Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ycz6]

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-113306-635907ae.html

In a Tournament game, I steal his first three non-Copper treasures before he can play them. It's basically over after that, even with Bank around.

[shark_bait]

People undervalue Noble Brigand.  This card can actually be an exceptional card in many circumstances.  Sadly I feel like it suffers from "Thief is not good so why would I want a Thief variant" syndrome. 

[SirPeebles]

People undervalue Noble Brigand.  This card can actually be an exceptional card in many circumstances.  Sadly I feel like it suffers from "Thief is not good so why would I want a Thief variant" syndrome.

I used to avoid Scrying Pool for the same reason, dismissing it as some wordy Spy.  Scavenger is also significantly better than Chancellor.

[DrFlux]

How often is it right to open NB?

I feel like "often" is the right answer when both of these are true:

A. You have a shot at hitting silver
B. You will force a reshuffle

Of course if they have turn 1 silver, and you open turn 1 NB, you only have a 1/3 chance of hitting the silver immediately, but if you do, that's pretty devastating, and even if you don't, their 4 cost thing will still miss the reshuffle.

I was also discussing NB vs familiar with someone, as you could often make their silver or potion miss the first reshuffle. Although I feel like if there was ANY engine support at all, familiar would probably beat out a NB money strategy. Thoughts?

[zahlman]

How often is it right to open NB?

I feel like "often" is the right answer when both of these are true:

A. You have a shot at hitting silver
B. You will force a reshuffle

Of course if they have turn 1 silver, and you open turn 1 NB, you only have a 1/3 chance of hitting the silver immediately, but if you do, that's pretty devastating, and even if you don't, their 4 cost thing will still miss the reshuffle.

I was also discussing NB vs familiar with someone, as you could often make their silver or potion miss the first reshuffle. Although I feel like if there was ANY engine support at all, familiar would probably beat out a NB money strategy. Thoughts?

Well, just because you don't take a Potion right away doesn't mean you have to ignore Alchemy altogehter. If they have turn 1 Potion, and you open turn 1 NB, you have a 1/3 chance of pretty much GG right there, yeah?

[Drab Emordnilap]

Well, just because you don't take a Potion right away doesn't mean you have to ignore Alchemy altogehter. If they have turn 1 Potion, and you open turn 1 NB, you have a 1/3 chance of pretty much GG right there, yeah?

I think you're implying you can steal their Potion with Noble Brigand?

[zahlman]

Oh, wait, that's one of the ways Thief is better

[WanderingWinder]

You should open noble brigand virtually every time the board makes you stick to big money.

[Eevee]

You should open noble brigand virtually every time the board makes you stick to big money.

Even if your opponent doesn't yet have any silver for whatever reason?

[WanderingWinder]

You should open noble brigand virtually every time the board makes you stick to big money.

Even if your opponent doesn't yet have any silver for whatever reason?

iirc, and it's been a long time since I looked at this, it doesn't make a ton of difference, but yes, even then.

[soulnet]

Does BM + NB beat Masq + BM or JoaT + BM or Wharf + BM? That would be soooo surprising! Especially for Masq and Wharf, is adding a NB instead of a Silver a good idea? The potential collision seems not worth it.

Also, if your oponent is going JoaT, NB seems kind of a liability. You will steal Silver often, but he is also gaining Silvers with Jack and the other benefits of Jack seem much better than the +1. And against a BM opponent, I guess you will never or almost never give him a Copper to make the attack hurt their economy.

[ftl]

I remember looking at this. In simulation, spamming Noble Brigand does not beat Wharf-BM or DoubleJack, but it does beat Masq-BM - but that's only in simulation. In practice, the simulators are probably extra-vulnerable to attacks because they do not respond properly.

In a big money game with Masq and NB, you probably want both.

I don't know about Wharf. Wharf is just so good, you probably want to skip NB to get silver to get wharves and play more wharves.

[WanderingWinder]

I remember looking at this. In simulation, spamming Noble Brigand does not beat Wharf-BM or DoubleJack, but it does beat Masq-BM - but that's only in simulation. In practice, the simulators are probably extra-vulnerable to attacks because they do not respond properly.

In a big money game with Masq and NB, you probably want both.

I don't know about Wharf. Wharf is just so good, you probably want to skip NB to get silver to get wharves and play more wharves.

Yeah. Except, I don't think 'responding wrong' is really the case - how do you respond? I mean, they aren't responding right, because you should grab noble brigands! But except for wharf (man, wharf does everything), the answer is usually to mix your other strong BM card WITH brigand, or of course go for an engine, or kingdom treasures, etc.

And re-checking the 'do I even buy Noble brigand on turn 1?!' - yes, yes you do. You really do.

[soulnet]

And re-checking the 'do I even buy Noble brigand on turn 1?!' - yes, yes you do. You really do.

Is this just because of your opponent's T2 buy missing the reshuffle? Or you are also trying to delay silver to avoid getting robed yourself? (compared to buying it on turns 3 or 4, I don't see any other reason).

[WanderingWinder]

And re-checking the 'do I even buy Noble brigand on turn 1?!' - yes, yes you do. You really do.

Is this just because of your opponent's T2 buy missing the reshuffle? Or you are also trying to delay silver to avoid getting robed yourself? (compared to buying it on turns 3 or 4, I don't see any other reason).

It's mostly because you're going to have so many NB flying that money won't stick around so long, so it doesn't do that much for you, and no kidding, you actually need to win the NB split here.

[zahlman]

and no kidding, you actually need to win the NB split here.

"winning the split" on a terminal on a board with no +action? O__O

[jonts26]

and no kidding, you actually need to win the NB split here.

"winning the split" on a terminal on a board with no +action? O__O

Same goes for ghost ship/BM.

[DrFlux]

I remember looking at this. In simulation, spamming Noble Brigand does not beat Wharf-BM or DoubleJack, but it does beat Masq-BM - but that's only in simulation. In practice, the simulators are probably extra-vulnerable to attacks because they do not respond properly.

In a big money game with Masq and NB, you probably want both.

I don't know about Wharf. Wharf is just so good, you probably want to skip NB to get silver to get wharves and play more wharves.

Interesting question: In a Wharf/NB game, if your open buys a silver T1, and you have 4 on YOUR T1, do you buy NB then? My intuition would be yes, because 1/3 games you will just win by stealing their silver. Even if you don't, the NB will still be useful, and you will still make them miss their reshuffle for their $4 card.

I agree that barring this circumstance Wharf > NB to the point you want to skip NB (if its a money board).

[DrFlux]

I'd actually love to see a NB game log where winning the split was important. Haven't played that many.