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[cayvie]

Welcome to Mafia XVIII: Major Arcana Mafia II

This game is the sequel to Mafia IX: Major Arcana Mafia

If you would like a link to the spectator discussion QuickTopic, please send me a PM.  Thanks.

Day 3!
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

1. Eevee, The Moon, Werewolf Moon, lynched day 2
2. yuma, Eight of Wands, Ninja Doctor, pulped night 2
3. Archetype
4. sparky5856
5. Robz888, Five of Wands, One-Shot Dayvig, lynched day 1
6. Lekkit
7. shraeye
8. Ashersky
9. Grujah
10. Voltgloss, Queen of Pentacles, Mafia Roleblocker, throat slit night 1
11. Insomniac, The Magician, Town Wizard Extraordinaire, strangled night 1
12. Cuzz
13. jotheonah, Three of Cups, Vanilla Townie, machine gunned night 1
14. jimmmmm, Knight of Cups, Vanilla Mafia ripped to shreds night 1
15. Galzria
16. Axxle

Dsell is your backup/weekend mod. (I am V/LA on weekends).

Ends of Days
Day 1
Day 2

Mafia Ruleset

Game Rules:

General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.  Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to me by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start).  If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions.  In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax!  Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - half the total number of players (round up) must vote No Lynch to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. This game will generally have 2 week deadlines.  If a player or No Lynch does not have a simple majority at deadline, no lynch will occur, and the game will go into night.
8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
9. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 72 hours of no activity or upon request after 48 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Helpful Links:

• Main Wiki Page
  
  
• Newbie Guide
  
  
• Frequently Asked Questions
  
  
• Commonly Used Abbreviations
  
  
• Mafia Theory

TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.  IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.

[cayvie]

This particular game setup consists of 2 Major Arcana and 14 Minor Arcana (number/face cards).

The Deck

Cups
Ace - Lover
Two - Vanilla Townie
Three - Vanilla Townie
Four - Mason
Five - Vengeful Lover
Six - Vanilla Townie
Seven - Cop
Eight - Roleblocker
Nine - Innocent Child
Ten - Lover
Page - Mafia Goon
Knight - Mafia Goon
Queen - Mafia One-Shot Redirector
King - Mafia Watcher

Pentacles
Ace - Mafia-Immune Serial Killer
Two - Vanilla Townie
Three - Vanilla Townie
Four - Mason
Five - One-Shot Strongman Vigilante
Six - Vanilla Townie
Seven - Cop
Eight - Backup
Nine - Jack of all Trades
Ten - Spy
Page - Mafia Goon
Knight - Mafia Goon
Queen - Mafia Roleblocker
King - Mafia Godfather

Wands
Ace - Werewolf-Immune Serial Killer
Two - Vanilla Townie
Three - Vanilla Townie
Four - Mason
Five - One-Shot Day Vigilante
Six - Vanilla Townie
Seven - Seer
Eight - Ninja Doctor
Nine - Bulletproof Townie
Ten - Doctor
Page - Werewolf
Knight - Werewolf
Queen - Werewolf Rolecop
King - Alpha Werewolf

Swords
Ace - Secret Mason
Two - Vanilla Townie
Three - Vanilla Townie
Four - Mason
Five - Hider
Six - Vanilla Townie
Seven - Seer
Eight - Jailkeeper
Nine - FBI Agent
Ten - Vigilante
Page - Werewolf
Knight - Werewolf
Queen - Ninja Werewolf
King - Werewolf One-Shot Dayvig

Major Arcana

0: The Fool
I: The Magician
II: The High Priestess
III: The Empress
IV: The Emperor
V: The Hierophant
VI: The Lovers
VII: The Chariot
VIII: Strength
IX: The Hermit
X: The Wheel of Fortune
XI: Justice
XII: The Hanged Man
XIII: Death
XIV: Temperance
XV: The Devil
XVI: The Tower
XVII: The Star
XVIII: The Moon
XIX: The Sun
XX: Judgment
XXI: The World

[cayvie]

thread closed

[shraeye]

tag

[cayvie]

werewolves, mafia, people dying, mysterious magicks, flavor flavor etc

killing each other solves all problems

Day 1 Start!

Thread Unlocked

With 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch.

[jotheonah]

Awesome flavor. Killing each other solves all problems. Amen.

Vote: Galzria

old reliable.

[Robz888]

Immediate massclaim! Immediate massclaim! Seriously, let's try it.

[ashersky]

Vote: Robz888

You go first.

[Voltgloss]

Immediate massclaim! Immediate massclaim! Seriously, let's try it.

Given cayvie's comment at the end of Major Arcana Mafia I...

Also:

Hey everybody, notice the massclaim discouragement I put in this game! There's probably going to be more of that in future games I run!

...I kinda think an immediate massclaim is not advised.

[Robz888]

Vote: Robz888

You go first.

You don't know how hard it is for me to resist doing so.

[yuma]

here so replies will show up in my e-mail and in my unread topics...

but for now I am off to try Dark Ages IRL for the first time.

[ashersky]

Vote: Robz888

You go first.

You don't know how hard it is for me to resist doing so.

ObvsPR.

[Insomniac]

Hey guys. Nothing like a little Boxing Day mafia

[Robz888]

Vote: Robz888

You go first.

You don't know how hard it is for me to resist doing so.

ObvsPR.

Spoken like a true obvscum.

[jotheonah]

Robz, Robz, Robz. You make it so hard not to attack you and then you make me feel bad when I attack you.

[ashersky]

Vote: Robz888

You go first.

You don't know how hard it is for me to resist doing so.

ObvsPR.

Spoken like a true obvscumtownthatalwaysreadslikescumnomatterwhathesaysordoes.

Fixed that for you.

vote: jo for feeling bad for Robz.

[Lekkit]

Vote: Eevee for being on top of the list. Gotta start somewhere.

[Galzria]

#17 posts in thread.

16 people playing.

Average number of posts per person: Greater than 1.

Number of posts by Galzria? 0 (1 after this).

Vote: Galzria

LaLL

[sparky5856]

Fastest "game start" to "Robz snaps" time ever.

In a different way, of course.

In all seriousness though, I want to hear what Robz has to say. You're thinking of a full suit and number claim from everyone right Robz? I could see some benefits to that actually, but... it's a massclaim we're talking about X_X

[Axxle]

Because we don't know what the major arcana are, I do not want to massclaim.  Remember how much that would have overpowered death?  Not sure if the same mechanic will be used here.

[Axxle]

Bit busy today but just wanted to add that for now.

[Eevee]

Fastest "game start" to "Robz snaps" time ever.

In a different way, of course.

In all seriousness though, I want to hear what Robz has to say. You're thinking of a full suit and number claim from everyone right Robz? I could see some benefits to that actually, but... it's a massclaim we're talking about X_X

Vote: sparky

Idk, obv not much but better than my usual rvs votes. This post felt forced to me. OBVIOUSLY robz was joking and sparky is too smart to not realize that.

Note: I've made a point of trying to stick my vote somewhere during RVS. This time it was easy because no one else justified their voting in a scummy way (to me). That being said, I do realize I've probably never had a town read on sparky so this might be just me being biased. I'm starting to think I subconsciously look for reasons to have a town read on Robz, Galzria and the likes and always suspect the sparkys, asherskys, archetypes and jimms of the world. Probably because I find myself agreeing with Galzria and Robz so much and am always left confused with posts from the "scum read" group I seem to have developed.

[ashersky]

Can I ask a theory/setup question?

I've never played a game with multiple bad guy factions before.  Looking at the card list, there's some listed "werewolf" which sounds cool, but is otherwise just a second mafia?  Also, if there are multiple factions, are they smaller than usual?

[yuma]

#17 posts in thread.

16 people playing.

Average number of posts per person: Greater than 1.

Number of posts by Galzria? 0 (1 after this).

Vote: Galzria

LaLL

vote: Galzria for self voting.

(PS: this is a serious vote and I will stick with it until given a very good reason to unvote or change my vote. RVS or not, DON'T SELF VOTE)

[yuma]

Can I ask a theory/setup question?

I've never played a game with multiple bad guy factions before.  Looking at the card list, there's some listed "werewolf" which sounds cool, but is otherwise just a second mafia?  Also, if there are multiple factions, are they smaller than usual?

last game there were 3 mafia, 2 WW andn 1 SK... all different factions who didn't know each other. I believe there are just as many cards for WW as there are mafia, so they have equal odds of being a certain size.

[Eevee]

Can I ask a theory/setup question?

I've never played a game with multiple bad guy factions before.  Looking at the card list, there's some listed "werewolf" which sounds cool, but is otherwise just a second mafia?  Also, if there are multiple factions, are they smaller than usual?

last game there were 3 mafia, 2 WW andn 1 SK... all different factions who didn't know each other. I believe there are just as many cards for WW as there are mafia, so they have equal odds of being a certain size.

Iirc cayvie said he'd balance it if it came out something ridiculous. So I'm expecting factions of close to equal strength (also not bastard mafia, so that is to be expected).

Dont think voting for Galzria is warranted really. RVS and obvskidding, I'd even wager he'd make a controversial joke like that more often as town.

[sparky5856]

Fastest "game start" to "Robz snaps" time ever.

In a different way, of course.

In all seriousness though, I want to hear what Robz has to say. You're thinking of a full suit and number claim from everyone right Robz? I could see some benefits to that actually, but... it's a massclaim we're talking about X_X

Vote: sparky

Idk, obv not much but better than my usual rvs votes. This post felt forced to me. OBVIOUSLY robz was joking and sparky is too smart to not realize that.

Note: I've made a point of trying to stick my vote somewhere during RVS. This time it was easy because no one else justified their voting in a scummy way (to me). That being said, I do realize I've probably never had a town read on sparky so this might be just me being biased. I'm starting to think I subconsciously look for reasons to have a town read on Robz, Galzria and the likes and always suspect the sparkys, asherskys, archetypes and jimms of the world. Probably because I find myself agreeing with Galzria and Robz so much and am always left confused with posts from the "scum read" group I seem to have developed.

Obviously Robz was joking when Voltgloss and Axxle also responded in a serious way.

Also I think I've only been town like... once, so far out of like six games? So that may explain why you always have a scum read on me xD

[sparky5856]

Oh and for the record, I never seem to have a scum read on Eevee, cause whenever I see him he's always town xD

[Galzria]

You're correct Eevee. However I WOULD have no difficulty seeing Scum!Yuma jumping onto an obvious joke to try and make a real case out of it, which is exactly what "this is aserious vote and Iwill stick with it until given a very good reason to unvote or change my vote" is attempting to do. Vote: Yuma

Oh, and this is aserious vote and Iwill stick with it until given a very good reason to unvote or change my vote.

[sparky5856]

I'm inclined to think scum-Yuma would be more invisible than that. Or maybe it's WIFOM >_<

[jotheonah]

Vote: sparky

Eevee's got good reads.

[Axxle]

Eevee has very good gut, but currently I think this Galzria/yuma argument might be the best thing to look into.

I think Galz is town for putting himself out there like he did.  But I think scum yuma might sit back and let someone else make that first "selfvote!" vote.  In conclusion I think it might be town v. town.  My biggest question is why joth didn't think it worth mentioning in the post right above mine?

@joth: what do you think of Galz v. yuma?

Vote: sparky for Eevee.

[Axxle]

Unvote: Sparky

What am I doing voting with joth...

[jotheonah]

Galz vs yuma:

Galz was doing goofy RVS. Null tell.

yuma got really indignant. slight scum tell.

Verdict: Probably town v town, but possible yuma is scum.

What's wrong with voting with me? Voting with me is pro-town.

[yuma]

vote back on me is understandable. And I realized it was a joke. But it is the principle. I am highly likely (there may be unforeseen situations where voting for someone is just a plain bad move) to vote for people that vote for themselves. I am aware that town players often self vote, and in the past lynches on people that have selfvoted are often town. But again, self voting is anti-town. It always is. So don't do it. Ever. There is always a better way to express whatever frustration you are experiencing than self voting. If you don't believe me, see me in Day 2 in MV where I was more frustrated than I have ever been in a mafia game, didn't self vote, and wasn't lynched.

so morale of the story, don't self vote. Galz did, I know it was a joke, but I voted so people know I am very serious about this.

Call me indignant, I don't care, as long as town wins the game. And I think self voting doesn't help town win the game.

[Axxle]

Galz vs yuma:

Galz was doing goofy RVS. Null tell.

yuma got really indignant. slight scum tell.

Verdict: Probably town v town, but possible yuma is scum.

What's wrong with voting with me? Voting with me is pro-town.

I meant voting with you before I got your answer.  Seems good to me.

vote back on me is understandable. And I realized it was a joke. But it is the principle. I am highly likely (there may be unforeseen situations where voting for someone is just a plain bad move) to vote for people that vote for themselves. I am aware that town players often self vote, and in the past lynches on people that have selfvoted are often town. But again, self voting is anti-town. It always is. So don't do it. Ever. There is always a better way to express whatever frustration you are experiencing than self voting. If you don't believe me, see me in Day 2 in MV where I was more frustrated than I have ever been in a mafia game, didn't self vote, and wasn't lynched.

so morale of the story, don't self vote. Galz did, I know it was a joke, but I voted so people know I am very serious about this.

Call me indignant, I don't care, as long as town wins the game. And I think self voting doesn't help town win the game.

This is a yuma I don't think I've seen before.  I'll have to go back and check, but I don't think you've ever been this adamant about meta arguments like "XYZ is always bad".

[yuma]

I haven't. I have had discussions in different venues about self voting, especially in MXV--where I hammered SK-Galz for self voting...

This was especially after being scum in MXIV and seeing how badly self voting hurt town--and basically allowed scum to cruise to victory because of it.

But seriously, does anyone dispute this? Is self voting ever beneficial to town? Again I am not arguing that self voting is more or less likely to be mafia. I am asking is it more or less likely to be helpful to town. And if it isn't, town should never do it. So the only people that would self vote would be mafia. Therefore vote those who self vote.

[Robz888]

vote back on me is understandable. And I realized it was a joke. But it is the principle. I am highly likely (there may be unforeseen situations where voting for someone is just a plain bad move) to vote for people that vote for themselves. I am aware that town players often self vote, and in the past lynches on people that have selfvoted are often town. But again, self voting is anti-town. It always is. So don't do it. Ever. There is always a better way to express whatever frustration you are experiencing than self voting. If you don't believe me, see me in Day 2 in MV where I was more frustrated than I have ever been in a mafia game, didn't self vote, and wasn't lynched.

so morale of the story, don't self vote. Galz did, I know it was a joke, but I voted so people know I am very serious about this.

Call me indignant, I don't care, as long as town wins the game. And I think self voting doesn't help town win the game.

But... I don't know. Something about this "I won't ever abide self-votes" rings hollow to me. If Galzria votes himself for joke reasons, is it really so much worse than voting for someone else for joke reasons, which is exactly what RVS is?

Obviously a serious self-vote makes no sense. And a self-vote at a critical juncture--like when you have a wagon building against you--can spell frustration, or maybe it's tactic, but in any case, it can be good grounds to vote for that person.

Here, I'm not so sure.

[Robz888]

Although, you voting for SK Galz because of his self-vote in M-XV helps explain your staunch position, and eases my concern about you here.

[ashersky]

I haven't. I have had discussions in different venues about self voting, especially in MXV--where I hammered SK-Galz for self voting...

This was especially after being scum in MXIV and seeing how badly self voting hurt town--and basically allowed scum to cruise to victory because of it.

But seriously, does anyone dispute this? Is self voting ever beneficial to town? Again I am not arguing that self voting is more or less likely to be mafia. I am asking is it more or less likely to be helpful to town. And if it isn't, town should never do it. So the only people that would self vote would be mafia. Therefore vote those who self vote.

I think I lead the field in self-votes...and they are anti-town.  Look at Cayvie self-hammering in DoMafia.  That said, man sometimes you just really get fed up with being suspected for "no reason" as town and just toss out the self-vote.  That was me, obviously.  Maybe not others.

All that said, RVS self-vote jokes are fine.  Really.  No issues there.

Also, unvote since I think we're leaving RVS territory now or soon and the time zone thing will creep up on me soon.

[Lekkit]

and the time zone thing will creep up on me soon.

I want to say this once more here. I'm at GMT+1, so I'll mostly be online during your (assuming you are in America) nights and forenoons. I cannot guarantee that I will be online during your afternoons and evenings.

[Lekkit]

Also, getting a mixed vibe from yuma. Calling out something like a self-vote with a serious vote sounds really bold for scum. Especially when it's 1 page into the game. To me that reads as a townie trying to make a point rather than voting to hit scum. However he get's really defensive when people notices that he votes for someone he doesn't find scummy, but rather anti-town. With the possibility of 3 (?) scum factions, I think scumhunting should be much more prioritized than lynching people over a self-vote.

I'll go see what I can find on yuma's earlier self-vote hate.

[Eevee]

If someone is coming out scummy to me from the Galzria-yuma minifight, it's definitely yuma. Robz says it pretty well, selfvoting in a situation where the vote cant lead to a lynch is just whatever and all in good fun. Whoever said yuma's strong stance against selfvoting feels forced, that was my first instinct too. However, why would scumyuma invent a strong opinion like this - just to justify sticking his vote on galzria? doesn't seem worth it, I probably shouldnt coach yuma in how to play scum but this reminds me of the switch game where he got a lot of heat for hammering the serial killer and almost got (mis)lynched. Inviyuma is scum, suspected Yuma is town until proven otherwise?

