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Author Topic: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web  (Read 247981 times)

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markusin

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #200 on: September 22, 2013, 03:29:42 pm »
0

BM+Monument is dead even with the simple Rebuild Strategy, and so is DoubleJack.
DoubleMountebank beats it 60-40. i fear I havwe to start thinking about what to do again when I see Rebuild on the board.

My thoughts exactly. Gulp.
I've been saying for a while that some simple BM strategies are the way to compete with rebuild. However, I don't exactly buy that this simulator is playing rebuild near optimally....

The Rebuild bots I wrote aren't even close to optimal. They pay no attention to the cards in their draw pile, the Duchy split, the VP totals, etc. It's easy to write nearly-optimal BM strategies, but it'll take a lot more Dominiate code to produce a bot that plays a halfway decent Rebuild game. If anyone does write a better version, send me the Dominiate code and I'll add it to the server.

Comparing DoubleJack or Monument-BM to RebuildSimple wouldn't be meaningful even if the bot was smarter. RebuildSimple doesn't use any terminals. Adding just one Jack gives you the RebuildJack strategy, and even that's enough to beat DoubleJack 60-40.
Though the Rebuild bots may not be playing optimally, it's interesting that Chapel/Young Witch really goes to town of RebuildSimple and even has a slight edge over RebuildJack. That's not the case for Witch/Chapel and Mountebank Chapel. I guess the results would be very different depending on the Young Witch Bane.
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ftl

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #201 on: September 22, 2013, 04:16:32 pm »
0

Without a Bane, young witch really is super-powerful.
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markusin

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #202 on: September 22, 2013, 05:30:51 pm »
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So, uh, BM-Smithy handily beats BM-Masquerade on Dominiate. I thought BM-Masquerade was supposed to be really good.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #203 on: September 22, 2013, 05:41:05 pm »
+1

So, uh, BM-Smithy handily beats BM-Masquerade on Dominiate. I thought BM-Masquerade was supposed to be really good.
Well, first thing is that the Smithy deck has Colonies. Also, the masq deck neither plays the endgame at all well, nor actually plays the tactics of masquerade super well.

markusin

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #204 on: September 22, 2013, 08:46:55 pm »
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So, uh, BM-Smithy handily beats BM-Masquerade on Dominiate. I thought BM-Masquerade was supposed to be really good.
Well, first thing is that the Smithy deck has Colonies. Also, the masq deck neither plays the endgame at all well, nor actually plays the tactics of masquerade super well.
Thanks for the insight. I was suspicious about the Masquerade bot trashing copper when it would otherwise have $8 to spend, and it does that. I doubt I would have noticed the Colonies gaining of Smithy, but removing Colonies for BM-Smithy had next to no effect on win%.

However, Masquerade-BM seems to have a slight edge against Smithy in Geronimoo's simulator, where it holds on to copper when I needs the extra copper to buy Province or even Gold.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #205 on: September 22, 2013, 10:06:34 pm »
0

So, uh, BM-Smithy handily beats BM-Masquerade on Dominiate. I thought BM-Masquerade was supposed to be really good.
Well, first thing is that the Smithy deck has Colonies. Also, the masq deck neither plays the endgame at all well, nor actually plays the tactics of masquerade super well.
Thanks for the insight. I was suspicious about the Masquerade bot trashing copper when it would otherwise have $8 to spend, and it does that. I doubt I would have noticed the Colonies gaining of Smithy, but removing Colonies for BM-Smithy had next to no effect on win%.
I suspect that you didn't reset the simulation - you have to do this, or it will just tack on the new games on top of what was already established, rather than starting again with your new script.

blueblimp

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #206 on: September 23, 2013, 12:33:38 am »
0

I wouldn't be surprised if BM+Masq is not much better than BM+Smithy, head-to-head. The main strength of BM+Masq is how nicely it resists junkers. Same idea as how BM+Jack isn't super fast but has very nice resilience to attacks.
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markusin

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #207 on: September 23, 2013, 09:45:34 am »
0

So, uh, BM-Smithy handily beats BM-Masquerade on Dominiate. I thought BM-Masquerade was supposed to be really good.
Well, first thing is that the Smithy deck has Colonies. Also, the masq deck neither plays the endgame at all well, nor actually plays the tactics of masquerade super well.
Thanks for the insight. I was suspicious about the Masquerade bot trashing copper when it would otherwise have $8 to spend, and it does that. I doubt I would have noticed the Colonies gaining of Smithy, but removing Colonies for BM-Smithy had next to no effect on win%.
I suspect that you didn't reset the simulation - you have to do this, or it will just tack on the new games on top of what was already established, rather than starting again with your new script.
No, I was sure to reset the simulator results, and removed both Colonies and Platinums from BM-Smithy Buy priorities. BM-Smithy still wins with over 60% winrate with the default buy rules in Dominiate.

