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[Archetype]

I'm not usually the one to throw the first vote, but, dude, Archetype. If you know Axxle is SK, why haven't you said so before? This is what I read:

"Hi, guys! /.../ Banter /.../ Oh, btw, Axxle is SK. I know this. I don't want to say how I know this, or even if I know this for a fact, but guys. He is. And I'm not even bothering to vote for him."

Sounds an awful lot like you're trying to get a lynch going.

Vote: Archetype

My guess is that you are scum.

Hah. No I'm not scum.

There's a reason I've kept my mouth shut about things. We are:

1st

Choosing 1: ashersky or Axxle to be scum. I chose Axxle, sparky chose Axxle, I'm assuming ashersky will pick Axxle. PPE: Seems you're undecided between the 2.

Then we start the massclaim. I've laid out a list in the order people should claim. I'm technically only a half IC, so to prevent me from misleading you, Galz is free to make any logical changes as well as choose at what point I claim during the massclaim.

If you've seen the list, Lekkit, you can see you're at the top. There is a very specific reason for this.

[Lekkit]

Archetype, technically you're not an IC at all. But even with your math, you're only 1/3 IC. Assuming Ashersky is telling the truth. If he's not, then you're actually 0 IC.

[sparky5856]

FWIW, I prefer not to use the term "IC" unless we're actually talking about an IC. ashersky claimed Archetype is not WW. He still has a long way to reach IC-status. Archetype could still be mafia, the SK, and hey ashersky could be lying/making stuff up, in which case Archetype could actually be a WW. But what do we know.

[Archetype]

True.

I said 1/2 because we were assuming the Mafia was dead. I guess there could be a single member left.

And yeah, maybe I'm using IC a little too loosely. But I guess I'm more likely Town than anyone else (except Galz) or asher and I are pulling an impressive scum trick. I'll go by NWW (Non Werewolf) from now on.

Lekkit: Are you voting me because I'm acting scummy? Or because my refusal to say why I know Axxle is a SK is suspicious?

[sparky5856]

True.

I said 1/2 because we were assuming the Mafia was dead. I guess there could be a single member left.

Hard to tell who's left. The kill flavor for today didn't help with that. I would guess one more mafia and one more WW and a SK, because that's how it was in Arcana I. The faction with the major arcana only had 2 members.

[Archetype]

I thought it was WW themed. The Mafia's usually involve bullrts, and the Serial Killer uses a knife.

[Lekkit]

I'm voting you because I think you are scum.

Here are some goodies.

Sorry I'm late.

Ok so it seems that Insomniac is one of those super crazy powers. That's good if he's town, but if we have no Doctor, this could be bad. But if he indeed did catch scum, maybe a super PR for 1 scum member isn't that bad...? Maybe.

Also, nice way of presenting your investigation, Insom. It's interesting to see their reactions.

Buddying right off the bat.

Uhh ok. So Eevee's the Bulletproof guy. He's now an IC now? Cool, so that narrows it down to Robz and Galzria.

First off, Eevee has never been an IC. And as it turned out, he wasn't even town. Secondly, this is the first time you mention Galz as suspicious. Added for completion.

Galzria is supposedly the Strongman (?) Vigilante, right? Well that really sucks. If he's scum, he's going to be shooting Eevee tonight. But I guess he couldn't for some WIFOM. Hmm.

I think I'm going to Vote: Robz. Galzria seems scarier as scum, but Robz's actions so far have been scummy, brash, and paranoid compared to Galz. And of course, if Robz flips town, we can always go after Galz.

Let's hunt Galz.

I think that if Robz flips Town, and Galz is scum, he's going to shoot whoever he wants.

Regardless of who he shoots, if Robz flips Town, we're lynching him tommorow, right?

This reads to me as some kind of attempt to make sure that there's a lynch candidate for the day after. Also, it just happens to be Galz.

I think I want to lynch Galz today. I don't really want to lynch another MA (especially if he's town) and Galz is a named VT now while having a MA as scum would be powerful.

But there is Grujah's 'proof' that Galz is the Strongman and Eevee has been scrambling.

I honestly don't know. This whole Galz/Eevee/Insomniac/Robz thing makes my brain hurt. Either of them could honestly be scum, especially after confTown Insomniac suspected Galz more than Robz.


I'm going to do Vote: Galzria. I'll be rereading a bunch though to try and figure this mess out. I do think that one of these 2 should be our lynch candidates for today.

And the day after, you go for Galz when Eevee is acting more scummy. EVEN though you said that Eevee was probably more scummy and that Galz was likely to be a VT.

I think its possible both MAs could be Town. Both MAs were scum last game.

I really think Eevee should fullclaim. I dont think I want to let him undber the basis of "I'm a MA so you should let me live!!"

I mean, it would suck if we lose him and he's Town, but it would suck even more if we let him live and he's Scum.

What would a fullclaim do in this case? Probably help scum plan better rather than convince town that he is town.

We could just No Lynch, or lynch someone else today. We see if Eevee Lightning Rods. If he does, that means he is most likely Town and then we lynch Galz. If he doesnt, then we lynch Eevee tommorow.