So, I conclude I don't find anything scummy in the galz-Yuma interaction. Looking back to sparkys reaction to my vote and the surprising traction it got from joth and axxle, I think it's interesting  he chose to go for the classic Robz defense "I can see why you'd think that, and usually it would be right..". Now, I admit it's hard to respond to a case that essentially reads "your post felt insincere", but sparky didnt even try. That being said, I'm surprised joth and axxle saw my post worth sheeping. Not behaviour I'd expect from either, but as I've said I really like early wagons to get the game rolling, so I guess I should just be humbled someone thinks I'm worth sheeping. Might be the first time! Isn't it all but confirmed we have multiple scum teams? That pretty much changes the whole scumhunting routine around for me, wagon analysis gets less useful until its very late and trying to find people who aren't scumhunting isn't a way to find scum anymore. I actually have an idea for a way in a setup like this, but I'd rather observe a bit before telling it because its really easy for scum just not do it after I say what it is.

I'm starting to understand how galz writes his wall of texts from mobile, this isn't that bad.

[ashersky]

I can vouch for yuma's intense stance against self-voting for previous interactions,if that helps anyone with their reads.

As it is, I wouldn't vote either Galz or Yuma for either of their parts in the discussion.

[cayvie]

Vote Count 1.1

Galzria (1): yuma
Eevee (1): Lekkit
sparky5856 (2): Eevee, jotheonah
yuma (1): Galzria

Not Voting (11): Archetype, sparky5856, Robz888, shraeye, ashersky, Grujah, Voltgloss, Insomniac, Cuzz, jimmmmm, Axxle

With 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch.

[Lekkit]

I skimmed through the first 35 pages of MXV, and while I don't agree with yuma, he was pretty adamant about the lynching self voters policy. I do think there's a huge difference between a self vote halfway through a wagon and as one of the first posts of the day.

Unvote, as we're getting out of RVS.

[ashersky]

vote: Voltgloss

I will unvote when he posts.  I urge others to vote for others ho have not posted (I.e. Shraeye).

[Eevee]

vote: Voltgloss

I will unvote when he posts.  I urge others to vote for others ho have not posted (I.e. Shraeye).

That doesn't really do anything if they just haven't found the thread yet.

[ashersky]

vote: Voltgloss

I will unvote when he posts.  I urge others to vote for others ho have not posted (I.e. Shraeye).

That doesn't really do anything if they just haven't found the thread yet.

It's worked in the past.

[Eevee]

vote: Voltgloss

I will unvote when he posts.  I urge others to vote for others ho have not posted (I.e. Shraeye).

That doesn't really do anything if they just haven't found the thread yet.

It's worked in the past.

I doubt the fact they eventually find the thread has much to do with you voting for them or not. It's christmas time, not like anyone is inexcusably lurking!

.. but that's still better than not voting at all, who am I to judge. 

[ashersky]

vote: Voltgloss

I will unvote when he posts.  I urge others to vote for others ho have not posted (I.e. Shraeye).

That doesn't really do anything if they just haven't found the thread yet.

It's worked in the past.

I doubt the fact they eventually find the thread has much to do with you voting for them or not. It's christmas time, not like anyone is inexcusably lurking!

.. but that's still better than not voting at all, who am I to judge. 

Fair enough point.  Good reasoning for keeping games in one thread.

[Axxle]

@mod: can you pm players letting them know the game started?

I'll respond to eevee's megapost when I'm not on phone or not rushing.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm back from being away, hope you all had a great Christmas.

So, the issue of today is self-voting. Specifically RVS self-voting. Love me a bit of RVS-time theory to get the game rolling. Having said that, this issue seems a bit meh. I think Galz' post was just a fairly regular first post of the game. I mean, who hasn't thought about accusing themselves of lurking in their first post? Or is it just me? I also find it quite plausible that yuma's reaction was from a Townie primarily making a point, especially if he's made that point before.

Vote: Eevee for finding me scummy.

FoS: Jimmmmm for lurking.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of having multiple scum factions. In fact, I'm planning on running a game with both Mafia and Werewolves. I'm still not sure, though, about how they interact. I think the general consensus is that they hurt each others' chances and therefore generally try to kill each other. I guess in some ways this is a self-fulfilling state-of-mind. If you're in the Mafia and you think the Werewolves are trying to kill you, then you're going to try to kill them too. But of course, it also makes it harder for us, too. As Eevee pointed out, this means everyone's going to be scumhunting. Although maybe that's not that different from normal because in theory everyone's pretending to scumhunt and we can still look at interactions between players and things like that.

So I'm just wondering if we'll be able to deduce anything from nightkills? Will they generally be aimed at scum? Of course, if we assume that then it introduces WIFOM aplenty.

[Voltgloss]

vote: Voltgloss

I will unvote when he posts.  I urge others to vote for others ho have not posted (I.e. Shraeye).

I have posted since the game started. 

Immediate massclaim! Immediate massclaim! Seriously, let's try it.

Given cayvie's comment at the end of Major Arcana Mafia I...

Also:

Hey everybody, notice the massclaim discouragement I put in this game! There's probably going to be more of that in future games I run!

...I kinda think an immediate massclaim is not advised.

[Voltgloss]

I get nullreads from both Galz and yuma so far.  Galz was clearly making a joke.  yuma used it to make a point that all self-votes are anti-town, EVEN the most "innocuous" of self-votes (an RVS joke).  This is in line with yuma's stance in M-XV, as ash has already pointed out.  Frankly, I am more suspicious of the people who have found yuma suspicious for this.

I'd like sparky to explain what benefits he sees from massclaim.  His first post alluded vaguely to such benefits.  As I've and others have said, massclaim has a real danger here of empowering anti-town roles a la Death in the first Arcana game.  sparky was IN that game, he should have remembered that.  So I'd like to hear from sparky what he was/is thinking.

[Grujah]

Hi, sober and reporting in!

To continue with the controversy subjects, out of these, Jimmmmm's slef-FoS seems staged, his post to me looks like he is saying "hey, it's cool, it's towny, look, even I'm towny, I am FoSing myself!" . Also RVS's Eevee - why?


I'd also like to skip 2 faction theory-crafting, as it's been done to death and It's helishly boring.

@Volt - I'd like to hear that from sparks as well.

[Jimmmmm]

To continue with the controversy subjects, out of these, Jimmmmm's slef-FoS seems staged, his post to me looks like he is saying "hey, it's cool, it's towny, look, even I'm towny, I am FoSing myself!" . Also RVS's Eevee - why?

Oh I see what you mean. I wasn't meaning to say that accusing yourself of lurking in your first post was Towny. I was saying there was nothing suspicious about it, but I certainly don't think it's anything but a null-tell.

Also, I random voted Eevee because, um, random voting. Also OMGUS he thinks I'm scummy. Also, I usually suspect and/or vote for Eevee early in the game.

[Jimmmmm]

I'd also like to skip 2 faction theory-crafting, as it's been done to death and It's helishly boring.

Well okay then. Why don't you lead us in the conversation then?

[Grujah]

why RVS vote when everybody are reverting their RVS votes in attempt to get out of RVS?

[Jimmmmm]

Right okay, fair enough.

Unvote.

Next item of discussion?

[Grujah]

Noble gesture and the right thing to do, but you didn't actually answer the question. 

[Jimmmmm]

I voted for Eevee because I felt like it. I certainly wasn't pushing for an Eevee lynch, and was expecting to unvote fairly soon. I think the main reason was probably just to acknowledge his saying "I... always suspect the sparkys, asherskys, archetypes and jimms of the world". Maybe I should have honoured the two people who unvoted due to moving RVS, but this was my first post of the game and I wanted to so I did. That's it. Why are you reading so much into it?

[Galzria]

Interesting stuff.

Reads!

Me>>>>Jim>>Everybody>Yuma

Hmm, I should work on refining that.

Right, off to do non-forum stuff (WHAT? I know, right?)

[Grujah]

Why are you reading so much into it?

Dunno. After you unvoted I felt like it would be fun grinding you.

[Robz888]

Hi, sober and reporting in!

To continue with the controversy subjects, out of these, Jimmmmm's slef-FoS seems staged, his post to me looks like he is saying "hey, it's cool, it's towny, look, even I'm towny, I am FoSing myself!" . Also RVS's Eevee - why?


I'd also like to skip 2 faction theory-crafting, as it's been done to death and It's helishly boring.

@Volt - I'd like to hear that from sparks as well.

Hey Grujah, are you crazy Grujah or useful Grujah in this game?

[Insomniac]

I have no real reads yet, Galz was obviously just kidding around in RVS and yuma was just reminding everyone how much he hates self votes, both of these things are part of their metas and both of these players know this so it's really a null tell IMO.

[Grujah]

Hi, sober and reporting in!

To continue with the controversy subjects, out of these, Jimmmmm's slef-FoS seems staged, his post to me looks like he is saying "hey, it's cool, it's towny, look, even I'm towny, I am FoSing myself!" . Also RVS's Eevee - why?


I'd also like to skip 2 faction theory-crafting, as it's been done to death and It's helishly boring.

@Volt - I'd like to hear that from sparks as well.

Hey Grujah, are you crazy Grujah or useful Grujah in this game?

Dunno if two are separable. I am the awesome Grujah - one that is both. One that uses One Shot Vig N1 and hits Major Arcana Rol ethat gives him powers, one that is claims Masons with Morgrim D1 and survives till end. Also one that drunk-fake-claims Doctor with low possibility of it actually being possible, and fool everybody!

[Insomniac]

Claim I ALREADY have an investigative result

I will not reveal the full result YET. Galz/Eevee/Robz, my result is on ONE of you, please respond how you feel necessary given the result.

[Grujah]

Who's still missing?

shraeye
Archtype
Cuzz

anyone else?

@Ins - oh my.

[Cuzz]

Hey all.

Guess I'll weigh in on Galz/yuma thing. Galz was so clearly joking that I can't even see how responding to him was worth it, other than just feeling the need to say something seemingly pro-town. Strike against yuma. However, yuma's "I find all self-votes scummy and will vote for anyone who does so" thing is not new, and is consistent with his attitude in other games. Null tell here. I actually used to agree with him and told myself long ago I would never self-vote, but in my experience I now actually have examples where self-voting would have been very pro-town. If I had self-hammered in XI town would have won easily much sooner. This is all mostly irrelevant to the current discussion, but this is f.DS and someone needs to point out the edge cases whenever anyone makes an absolute general statement.

[Cuzz]

Also, I didn't play the first game so is there anything specific we learned there that I should know?

[Grujah]

Hey all.

Guess I'll weigh in on Galz/yuma thing. Galz was so clearly joking that I can't even see how responding to him was worth it, other than just feeling the need to say something seemingly pro-town. Strike against yuma. However, yuma's "I find all self-votes scummy and will vote for anyone who does so" thing is not new, and is consistent with his attitude in other games. Null tell here. I actually used to agree with him and told myself long ago I would never self-vote, but in my experience I now actually have examples where self-voting would have been very pro-town. If I had self-hammered in XI town would have won easily much sooner. This is all mostly irrelevant to the current discussion, but this is f.DS and someone needs to point out the edge cases whenever anyone makes an absolute general statement.

Got some beer at home.

Plz claim so I can copy it.

[Robz888]

Claim I ALREADY have an investigative result

I will not reveal the full result YET. Galz/Eevee/Robz, my result is on ONE of you, please respond how you feel necessary given the result.

? That's interesting. I don't see Day Cop on the powers list, though.

I would also investigate one of three of us if I were you, so that makes sense. I think you should share the result, of course. I don't have a specific reason to think Eevee or Galz are scum. I expect you investigated me, and already know me to be town, yes?

[Cuzz]

Hey all.

Guess I'll weigh in on Galz/yuma thing. Galz was so clearly joking that I can't even see how responding to him was worth it, other than just feeling the need to say something seemingly pro-town. Strike against yuma. However, yuma's "I find all self-votes scummy and will vote for anyone who does so" thing is not new, and is consistent with his attitude in other games. Null tell here. I actually used to agree with him and told myself long ago I would never self-vote, but in my experience I now actually have examples where self-voting would have been very pro-town. If I had self-hammered in XI town would have won easily much sooner. This is all mostly irrelevant to the current discussion, but this is f.DS and someone needs to point out the edge cases whenever anyone makes an absolute general statement.

Got some beer at home.

Plz claim so I can copy it.

Da?

[Insomniac]

Claim I ALREADY have an investigative result

I will not reveal the full result YET. Galz/Eevee/Robz, my result is on ONE of you, please respond how you feel necessary given the result.

? That's interesting. I don't see Day Cop on the powers list, though.

I would also investigate one of three of us if I were you, so that makes sense. I think you should share the result, of course. I don't have a specific reason to think Eevee or Galz are scum. I expect you investigated me, and already know me to be town, yes?

I would not have claimed if I got a town result.

[Insomniac]

A note to everyone, I will full claim once Galz and Eevee have ALSO replied to my claim

[Grujah]

I guess that you ain't the High Priestess, if you are, than this is a badclaim


@cayvie - can you please include link to Major Arcana I in opening post for reference?

[cayvie]

I guess that you ain't the High Priestess, if you are, than this is a badclaim


@cayvie - can you please include link to Major Arcana I in opening post for reference?

done

[Robz888]

Claim I ALREADY have an investigative result

I will not reveal the full result YET. Galz/Eevee/Robz, my result is on ONE of you, please respond how you feel necessary given the result.

? That's interesting. I don't see Day Cop on the powers list, though.

I would also investigate one of three of us if I were you, so that makes sense. I think you should share the result, of course. I don't have a specific reason to think Eevee or Galz are scum. I expect you investigated me, and already know me to be town, yes?

I would not have claimed if I got a town result.

Oh, interesting. I hope it's Eevee; Galzria will be furious if he loses again because you copped him like within five seconds. Honestly, neither of them said anything scummy-seeming to me. But with the information that one of them is scum, perhaps I can put this puzzle together. Hold on.

[Robz888]

Okay, Guess: Eevee for Insomniac's scum result.

[Lekkit]

Eevee, get in here. I'm curious of the results.

Ins, why those three?

[Eevee]

I'm going to guess you copped galz, I know I would have. what kind of a comment you want from me/us? I have no reads on either galz or robz, but I'll guess you found scum in galz just because he is he one I'd cop myself.

drunkposting from phone, can answer any questions if I missed something.

[Cuzz]

I'm going to guess you copped galz, I know I would have. what kind of a comment you want from me/us? I have no reads on either galz or robz, but I'll guess you found scum in galz just because he is he one I'd cop myself.

drunkposting from phone, can answer any questions if I missed something.

Second this:

Okay, Guess: Eevee for Insomniac's scum result.

[Lekkit]

If I was a day cop I would've investigated yuma or Galz. But I'm not sure I would've copped yet.

[Robz888]

Eevee, get in here. I'm curious of the results.

Ins, why those three?

I think it makes sense, especially for Insomniac's perspective. We are the three most veteran non-Insomniac players. It's very helpful to know whther Eevee and Galz are town, since they are such constructive townies. For me, it's just nice to know I'm not scum, probably

[Eevee]

a) I know I'm town
b) I don't think I'm that hard to read, ins wouldn't cop me

[Lekkit]

So the ones who weren't copped gets town status?

But I guess I can see why he would choose one of you to cop and include the two others as possible targets.

[Eevee]

I'm not sure I'm a very helpul townie..

[Insomniac]

I admit to having a hard time reading all three as the most veteran players and a town or scum result on them regardless will help me immensely in most games.

[Grujah]

big bet on eevee.

[Voltgloss]

So the ones who weren't copped gets town status?

Maybe I'm misreading, but I don't think Insom has said "I investigated all three of them and one of them is scum, with the other two town."  I think he is saying "I investigated one of those three, and the person I investigated is scum."

But I guess this will get clarified when Insom claims.

[Grujah]

So the ones who weren't copped gets town status?

Maybe I'm misreading, but I don't think Insom has said "I investigated all three of them and one of them is scum, with the other two town."  I think he is saying "I investigated one of those three, and the person I investigated is scum."

But I guess this will get clarified when Insom claims.

I think so too, Volt.

[Insomniac]

While we're waiting for Galz, I would also like the three of you to answer this question,

Is there ANYTHING you can think of that would make me think you scummy INCORRECTLY?

[Archetype]

Sorry I'm late.

Ok so it seems that Insomniac is one of those super crazy powers. That's good if he's town, but if we have no Doctor, this could be bad. But if he indeed did catch scum, maybe a super PR for 1 scum member isn't that bad...? Maybe.

Also, nice way of presenting your investigation, Insom. It's interesting to see their reactions.

[Robz888]

While we're waiting for Galz, I would also like the three of you to answer this question,

Is there ANYTHING you can think of that would make me think you scummy INCORRECTLY?

Nothing that I noticed Eevee, Galz, or myself do, no.

[Grujah]

Also, nice way of presenting your investigation, Insom.

Paranoid Grujah:

This stinks of scumbuddying.

[Archetype]

I'm always appreciative of others' work, regardless of mine of their alignment.

