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Author Topic: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway  (Read 7630 times)

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SeahawkTim

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NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« on: September 13, 2011, 04:26:03 am »
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My friends and I are having a difficult time figuring out how to use Remodel properly. The only purpose we can seem to find for it is late in the game to trash a Gold and pick up a Province. Are there any other ways to effectively use a Remodel card?
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Davio

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 04:55:15 am »
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Buying Remodel early with good $2's in the Supply as targets for your Coppers can be very handy. Havens or Hamlets for example.

Also, you can Remodel Estates into Remodels and Remodels into Gold (and Gold into Provinces as you said), aka the "Turbo Remodel Strategy".
This strategy is not as fast as you may think, as you trash just one at a time. Hamlet and multiple actions per turn may help though.
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Geronimoo

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 04:56:44 am »
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Don't worry, my Dominion simulator has the same problem  :P

Seriously, it's already been discussed here
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guided

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 07:47:17 am »
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Also, you can Remodel Estates into Remodels and Remodels into Gold (and Gold into Provinces as you said), aka the "Turbo Remodel Strategy".
This strategy is not as fast as you may think, as you trash just one at a time. Hamlet and multiple actions per turn may help though.
"Turbo Remodel" specifically involves Throne Room and Chapel (targeting a final 5-card deck with nothing but TR/Remodel and 3 Provinces), and even then it isn't fast enough to beat seasoned opponents employing less exotic strategies. It was a fun, toy strategy from back when BSW was the state of the art and the level of competition was a bit lower.

In general, Remodel is not very good as an early trasher. Its most commonly useful scenario is turning $6 cards into Provinces in the endgame, or Provinces into Provinces as an endgame accelerator. It does have other uses of course, like rapid bootstrapping to Grand Markets in the early game.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 07:52:37 am by guided »
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DG

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 07:57:11 am »
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Here we go again. Dominion Site article covering the topic http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/05/03/guest-article-sample-game-planning/.
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ksf_

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2011, 02:07:28 pm »
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I remember a particularly satisfying game with remodel, grand market, and peddler.
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Anon79

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2011, 11:55:44 pm »
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Hmm... Remodel, a $6 action, and a $8 action... lemme guess...
ksf plays a Remodel.
  ... trashing a Grand Market.
  ... gaining a Peddler.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2011, 01:14:46 am »
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Hmm... Remodel, a $6 action, and a $8 action... lemme guess...
ksf plays a Remodel.
  ... trashing a Grand Market.
  ... gaining a Peddler.


I'd say more along the lines of using a string of GMs to buy a bunch of Peddlers, and converting the Peddlers into Provinces.
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Anon79

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2011, 03:44:35 am »
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Hmm... Remodel, a $6 action, and a $8 action... lemme guess...
ksf plays a Remodel.
  ... trashing a Grand Market.
  ... gaining a Peddler.


I'd say more along the lines of using a string of GMs to buy a bunch of Peddlers, and converting the Peddlers into Provinces.
But that's so boring.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2011, 04:25:10 am »
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But why would you Remodel a Grand Market +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$2 into a Peddler +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1? Other than depleting the Peddler pile, which you can probably do easier by playing Grand Markets, how could this possibly benefit you? It's essentially the same as buying a Peddler for $8, something which is almost never done, and happens to be incredibly boring.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2011, 04:48:15 am »
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(It's a joke)
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Jimmmmm

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2011, 04:49:04 am »
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Okay.
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DStu

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2011, 05:00:35 am »
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(It's a joke)
I would have prefered some 'spoiler'-Tags...
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2011, 05:15:47 am »
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Sorry
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Anon79

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2011, 06:09:13 am »
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Seriously though, remodelling the other way - Peddlers into Grand Markets - sounds like a good move, if you can't find other $4+ cards in hand...
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2011, 06:15:30 am »
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Seriously though, remodelling the other way - Peddlers into Grand Markets - sounds like a good move, if you can't find other $4+ cards in hand...

I'd guess by the time you've used GMs to get Peddlers, you're probably in a position where you don't need any more GMs and are ready to Remodel the Peddlers into Provinces...
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Anon79

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2011, 07:08:52 am »
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Seriously though, remodelling the other way - Peddlers into Grand Markets - sounds like a good move, if you can't find other $4+ cards in hand...
I'd guess by the time you've used GMs to get Peddlers, you're probably in a position where you don't need any more GMs and are ready to Remodel the Peddlers into Provinces...
This is starting to depend on what else is on the board.
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Empathy

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2011, 07:51:02 am »
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Another possible use of remodel is just to bootstrap low potion cards into higher ones (university=>golem or golem=>possession). This is useful because low potion cards are easy to grab, but it's usually the high potion ones that are game changing. Also, university/apothecary are a lot less cool once you have golems (and want to maximize the chances of hitting "powerful" cards). Similarly, upgrading/remodeling familiar mid-game is useful.

Also, it can help if there is no +buy card, given that it cheats its way around it. So adding it to make a province+ duchy turn is even province +estate turn at the end of the game is valuable. (or as mentioned, province + cycle province turn to deny a province to your opponent).

The last use I can think of is similar to upgrade, but less effective: If you draw your whole deck, you can remodel a card, then use a cantrip to draw it and play it in the same turn. Again, nothing grand in most common scenarios. There are a few really impressive strategies though based on that concept. Most of them revolve around upgrade, however, because it already has the cantrip built in.

Overall, a situational card. Can be a decent opener if there is nothing else impressive at 4 or 5.
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pooka

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2011, 02:04:40 am »
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Remodel is my favorite trasher, but even so I don't count on chaining remodels.  There has to be a way to get gold such as hoard or treasure map, or else I just use it to remodel within the action decks.  I like it better than any of the precision trashers, like Forge and Remake, or Expand just because Expand is so expensive.  You really have to consider whether it's going to serve you better than gold in a given game, since you'll need an action to use it. 
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Fangz

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2011, 02:37:54 am »
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Another possible use of remodel is just to bootstrap low potion cards into higher ones (university=>golem or golem=>possession). This is useful because low potion cards are easy to grab, but it's usually the high potion ones that are game changing. Also, university/apothecary are a lot less cool once you have golems (and want to maximize the chances of hitting "powerful" cards). Similarly, upgrading/remodeling familiar mid-game is useful.already has the cantrip built in.

Having trash for benefit cards with possession in supply is very dangerous though, and moderately dangerous with golem around.
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Empathy

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Re: NQ: What kind of lame card is Remodel, anyway
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2011, 08:56:16 am »
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Good point about possession + remodel. I still think remodeling into possessions would go faster than most other possession-rushes, and golem + possession in the same deck should make the faster player win. I could be wrong on this point, depending on the other possible possession strategies.

Somehow, I am not too concerned about remodel + golem. upgrade + golem, yes, but remodel rarely has counter-productive targets. Plus, remodel is really good at getting rid of low-cost actions that weaken your golem. I'm pretty sure the advantages outweigh the risks.
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