LET'S LYNCH GALZ!!!

What are we going to do after we lynch Eevee? Lynch Galz?

...

I do now.

I checked the OP to make the list, and saw he was dead.

Wooooops. So no, I guess he isn't scum.

HOW ON EARTH DO CAN YOU MISS SOMETHING THIS HUGE? I don't buy it. I think it's a rouse to make you sound more towny. This could be due to me tunneling you right now, though.

I am thinking there is a SK. The whole 'slit throat' doesn't really fit with Eevee's role, and I don't think the real SK would have said 'Hey! I did that! Not him!'

I think they would be nudging at lynching him...

I do not think that there is any Mafia left.

I think there is one or 2 WW left. Probably only one though.

I have a couple people I think they could be, but I'll wait until after everyone has claimed.

It's fun being an IC! Well, I guess I'm not a complete IC. I could be the remaining Mafia, or a SK. But Galz is a full IC, you should probably trust him more than me.

So basically you think there's a SK but no Mafia based on the lack of Mafia NK? Then tell me, where is the SK NK? I think you're the last Mafia and trying to hide it by making it sound like there's no mafia left when by that logic there should be neither mafia nor SK.

Add to that that you've been trying to cling as hard as you can to your "IC" status and that you've been really pushing for a Galz lynch for the last days. I'm voting you because I think you are Mafia.

[Lekkit]

Thinking about it, I guess you could be WW buddy with asher too.

[Grujah]

I Agree with Lekkit.

Arch, you are not nearly an IC. One unconfirmed players confirms an already known fact and states that you are not WW. Big deal. You could be of other faction, or an Alpha werewolf, or Ash is just lying.
I have other theories which I won't reveal.

But your stance that you are superinnocent now, and even worse, you're unexplained "I KNOW" stance on Axxle (if you really knew, and you were concern'd about seemingly upcoming massclaim, you'd wouldn't go screaming "I KNOW"). That and you hedging about Fuzzers and Galz when it was dead obvious. "Jo is dead?" is a small sip too.

I could lynch you in a heartbeat.

As for Axxle vs ash. Axxle is lurky, but he always is. Ash claim is stronger, but easily made up. Ash was bit on the side, not in the main arguments. Axxle was way more heavy on Evs. I'd say Ash is more likely to be SK.

[Galzria]

Thank you Grujah.

I still want others to weigh in, but I would like Arche to claim at this time.

Lekkit, I do not think Arche is Mafia.

[sparky5856]

I take it Lekkit is not following through with Archetype's plan lol.

Actually, something I noticed is that we've only found one VT so far out of 7 people. I have to think the ratio of VT's to players is better than 1:7. (Counting living players it's somewhat different but I not taking everyone's claims up front yet.) So, my theory is that most of the VT's are still left; massclaiming would weed out the PR's. It would be best to leave them hidden imo, at least for now.

(This coming from the person who was all for massclaiming on D1 >_< )

[Cuzz]

Still catching up, but can someone fill me in on who has claimed what so far? I may have caught scum.

[Axxle]

Thank you Grujah.

I still want others to weigh in, but I would like Arche to claim at this time.

Lekkit, I do not think Arche is Mafia.

Isn't he confirmed Wand? Of course he isn't mafia...

[Axxle]

Thank you Grujah.

I still want others to weigh in, but I would like Arche to claim at this time.

Lekkit, I do not think Arche is Mafia.

Isn't he confirmed Wand? Of course he isn't mafia...

Sorry, got arche and ashe confused.  Also still slightly drunk.

[Cuzz]

Galz, in response to your question, Axxle is more likely to be Ace of Wands.

[sparky5856]

Still catching up, but can someone fill me in on who has claimed what so far? I may have caught scum.

We know Galz is One-Shot Strongman Vig. Ash claimed Seven of Wands, Seer, and to have investigated jo and Archetype, neither being WW. Axxle claimed Two of Wands, VT. Archetype wanted Lekkit to claim next, he responds by voting Archetype. I don't think anyone else has claimed.

Claiming VT is the smart move if Axxle is the Ace of Wands. A VT won't be a very likely NK target, plus it's the simple route.

I will chime in that Archetype is doing a lot to control the town, and I'm getting wary of that. I remember a cop direction at the end of D2 by him. I got yelled at for something similar in... I think it was Waffle Mafia.

Because I believe there are many VT's still left and fewer PR's, I don't think any more claiming would be beneficial right now, especially with potentially 3 night-killers still around.

[Axxle]

Who tried to save eevee? they might be the final WW(s).

[Cuzz]

Who tried to save eevee? they might be the final WW(s).

It looked like Arch did. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, and I hadn't read all of D2 until after seeing Eevee's flip so that clouds my judgment, but I'm suspicious of anyone who didn't treat Eevee as obvscum at that point.

I think a massclaim would be really beneficial at this point, but I have to ponder about it some more. Galz what do you think?

[Galzria]

So, my belief us that Ashersky is the Ace of Wands, and it's quotes like the below that lead me to that conclusion:

That would be Galz right? He's proven that he's the Strongman Vig, so he's named townie at this point.