[Archetype]

2nd of = or

[Eevee]

np reason to expect invorrect results,  no.

[Insomniac]

@Robz, EEVEE has answered the question I wanted answered you have not.

[Robz888]

@Robz, EEVEE has answered the question I wanted answered you have not.

Oh. If you investigated me, you got the correct result, sure.

[Lekkit]

So the ones who weren't copped gets town status?

Maybe I'm misreading, but I don't think Insom has said "I investigated all three of them and one of them is scum, with the other two town."  I think he is saying "I investigated one of those three, and the person I investigated is scum."

But I guess this will get clarified when Insom claims.

Thats what I got as well. And its also the reason why Robz ccomment stood out to me. It may be me misunderstanding what he meant, though.

[Galzria]

Hey, look, interesting stuff.

Insomniac, if "I would not have announced with a town result" is true, and your not simply playing for better reads (ie. Town gambit to make people sweat),  then I'm not sure what you're waiting on me for. You certainly didn't investigate to anything other than a town result on me, so...?

As for why you would choose to investigate me/include my name in three - well, I've called out as being scum in both your last two scum games (I didn't get you lynched in the last though). Still, I imagine you'de love nothing more than to catch me as scum, and failing that, would be content knowing that I was town and scumhunting to my best.

As for any particular comment of mine, well, I've 3 posts in this thread to date. Take your pick.

[eHalcyon]

Tag to follow.  Will also take spec QT, cayvie.

[Robz888]

Okay, Insomniac. Whatcha got?

[Lekkit]

Offline... And in the night I will be here for the whole night due to a night shift.

[yuma]

I get nullreads from both Galz and yuma so far.  Galz was clearly making a joke.  yuma used it to make a point that all self-votes are anti-town, EVEN the most "innocuous" of self-votes (an RVS joke).  This is in line with yuma's stance in M-XV, as ash has already pointed out.  Frankly, I am more suspicious of the people who have found yuma suspicious for this.

my sentiments exactly. thanks volt

[yuma]

and I'll wait until we hear more from Insomniac before I comment any further on developments--although I did get the same reaction that Grujah did to archetype's "good job Insomniac" post... but not enough to make something big out of it... yet....

[shraeye]

About Gazlria and Yuma,
Yuma's vote was clearly done out of principle, at least that's how I rread it.  I don't like people who have suspected yuma on this stance because it sounded 'forced'.  Uin my experience with these stand-on-principle type arguments, they will always sound a bit forced, because someone is jsut trying to make a point that self-voting itself is what is bad, but Yuma isn't really commenting on Galzria's alingmemt despite his vote for Galz. I find it a bit interesting that Galzria is reacting somewhat nonchalantly to what I think is a poor reason to vote for someone.  This makes me a bit suspicious, but not heavlily enough for me to have a serious scumread on Galz.

I disagree with his argument that this sounds like a case that scumyuma might make a serious thing of.  It really irks me when people react to a case with bad reasons on them by saying "bad reasoning=scum, I bet he's scum!" Especially with day1 cases that are often weak.  I just think that Galz made a joke (nullread) and yuma reacted too strongly to point out a principled stance that he has (nullread). End of story.

About Eevee's case on sparky
It's a bad case, and I don't like that it seems to have picked up two sheep votes from joth and Axxle (although Axxle unvotes quickly).  I agree that sparky's post could be read as forced, but I'm not getting scum reads off such a bold claim that mass-claiming may have benefits, actually I'm picking up a townread from that.  I'm comfortable just letting this issue go.

What I don't like here is Eevee's reaction to people sheeping his cases, and his response to sparky's 'defense.'

Looking back to sparkys reaction to my vote and the surprising traction it got from joth and axxle, I think it's interesting  he chose to go for the classic Robz defense "I can see why you'd think that, and usually it would be right..". Now, I admit it's hard to respond to a case that essentially reads "your post felt insincere", but sparky didnt even try. That being said, I'm surprised joth and axxle saw my post worth sheeping. Not behaviour I'd expect from either, but as I've said I really like early wagons to get the game rolling, so I guess I should just be humbled someone thinks I'm worth sheeping. Might be the first time!

That is a really bad summary of the defense that sparky gives.  He simply said that he is often scum, so maybe that's why your gut is yelling scum.  I agree that there are certain people who sort of look for reads that they expect themselves to have, like a cross-game tunneling.  It's best to recognize it and combat it, tunnelling is definitely detrimental to picking up accurate reads, I've found.  I'm really suspicious of the way you got 'surprised' that your sparky case gained traction.  I think this is an interaction not really worth pursuing now, however.

Axxle
Axxle is somebody that I jumped to finding scummy quite quickly.  Here's a post that gave me that vibe

Eevee has very good gut, but currently I think this Galzria/yuma argument might be the best thing to look into.

I think Galz is town for putting himself out there like he did.  But I think scum yuma might sit back and let someone else make that first "selfvote!" vote.  In conclusion I think it might be town v. town.  My biggest question is why joth didn't think it worth mentioning in the post right above mine?

@joth: what do you think of Galz v. yuma?

Vote: sparky for Eevee.

First off, he suggests that people look into Galz/Yuma argument, but then suspects himself that it's town v. town.  Why try to draw everybody's attention to something that a few people already are getting scumreads on but then say both participants are town?  It seems like the more attention that is paid to this, the more people may become convinced that either Galz/yuma is scum.  I also don't understand at all what you mean by "Galz putting himself out there"; by making a joke, Galz put himself out there and came out towny?  That's a really weird choice of words, since between Galz/yuma, yuma is the one who put himself out there in a more bold way, making his vote-all-selfvoters stance.  This I think is the most suspicious response to the Galz/yuma fiasco yet.

So thus far, i have a few reads, though none of them are super strong yet, the game is only 24 hours old.

Grujah: I got a slight-medium towny vibe from the way that he was grilling jimmm, even if it was in jest.
Axxle: medium scum as stated above
Eevee: very slight scum
Galz: very slight scum for reacting so smoothly to absurdness.
jimmm: slight townread, also from the Grujah/jimm interaction
Lekkit: slight town, mostlyf rom his post about his mixed feelings on yuma.
Robz: slight scum for his reaction to yuma, finding yuma scummy for his 'hollow-feeling' stance on selfvoters
sparky: slight town as stated above

About Insomniac's claiming business, I have slight scumreads on all three, so really don't know who he might be talking about.  I wouldn't be surprised if any of those three were scum.

[Galzria]

ITT: Shraeye "Making cases are bad, all your cases are bad, and you're all bad".

Welcome to D1.

[shraeye]

ITT: Shraeye "Making cases are bad, all your cases are bad, and you're all bad".

Welcome to D1.

Yup, I love a good D1.  I liked the first Arcana game, where I had a fun time day 1 and got some reads right, but then got night-killed.  Hopefully only the first parts happen this time.

[Robz888]

Finger of Anger: Insomniac, for promising big and then disappearing.

[Insomniac]

Don't have full access but. I'm the wizard (major arcana) I'm claimin because out of Galz/robz/Eevee one of them has a qt. thus I am now claiming two are town and one is not. I don't have full access unfortunately so I can't fill claim but I'm major arcana there might be a doctor so mafia wifom etc.

Based on responses I think Galz is most likely scum but I need town help

I am the wizard

[Robz888]

I don't have a qt. Are there masons in the setup?

[Lekkit]

So you're basically saying that among Galz, Robz and Eevz, there is one QT? Do you know which one of them has one or are you just speculating?

[yuma]

I don't have a qt. Are there masons in the setup?

every four in the deck is a mason...

[yuma]

I don't have full access unfortunately so I can't fill claim but I'm major arcana there might be a doctor so mafia wifom etc.

You might also be Major Arcana from an opposing faction... and so could one of the other people you list as not having access to a QT. WFIOM again.

[Galzria]

Don't have full access but. I'm the wizard (major arcana) I'm claimin because out of Galz/robz/Eevee one of them has a qt. thus I am now claiming two are town and one is not. I don't have full access unfortunately so I can't fill claim but I'm major arcana there might be a doctor so mafia wifom etc.

Based on responses I think Galz is most likely scum but I need town help

I am the wizard

I am not. I am the 5 of Pentacles.

Since I'm being forced out by bad play anyway, we might as well get this out in the open and narrow down the field to two. Good job Insomniac.

[Robz888]

I don't have a qt. Are there masons in the setup?

every four in the deck is a mason...

Yeah, just checked. So... This isn't too informative, if this is all you got, Insomniac.

Okay everybody hold on. Maybe I shouldn't have said I don't have a qt. before eevee or galz out each other as as a mason, is the right thing for someone else, if they are in a mason group with eevee or galz, to say so?

[Robz888]

Oh too late. Well if we all say we don't have a qt, you know there is a liar.

[Robz888]

Woah galz. Was a full claim necessary? I don't think it was.

[yuma]

well I guess that is worthy of an unvote

[Robz888]

Okay we'll Eevee has to tell us if he is a Mason or scum. Interesting play by Insomniac, I'm not sure it was sound.

At least we're getting that mass claim I wanted off the ground!!!

[yuma]

Okay we'll Eevee has to tell us if he is a Mason or scum. Interesting play by Insomniac, I'm not sure it was sound.

At least we're getting that mass claim I wanted off the ground!!!

partial mass claim... I see no reason for me or nearly anyone else to claim...!

[Lekkit]

Yeah, FoS Robz for making a Fullclaim and a partial claim by a MA into a massclaim. Even with a fullclaim from Eevee, and I'm pretty sure he'll claim mason we haven't really gotten much. Or am I missing something?

[Jimmmmm]

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Having said that, I'm not actually convinced that it is. If the result of Insom's investigation is a Mason, then calling them out will end up forcing them to claim. Which might be what he wants, I'm not sure, but is it worth getting a Major PR killed N1? I don't know.

I suppose for now FoS: Eevee until he claims Mason/non-Mason and on all three if he claims non-Mason.

[yuma]

Yeah, FoS Robz for making a Fullclaim and a partial claim by a MA into a massclaim. Even with a fullclaim from Eevee, and I'm pretty sure he'll claim mason we haven't really gotten much. Or am I missing something?

this is an interesting point... well Lekkit doesn't really make it, but it makes me ask the question:

Can a mason be a mason by himself? If so what is the point? He just has a quicktopic wherein he can just talk to himself. If there is one Mason, does there have to be another?

In most games I think the answer is yes, in this one... I don't know.

[Jimmmmm]

Hmm well I think I've heard of three different approaches to this.

One Mason => at least one other Mason.
One Mason => IC.
One Mason => lonely Mason.

I think the third is probably true, that there can be a Mason in a thread by himself. I guess the advantage to this is that if someone claims to be a lonely Mason, and someone else is a Mason, they know the first person is lying. Unless of course, 3 Masons => 2 friends and a loner, which I don't think is true but someone can correct me if you think I'm wrong.

[Galzria]

Yeah, FoS Robz for making a Fullclaim and a partial claim by a MA into a massclaim. Even with a fullclaim from Eevee, and I'm pretty sure he'll claim mason we haven't really gotten much. Or am I missing something?

this is an interesting point... well Lekkit doesn't really make it, but it makes me ask the question:

Can a mason be a mason by himself? If so what is the point? He just has a quicktopic wherein he can just talk to himself. If there is one Mason, does there have to be another?

In most games I think the answer is yes, in this one... I don't know.

I was a lover in Arcana I. The other player did NOT till lover as well, so had no knowledge of me. It meant that I knew he was town, and if he died, I did too. In turn, he did NOT know that I was town, and did not die if I did. However, it made things more than difficult when he pressed me as being scummy throughout the entire game, and I had to defend him and misdirect to the best of my ability.

My point is, pair units don't always come in pairs in this game.

[Voltgloss]

I have thoughts, but they need to wait until after Eevee claims whether or not he has a QT.

In particular, while I think yuma's question is a reasonable one, and I understand jimmmmm addressing it, I think we should not address it further until after Eevee claims QT-or-no-QT.  I'll explain why at that time.

[yuma]

Yeah, FoS Robz for making a Fullclaim and a partial claim by a MA into a massclaim. Even with a fullclaim from Eevee, and I'm pretty sure he'll claim mason we haven't really gotten much. Or am I missing something?

this is an interesting point... well Lekkit doesn't really make it, but it makes me ask the question:

Can a mason be a mason by himself? If so what is the point? He just has a quicktopic wherein he can just talk to himself. If there is one Mason, does there have to be another?

In most games I think the answer is yes, in this one... I don't know.

I was a lover in Arcana I. The other player did NOT till lover as well, so had no knowledge of me. It meant that I knew he was town, and if he died, I did too. In turn, he did NOT know that I was town, and did not die if I did. However, it made things more than difficult when he pressed me as being scummy throughout the entire game, and I had to defend him and misdirect to the best of my ability.

My point is, pair units don't always come in pairs in this game.

deleted (pre-posting deleted obviously) post per Voltgloss suggesting we not talk until eevee gets here... But I did PM it to myself so I would remember to post if it is still necessary

[Lekkit]

Ins, why do you drop bombs and then dissappear?

[shraeye]

I have thoughts, but they need to wait until after Eevee claims whether or not he has a QT.

In particular, while I think yuma's question is a reasonable one, and I understand jimmmmm addressing it, I think we should not address it further until after Eevee claims QT-or-no-QT.  I'll explain why at that time.

I think I'm thinking the same thing as you, or at least something which I want to hold back until Eevee says something.

[Grujah]

I suppose for now FoS: Eevee until he claims Mason/non-Mason and on all three if he claims non-Mason.

Now, I don't know why I am railing you this much but..

Why the need to state the absolutely obvious?

[yuma]

I suppose for now FoS: Eevee until he claims Mason/non-Mason and on all three if he claims non-Mason.

Now, I don't know why I am railing you this much but..

Why the need to state the absolutely obvious?

again I had the exact same thought as Grujah... and again didn't necessarily feel it was important... at least not yet... again...

[Lekkit]

I think I've got something on the matter as well. I'll tell you when Eevee's replied properly.

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Am I the only one who sees the possibility that Ins could be a redirector, or scum trying to get town cred? Even if he would be a MA (which he may very well not be), that wouldn't be proved until he would flip. Which he won't if he is doctored, outwifom the other scums or if he's bulletproof.  At which time his death could've helped a scum faction a bunch. I'm not saying I think he's scum, all I'm saying is that I'm definately not ruling out the possibility of him not being really honest. Last game both MA were scum. Just sayin'.

[yuma]

I think I've got something on the matter as well. I'll tell you when Eevee's replied properly.

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Am I the only one who sees the possibility that Ins could be a redirector, or scum trying to get town cred? Even if he would be a MA (which he may very well not be), that wouldn't be proved until he would flip. Which he won't if he is doctored, outwifom the other scums or if he's bulletproof.  At which time his death could've helped a scum faction a bunch. I'm not saying I think he's scum, all I'm saying is that I'm definately not ruling out the possibility of him not being really honest. Last game both MA were scum. Just sayin'.

Even if everything he said is true, Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think more likely town than the opposing scum, but still

[Galzria]

I think I've got something on the matter as well. I'll tell you when Eevee's replied properly.

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Am I the only one who sees the possibility that Ins could be a redirector, or scum trying to get town cred? Even if he would be a MA (which he may very well not be), that wouldn't be proved until he would flip. Which he won't if he is doctored, outwifom the other scums or if he's bulletproof.  At which time his death could've helped a scum faction a bunch. I'm not saying I think he's scum, all I'm saying is that I'm definately not ruling out the possibility of him not being really honest. Last game both MA were scum. Just sayin'.

Even if everything he said is true, Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think more likely town than the opposing scum, but still

[Robz888]

I think I've got something on the matter as well. I'll tell you when Eevee's replied properly.

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Am I the only one who sees the possibility that Ins could be a redirector, or scum trying to get town cred? Even if he would be a MA (which he may very well not be), that wouldn't be proved until he would flip. Which he won't if he is doctored, outwifom the other scums or if he's bulletproof.  At which time his death could've helped a scum faction a bunch. I'm not saying I think he's scum, all I'm saying is that I'm definately not ruling out the possibility of him not being really honest. Last game both MA were scum. Just sayin'.

Even if everything he said is true, Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think more likely town than the opposing scum, but still

Vote: Yuma

Yeah you got him.

[Robz888]

Yeah, FoS Robz for making a Fullclaim and a partial claim by a MA into a massclaim. Even with a fullclaim from Eevee, and I'm pretty sure he'll claim mason we haven't really gotten much. Or am I missing something?

FoS your face. This is NOT my doing.

[Galzria]

I think I've got something on the matter as well. I'll tell you when Eevee's replied properly.

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Am I the only one who sees the possibility that Ins could be a redirector, or scum trying to get town cred? Even if he would be a MA (which he may very well not be), that wouldn't be proved until he would flip. Which he won't if he is doctored, outwifom the other scums or if he's bulletproof.  At which time his death could've helped a scum faction a bunch. I'm not saying I think he's scum, all I'm saying is that I'm definately not ruling out the possibility of him not being really honest. Last game both MA were scum. Just sayin'.

Even if everything he said is true, Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think more likely town than the opposing scum, but still

Vote: Yuma

Yeah you got him.

I had him earlier. Nobody wanted to listen to me then though.

