621.msg182926#msg182926

I'm back now.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Robz888

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Re: Mafia XXI: Another Dinner Party! (Newbie Priority Game - Day 1)
« Reply #449 on: January 27, 2013, 11:06:17 pm »

I have a question -- Do people with roles (not vanilla) sometimes come across as scummy because they also have something they are hiding?

Yes.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.
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