Well, unless Eevee is lying and is a regular mafia/werewolf card holder, and Galzria is also lying and is actually an MA with strongman abilities.

This idea that Eevee would somehow be lying (even though he was proven BP), and not MA but instead a regular WW/Mafia (and not even SK as CLAIMED) makes absolutely NO sense.....

..... Unless Ashersky was responsible for killing Voltgloss, and thus KNEW (without being able to claim as such) that Eevee couldn't have done so. This leads to all sorts of theories (like the above) trying to justify what Eevee might be, and what that means about me. And if you go back and read, Ashersky was not at all shy on hedging about how Eevee could still be any number of things.

So new assignment is for everybody to go back and reread Ashersky with this thought in mind. The moment Eevee claimed to have killed Voltgloss, SK!Ashersky knew something was amiss.

Tell me your thoughts.

Then consider that if true, his "investigation" results are just completely made up - who's going to counter him? Even if he "clears" a WW, it's not like they're going to counter-claim.

After you've done that, reread Archetype from a WW partner to Eevee perspective, and give me your thoughts on that as well.

--If you have investigative results that pin a player as scum, feel free to release them at this time. Otherwise, NO claiming.-

[Cuzz]

I can pin one player as scum right now.

If we massclaim, I believe there is a good chance that I will be able to pin one or more other players as scum.

If I explain further the plan will not work. Think about whether or not you think it's worth it to try.

[Grujah]

I have a theory that I wanna present either a) after massclaim or b) right now, if there'll be no massclaim.

@Galz - I came to Ash for different reasons (as he wasn't as pushy for Eevee as one should be) - but I think what you say do make sense.

[Galzria]

After everybody weighs in on Ashersky, we will do a massclaim. I hate doing so, as I agree we should have more VT than PR's, but too many people want it to be completely scum driven, so I have to accept there's probably something worth hearing.

There are 9 people left alive.

1. Galzria - Strongman Vig
2. Ashersky - Seer
3. Axxle - VT
--- The following should be claim order, AFTER people have weighed in on Ashersky---
4. Archetype
5. Shraeye
6. Grujah
7. Lekkit
8. Sparky
9. Cuzz

[Galzria]

Also, we started with 16, and we've seen 3 scum, 4 town. We KNOW that there's 2 more scum left. There may be 3 still.

So right now we're looking at either 2/9, or 3/9 scum.

[Archetype]

I've thought about it some more, and I reconsidered some things.

So no, I don't KNOW Axxle is scum anymore. I'm fairly certain though. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of ashersky being scum. 1 of the 2 is most likely scum.

Yeah, I guess I'm not as much as an IC as I thought I was. But that's fine, I don't mind that much.

[ashersky]

So, my belief us that Ashersky is the Ace of Wands, and it's quotes like the below that lead me to that conclusion:

That would be Galz right? He's proven that he's the Strongman Vig, so he's named townie at this point.

Well, unless Eevee is lying and is a regular mafia/werewolf card holder, and Galzria is also lying and is actually an MA with strongman abilities.

This idea that Eevee would somehow be lying (even though he was proven BP), and not MA but instead a regular WW/Mafia (and not even SK as CLAIMED) makes absolutely NO sense.....

..... Unless Ashersky was responsible for killing Voltgloss, and thus KNEW (without being able to claim as such) that Eevee couldn't have done so. This leads to all sorts of theories (like the above) trying to justify what Eevee might be, and what that means about me. And if you go back and read, Ashersky was not at all shy on hedging about how Eevee could still be any number of things.

So new assignment is for everybody to go back and reread Ashersky with this thought in mind. The moment Eevee claimed to have killed Voltgloss, SK!Ashersky knew something was amiss.

Tell me your thoughts.

Then consider that if true, his "investigation" results are just completely made up - who's going to counter him? Even if he "clears" a WW, it's not like they're going to counter-claim.

After you've done that, reread Archetype from a WW partner to Eevee perspective, and give me your thoughts on that as well.

--If you have investigative results that pin a player as scum, feel free to release them at this time. Otherwise, NO claiming.-

If you think my consistent stance of caution and taking time with our MA claims yesterday somehow makes me an SK, then I don't even know how to respond.  Why do people make assumptions that other people will come to a specific conclusion based on assumed information?  Shall I call you Voltgloss?  You know I was always suspicious of you, and that is every game.  You are one of the masters of these fake claim crazy gambits, so I wasn't taking you on as the leader 100% yet.  I don't think we have much choice now, and with a full claim, everyone can chime in.

Further to your argument, think about the other piece of information I had yesterday.  My role.  If we hadn't lynched Eevee, I would have investigated him.  Because if he was lying, I thought the chances he was lying about a lot of things were high, and I could catch him for town.  Instead, we got the lynch and flip, so I investigated the person who seemed most willing to save him, Arch.

As for Axxle as SK, it's definitely possible, but I don't know for sure.  He's definitely the only candidate for Ace of Wands, though.  It's also possible that every other person who hasn't claimed in the other Ace SK.

I think Arch needs to claim, given his statements, and now clear backtrack on Axxle.