Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Why he was able to line up Goons more often in a bigger deck with less draw?  (Read 1735 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

zahlman

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 724
  • Respect: +216
    • View Profile
0

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/31/game-20121231-011626-be1d1ad0.html

He buys Copper with every double Goons turn and ends up with way more cards than me, while I add a Salvager to trash more, and take more Wharves. But somehow he seems to keep being able to line them up, while my Goons hardly ever collide and even less often with an available Village. What's going on here?
Logged

heron

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1055
  • Shuffle iT Username: heron
  • Respect: +1183
    • View Profile
0

I think it might have been the villages. He had seven to your three. Also he had two more goonses than you.
But I say it was probably all of his worker's villages, because that's the major difference between your decks.

So, yeah. I'd say it was the villages, goonses, and a bit of luck, of course.
Logged

Tdog

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
  • Respect: +133
    • View Profile
0

Also 1 wharf isn't that big of a gap.
Logged

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
0

I think you certainly overloaded on terminals with salvager, 2 smugglers, and a moneylender. Smugglers might help get you started but you eventually want to be spending treasure with extra buys from goons, as opposed to gaining cards. I think you lost sight of the final deck you wanted which was essentially any size deck full of wharves, goons, worker's villages. The villages become a big constraint when you want to play a lot of goons and wharves at the finish.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 04:36:40 pm by DG »
Logged

ehunt

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1528
  • Shuffle iT Username: ehunt
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
0

the following is good psychological advice which is actually bad strategy advice - if you're like me and get ragequitty, one important thing to remember about goons games is that an early goons is a really big deal. your opponent manages one on the second shuffle and you don't (after a mirror opening, so this is just luck), and is probably going to win the game. little decisions like when to start buying copper or how many wharves to get definitely matter, and if your opponent makes terrible mistakes with these decisions, they can sometimes cause you to get a comeback, but they only matter at the margins. it's often best just to accept that you're probably going to lose when they get that goons (especially when you don't get one on the next shuffle) and not worry about the details of how they are playing. it's bad strategy advice because you really should be paying attention to every little mistake your opponent makes! it's just that you shouldn't equate "my opponent is making a mistake right now" with "i am likely to win this game."
Logged

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
0

I completely disagree with ehunt. Very often getting the first Goons is a trivial matter. Take, for example, those games where -Stef- opens with Trade Route or Develop and builds a better Goons engine than the opponent, who got his Goons first, and wins.

I don't see why the first Goons is always so important. The attack is annoying, but Militia does the same thing. The handful of VP that it yields early on is dwarfed by the megaturn VP that it'll yield later on. The vanilla bonuses aren't really that amazing (though getting the first Goons is substantially more important when there's no other +buy on the board).

Goons starts to sting more when it's played every turn. It's easier to play it every turn when you have an engine that can support it. Quite often, buying a Goons prematurely means that you just have another terminal that you may or may not be able to play. In this game in particular, I think zahlman would have benefited from focusing early on WV and Wharves while getting a single Goons along the way (hypothetically speaking, of course, because his reshuffle in the actual game was absolutely terrible).
Logged

RisingJaguar

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 527
  • Respect: +184
    • View Profile
0

Even if you don't get the best shuffle luck to begin with, you don't really make things better.  I count 6-7 terminals by T10 with one worker's village.  I know the salvager was intended to trash the estates, but your deck can't do a million things at once with only one village.  Get more villages, its a limited resource.  Now say there was also vanilla village in the game, then maybe you can delay it, but the difference between 6-4 or even 7-3 village is great in a deck where all you want to do is play multiple actions. 

I also think your deck would have cycled better if you focused getting wishing wells instead of silvers.  Instead of buying a lot of one-a-time trashers to trim your deck, often buying cards that cycle (wishing well) speeds up the process better.  The deck's goal isn't to buy really expensive things like provinces/colonies, its purpose is to pester with constant goons and also play multiple goons.  Silver does not help you here and actually makes things worse.  Wishing well doesn't help you that much in increasing hand size/cycling, but it doesn't HURT.  Of course if you do do this, then you would need to manage your dollars better and ensure you still get to $6 relatively early but to follow Dondon's point, a T9-10 Goon isn't horrible if you've set your deck to play these cards more often. 
Logged

zahlman

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 724
  • Respect: +216
    • View Profile
0

See, I thought I was going to get Villages from the Smugglers, but it didn't happen :(
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.206 seconds with 22 queries.