[Robz888]

I think I've got something on the matter as well. I'll tell you when Eevee's replied properly.

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Am I the only one who sees the possibility that Ins could be a redirector, or scum trying to get town cred? Even if he would be a MA (which he may very well not be), that wouldn't be proved until he would flip. Which he won't if he is doctored, outwifom the other scums or if he's bulletproof.  At which time his death could've helped a scum faction a bunch. I'm not saying I think he's scum, all I'm saying is that I'm definately not ruling out the possibility of him not being really honest. Last game both MA were scum. Just sayin'.

Even if everything he said is true, Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think more likely town than the opposing scum, but still

Vote: Yuma

Yeah you got him.

I had him earlier. Nobody wanted to listen to me then though.

Well that was like omgus, not the most convincing thing ever. This is a "I have a zero percent chance of flipping town" moment

[Voltgloss]

 
Vote: yuma

PPE:  FoS Robz for stealing my thunder while I was off makin' a meme

[Grujah]

WTH?

This is not anywhere near "0% of flipping town"

I am the only one who read that as -  "the other scum team than one in which eevee/galz/robz are"?

[Grujah]

vote: Robz888

[Galzria]

I think I've got something on the matter as well. I'll tell you when Eevee's replied properly.

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Am I the only one who sees the possibility that Ins could be a redirector, or scum trying to get town cred? Even if he would be a MA (which he may very well not be), that wouldn't be proved until he would flip. Which he won't if he is doctored, outwifom the other scums or if he's bulletproof.  At which time his death could've helped a scum faction a bunch. I'm not saying I think he's scum, all I'm saying is that I'm definately not ruling out the possibility of him not being really honest. Last game both MA were scum. Just sayin'.

Even if everything he said is true, Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think more likely town than the opposing scum, but still

Vote: Yuma

Yeah you got him.

I had him earlier. Nobody wanted to listen to me then though.

Well that was like omgus, not the most convincing thing ever. This is a "I have a zero percent chance of flipping town" moment

That most certainly was NOT "OMGUS". It was a terrible response to a first-post-RVS-joke - the type more often made by scum than town, because it sounds good, and sounds like their town Meta. Had Yuma done the same thing later in the game, yeah, sure, I'd buy it as Town!Yuma. But not out of the gates like that over my first post. It's like you in the last Blitz game Robz. One of my very early posts commented on how easy it would be for you to follow in your expected town!meta of "Masons should claim" even as scum, and that we should be wary of you doing just that as scum. There's a time and a place to stand by your beliefs. Voting someone over RVS jokery, and saying "This is a serious vote, and I won't unvote unless there's a very good reason to do so" was a scum!Yuma move designed to mimic his town!meta.

I'll admit that it's not as strong as this, however.

[Galzria]

WTH?

This is not anywhere near "0% of flipping town"

I am the only one who read that as -  "the other scum team than one in which eevee/galz/robz are"?

I think I've got something on the matter as well. I'll tell you when Eevee's replied properly.

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Am I the only one who sees the possibility that Ins could be a redirector, or scum trying to get town cred? Even if he would be a MA (which he may very well not be), that wouldn't be proved until he would flip. Which he won't if he is doctored, outwifom the other scums or if he's bulletproof.  At which time his death could've helped a scum faction a bunch. I'm not saying I think he's scum, all I'm saying is that I'm definately not ruling out the possibility of him not being really honest. Last game both MA were scum. Just sayin'.

Even if everything he said is true, Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think [Insomniac is] more likely town than the opposing scum, but still

Mind pointing me to where your read reference that would draw your conclusion to be that he was talking about "the other scum team than one in which eevee/galz/robz are"?

[Lekkit]

Vote: yuma

"Slippery little suckers..."

[Grujah]

I dunno why I didn't wait for yuma to respond first but, if we trust Ins on his powers, one of Galz/Eeve/Robz is probably scum.
Now, if when Ins investigated 3 persons, he definitely wouldn't investigate his own scum team. So, if he did struck scum, it was from opposing team.

[Robz888]

I dunno why I didn't wait for yuma to respond first but, if we trust Ins on his powers, one of Galz/Eeve/Robz is probably scum.
Now, if when Ins investigated 3 persons, he definitely wouldn't investigate his own scum team. So, if he did struck scum, it was from opposing team.

But.... Masons...

[Grujah]

Only thing that would explain how it is a scum is if he knew that one of yuo/Galz/Evee was scum, and his partner, and that's why he wrote "opposing team", forgetting that one of you guys may not be scum but a Mason.

Now, I get that, and with trying to push Galz over a .. joke, (which I don't like when I think about it), it does raise the heat, but I don't think it's a 100% slammer.

[shraeye]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

[Galzria]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

Looks like I found me his buddy to NK when he flips scum. Second time defending him. Thanks Shraeye!

[ashersky]

Man, sorry, didn't get caught up till now.

Interested to hear from Eevee on this QT business, and I don't know about the insom claim that lead to it.  A lot to digest here!

I disagree with shraeye, and do think yuma slipped.  Vote: Yuma, even.

[Robz888]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

Looks like I found me his buddy to NK when he flips scum. Second time defending him. Thanks Shraeye!

Looks like it.

[ashersky]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

Looks like I found me his buddy to NK when he flips scum. Second time defending him. Thanks Shraeye!

Wait, you have an NK?  Scumslip #2 of the day?

[Galzria]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

Looks like I found me his buddy to NK when he flips scum. Second time defending him. Thanks Shraeye!

Wait, you have an NK?  Scumslip #2 of the day?

I already claimed 5 of Pentacles.

[shraeye]

Now, I get that, and with trying to push Galz over a .. joke, (which I don't like when I think about it), it does raise the heat, but I don't think it's a 100% slammer.

Yuma was in no way pushing a Galz lynch.  He voted Galz for Galz selfvote joke, but hasn't tried to encourage a single person to join him.  It's just yuma standing on principle, and he doesn't care if anyone joins him.

[Robz888]

Man, sorry, didn't get caught up till now.

Interested to hear from Eevee on this QT business, and I don't know about the insom claim that lead to it.  A lot to digest here!

I disagree with shraeye, and do think yuma slipped.  Vote: Yuma, even.

Les not kill him tho until eevee talks please

[Robz888]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

Looks like I found me his buddy to NK when he flips scum. Second time defending him. Thanks Shraeye!

Wait, you have an NK?  Scumslip #2 of the day?

Galz is a Vig.

[Galzria]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

Looks like I found me his buddy to NK when he flips scum. Second time defending him. Thanks Shraeye!

Wait, you have an NK?  Scumslip #2 of the day?

Don't have full access but. I'm the wizard (major arcana) I'm claimin because out of Galz/robz/Eevee one of them has a qt. thus I am now claiming two are town and one is not. I don't have full access unfortunately so I can't fill claim but I'm major arcana there might be a doctor so mafia wifom etc.

Based on responses I think Galz is most likely scum but I need town help

I am the wizard

I am not. I am the 5 of Pentacles.

Since I'm being forced out by bad play anyway, we might as well get this out in the open and narrow down the field to two. Good job Insomniac.

[Lekkit]

Unvote

[Grujah]

What is this with Robz and Galz budding up each other?

[Lekkit]

We've got 12 days before deadline. Eevee should be here either in an hour or so or in about 8-10.

[ashersky]

Sorry, should have looked to see what the 5 of Tentacles did.

[Galzria]

Sorry, should have looked to see what the 5 of Tentacles did.

Man, now THAT'S different!

[Grujah]

We've got 12 days before deadline. Eevee should be here either in an hour or so or in about 8-10.

It's 3 AM Europe, soo.. I'd say 8-10 

[Voltgloss]

Sorry, should have looked to see what the 5 of Tentacles did.

Man, now THAT'S different!

Lovecraft Mafia.  Dibs. 

If you prefer Lovecraft Mafia to Shakespeare Mafia, PM me to that effect.  I'm not even kidding.  I'd do this in a heartbeat.

[Lekkit]

It's 3 am here, so it should be like 4 am in Finland. Eevee is a night person (or at least he has told us he were). But yeah, if I had to put money on the line, I would guess 8-10.

[Robz888]

What is this with Robz and Galz budding up each other?

It's called informed agreement.

[Voltgloss]

What is this with Robz and Galz budding up each other?

Ironically, if what Insom says is true, then Robz and Galz cannot possibly be scum on the same team.

[Grujah]

Well, you are most likely right. Though Ins wasn't completely clear on wording ..(like, he might have got that they have access to ONE QT - but it is quite unlikely that this is the case).

[Lekkit]

Don't have full access but. I'm the wizard (major arcana) I'm claimin because out of Galz/robz/Eevee one of them has a qt. thus I am now claiming two are town and one is not. I don't have full access unfortunately so I can't fill claim but I'm major arcana there might be a doctor so mafia wifom etc.

Based on responses I think Galz is most likely scum but I need town help

I am the wizard

[yuma]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

exactly! (in fact I was one of the people that had previously expressed doubt about Insomniac's truthfullness/alignment). Major FOS at all of you that voted for me. Seriously that was ridiculous. Going back to reread who jumped on that and will go from there.

[Galzria]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

exactly! (in fact I was one of the people that had previously expressed doubt about Insomniac's truthfullness/alignment). Major FOS at all of you that voted for me. Seriously that was ridiculous. Going back to reread who jumped on that and will go from there.

Nice when your scummate writes your defense for you, isn't it?

[Grujah]

FWIW, "going back to re-read" is my official scum getaway, timebuying, tactics.

[shraeye]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

Looks like I found me his buddy to NK when he flips scum. Second time defending him. Thanks Shraeye!

Jesus Christo, you waited all of 50 seconds after I posted to jump to the conclusion that for saying this wasn't a scumslip, I am clearly yuma's scumbuddy. 

Did you even read my response??  No, you apparently didn't.  You are 200% locked in on yuma being scum, so much that you're assigning scumreads to other people based on yuma's unknown alignment.  This is exactly the type of shitty tunnelling that destroys people's ability to form accurate reads.  You need to settle down.

Let me remind you about how terribly scumshraeye has fooled you before.  If yuma were scum, and I were his partner, do you think I'd jump to yuma's defense when clearly he is sitting in a lot of people's crosshairs??  No, if yuma is scum his partners are either jumping on the bandwagon with no hesitation, or they've decided not to touch this issue with a 10ft pole.

[Galzria]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

Looks like I found me his buddy to NK when he flips scum. Second time defending him. Thanks Shraeye!

Jesus Christo, you waited all of 50 seconds after I posted to jump to the conclusion that for saying this wasn't a scumslip, I am clearly yuma's scumbuddy. 

Did you even read my response??  No, you apparently didn't.  You are 200% locked in on yuma being scum, so much that you're assigning scumreads to other people based on yuma's unknown alignment.  This is exactly the type of shitty tunnelling that destroys people's ability to form accurate reads.  You need to settle down.

Let me remind you about how terribly scumshraeye has fooled you before.  If yuma were scum, and I were his partner, do you think I'd jump to yuma's defense when clearly he is sitting in a lot of people's crosshairs??  No, if yuma is scum his partners are either jumping on the bandwagon with no hesitation, or they've decided not to touch this issue with a 10ft pole.

Yawn. Scramble Scramble. Look at him scramble!

[yuma]

Galz, Robz, Voltgloss, Lekkit, ashersky all voted for me.

Voltgloss I have the hardest time believing that he would think my statement was a slip. Lekkit and ash look most like a wagon jumpers...

Robz and Galz... both are part of the Galz/Robz/Insomniac ongoing controversy

[yuma]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

exactly! (in fact I was one of the people that had previously expressed doubt about Insomniac's truthfullness/alignment). Major FOS at all of you that voted for me. Seriously that was ridiculous. Going back to reread who jumped on that and will go from there.

Nice when your scummate writes your defense for you, isn't it?

this coming from a player who is up for a Best Mafia player nomination. You are better than this. Go back, reread and get rid of preformed conclusions...

[Grujah]

Robz and Galz... both are part of the Galz/Robz/Insomniac* ongoing controversy

*Eevee.

I need a popsquote here where he says errors are slight scumtells.

[Galzria]

I'm not voting yuma, that wasn't a scumslip.

Insomniac is saying that he's found scum because he found somebody with a QT (yeah, Robz, there's the deal with Masons, but we still haven't heard from eevee).  A few people may have expressed doubts on Insomniac's truthfulness/alignment publicly or hidden, the argument being that if he is on scumteam A, then it would be great for him to reveal a member of scumteam B.  So even if Insom's info is true he may not be town, he may be "on the opposing scumfaction."

Yuma said exactly this, then adding that Insom is more likely town than on the opposing scumteam.  Because he didn't spell it out word for word, you all are getting your undies in a bundle.  This is a crap case, and I'm disappointed at how radically quickly it's taken off.  Nobody seems like they are even waiting for Eevee to respond anymore.

exactly! (in fact I was one of the people that had previously expressed doubt about Insomniac's truthfullness/alignment). Major FOS at all of you that voted for me. Seriously that was ridiculous. Going back to reread who jumped on that and will go from there.

Nice when your scummate writes your defense for you, isn't it?

this coming from a player who is up for a Best Mafia player nomination. You are better than this. Go back, reread and get rid of preformed conclusions...

"oops, I didn't mean 0% of flipping town, I meant 0%of flipping scum!" - Sorry Yuma, heard it before.

[yuma]

this is completely different!

Here I'll go back for you since apparently you are too freaking lazy to do so.

Here I say basically the same thing that I said below:

I don't have full access unfortunately so I can't fill claim but I'm major arcana there might be a doctor so mafia wifom etc.

You might also be Major Arcana from an opposing faction... and so could one of the other people you list as not having access to a QT. WFIOM again.

why didn't you jump on me here? I obviously meant here that Insomniac might be from an opposing faction in regard to the person with a QT (assuming some sort of scum)

I then post this that you jumped on in response to Lekkit asking if anyone else is doubtful of Insomniac.

I think I've got something on the matter as well. I'll tell you when Eevee's replied properly.

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Am I the only one who sees the possibility that Ins could be a redirector, or scum trying to get town cred? Even if he would be a MA (which he may very well not be), that wouldn't be proved until he would flip. Which he won't if he is doctored, outwifom the other scums or if he's bulletproof.  At which time his death could've helped a scum faction a bunch. I'm not saying I think he's scum, all I'm saying is that I'm definately not ruling out the possibility of him not being really honest. Last game both MA were scum. Just sayin'.

Even if everything he said is true, Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think more likely town than the opposing scum, but still

Look at the context. You are a journalist, use your journalistic skills!

[Voltgloss]

Voltgloss I have the hardest time believing that he would think my statement was a slip.

Not sure why you'd think that, I zeroed in on Frisk's "0% chance of flipping town" while in the speccy/dead-person QT of that game.  While I think most supposed "scumslips" are not in fact scumslips, I do put weight on something that appears really egregious - and I think the way to handle such examples is to press the speaker hard and fast and get a genuine response out of them.

I do wish Grujah and shraeye hadn't made your explanations for you before you arrived.  It would have been really revealing to see that genuine response of yours under pressure WITHOUT receiving help from other players.  Now though, we'll never know what you'd have done.

PPE:  Actually, we do know what you've done:  you've presented evidence from your other posts that you were already thinking/using the "opposing faction/opposing scum" language with respect to Insom, which DOES explain its reappearance in a context where it didn't initially make sense.  And that's... fairly compelling to me, actually.  So.  Unvote.

[Galzria]

this is completely different!

Here I'll go back for you since apparently you are too freaking lazy to do so.

Here I say basically the same thing that I said below:

I don't have full access unfortunately so I can't fill claim but I'm major arcana there might be a doctor so mafia wifom etc.

You might also be Major Arcana from an opposing faction... and so could one of the other people you list as not having access to a QT. WFIOM again.

why didn't you jump on me here? I obviously meant here that Insomniac might be from an opposing faction in regard to the person with a QT (assuming some sort of scum)

I then post this that you jumped on in response to Lekkit asking if anyone else is doubtful of Insomniac.

I think I've got something on the matter as well. I'll tell you when Eevee's replied properly.

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Am I the only one who sees the possibility that Ins could be a redirector, or scum trying to get town cred? Even if he would be a MA (which he may very well not be), that wouldn't be proved until he would flip. Which he won't if he is doctored, outwifom the other scums or if he's bulletproof.  At which time his death could've helped a scum faction a bunch. I'm not saying I think he's scum, all I'm saying is that I'm definately not ruling out the possibility of him not being really honest. Last game both MA were scum. Just sayin'.

Even if everything he said is true, Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think more likely town than the opposing scum, but still

Look at the context. You are a journalist, use your journalistic skills!

I don't have full access unfortunately so I can't fill claim but I'm major arcana there might be a doctor so mafia wifom etc.

You might also be Major Arcana from an opposing faction... and so could one of the other people you list as not having access to a QT. WFIOM again.

You write from a Point of View perspective. You never place yourself in his, or anybody else's shoes. There's no reference to you assuming "from X's perspective". So the above reads "You might also be Major Arcana from an opposing faction [to my own]" - which is NOT egregious, because the base assumption of the statement is that your faction is town. Thus Insomniac (The "You" to whom you reference), could be MA from an opposing faction - Essentially, he deserves no extraordinary town credit.