However, changing the buy rules of Masquerade to match the ones used in Geronimoo's Simulator makes it win against the default BM-Smithy bot in Dominiate. Only after adjusting the buy rules of the BM-Smithy bot similarly do the two strategies have a roughly 50-50 win%
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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #208 on: September 23, 2013, 11:00:54 am »
+4

Are you planning on adding all cards to the simulator, AI?

No. Only the ones I'm most interested in and the most easily programmed. I plan to do Cultist next.

Do Rats next! Goko showed us how easy it is to implement a good Rats strategy  ;) :P ::)
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ragingduckd

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #209 on: September 24, 2013, 08:39:53 am »
+2

Are you planning on adding all cards to the simulator, AI?

No. Only the ones I'm most interested in and the most easily programmed. I plan to do Cultist next.

Do Rats next! Goko showed us how easy it is to implement a good Rats strategy  ;) :P ::)

Wish granted:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/dominiate/play.html#LordBottington/AdvisorBM
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #210 on: September 24, 2013, 04:08:41 pm »
+3

Are you planning on adding all cards to the simulator, AI?

No. Only the ones I'm most interested in and the most easily programmed. I plan to do Cultist next.

Do Rats next! Goko showed us how easy it is to implement a good Rats strategy  ;) :P ::)

Wish granted:

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/dominiate/play.html#LordBottington/AdvisorBM

Just a *shade* worse than Advisor-BM (47.5-52.5)

So...pretty awesome!
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SCSN

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #211 on: October 01, 2013, 03:27:45 am »
+2

I've started teaching this thing how to play a reasonable Rebuild game, and he's a surprisingly fast learner:

Quote
== RebuildMirror's turn 13 ==
RebuildMirror plays Rebuild.
...RebuildMirror names Estate.
...RebuildMirror reveals [Estate, Duchy].
...RebuildMirror discards [Estate].
...RebuildMirror trashes RebuildMirror's Duchy.
...RebuildMirror gains Province.
RebuildMirror plays Rebuild.
...RebuildMirror names Province.
(RebuildMirror shuffles.)
...RebuildMirror reveals [Copper, Copper, Copper, Province, Duchy].
...RebuildMirror discards [Copper, Copper, Copper, Province].
...RebuildMirror trashes RebuildMirror's Duchy.
...RebuildMirror gains Province.
Coins: 3, Potions: 0, Buys: 1
RebuildMirror buys Estate.
RebuildMirror draws 5 cards: [Copper, Copper, Silver, Silver, Silver].

:)

BM+Monument is dead even with the simple Rebuild Strategy, and so is DoubleJack.
DoubleMountebank beats it 60-40. i fear I havwe to start thinking about what to do again when I see Rebuild on the board.

Don't worry, a few lessons were enough to reverse the score: Rebuild - DoubleMountebank: ~60:40.

He still couldn't quite beat DoubleWitch, but with a little help from alternatively some Horse Traders and a Jack, the Witches were soon dead.

Now his most challenging opponent is himself, in the Mirror, which are really quite interesting games to watch. Please let me know if you spot something weird, because although he plays fairly well, I expect him to make the occasional blunder still.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 11:53:41 am by SheCantSayNo »
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SCSN

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #212 on: October 01, 2013, 11:18:55 am »
0

Looks like RebuildJack beats all available non-Rebuild strategies, including BankWharf. Is anyone up for a challenge? :)
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achmed_sender

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #213 on: October 01, 2013, 12:06:18 pm »
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Looks like RebuildJack beats all available non-Rebuild strategies, including BankWharf. Is anyone up for a challenge? :)

