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[Dsell]

I posted this on the BGG forums but I tend to trust all of you better anyway.


Dominion is one of my favorite games, I play a lot online and with the cards. I especially love engine-building and playing out those engines, I love a turn that feels big and chain-reactiony. I adore awesome combos.

I'm also looking to round out my game collection a bit.

Games I really enjoy and either own or have easy access to:

Dominion (and multiple expansions)
Race for the Galaxy (and The Gathering Storm)
Cosmic Encounter
Puerto Rico
Stone Age
Carcassonne
7 Wonders
Pandemic
Smallworld
Power Grid
Kingdom Builder
Escape: Curse of the Temple
Tikal
Settlers
King of Tokyo

I've played Trajan and Dominant Species once each and enjoyed both a lot. I'm probably forgetting some things here.

I'd like to buy something that can fill a gap in my collection, and I've been hoping for a while for something that can give me big and meaningful-feeling turns like a Dominion engine.

Unless you have a really good case to make, I'm not interested in the Dominion clones like Thunderstone, Ascension, and Puzzle Strike. I AM, however, interested in other types of deck-builders, like perhaps Netrunner. Glory to Rome and its little bro Innovation look pretty interesting, I think I like the feeling of things being a bit out of control crazy, as long as the insane power of my combo is matched by the mind-blowing power of yours.

Other than those, I'm not sure where to look, but I'm interested! Tableau-building is alright but I don't think I want to go much more complex than RFTG (it's fine for me, but I like playing with other people!).

Bonus points (but not at all requirements) if a game:

-Is space efficient. I'm a college kid, and man, they don't give us big tables.
-Plays in a reasonable amount of time. I'll mostly only be able to play 90+ minute games 4.5 months of the year.
-Can reasonably be taught to non-gamers. Let's call them not-yet-gamers.

[Drab Emordnilap]

I have huge respect for Glory to Rome and Innovation both. I'll play either of those at any time.

[DG]

How about Endeavor? You don't build an engine as such, but you accumulate assets through the game that provide you with actions to use each turn. It's probably not a gateway game but it is quite straightforward to play and fits 90 minutes. It does need a fair sized table but probably only a touch more than Powergrid.

[Dsell]

I should have responded to both of these sooner! I still haven't decided on a game, several other expensive things have come up, which just means I have even longer to agonize over which games to choose!

@Bard: I really love Innovation and am getting my friends hooked on it online. And I have pretty much decided that I am getting Glory to Rome, it just looks like awesome incarnate to me, but it (at least the Black Box edition) is frequently out of stock, so I am hoping to be able to snipe a copy when there's one cheap somewhere.

How about Endeavor? You don't build an engine as such, but you accumulate assets through the game that provide you with actions to use each turn. It's probably not a gateway game but it is quite straightforward to play and fits 90 minutes. It does need a fair sized table but probably only a touch more than Powergrid.

Endeavor looks really cool to me, and I've heard nothing but good things about it (except for one person who said Eclipse does everything it does better). This one especially sounds like a great one to play over the summer, when I have a 5-player gaming group that loves games a bit on the heavier side. I am hoping to find it at my FLGS since it's apparently out of print and really hard to find anywhere online for a reasonable price.

[ycz6]

I hear Eminent Domain is pretty sweet, though I haven't played it myself.

[percycpcpc]

Eminent Domain is good but it has quite low replay value.
The first 10 game is nice, after that it is just formula.

[Ozle]

How about London?

Only played a couple of games of it so far, but it seems a bit Engine-y, but doesn't really fit into the Dominion mold in that you dont re-use a lot of cards.

[Kirian]

Eminent Domain is good but it has quite low replay value.
The first 10 game is nice, after that it is just formula.

Strongly disagree.  While it doesn't have the replay value of Dominion (because of the lack of card diversity), it most definitely isn't formulaic and has some deep strategy involved.

[Dsell]

London looks fun. Its only disadvantage is something that I forgot to mention in the OP: I'd love a game that can be played with 5. My gaming group when I'm at home (~4.5 months of the year) consists of 5 players. So while it's not a requirement that games play well up to 5, it is a huge, huge plus.

Another thing that I am really curious about, if anyone (Drab emordnilap?) happens to have the niche knowledge: GtR vs Uchronia. I was mentioning above how I just have to get my hands on a copy of GtR but it's hard to come by at a reasonable price. Apparently Uchronia is super, super similar with a few differences that some say make the game better and some say make it worse. I'd love to get opinions on whether I'd be disappointed if I buy Uchronia as a substitute for GtR (having played neither).

[Drab Emordnilap]

Another thing that I am really curious about, if anyone (Drab emordnilap?) happens to have the niche knowledge: GtR vs Uchronia. I was mentioning above how I just have to get my hands on a copy of GtR but it's hard to come by at a reasonable price. Apparently Uchronia is super, super similar with a few differences that some say make the game better and some say make it worse. I'd love to get opinions on whether I'd be disappointed if I buy Uchronia as a substitute for GtR (having played neither).

I've never actually played Uchronia, but from what I've read, it plays very similarly to Glory to Rome. If you've never played Glory to Rome, I'd feel confident saying you wouldn't be disappointed with Uchronia. If you can get Uchronia that much more easily that GtR, then go for it.