Well this is interesting. I don't see any reason not to trust Insom, mainly because he's probably the number one nightkill target for all scum in the game now, and if he's scum, then he's still going to be a target of the other scum team (assuming there is more than one - I don't think he would have a reason to assume otherwise). So the only reason I can see him doing this is because he thinks the information he has is important enough that it's worth getting him NKed.

Am I the only one who sees the possibility that Ins could be a redirector, or scum trying to get town cred? Even if he would be a MA (which he may very well not be), that wouldn't be proved until he would flip. Which he won't if he is doctored, outwifom the other scums or if he's bulletproof.  At which time his death could've helped a scum faction a bunch. I'm not saying I think he's scum, all I'm saying is that I'm definately not ruling out the possibility of him not being really honest. Last game both MA were scum. Just sayin'.
[/quote]

Even if everything he said is true, Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think more likely town than the opposing scum, but still
[/quote]

Again, in this quote, your write from a Point of View perspective. You've given no indication that the voice here is any but your own. The difference here, is that you are directing your statement to Lekkit, rather than directly at Insomniac. So rather than say "You might be... an opposing faction", you say "Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think [he's] more likely town than the opposing scum".

But you never indicate with your post that the answer to the question of "Opposing scum of whom" is anybody but yourself. There's no third party reference. It's you, and it's Insomniac. The difference between your first post and your second, is the change in term from "opposing faction" which is perfectly acceptable from town, and NOT a scumslip, to "opposing scum faction".

In both cases, the voice is yours, and the perspective is yours. The second was a scumslip.

[Grujah]

I do wish Grujah and shraeye hadn't made your explanations for you before you arrived.  It would have been really revealing to see that genuine response of yours under pressure WITHOUT receiving help from other players.  Now though, we'll never know what you'd have done.

I wouldn't have if you didn't all jump like crazy, I've actually wrote that as soon as Galz quoted and than postponed posting to see what happens, you voting tipped me over to also post.

[yuma]

Galz:

Thanks for at least gong back and reading what I posted. If I understand your analysis correctly you are basically saying that in my first post there is an assumption that I am town within it because I said "opposing faction," but in my second because I said, "opposing scum faction."

Here I disagree because in my first post I certainly meant exactly the same thing as "opposing scum faction."

In that if Insomniac found scum (let's say he found mafia), then he is either 1. town or 2. WW (the opposing faction).

It is the opposing scum faction because there is likely 2 scum factions (well 3 if SK). My whole point in those statements was: don't give Insomniac town cred for this.

But I have a feeling that arguing with you is going to be pointless... You seem pretty dead set on interpreting my post as a scum-slip. Do you at least admit that this situation is very different from Frisk's 100% scum statement? His was more of a typo that happened to be a slip, whereas mine is a misinterpretation (and isn't a scumslip to begin with!)

[Lekkit]

Looks like Eevee is online.

[Axxle]

Yeah, FoS Robz for making a Fullclaim and a partial claim by a MA into a massclaim. Even with a fullclaim from Eevee, and I'm pretty sure he'll claim mason we haven't really gotten much. Or am I missing something?

this is an interesting point... well Lekkit doesn't really make it, but it makes me ask the question:

Can a mason be a mason by himself? If so what is the point? He just has a quicktopic wherein he can just talk to himself. If there is one Mason, does there have to be another?

In most games I think the answer is yes, in this one... I don't know.

I was a lonely Mason in MIX (the previous major arcana game).  I was basically a named townie.  Didn't get a QT and didn't get IC status.

[Eevee]

Nope, no QT has Eevee no.

[Galzria]

FoS Insomniac for not being available 24 hours a day.

[Axxle]

WTH?

This is not anywhere near "0% of flipping town"

I am the only one who read that as -  "the other scum team than one in which eevee/galz/robz are"?

This is exactly how I read it too. 

[Axxle]

vote: Robz888

I think it's an honest mistake though and not worth a vote.

[Eevee]

I have a hard time following the discussion surrounding the supposed scumslip.  so i don't think it was one, just ambiguous wording that doesn't depend on his faction.

[Axxle]

I'm thinking: Lynch Robz or Eevee, Galz NK's the other if they don't flip scum, Lynch Galz if the NK doesn't flip scum?  Might be stopped by a roleblocker though, not sure if strongman goes around that.

[Axxle]

And 2 for 1 might be a bit bad if we do this in the wrong order.

[Eevee]

I don't particularly want to die!

[jotheonah]

hmmmm...

not entirely convinced yuma scumslip is a scumslip.

But it's a pretty good D1 case, not gonna lie. That is to say, we've lynched people day 1 for so much less.

@Insom. Why? Why out yourself as Major Arcana based on 1 in 3 chance of catching a person who is either scum or a mason? You may have just succeeded in outing yourself and two town PRs while catching no scum at all.

PPE: more stuff happened

[Eevee]

I think it's probable there is more to insomniac's thing than he is letting us in on. but lets wait for him to get here.

[Galzria]

More reads!

Me >> Insomniac > Jimmm >>> Eevee > Everybody else >> Shraeye > Axxle > Robz >> Yuma

Of course, that's a bit harder to quantify in a double-scum game, but it's a baseline anyway.

[Axxle]

And 2 for 1 might be a bit bad if we do this in the wrong order.

I know I said this but Galz's tunnelling on yuma seems really bad/scummy.

[Axxle]

I'm thinking: Lynch Robz or Eevee, Galz NK's the other if they don't flip scum, Lynch Galz if the NK doesn't flip scum?  Might be stopped by a roleblocker though, not sure if strongman goes around that.

Meant to quote this.

[jotheonah]

Ok, hold on now. We have a pool of three with one scum - I take it back Insom, seems to have worked out well.

@Axxle, killing all three seems like a terrible way to handle this.

People voting yuma: does it give you any pause that the two people who pushed his wagon are two of Insomniac's three possible scum? That strikes me as a reason to hold off, scumslip or none.

[Axxle]

@Axxle, killing all three seems like a terrible way to handle this.

If it's 1 scum and 2 town I agree, but I'll have to hear from insom because it might be 1 scum, 2 unknown (town, mafia, werewolf, sk)

[jotheonah]

Don't have full access but. I'm the wizard (major arcana) I'm claimin because out of Galz/robz/Eevee one of them has a qt. thus I am now claiming two are town and one is not. I don't have full access unfortunately so I can't fill claim but I'm major arcana there might be a doctor so mafia wifom etc.

Based on responses I think Galz is most likely scum but I need town help

I am the wizard

[Eevee]

@Axxle, killing all three seems like a terrible way to handle this.

If it's 1 scum and 2 town I agree, but I'll have to hear from insom because it might be 1 scum, 2 unknown (town, mafia, werewolf, sk)

I understood that he knows one of us has a qt and the other two don't. Fwiw, I'm leaning towards Robz because galz did risk a counterclaim when he claimed his card.

[Robz888]

GUYS. I have a plan. Hold on. Don't don't do anything. I can solve this.

[Robz888]

I am a dayvig. So, I can shoot either Eevee or Galz. This should clear me (mostly--I guess I could be a scum day Vig major arcana, but other than that...), and we will figure out which of the other two is scum. If we are wrong, we lynch the other.

This works, yes?

[Eevee]

Whats your card?

[Robz888]

Whats your card?

Five of wands

[Eevee]

Whats your card?

King of swords perhaps? 

[jotheonah]

So, for those of you following along at home, two people accused of being scum just claimed vig.

Dayvig, however, is a lot less likely scum than nightvig, which can look a lot like regular nightkill.

And then there's Eevee.

Robz, don't shoot anybody in the middle of the night.

Eevee, I think perhaps you ought to claim. Galz and rObz both have now, and it's tricky for scum to fake claim at this stage in the game.

[Eevee]

Cayvie, would q day vig be flavored, could we tell if it was made by a werewolf or a townie?

fos at Robz for forgetting to mention the king of swords/straight up misleading town..

[jotheonah]

Oh, good catch Eevee. There is a scum dayvig. Oy.

[cayvie]

Cayvie, would q day vig be flavored, could we tell if it was made by a werewolf or a townie?

fos at Robz for forgetting to mention the king of swords/straight up misleading town..

watch me not answer this question

get ready

are you watching?

here goes:

[jotheonah]

Scum does not appear to have a strongman kill, so Galzria could prove himself if he declared his target and someone protected said target.

[Eevee]

Thanks for the fast non-answer.

Joth, i would rather not claim unless i have to to avoid getting lynched. I think we caught Robz anyways, and isnt it better to not help him decide which of me and Galz to vig if he is scum?

not sure about this though, what do others think?

[Eevee]

Scum does not appear to have a strongman kill, so Galzria could prove himself if he declared his target and someone protected said target.

major arcanas, redirects and wasting the doctor for one night though..

[Jimmmmm]

@Axxle, killing all three seems like a terrible way to handle this.

While I agree with this, that's only the worst-case scenario. I think it's fairly safe to say that at least one of {Insom, Galz, Robz, Eevee} is scum. I also think it's reasonable to say that the most likely Town of these is Insom. If we believe Galz (not saying I do, still unsure what to make of Galz' game so far, but Galz seems the easiest to verify) then that leaves us with Robz and Eevee. If we hit scum, that's great, mission successful. If not, then Galz can take care of the other and we're 1-1 which seems like a good return. If it turns out Galz is (the?) scum, then he's/his team's going to NK anyway so there's not much we can do about that, and we can lynch Galz and be 1-1 from Town kills. Worst case, they're all Town and Insom is scum, in which case it might be worth it to find him out rather than wrongly trust him for the rest of the game.

So at this stage, Axxle's plan seems plausible. Would like to hear from Robz and Eevee. And Galz. And Insom. And everyone else.

PPE: Wow okay, some stuff has happened. New plan? Maybe we do an unofficial vote and if we get to "L" then Robz can dayvig?

[Eevee]

I think its extremely likely that Robz has a dayvig like he claims.

[Galzria]

I'll point out that these reads were made before Robz claimed, and had we gone to night for whatever reason, Robz has been targeted for my NK for some time. Buddying is a crime in my book. Always has been. And his buddying (as noticed by Grujah), was rather silly. Between his sheep vote to Yuma (still think that was a scumslip), to backing me with absolute confidence on shooting Shraeye, he had already set himself apart.

The only question is do we lynch him, or do I NK him? In either case, he'll fire before we can do anything. I can no longer make him take his power to the grave. Oh well

More reads!

Me >> Insomniac > Jimmm >>> Eevee > Everybody else >> Shraeye > Axxle > Robz >> Yuma

Of course, that's a bit harder to quantify in a double-scum game, but it's a baseline anyway.

[jotheonah]

Yeah, totally leaving out the scum dayvig + having said mum since then ... I'm warming to a Vote: Robz.

[Eevee]

Dare I suggest trying to quickwagon him before he gets online to vig a townie? I think it's very likely he is scum..

[Galzria]

Dare I suggest trying to quickwagon him before he gets online to vig a townie? I think it's very likely he is scum..

If he's not, you understand that I'm shooting you, correct?

[jotheonah]

Sweet let's do this. Everybody vote Robz quickly!

[Galzria]

Dare I suggest trying to quickwagon him before he gets online to vig a townie? I think it's very likely he is scum..

If he's not, you understand that I'm shooting you, correct?

Not that I disagree, mind you. Vote: Robz even.

But unless Insomniac is lying scum (possible), then if Robz is town, and I'm town, you must be scum.

If, as I suspect, Robz flips scum, then I'll choose more carefully.

[Eevee]

Dare I suggest trying to quickwagon him before he gets online to vig a townie? I think it's very likely he is scum..

If he's not, you understand that I'm shooting you, correct?

I would expect you to do that if you were town, yes. You would probably want to leave me alive if you are scum though, and I think both of you being town is veryvery unlikely (rage at Insomniac if that's somehow the case), so this should work out fine.

[Eevee]

Vote: Robz

[jotheonah]

Users active in past 15 minutes, who are playing this game:
jotheonah, Galzria, Eevee, Lekkit, Jimmmmm, shraeye, ashersky

[Eevee]

You dont have to shoot tonight if Robz flips scum though?

With 16 alive it's 9 to lynch btw.. 8 after Robz gets here and vigs someone i guess.

[Lekkit]

Ugh. I'd hate to quicklynch someone so that they cannot dayvig. I always have a hard time reading Robz, I don't really know why. I'm not just sure about this.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm here but at work, so not 100% here.

Not sure how I feel about a day 1 quickhammer. Seems a little underhanded, but I suppose if Robz is scum and it stops him from killing a Townie then it's worth it. A post count would be nice.

[Axxle]

Don't have full access but. I'm the wizard (major arcana) I'm claimin because out of Galz/robz/Eevee one of them has a qt. thus I am now claiming two are town and one is not. I don't have full access unfortunately so I can't fill claim but I'm major arcana there might be a doctor so mafia wifom etc.

Based on responses I think Galz is most likely scum but I need town help

I am the wizard

Ah, sure.  SK is a possibility but much more unlikely then.

[Lekkit]

And I would really hate to leave my vote on Robz, since I'm heading home from work in 20 minutes. I'll see where stuff are then. I'm not entirely against lynching Robz, but I'm not really happy about it either. I would prefer lynching someone along Robz/Galz/Eevz/Inz, since one of them is obviously lying.

[Eevee]

And I would really hate to leave my vote on Robz, since I'm heading home from work in 20 minutes. I'll see where stuff are then. I'm not entirely against lynching Robz, but I'm not really happy about it either. I would prefer lynching someone along Robz/Galz/Eevz/Inz, since one of them is obviously lying.

I dont understand this post. Who of us is more likely to be scum than Robz then?

Also weirdness, no such thing as the wizard in the list of possible major arcana roles??

[Galzria]

And I would really hate to leave my vote on Robz, since I'm heading home from work in 20 minutes. I'll see where stuff are then. I'm not entirely against lynching Robz, but I'm not really happy about it either. I would prefer lynching someone along Robz/Galz/Eevz/Inz, since one of them is obviously lying.

And this kills two of those 3, with my head next if they both flip town (which they won't, unless Insomniac is lying scum, which seems unlikely).

[Axxle]

Yeah, totally leaving out the scum dayvig + having said mum since then ... I'm warming to a Vote: Robz.

As scum I think it's likely for him to say "Well I may be the scum vig, but..." instead of just ignoring it.

[Galzria]

Insomniac was phone posting, and probably meant The Magician.

[Eevee]

And I would really hate to leave my vote on Robz, since I'm heading home from work in 20 minutes. I'll see where stuff are then. I'm not entirely against lynching Robz, but I'm not really happy about it either. I would prefer lynching someone along Robz/Galz/Eevz/Inz, since one of them is obviously lying.

And this kills two of those 3, with my head next if they both flip town (which they won't, unless Insomniac is lying scum, which seems unlikely).

I too approve of this plan. Galzria cant afford to shoot me if he is scum, and both Galzria and Robz cant very well be town (the card Ins claimed not being in the game does worry me though..).

[Jimmmmm]

Um, I'm a little confused.

Where is the Wizard?

Major Arcana

0: The Fool
I: The Magician
II: The High Priestess
III: The Empress
IV: The Emperor
V: The Hierophant
VI: The Lovers
VII: The Chariot
VIII: Strength
IX: The Hermit
X: The Wheel of Fortune
XI: Justice
XII: The Hanged Man
XIII: Death
XIV: Temperance
XV: The Devil
XVI: The Tower
XVII: The Star
XVIII: The Moon
XIX: The Sun
XX: Judgment
XXI: The World

[Lekkit]

Looking at the setup there could only be two dayvigs, and one of them is a werewolf. Which basically leaves Robz with 50% chance of being a fuzzy dayvig rather than a towny one.

[Lekkit]

And thinking about it, I'm more or less convinced that a Robz Lynch followed by a vigging of Eevve is what I'd want for today.

[Lekkit]

Vote: Robz

[Eevee]

Looking at the setup there could only be two dayvigs, and one of them is a werewolf. Which basically leaves Robz with 50% chance of being a fuzzy dayvig rather than a towny one.

That is not a good way to do math/analyze that.

[ashersky]

vote: Robz

If he's really a vig, he wouldn't offer to shoot, given town!Robz's EXTREME stance on vigs shooting, especially N1.

That's basically a Robz tenet at this point.  No way he'd offer to shoot if he's a real town vig.

[Axxle]

Um, I'm a little confused.

Where is the Wizard?

It's speculated he means Magician.

I'm increasingly convinced that Robz is town and Galz is scum.

[Eevee]

Lekkit is being really weird guys! Have you been drinking in thus fine morning?

[Lekkit]

As for Ins making up a role name, I think scum would keep better track of a fake claim. I'm pretty sure that his role is actually the Magician. It would make the most sense to me.

[Axxle]

vote: Robz

If he's really a vig, he wouldn't offer to shoot, given town!Robz's EXTREME stance on vigs shooting, especially N1.

That's basically a Robz tenet at this point.  No way he'd offer to shoot if he's a real town vig.

Actually this is the best point for his scumminess so far.  I'll have to think about it.

[Robz888]

Beat up: Eevee

Sorry guys, you made me do this.

[Eevee]

Um, I'm a little confused.

Where is the Wizard?

It's speculated he means Magician.

I'm increasingly convinced that Robz is town and Galz is scum.

Why? The other way around for me, the plan we deviced just cornered Galz completely if he is scum..