They are all not on the simulator, but all these kind of cards definitely beat Rebuild-Jack: KC-Bridge with great engine support, Vineyards dreamboard, Hermit-Marketsquare, possibly some Governor strategies, Goons engines, HoP megaturns, possibly a lot more games with Colony available

But yeah, not really much more...  :(
But at least Rebuild-Jack is a two card combo of two very good cards (and you can't really change Jack with something else her), so this is coming up very rarely (0.2% of the games), but Rebuild is darn strong itself and this will come up every 21th game, so it's at least good to know it's beatable about every 5th time (without support).
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 12:08:23 pm by achmed_sender »
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SCSN

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #214 on: October 01, 2013, 12:27:31 pm »
+1

Yeah, I'm obviously not claiming that RebuildJack is the strongest possible thing in the entire game :)

Quote
But at least Rebuild-Jack is a two card combo of two very good cards (and you can't really change Jack with something else her)

You actually can, but not in an "of All Trades" fashion: you have to let the companion card depend on the opposing strategy. E.g. RebuildHorse performs as well or even slightly better against DoubleWitch as RebuildJack, but BankWharf crushes RebuildHorse. RebuildMonument (not implemented atm), on the other hand, loses against DoubleWitch but beats BankWharf much harder than RebuildJack does.
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qmech

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #215 on: October 01, 2013, 01:09:22 pm »
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Looks like RebuildJack beats all available non-Rebuild strategies, including BankWharf. Is anyone up for a challenge? :)

The classic Drunk Marine Students?
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DStu

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #216 on: October 01, 2013, 01:17:52 pm »
+1

Looks like RebuildJack beats all available non-Rebuild strategies, including BankWharf. Is anyone up for a challenge? :)

The classic Drunk Marine Students?
Also, these guys will certainly stand a chance...
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DStu

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #217 on: October 01, 2013, 02:54:18 pm »
+5

Maybe also Beggar/Gardens with Duchy>Beggar(2--4)>Gardens>Beggar>Estate>Copper? Might be able to tie or slightly win the Duchy race and gather more points after this?
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ragingduckd

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #218 on: October 01, 2013, 04:54:15 pm »
+4

Maybe also Beggar/Gardens with Duchy>Beggar(2--4)>Gardens>Beggar>Estate>Copper? Might be able to tie or slightly win the Duchy race and gather more points after this?

Good Lord!

http://gokosalvager.com/static/dominiate/play.html#RebuildJack/BeggarGardens
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DStu

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #219 on: October 01, 2013, 05:27:54 pm »
+2

Maybe also Beggar/Gardens with Duchy>Beggar(2--4)>Gardens>Beggar>Estate>Copper? Might be able to tie or slightly win the Duchy race and gather more points after this?

Good Lord!

/bow

I probably wouldn't save it as vanilla BeggarsGardens in the simulator, because if you don't want to counter Rebuild, you will want to play it  differently...
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Warfreak2

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #220 on: October 01, 2013, 06:33:15 pm »
0

How about Masterpiece/Gardens?
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SCSN

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #221 on: October 03, 2013, 10:16:16 am »
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I improved my Rebuild scripts a little and added RebuildMonument, which beats BankWharf by more than 70-30 and loses to BeggarGardens "only" 60-40 or so.
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qmech

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #222 on: October 03, 2013, 11:37:27 am »
+3

Naive Drunk Marine Students only gets 1 in 3 against RebuildMonument.

Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'Drunk Marine Students'
  requires: ['Potion', 'University', 'Vineyard', 'Wharf']
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "University"
    "Vineyard"
    "Potion"
    "Wharf"
    "Silver"
  ]
}
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SCSN

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #223 on: October 03, 2013, 12:03:36 pm »
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Haha, I had never seen that one before. Added it, for what is drunkensailor without some similarly drunk marine students?
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DStu

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Re: Dominiate: a Dominion simulator that runs on the Web
« Reply #224 on: October 03, 2013, 01:46:36 pm »
0

Naive Drunk Marine Students only gets 1 in 3 against RebuildMonument.

Code: [Select]
{
  name: 'Drunk Marine Students'
  requires: ['Potion', 'University', 'Vineyard', 'Wharf']
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "University"
    "Vineyard"
    "Potion"
    "Wharf"
    "Silver"
  ]
}
I'm quite sure there are also some Apothecarys in the Drunken Marine Studens (probably against the headaches...)
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