[theory]

Frisk is a huge fan of Netrunner and won't stop recommending it to me.

[Ozle]

The trouble with Engine games for 5 to 6 players is that i always find it makes them a lot more random, which is precisely what you are NOT looking for in Engine games.

The good 5/6 player games I can think of are the complete opposite scale to Engines.

[Qvist]

Frisk is a huge fan of Netrunner and won't stop recommending it to me.

I was surpised to see it in the Top 10 at BGG so quickly. Is it really that good?

[Davio]

Frisk is a huge fan of Netrunner and won't stop recommending it to me.

I was surpised to see it in the Top 10 at BGG so quickly. Is it really that good?

Dunnow, think it's hyped at the moment, but we'll have to wait and see.

[Dsell]

Frisk is a huge fan of Netrunner and won't stop recommending it to me.

I was surpised to see it in the Top 10 at BGG so quickly. Is it really that good?

Yeah, I was impressed with this too. I think I'm gonna pick this one up too!

The trouble with Engine games for 5 to 6 players is that i always find it makes them a lot more random, which is precisely what you are NOT looking for in Engine games.

The good 5/6 player games I can think of are the complete opposite scale to Engines.

This is really true, alas! Maybe the game I'm hoping for doesn't exist. Trying to build an engine in Dominion with 5 players is a total mess. But I'm not just interested in card engines, I was hoping there could be other games that have that same sort of feel but don't suffer with more players. Trajan was really cool, but only goes to 4, in the BGG thread people were recommending Macao, which sounds great but also caps out at 4. Anyone know if that can be modified to play 5 without problems?

@Bard: That is really encouraging! I think I will keep my eyes open for GtR for a short while longer but if it doesn't come back in stock at Coolstuffinc soon (or if it does and sells out in a couple hours while I'm sleeping, like before), I'll grab Uchronia and won't look back.

[brokoli]

Seasons, Innovation, Ginkgopolis, Castles of Burgundy. But MAINLY Seasons.

I tried quarriors, I don't really like it.

[Drab Emordnilap]

@Bard: That is really encouraging! I think I will keep my eyes open for GtR for a short while longer but if it doesn't come back in stock at Coolstuffinc soon (or if it does and sells out in a couple hours while I'm sleeping, like before), I'll grab Uchronia and won't look back.

I don't know what shipping is like to where you live, but funagain has the original Glory to Rome in stock. The Black Box is very sleek, but it's the same game underneath the art and colors.

[theory]

Personally I prefer the older version.  The Black Box edition is sleek and stylized and just like every other damn game out there.  The original is tacky, wacky, silly, ugly, and totally fitting with its theme.

[Dsell]

The main thing for me is the box vs the tray. But I'm checking out Funagain to see if it'll be a better price to get the stuff I want!

Seasons, Innovation, Ginkgopolis, Castles of Burgundy. But MAINLY Seasons.

I tried quarriors, I don't really like it.

I'd heard of Ginkgopolis but had no idea it had some of the things I'm looking for. But I checked it out on BGG and it plays up to 5 in 45 minutes? This sounds really really great!

[Qvist]

Gingkopolis is also on my "to play" list

[mith]

Ginkgopolis is excellent. I am impatiently waiting for my copy to arrive.

(It does play very differently with 4 or 5 - I played with 5 once and the game was over before you could set much up. It works, but I would mainly recommend it with 2 or 3.)

[Watno]

I played Gingkopolis once and hated it.

[Dsell]

Ginkgopolis is excellent. I am impatiently waiting for my copy to arrive.

(It does play very differently with 4 or 5 - I played with 5 once and the game was over before you could set much up. It works, but I would mainly recommend it with 2 or 3.)

So...like Dominion? XD

Is it something that can be worked around, where you can just morph your strategy to rush points like I would in Dominion? Can it still be fun even if it's less elegant?

[mith]

With Dominion, the pace of the game is not dependent so much on the number of players, apart from the 2-3 player vs. 4-6 player difference in victory cards per player... and even there, as far as "how many points do I need?" your goal is largely the same (fewer points per player, but the weaker players aren't going to get their share).

With Ginkgopolis, one of the endgame conditions is the tiles running out twice, and with more players that just happens faster. (The other endgame condition will also happen faster, because there are fewer available resources per player, but I haven't personally seen anyone run out yet so I'm not sure how often it should happen.) The tile endgame condition is also not tied strongly to winning - someone may have an engine to gain a lot of tiles and be doing poorly.

There's also a lot more luck in how the "board" ends up looking, just based on who draws new cards first (or at least who is first able to use them), and this can have a big effect on endgame scoring (the 5p game I played had one region end up with 5-5-4-4, giving one player 18 points vs. 5 for the guy he tied with and 0 for the two of us finished one short).

All that said, I still enjoyed it, it just wouldn't be my preference.

[mith]

(I would agree with the recommendation of The Castles of Burgundy, though it only plays 2-4 and doesn't feel as much like an engine game as some of the others. I would probably argue that Hansa Teutonica is more of an engine game, actually - that's the first thing that came to mind while talking about games that work with 5.)