[Robz888]

Whats your card?

King of swords perhaps? 

Totally didn't notice there was a scum dayvig.

[Galzria]

Um, I'm a little confused.

Where is the Wizard?

It's speculated he means Magician.

I'm increasingly convinced that Robz is town and Galz is scum.

Then name my kill, and I promise you they'll wake up dead. Period.  (Yes, that was intentional)

[Eevee]

Beat up: Eevee

Sorry guys, you made me do this.

Derp. Admission of scumminess though?

[Axxle]

Um, I'm a little confused.

Where is the Wizard?

It's speculated he means Magician.

I'm increasingly convinced that Robz is town and Galz is scum.

Why? The other way around for me, the plan we deviced just cornered Galz completely if he is scum..

Or killed scum if they're scum.

[Robz888]

Beat up: Eevee

Sorry guys, you made me do this.

Derp. Admission of scumminess though?

Not at all. You flipping scum is the only way I can clear myself though.

[Lekkit]

Looking at the setup there could only be two dayvigs, and one of them is a werewolf. Which basically leaves Robz with 50% chance of being a fuzzy dayvig rather than a towny one.

That is not a good way to do math/analyze that.

It's statistically correct. However statistics aren't everything. I was just arguing with myself. It's almost 7 am in the morning, and by this time yesterday I got up after 4 hours of sleep. Haven't had any since then.

[Robz888]

Beat up: Eevee

Sorry guys, you made me do this.

Derp. Admission of scumminess though?

Not at all. You flipping scum is the only way I can clear myself though.

I would have been happy to talk it over, but you seemed determine to quicklynch me while I was away instead.

[Eevee]

Not being here to discuss and dropping in to do that without asking me to claim was very pro town of you.

[cayvie]

thread locked

[shraeye]

vote: Robz

If he's really a vig, he wouldn't offer to shoot, given town!Robz's EXTREME stance on vigs shooting, especially N1.

That's basically a Robz tenet at this point.  No way he'd offer to shoot if he's a real town vig.

Actually this is the best point for his scumminess so far.  I'll have to think about it.

I'm also thinking about this.  I've been drinking a fair bit, so it's hard to sort out what reads mean what after this craziness. 

PPE: and now there's more action, time to read it up.

[cayvie]

votes are reset to 0 on everyone

thread unlocked

[Galzria]

Erm...?

[Axxle]

So no death?

[ashersky]

Vote: Robz

No way town!Robz shoots as a vig.  I mean, read every post he has ever read on vigs.

And this:

Whats your card?

King of swords perhaps? 

Totally didn't notice there was a scum dayvig.

Robz not knowing the set up is a scum!lie always.



Also, is Eevee alive?

[Lekkit]

W00t?

Eevee, are you the nine of Wands?

[Galzria]

Eevee had bulletproof? The story deepens.

[Lekkit]

Heading home now, will be following this from my phone for about 30 mins, then I'm off for about 24 hours.

[Robz888]

Hold on hold on. Can I talk here before you quicklynch me? Jesus Christ.

[Eevee]

Can we get a Robz lynch without me claiming?

[Jimmmmm]

Huh? Does that mean Eevee's dead and we get no flip?

PPE: Or he could be bulletproof. Are you there, Eevee?

PPE #2: Oh there he is.

[Galzria]

Bwahaha. Well played Eevee. +1,000,000. Would read again.

[Robz888]

Yeah, totally leaving out the scum dayvig + having said mum since then ... I'm warming to a Vote: Robz.

I didn't notice that there was a scum dayvig, sorry! I was not available to talk so I was gone. I was active when I was around. You can check that I wasn't online at all. I popped on to check in and hey, Eevee had claimed. So I proposed my plan, and then I had to go.

[shraeye]

What is happening!!??

[Eevee]

ITT we have Robz freaking out at L-8.

[Robz888]

vote: Robz

If he's really a vig, he wouldn't offer to shoot, given town!Robz's EXTREME stance on vigs shooting, especially N1.

That's basically a Robz tenet at this point.  No way he'd offer to shoot if he's a real town vig.

THIS IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT; WE HAD A SCUM POOL OF ONE IN THREE PEOPLE.

[Galzria]

Can we get a Robz lynch without me claiming?

I'm game. Vote: Robz. That vig was ridiculous.

[Axxle]

Is bulletproof the only possibility?

[shraeye]

I think I've figured it out.  Will reread to check.

For now
Vote: Robbz

[ashersky]

votes are reset to 0 on everyone

thread unlocked

Reminder that votes reset, so just me and Galz on Robz now.

[Robz888]

Can we get a Robz lynch without me claiming?

I'm game. Vote: Robz. That vig was ridiculous.

Why was it ridiculous? Jo and Eevee plotted to kill me as fast as they could, before I could do anything. And since I know scum is Galz or Eevee (well, according to Insomniac), and Galz had not been counterclaimed, it seemed like shooting Eevee was the right thing to do.

[Robz888]

If Eevee is bulletproof, that makes Galzria scum. Vote: Galzria

[ashersky]

Can we get a Robz lynch without me claiming?

I'm game. Vote: Robz. That vig was ridiculous.

Why was it ridiculous? Jo and Eevee plotted to kill me as fast as they could, before I could do anything. And since I know scum is Galz or Eevee (well, according to Insomniac), and Galz had not been counterclaimed, it seemed like shooting Eevee was the right thing to do.

You really think the odds were better that two out of three random names were vigs (you and Galz)?  I'd say you sort of counterclaimed him when you stated you were ALSO a vig.

A VIG WHICH SHOT ON D1, BTW.  YOU MAY NEVER EVER EVER TELL A VIG NOT TO SHOOT ON N1 IN A GAME EVER AGAIN.

[cayvie]

Vote Count 1.2

Robz888 (3): ashersky, Galzria, shraeye
Galzria (1): Robz888

Not Voting (12): Archetype, sparky5856, Grujah, Voltgloss, Insomniac, Cuzz, jimmmmm, Axxle, Eevee, jotheonah, Lekkit, yuma

With 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch.

[Robz888]

Let's think this through. Insomniac says me, Galzria, or Eevee has a qt. I say it's not me; Galzria fullclaims no qt; Eevee says it's not him. So presto, one scum between us, because there is a liar.

Then I claimed dayvig. If I were scum, why would I do this? Because it makes it 50% likely that the scum is me just based on the roles. And obviously I would know that my vigging would not hit scum, because the scum is me. Which is what happened.

So... isn't the better explanation that I simply didn't know there was a dayvig scum?

[shraeye]

If Eevee is bulletproof, that makes Galzria scum. Vote: Galzria

But no.

My drunk take on things is this.  Ashersky is wrong, there are two vigs, Robz and Galz are vigs.  I don't care what 'odds are' it's what happened.  Even '1 in a million' happens once in a million tries.

Robz shot eevee because his best chance for living was to hit scum.  Given that Galz is apparently not on Robz's team and has claimed Vig, Robz believes that Galz is actually the strongman vig.  that is why he shoots Eevee.  Shooting before waiting for Eevee to claim was terrible, but it was a scum move banking on eevee hopefully also being scum.  Now that that has failed he's focusing on Galz.  This is play of caught scum.  My vote stands.

[Axxle]

Vote: Galz

This seems right.

[Robz888]

Can we get a Robz lynch without me claiming?

I'm game. Vote: Robz. That vig was ridiculous.

Why was it ridiculous? Jo and Eevee plotted to kill me as fast as they could, before I could do anything. And since I know scum is Galz or Eevee (well, according to Insomniac), and Galz had not been counterclaimed, it seemed like shooting Eevee was the right thing to do.

You really think the odds were better that two out of three random names were vigs (you and Galz)?  I'd say you sort of counterclaimed him when you stated you were ALSO a vig.

A VIG WHICH SHOT ON D1, BTW.  YOU MAY NEVER EVER EVER TELL A VIG NOT TO SHOOT ON N1 IN A GAME EVER AGAIN.

Ashersky, this makes no sense. Galz and I did not counterclaim each other. Do you even understand the setup? Here are all the possibilities: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6168.0

It wasn't three random names; it was three people, exactly, one of which were scum unless Insomniac was pulling the weirdest gambit in Forum Mafia history. And since one of them was me, I had it down to a 50% chance. A 50% chance vig can take his shot, sure.

Still, I would have discussed it first, but Jo specifically demanded my quicklynch and a bunch of people acquiesced.

I don't think I'm crazy here.

[Robz888]

If Eevee is bulletproof, that makes Galzria scum. Vote: Galzria

But no.

My drunk take on things is this.  Ashersky is wrong, there are two vigs, Robz and Galz are vigs.  I don't care what 'odds are' it's what happened.  Even '1 in a million' happens once in a million tries.

Robz shot eevee because his best chance for living was to hit scum.  Given that Galz is apparently not on Robz's team and has claimed Vig, Robz believes that Galz is actually the strongman vig.  that is why he shoots Eevee.  Shooting before waiting for Eevee to claim was terrible, but it was a scum move banking on eevee hopefully also being scum.  Now that that has failed he's focusing on Galz.  This is play of caught scum.  My vote stands.

But Galz isn't a confirmed Vig. I am a confirmed vig. Now, I could be scum vig. But I am a vig for sure. I just did it!

I shot Eevee because he didn't claim and Galzria did, making Eevee more likely scum. And also, Eevee was trying to get me killed before I could react.

[Robz888]

Eevee, sorry I wasted my shot on you. I'm glad you didn't die though (unless you are some totally OP major arcana bulletproof scum, in which case, GG).

But do you see why I did? You were trying to kill me before I could use my shot, obviously I wasn't going to let that happen. Glad you're safe though.

From an objective standpoint, this is the most interesting Day 1 ever.

[Lekkit]

Actually Robz story makes sense. If you do not count that he "didn't know" the dayvig could be scum. Now I'm even more confused than before.

[Eevee]

Robz, YOU WERE AT L-5. You are definitely being crazy, why not just post "guys, i'm here and want to talk" if you were worried enough people were magically going to appear and quicklynch you?

[ashersky]

You really think the odds were better that two out of three random names were vigs (you and Galz)?  I'd say you sort of counterclaimed him when you stated you were ALSO a vig.

A VIG WHICH SHOT ON D1, BTW.  YOU MAY NEVER EVER EVER TELL A VIG NOT TO SHOOT ON N1 IN A GAME EVER AGAIN.

Ashersky, this makes no sense. Galz and I did not counterclaim each other. Do you even understand the setup? Here are all the possibilities: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6168.0

It wasn't three random names; it was three people, exactly, one of which were scum unless Insomniac was pulling the weirdest gambit in Forum Mafia history. And since one of them was me, I had it down to a 50% chance. A 50% chance vig can take his shot, sure.

Still, I would have discussed it first, but Jo specifically demanded my quicklynch and a bunch of people acquiesced.

I don't think I'm crazy here.

So you claim to know and understand the set-up well now?  After you just said "derp I didn't know there was a scum dayvig"?  So which is it?  Set-up expert (normal Robz) or didn't know the set-up (your excuse that I'm not buying).

Separately, on my point, my understanding was insom chose three people to investigate, found out one of them had a QT.  What are the odds in this set-up that a randomly chosen three people would contain two separate vigs?

[Robz888]

Actually Robz story makes sense. If you do not count that he "didn't know" the dayvig could be scum. Now I'm even more confused than before.

Look, I read the thing quickly, there are a million different roles. I'm truly sorry for that.

But... the only thing that would have happened differently had I known about the scum dayvig is that I would have been way more reluctant to claim anything (because I would have realized it was going to look bad, me having a 50% chance scum role in a 33% chance scum group of people).

[Galzria]

You do realize that voting me is voting a provable power, since my shot cannot be blocked in any fashion. There's only 1 Strong-Man in the game, unlike Robz' role, which has both Town, and Scum options.

[Robz888]

You really think the odds were better that two out of three random names were vigs (you and Galz)?  I'd say you sort of counterclaimed him when you stated you were ALSO a vig.

A VIG WHICH SHOT ON D1, BTW.  YOU MAY NEVER EVER EVER TELL A VIG NOT TO SHOOT ON N1 IN A GAME EVER AGAIN.

Ashersky, this makes no sense. Galz and I did not counterclaim each other. Do you even understand the setup? Here are all the possibilities: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6168.0

It wasn't three random names; it was three people, exactly, one of which were scum unless Insomniac was pulling the weirdest gambit in Forum Mafia history. And since one of them was me, I had it down to a 50% chance. A 50% chance vig can take his shot, sure.

Still, I would have discussed it first, but Jo specifically demanded my quicklynch and a bunch of people acquiesced.

I don't think I'm crazy here.

So you claim to know and understand the set-up well now?  After you just said "derp I didn't know there was a scum dayvig"?  So which is it?  Set-up expert (normal Robz) or didn't know the set-up (your excuse that I'm not buying).

Separately, on my point, my understanding was insom chose three people to investigate, found out one of them had a QT.  What are the odds in this set-up that a randomly chosen three people would contain two separate vigs?

What do you mean, what are the odds? 2 of those people are confirmed bp townie and dayshot vig, respectively. Who cares what the odds are, it's what happened.

[Robz888]

You do realize that voting me is voting a provable power, since my shot cannot be blocked in any fashion. There's only 1 Strong-Man in the game, unlike Robz' role, which has both Town, and Scum options.

You're just going to do your team's scum kill or whatever. If Eevee's not scum and Insomniac is not lying, you are scum.

[Galzria]

Actually Robz story makes sense. If you do not count that he "didn't know" the dayvig could be scum. Now I'm even more confused than before.

Look, I read the thing quickly, there are a million different roles. I'm truly sorry for that.

But... the only thing that would have happened differently had I known about the scum dayvig is that I would have been way more reluctant to claim anything (because I would have realized it was going to look bad, me having a 50% chance scum role in a 33% chance scum group of people).

So you read quickly to see if there was a town version of your role that you could claim?

[Galzria]

You do realize that voting me is voting a provable power, since my shot cannot be blocked in any fashion. There's only 1 Strong-Man in the game, unlike Robz' role, which has both Town, and Scum options.

You're just going to do your team's scum kill or whatever. If Eevee's not scum and Insomniac is not lying, you are scum.

Faction kills can be blocked. I can not. /Whooooooosh! That's the sound of Robz magically not knowing the setup again! Convenient to forget when it doesn't suit him, it seems.

[Robz888]

EEVEE!

Robz, YOU WERE AT L-5. You are definitely being crazy, why not just post "guys, i'm here and want to talk" if you were worried enough people were magically going to appear and quicklynch you?

Here's what I saw:

Yeah, totally leaving out the scum dayvig + having said mum since then ... I'm warming to a Vote: Robz.

Dare I suggest trying to quickwagon him before he gets online to vig a townie? I think it's very likely he is scum..

Sweet let's do this. Everybody vote Robz quickly!

Dare I suggest trying to quickwagon him before he gets online to vig a townie? I think it's very likely he is scum..

If he's not, you understand that I'm shooting you, correct?

Not that I disagree, mind you. Vote: Robz even.

But unless Insomniac is lying scum (possible), then if Robz is town, and I'm town, you must be scum.

If, as I suspect, Robz flips scum, then I'll choose more carefully.

Vote: Robz

Users active in past 15 minutes, who are playing this game:
jotheonah, Galzria, Eevee, Lekkit, Jimmmmm, shraeye, ashersky

At that point, I stopped reading and vigged you.

[Robz888]

You do realize that voting me is voting a provable power, since my shot cannot be blocked in any fashion. There's only 1 Strong-Man in the game, unlike Robz' role, which has both Town, and Scum options.

You're just going to do your team's scum kill or whatever. If Eevee's not scum and Insomniac is not lying, you are scum.

Faction kills can be blocked. I can not. /Whooooooosh! That's the sound of Robz magically not knowing the setup again! Convenient to forget when it doesn't suit him, it seems.

But who cares if you can be blocked or not? We don't know if anyone can or would block you (town-aligned or scum). So it's not like this ironclad defense, you understand? If your kill goes through, it doesn't confirm you as strongman.

[Axxle]

You do realize that voting me is voting a provable power, since my shot cannot be blocked in any fashion. There's only 1 Strong-Man in the game, unlike Robz' role, which has both Town, and Scum options.

Unvote

I think there are plenty of things you can do to make it look like a strongman kill if you gamble a bit.  I want to revote when I have more rest though.

[Eevee]

Looking at the setup there could only be two dayvigs, and one of them is a werewolf. Which basically leaves Robz with 50% chance of being a fuzzy dayvig rather than a towny one.

Everything is 50-50 by this logic, "either it happens or it doesnt happen". Robz's behavior and how he would play different roles (and Insomniac's intel) obviously matters a ton here.

Um, I'm a little confused.

Where is the Wizard?

It's speculated he means Magician.

I'm increasingly convinced that Robz is town and Galz is scum.

Then name my kill, and I promise you they'll wake up dead. Period.  (Yes, that was intentional)

This is a TERRIBLE plan.

Um, I'm a little confused.

Where is the Wizard?

It's speculated he means Magician.

I'm increasingly convinced that Robz is town and Galz is scum.

Why? The other way around for me, the plan we deviced just cornered Galz completely if he is scum..

Comment on this, Axxle? Why is Galzria scummier than Robz?

Beat up: Eevee

Sorry guys, you made me do this.

Derp. Admission of scumminess though?

Not at all. You flipping scum is the only way I can clear myself though.

I would have been happy to talk it over, but you seemed determine to quicklynch me while I was away instead.

Again, it wasnt like you had to vig someone asap because otherwise you would have been deprived a chance to speak your mind. Not at all.

Hold on hold on. Can I talk here before you quicklynch me? Jesus Christ.

Again, you were at L-8 at the time. So panicky!

[Eevee]

Robz, I dont think that's a reasonable town reaction.

[Eevee]

Robz, I dont think that's a reasonable town reaction.

And even if you are town, at least we got Galzria cornered.

[Robz888]

Robz, I dont think that's a reasonable town reaction.

And even if you are town, at least we got Galzria cornered.

You, Galz, Jo, Lekkit, and ashersky were voting for me. That's L-4, and then you specifically point out all the people not yet voting me who are online.

I mean look, I'm sorry, but if you don't me to react like that, don't suggest lynching me before I come back online.

[Robz888]

Although I think it's actually worked out for the best (sort of), because we know Galz is scum (well I know it, at least), and no one actually got mislynched or mis-vigged.

[Galzria]

Can we get a Robz lynch without me claiming?

I'm game. Vote: Robz. That vig was ridiculous.

Why was it ridiculous? Jo and Eevee plotted to kill me as fast as they could, before I could do anything. And since I know scum is Galz or Eevee (well, according to Insomniac), and Galz had not been counterclaimed, it seemed like shooting Eevee was the right thing to do.

Why? You were at freaking L-5. There weren't enough people around to quicklynch you. But you didn't hesitate. Why? Because if you're scum and already resigned to your fate, your best option is to shoot, and hope you find scum. If not, you were dead anyway. If you did find scum, then you got to live. It's win/win for your faction.

What really sold it as your faction not being town though was that you did this at L-5. Because here's the thing - let's assume for a moment you're town. You shoot Eevee, and - worst case - he flips town. Now you know I'm scum, but you're getting lynched. That's two town dead, and I get to use my claimed Vig before the town can lynch me.

Ah, but you're not town. Because if you were, the best thing to do would've been not shoot. Why? Because if I am scum and kill Eevee tonight, and he flips town, then I'm lynched tomorrow. That's a 2 to 1 trade instead of the above 3 to 1. If I'm scum, I can't kill town!Eevee without giving myself away. But if I don't, then I'm lynched for lying about my role. And that's a 1 to 1 trade. That ratio is only matched by town!Galzria shooting Scum!Eevee, which is what would've happened if you got lynched and flipped town.

See, your choosing to shoot, at L-5, had the single worst ratio of scum/town death rate if Eevee flipped town. Something Scum!Robz would attempt to take advantage of, but town!Robz would not. Your shot was simply ridiculous.

[Robz888]

Sweet let's do this. Everybody vote Robz quickly!

Five votes follow in rapid succession. But no, it was Robz who wasn't willing to have a civil discussion!

[Lekkit]

Allright. Will be gone for 24 hours. If the day ends before that and I die during the night I think Robz is most likely to be scum. If he's not it's a toss-up between Ins/Galz/Eevee, but Im to tired to actually reread what theyve said and try to make anything out of it.

[Robz888]

See, your choosing to shoot, at L-5, had the single worst ratio of scum/town death rate if Eevee flipped town. Something Scum!Robz would attempt to take advantage of, but town!Robz would not. Your shot was simply ridiculous.

I didn't think Eevee would flip town! I thought I had a closing window before my lynch to take a free shot at a probscum.

[Archetype]

Woah woah woah! Lots happened!

Uhh ok. So Eevee's the Bulletproof guy. He's now an IC now? Cool, so that narrows it down to Robz and Galzria.

There's the scumdayvig and the towndayvig. Robz tries to pass himself off as the towndayvig, but the way he used it seemed like he was in a rush, and would be worried that he wouldn't be able to use his dayvig. Towndayvig wouldn't have had to worry about that. Vigginig is often a negative utility, so it's not too big of a deal if they got lynched without using their dayvig.

Galzria is supposedly the Strongman (?) Vigilante, right? Well that really sucks. If he's scum, he's going to be shooting Eevee tonight. But I guess he couldn't for some WIFOM. Hmm.

I think I'm going to Vote: Robz. Galzria seems scarier as scum, but Robz's actions so far have been scummy, brash, and paranoid compared to Galz. And of course, if Robz flips town, we can always go after Galz.

If Galz then flips scum, then Insomniac has some explaining to do.

[Robz888]

Allright. Will be gone for 24 hours. If the day ends before that and I die during the night I think Robz is most likely to be scum. If he's not it's a toss-up between Ins/Galz/Eevee, but Im to tired to actually reread what theyve said and try to make anything out of it.

Then don't bother making accusations. It should be pretty clear Eevee is town now.

[Robz888]

There's the scumdayvig and the towndayvig. Robz tries to pass himself off as the towndayvig, but the way he used it seemed like he was in a rush, and would be worried that he wouldn't be able to use his dayvig. Towndayvig wouldn't have had to worry about that. Vigginig is often a negative utility, so it's not too big of a deal if they got lynched without using their dayvig.

Archetype, your powers of observation staggering, truly staggering! Once again:

Sweet let's do this. Everybody vote Robz quickly!

[shraeye]

Why? You were at freaking L-5. There weren't enough people around to quicklynch you. But you didn't hesitate. Why? Because if you're scum and already resigned to your fate, your best option is to shoot, and hope you find scum. If not, you were dead anyway. If you did find scum, then you got to live. It's win/win for your faction.

What really sold it as your faction not being town though was that you did this at L-5. Because here's the thing - let's assume for a moment you're town. You shoot Eevee, and - worst case - he flips town. Now you know I'm scum, but you're getting lynched. That's two town dead, and I get to use my claimed Vig before the town can lynch me.

Ah, but you're not town. Because if you were, the best thing to do would've been not shoot. Why? Because if I am scum and kill Eevee tonight, and he flips town, then I'm lynched tomorrow. That's a 2 to 1 trade instead of the above 3 to 1. If I'm scum, I can't kill town!Eevee without giving myself away. But if I don't, then I'm lynched for lying about my role. And that's a 1 to 1 trade. That ratio is only matched by town!Galzria shooting Scum!Eevee, which is what would've happened if you got lynched and flipped town.

See, your choosing to shoot, at L-5, had the single worst ratio of scum/town death rate if Eevee flipped town. Something Scum!Robz would attempt to take advantage of, but town!Robz would not. Your shot was simply ridiculous.

This makes sense to me.  I agree that Robz did not make a good action as a townplayer.

[Robz888]

Guys, you are all getting confused. It's not like I had to use the dayvig before I died, that's not the issue. The issue was, if I used my dayvig and was correct in killing scum, it would clear me because Insomniac says there is exactly one scum between me, Eevee, and Galz. I wasn't trying to get off my shot before I died, I was trying to kill the true mafia in that group of 3, which would have forestalled my lynch and cleared Galz. Only Eevee was not scum, which surprises me, but luckily he's bulletproof so we actually come out okay.

[ashersky]

Allright. Will be gone for 24 hours. If the day ends before that and I die during the night I think Robz is most likely to be scum. If he's not it's a toss-up between Ins/Galz/Eevee, but Im to tired to actually reread what theyve said and try to make anything out of it.

This says nothing, by the way.  You point out the four people we've been talking about the whole day and mention at least one might be scum.

Also, ninja'd by Robz.

[Archetype]

There's the scumdayvig and the towndayvig. Robz tries to pass himself off as the towndayvig, but the way he used it seemed like he was in a rush, and would be worried that he wouldn't be able to use his dayvig. Towndayvig wouldn't have had to worry about that. Vigginig is often a negative utility, so it's not too big of a deal if they got lynched without using their dayvig.

Archetype, your powers of observation staggering, truly staggering! Once again:

Sweet let's do this. Everybody vote Robz quickly!

You were at, what? L-8? L-5? You could have told them to just hold and it and talk with everyone about who you want to dayvig instead of just rushing into it. Thankfully, Eevee was Bulletproof, but still, if you flip Town, rushing into it like that was a bad idea.

[Robz888]

Why? You were at freaking L-5. There weren't enough people around to quicklynch you. But you didn't hesitate. Why? Because if you're scum and already resigned to your fate, your best option is to shoot, and hope you find scum. If not, you were dead anyway. If you did find scum, then you got to live. It's win/win for your faction.

What really sold it as your faction not being town though was that you did this at L-5. Because here's the thing - let's assume for a moment you're town. You shoot Eevee, and - worst case - he flips town. Now you know I'm scum, but you're getting lynched. That's two town dead, and I get to use my claimed Vig before the town can lynch me.

Ah, but you're not town. Because if you were, the best thing to do would've been not shoot. Why? Because if I am scum and kill Eevee tonight, and he flips town, then I'm lynched tomorrow. That's a 2 to 1 trade instead of the above 3 to 1. If I'm scum, I can't kill town!Eevee without giving myself away. But if I don't, then I'm lynched for lying about my role. And that's a 1 to 1 trade. That ratio is only matched by town!Galzria shooting Scum!Eevee, which is what would've happened if you got lynched and flipped town.

See, your choosing to shoot, at L-5, had the single worst ratio of scum/town death rate if Eevee flipped town. Something Scum!Robz would attempt to take advantage of, but town!Robz would not. Your shot was simply ridiculous.

This makes sense to me.  I agree that Robz did not make a good action as a townplayer.

Again:

Sweet let's do this. Everybody vote Robz quickly!

[Galzria]

Cayvie, would the Ace of Wands be immune to the King of Swords?

[Robz888]

There's the scumdayvig and the towndayvig. Robz tries to pass himself off as the towndayvig, but the way he used it seemed like he was in a rush, and would be worried that he wouldn't be able to use his dayvig. Towndayvig wouldn't have had to worry about that. Vigginig is often a negative utility, so it's not too big of a deal if they got lynched without using their dayvig.

Archetype, your powers of observation staggering, truly staggering! Once again:

Sweet let's do this. Everybody vote Robz quickly!

You were at, what? L-8? L-5? You could have told them to just hold and it and talk with everyone about who you want to dayvig instead of just rushing into it. Thankfully, Eevee was Bulletproof, but still, if you flip Town, rushing into it like that was a bad idea.

I was at L-4, Axxle had signaled intent to vote me, and then I stopped reading and quickly vigged.

[Robz888]

You were at, what? L-8? L-5? You could have told them to just hold and it and talk with everyone about who you want to dayvig instead of just rushing into it. Thankfully, Eevee was Bulletproof, but still, if you flip Town, rushing into it like that was a bad idea.

You think I WAS RUSHING?

Sweet let's do this. Everybody vote Robz quickly!

[ashersky]

Guys, you are all getting confused. It's not like I had to use the dayvig before I died, that's not the issue. The issue was, if I used my dayvig and was correct in killing scum, it would clear me because Insomniac says there is exactly one scum between me, Eevee, and Galz. I wasn't trying to get off my shot before I died, I was trying to kill the true mafia in that group of 3, which would have forestalled my lynch and cleared Galz. Only Eevee was not scum, which surprises me, but luckily he's bulletproof so we actually come out okay.

I will say Galz is pressing way harder than he normally would.  And if we believe insom, there's still scum to be found between Robz and Galz. 

So...Galz is killing someone tonight, because he's either the vig who wants to prove himself or scum, right?  So the risk there is he's scum and we leave him alive or he's town vig who kills someone who on his own...or he's the scum vig, and he's scum.  So 2 out of 3 chances he's scum...is that right?

Robz has no shots left anyway, scum or town, since the dayvigs are all one shots, unless I missed a card on that list.  So he's neutered scum goon, or VT.  So 1 in 2 chances he's scum?

So my math says 66.6% chance that Galz is scum and 50% chance Robz is scum?  Is that right or am I way off?

[shraeye]

yeah, because L-4 30 hours into Day1 is a really good time to assume you're going to get lynched

[Eevee]

Cayvie, would the Ace of Wands be immune to the King of Swords?

Edge cases, edge cases everywhere!

[cayvie]

Cayvie, would the Ace of Wands be immune to the King of Swords?

yes

[Robz888]

Guys, you are all getting confused. It's not like I had to use the dayvig before I died, that's not the issue. The issue was, if I used my dayvig and was correct in killing scum, it would clear me because Insomniac says there is exactly one scum between me, Eevee, and Galz. I wasn't trying to get off my shot before I died, I was trying to kill the true mafia in that group of 3, which would have forestalled my lynch and cleared Galz. Only Eevee was not scum, which surprises me, but luckily he's bulletproof so we actually come out okay.

I will say Galz is pressing way harder than he normally would.  And if we believe insom, there's still scum to be found between Robz and Galz. 

So...Galz is killing someone tonight, because he's either the vig who wants to prove himself or scum, right?  So the risk there is he's scum and we leave him alive or he's town vig who kills someone who on his own...or he's the scum vig, and he's scum.  So 2 out of 3 chances he's scum...is that right?

Robz has no shots left anyway, scum or town, since the dayvigs are all one shots, unless I missed a card on that list.  So he's neutered scum goon, or VT.  So 1 in 2 chances he's scum?

So my math says 66.6% chance that Galz is scum and 50% chance Robz is scum?  Is that right or am I way off?

There's just a 50% chance that I'm scum and a 50% chance that Galz is scum, based on Insomniac's information.

[Eevee]

Cayvie, would the Ace of Wands be immune to the King of Swords?

yes
[/quote
Would you give a QT to a serial killer? Some mods do.

[Archetype]

There's the scumdayvig and the towndayvig. Robz tries to pass himself off as the towndayvig, but the way he used it seemed like he was in a rush, and would be worried that he wouldn't be able to use his dayvig. Towndayvig wouldn't have had to worry about that. Vigginig is often a negative utility, so it's not too big of a deal if they got lynched without using their dayvig.

Archetype, your powers of observation staggering, truly staggering! Once again:

Sweet let's do this. Everybody vote Robz quickly!

You were at, what? L-8? L-5? You could have told them to just hold and it and talk with everyone about who you want to dayvig instead of just rushing into it. Thankfully, Eevee was Bulletproof, but still, if you flip Town, rushing into it like that was a bad idea.

I was at L-4, Axxle had signaled intent to vote me, and then I stopped reading and quickly vigged.

Fair enough. I still don't think that was the best Town play. But if you were for sure Eevee was scum, then I guess you had to do it. I still think you should have talked it over. Like you, and many other people have said in various other games: Vigging is dangerous.

[Robz888]

yeah, because L-4 30 hours into Day1 is a really good time to assume you're going to get lynched

QUICK EVERYONE, KILL SHRAEYE BEFORE HE SPEAKS AGAIN.

Vote: shraeye
Vote: shraeye
Vote: shraeye
Vote: shraeye
Vote: shraeye

[Robz888]

End demonstration. Vote: Galzria

[Eevee]

Why are you trying to use math like that, people? The way Galz and Robz have acted matters WAY more than how many possible roles there are in the setup. Basically, both are claiming x, and either are that or are lying. Yes or no. Our job is to determine which is lying based on their behavior and such. I think it's Robz.

[Archetype]

You were at, what? L-8? L-5? You could have told them to just hold and it and talk with everyone about who you want to dayvig instead of just rushing into it. Thankfully, Eevee was Bulletproof, but still, if you flip Town, rushing into it like that was a bad idea.

You think I WAS RUSHING?

Sweet let's do this. Everybody vote Robz quickly!

Ok, I agree that Jo pressuring you like that was preeeeetty crappy, but if you are scum, I think that it was the right thing to do.

[Robz888]

There's the scumdayvig and the towndayvig. Robz tries to pass himself off as the towndayvig, but the way he used it seemed like he was in a rush, and would be worried that he wouldn't be able to use his dayvig. Towndayvig wouldn't have had to worry about that. Vigginig is often a negative utility, so it's not too big of a deal if they got lynched without using their dayvig.

Archetype, your powers of observation staggering, truly staggering! Once again:

Sweet let's do this. Everybody vote Robz quickly!

You were at, what? L-8? L-5? You could have told them to just hold and it and talk with everyone about who you want to dayvig instead of just rushing into it. Thankfully, Eevee was Bulletproof, but still, if you flip Town, rushing into it like that was a bad idea.

I was at L-4, Axxle had signaled intent to vote me, and then I stopped reading and quickly vigged.

Fair enough. I still don't think that was the best Town play. But if you were for sure Eevee was scum, then I guess you had to do it. I still think you should have talked it over. Like you, and many other people have said in various other games: Vigging is dangerous.

Yes, but you have to think about what makes it dangerous.

In the early game, in a large game, if a Vig shoots night 1, it's not actually that dangerous. The game probably doesn't hinge on it. The thing is, you just are probably going to kill town. So it's not super dangerous, but it's probably not good. Late-game, it can be good, because you have more information, but it is way more dangerous.

So what we had here was a very, very unique circumstance where it wasn't particularly dangerous--this was early game--but we had good information--a 1 in 2 chance of hitting scum, from my perspective. I know I am Mr. Anti-Vig, but I think it's fairly reasonable that this is an edge case here. This is like Counting House on a Mountebank board or something.

[Robz888]

Ignore the above, here it is fixed:

Yes, but you have to think about what makes it dangerous.

In the early game, in a large game, if a Vig shoots night 1, it's not actually that dangerous. The game probably doesn't hinge on it. The thing is, you just are probably going to kill town. So it's not super dangerous, but it's probably not good. Late-game, it can be good, because you have more information, but it is way more dangerous.

So what we had here was a very, very unique circumstance where it wasn't particularly dangerous--this was early game--but we had good information--a 1 in 2 chance of hitting scum, from my perspective. I know I am Mr. Anti-Vig, but I think it's fairly reasonable that this is an edge case here. This is like Counting House on a Mountebank board or something.

[Galzria]

Cayvie, would the Ace of Wands be immune to the King of Swords?

yes

Then from my perspective:

Town!Robz would kill all iterations of Town!Eevee except Nine of Swords. But cannot both be town, so this does not work.

Scum!Robz can not kill Eevee if Eevee is the 5 of Swords (Town!Eevee), or the Ace of Swords (SK!Eevee).

There is no world where Eevee is scum, and Robz is town. Ergo from my perspective, it's proven that Robz is scum. The problem town faces, is that Eevee has a 50% chance of being a SK.

Town: I suggest we lynch Robz, and I'll still NK Eevee. This cannot be stopped. I believe the reason Eevee agreed to this earlier is that he's the Ace of Swords, and he knew that one of two things was true: Robz was scum, and would flip such, making me inclined not to shoot him, OR, Robz was town, meaning I was lying scum, and could not Strong-Man Big him. In either case, he was likely safe.

If town does not wish to follow this plan, I'm willing to lynch myself. You lose my NK, but you have one confirmed scum (Robz), and one likely in Eevee (although not guaranteed. I suggest he gets Copped).

[ashersky]

In the early game, in a large game, if a Vig shoots night 1, it's not actually that dangerous. The game probably doesn't hinge on it. The thing is, you just are probably going to kill town. So it's not super dangerous, but it's probably not good. Late-game, it can be good, because you have more information, but it is way more dangerous.

So what we had here was a very, very unique circumstance where it wasn't particularly dangerous--this was early game--but we had good information--a 1 in 2 chance of hitting scum, from my perspective. I know I am Mr. Anti-Vig, but I think it's fairly reasonable that this is an edge case here. This is like Counting House on a Mountebank board or something.

I assume this was you talking.

This is completely at odds with Robz888.  Do you not remember your rage at vigs shooting N1?  Look at MXVII D1.  Look at every other game with a vig.  Look at you still blaming me for town's loss in Waffle Mafia.  You do not support vigs shooting D1.  Hence, you come off really scummy today having claimed Vig, shot as a Vig, and not articulating reasoning for why it's okay to shoot D1 or N1.

You have come off your own rails, man.  It's like you are purposefully trying to change your meta to throw us off...oh wait.

[ashersky]

Town: I suggest we lynch Robz, and I'll still NK Eevee. This cannot be stopped. I believe the reason Eevee agreed to this earlier is that he's the Ace of Swords, and he knew that one of two things was true: Robz was scum, and would flip such, making me inclined not to shoot him, OR, Robz was town, meaning I was lying scum, and could not Strong-Man Big him. In either case, he was likely safe.

I'm okay with this, with the caveat that we lynch you D2 if things go fishy.

[Archetype]

Why are you trying to use math like that, people? The way Galz and Robz have acted matters WAY more than how many possible roles there are in the setup. Basically, both are claiming x, and either are that or are lying. Yes or no. Our job is to determine which is lying based on their behavior and such. I think it's Robz.

And if we lynch one and he turns up Town, then we lynch the other.

If Robz turns up town, lynching him wouldn't be too big of a loss. He would be essentially a VT, and that would be better than losing Galzria if he's the Town Vig.

Also, if Robz turns up Town, Eevee's an IC.

[Robz888]

In the early game, in a large game, if a Vig shoots night 1, it's not actually that dangerous. The game probably doesn't hinge on it. The thing is, you just are probably going to kill town. So it's not super dangerous, but it's probably not good. Late-game, it can be good, because you have more information, but it is way more dangerous.

So what we had here was a very, very unique circumstance where it wasn't particularly dangerous--this was early game--but we had good information--a 1 in 2 chance of hitting scum, from my perspective. I know I am Mr. Anti-Vig, but I think it's fairly reasonable that this is an edge case here. This is like Counting House on a Mountebank board or something.

I assume this was you talking.

This is completely at odds with Robz888.  Do you not remember your rage at vigs shooting N1?  Look at MXVII D1.  Look at every other game with a vig.  Look at you still blaming me for town's loss in Waffle Mafia.  You do not support vigs shooting D1.  Hence, you come off really scummy today having claimed Vig, shot as a Vig, and not articulating reasoning for why it's okay to shoot D1 or N1.

You have come off your own rails, man.  It's like you are purposefully trying to change your meta to throw us off...oh wait.

In Waffle Mafia, if you had reliable information somehow that either Cayvie or Grujah were mafia for sure, then I would not have blamed you for shooting Cayvie. You didn't have that then, but I had that here.

[Galzria]

Crickets

Where did everybody go? No thoughts on the above?

[Robz888]

I guess the objective best plan (best if you don't know that I am not scum), is to lynch me, have Galzria shoot Insomniac, and lynch Galzria tomorrow depending on my flip and Insomniac's. A redirector could mess up the Insomniac part, though.

[Eevee]

I guess the objective best plan (best if you don't know that I am not scum), is to lynch me, have Galzria shoot Insomniac, and lynch Galzria tomorrow depending on my flip and Insomniac's. A redirector could mess up the Insomniac part, though.

Uh no strongmaning claimed major arcanas!? We dont know he has told us everything about his role..

Galzria yes and will comment when I get a break from the poker action.

[Robz888]

Blargh. Galzria is scum unless Insomniac did something crazy (that is totally working). What can I say to convince you people?

I actually care more about convincing you that my play was not bad, because my pride is wounded (if Voltgloss scolds me, I will cry).

[Cuzz]

What the actual f**k?

Most absurd D1 ever.

Can we get a 100% fully detailed claim from Insomniac please? Or did I miss something?

[Galzria]

Blargh. Galzria is scum unless Insomniac did something crazy (that is totally working). What can I say to convince you people?

I actually care more about convincing you that my play was not bad, because my pride is wounded (if Voltgloss scolds me, I will cry).

Willing to lynch myself right now to prove you 100% scum, buddy, so don't give me this line about hurt pride.

[Robz888]

Blargh. Galzria is scum unless Insomniac did something crazy (that is totally working). What can I say to convince you people?

I actually care more about convincing you that my play was not bad, because my pride is wounded (if Voltgloss scolds me, I will cry).

Willing to lynch myself right now to prove you 100% scum, buddy, so don't give me this line about hurt pride.

Agreed. Then do it. Vote for yourself.

[Robz888]

Come on Galz, where's the self-vote? Let's see it, please.

[Eevee]

Come on Galz, where's the self-vote? Let's see it, please.

And don't forget to bold it! /zing


(Kidding, don't do it.)

[Robz888]

Come on Galz, where's the self-vote? Let's see it, please.

And don't forget to bold it! /zing


(Kidding, don't do it.)

Why shouldn't he, if he is so convinced? Let's see it.

[Galzria]

Once the town (sorry Robz, your voice counts for nothing here) decides on the below, I'll be happy to. Until then, there's little point arguing with scum attempting to goad along a lynch.

Cayvie, would the Ace of Wands be immune to the King of Swords?

yes

Then from my perspective:

Town!Robz would kill all iterations of Town!Eevee except Nine of Swords. But cannot both be town, so this does not work.

Scum!Robz can not kill Eevee if Eevee is the 5 of Swords (Town!Eevee), or the Ace of Swords (SK!Eevee).

There is no world where Eevee is scum, and Robz is town. Ergo from my perspective, it's proven that Robz is scum. The problem town faces, is that Eevee has a 50% chance of being a SK.

Town: I suggest we lynch Robz, and I'll still NK Eevee. This cannot be stopped. I believe the reason Eevee agreed to this earlier is that he's the Ace of Swords, and he knew that one of two things was true: Robz was scum, and would flip such, making me inclined not to shoot him, OR, Robz was town, meaning I was lying scum, and could not Strong-Man Big him. In either case, he was likely safe.

If town does not wish to follow this plan, I'm willing to lynch myself. You lose my NK, but you have one confirmed scum (Robz), and one likely in Eevee (although not guaranteed. I suggest he gets Copped).

[Robz888]

Galzria, are you entirely discounting the possibility that Insomniac is scum just causing mayhem? I'm not entirely discounting it.

[Robz888]

If we lose a bulletproof townie and 2 town vigs before we realize he's scum, this was a ridiculous success.

[Robz888]

If we lose a bulletproof townie and 2 town vigs before we realize he's scum, this was a ridiculous success.

A success from Insomniac's perspective.

[Archetype]

I say don't do it. We lynch Robz and see his flip. If he's scum, then I guess Eevee's not a confirmed Townie and then Galzria is in the clear.

If he's Town, Eevee is an IC, and it doesn't matter what we suggest. Scum!Galzria will do whatever he wants, and then we lynch him tommorow. If he really is scum, he'll NK Eevee, eliminating our IC, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Question: (for cayvie ir whoever can help me understand this) is there a scum 1-shot Strongman Vigilante? Or is it just a Town 1-shot Strongman Vigilante?

[Robz888]

I say don't do it. We lynch Robz and see his flip. If he's scum, then I guess Eevee's not a confirmed Townie and then Galzria is in the clear.

If he's Town, Eevee is an IC, and it doesn't matter what we suggest. Scum!Galzria will do whatever he wants, and then we lynch him tommorow. If he really is scum, he'll NK Eevee, eliminating our IC, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Question: (for cayvie ir whoever can help me understand this) is there a scum 1-shot Strongman Vigilante? Or is it just a Town 1-shot Strongman Vigilante?

STOP. Will you just pay attention before you talk? Eevee is bulletproof. Galz can't kill him.

Your question is easily answered if you read the setup.

[Archetype]

Galzria, are you entirely discounting the possibility that Insomniac is scum just causing mayhem? I'm not entirely discounting it.

Neither am I. I mean, that's pretty luck of him if it's true. Hitting 2 Vigs and 1 Bulletproof? That some insane stuff right there.

But if he is scum, I don't think Wizard does what he said does anyway. The power itself sounds a bit wacky tbh, but I guess it's a Major Arcana, so it's supposed to be like that.

[Galzria]

I say don't do it. We lynch Robz and see his flip. If he's scum, then I guess Eevee's not a confirmed Townie and then Galzria is in the clear.

If he's Town, Eevee is an IC, and it doesn't matter what we suggest. Scum!Galzria will do whatever he wants, and then we lynch him tommorow. If he really is scum, he'll NK Eevee, eliminating our IC, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Question: (for cayvie ir whoever can help me understand this) is there a scum 1-shot Strongman Vigilante? Or is it just a Town 1-shot Strongman Vigilante?

STOP. Will you just pay attention before you talk? Eevee is bulletproof. Galz can't kill him.

Your question is easily answered if you read the setup.

A) You already hit Eevee, removing any Bullet-Proof he had unless he's a WW immune SK.

B) Even if you hadn't, my Strongman goes through everything.

[Archetype]

I say don't do it. We lynch Robz and see his flip. If he's scum, then I guess Eevee's not a confirmed Townie and then Galzria is in the clear.

If he's Town, Eevee is an IC, and it doesn't matter what we suggest. Scum!Galzria will do whatever he wants, and then we lynch him tommorow. If he really is scum, he'll NK Eevee, eliminating our IC, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Question: (for cayvie ir whoever can help me understand this) is there a scum 1-shot Strongman Vigilante? Or is it just a Town 1-shot Strongman Vigilante?

Your question is easily answered if you read the setup.
[/b]
I'm surprised you say that seeing how much you've supposedly 'forgotten' about the setup over the course of D1. It's a bit hypocritical if you ask me.

[Robz888]

His bulletproof is gone??? Why? It's not 1-shot bulletproof.

[Archetype]

I say don't do it. We lynch Robz and see his flip. If he's scum, then I guess Eevee's not a confirmed Townie and then Galzria is in the clear.

If he's Town, Eevee is an IC, and it doesn't matter what we suggest. Scum!Galzria will do whatever he wants, and then we lynch him tommorow. If he really is scum, he'll NK Eevee, eliminating our IC, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Question: (for cayvie ir whoever can help me understand this) is there a scum 1-shot Strongman Vigilante? Or is it just a Town 1-shot Strongman Vigilante?

Your question is easily answered if you read the setup.

I'm surprised you say that seeing how much you've supposedly 'forgotten' about the setup over the course of D1. It's a bit hypocritical if you ask me.

Quotes fixed.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm reasonably happy with a Robz lynch at this point. If he flips Town, then that clears Eevee (correct me if I'm wrong, I suppose he could be some sort of Major role) and we turn to Galz/Insom, and if he flips scum that clears Eevee and Galz (unless Insom is scum).

Any non-Robz disagreements?

[Robz888]

Stop. Halt. Desist.

[Jimmmmm]

cayvie, can we get some clarification on the Nine of Wands role?

According to the mafiascum wiki:

Bulletproof is a role modifier that allows a player to avoid being killed at Night.

Should we assume this extends to dayvigs as well?
Is there any reason not to assume it's not x-shot?

[Archetype]

Normal Bulletproof is just 'Bulletproof X' If it's X-shot in anyway, it would read 'X-shot Bulletproof Y'. So yes, It should be safe to assume Eevee's Bulletproof ( if he isnt the serial killer) is unlimited. Double checking with cayvie wouldn't hurt though.

[Eevee]

I propose we wait for Insomniac to get online to clarify everything, then lynch Robz (hopefully see him flip scum), and see what happens. I havent claimed anything yet. In case Robz is town and Galz is scum, speculating my role and various outcomes seems stupid because we'd just be telling him what to do.

[Eevee]

I have clarified everything with cayvie and know my role though.

[Eevee]

Vote: Robz btw.

Sorry I've been a little absent this morning, lots of poker stuff happening.

[Archetype]

Normal Bulletproof is just 'Bulletproof X' If it's X-shot in anyway, it would read 'X-shot Bulletproof Y'. So yes, It should be safe to assume Eevee's Bulletproof ( if he isnt the serial killer) is unlimited. Double checking with cayvie wouldn't hurt though.

No clue if it would apply to dayvigs. You'd think it would.

[Eevee]

Stop. Halt. Desist.

What is this about?

[Jimmmmm]

Normal Bulletproof is just 'Bulletproof X' If it's X-shot in anyway, it would read 'X-shot Bulletproof Y'. So yes, It should be safe to assume Eevee's Bulletproof ( if he isnt the serial killer) is unlimited. Double checking with cayvie wouldn't hurt though.

No clue if it would apply to dayvigs. You'd think it would.

You'd think so yes, but it only talks about night protection, and I'm assuming this is where we're getting our roles from when not specified here.

And I agree with waiting for Insom to weigh in before we lynch Robz.

[Archetype]

Stop. Halt. Desist.

What is this about?

[Archetype]

Stop. Halt. Desist.

What is this about?

No clue. I thought he was going to do some big reveal, but he's offline now.

[Eevee]

I would really like for Robz to flip scum too. Having Galzria as a confirmed townie is.. pretty good.

Also, I'd instruct some investigative tool to check Insomniac tonight. His role might be very powerful, so it would be extra useful to know if he is with town or not. Robz's suggestion of vigging him tonight is something I just cant understand.. he claimed a major arcana ffs! But if it was scum Robz being desperate, maybe I dont need to understand. Still, it's important to remember in a two scum team game he isn't a confirmed townie even if we catch scum with his intel. I actually don't think it tells anything of his alignment yet, although obviously finding scum for us is very pro town.

And Ins, the questions for you were a) what's your actual card b) what do you think of the developments and c) anything else you think you should claim about your role today before we lynch Robz?

[ashersky]

Normal Bulletproof is just 'Bulletproof X' If it's X-shot in anyway, it would read 'X-shot Bulletproof Y'. So yes, It should be safe to assume Eevee's Bulletproof ( if he isnt the serial killer) is unlimited. Double checking with cayvie wouldn't hurt though.

No clue if it would apply to dayvigs. You'd think it would.

You'd think so yes, but it only talks about night protection, and I'm assuming this is where we're getting our roles from when not specified here.

And I agree with waiting for Insom to weigh in before we lynch Robz.

Agree we need Insom to weigh in.  I do think lynch Robz, use his flip to confirm if Eevee is IC, then lynch Galz tomorrow after he NKs Insom makes the most sense.

At worst, we lose a VT in the neutered Robz, I think, since if he's town and Eevee's town, Galz is scum, unless Insom is lying scum, which we will know when Galz kills him, right?  And if Insom is lying, we lose the VT and save both IC Eevee and don't have to lynch town vig Galz D2 after all.

Or am I missing something?

[cayvie]

cayvie, can we get some clarification on the Nine of Wands role?

no

[Eevee]

I dont follow, not at all ashersky. Why would we want to kill Insomniac!?

Fwiw, all this planning is going to be useless if Robz just flips scum like I expect him to.

[Jimmmmm]

cayvie, can we get some clarification on the Nine of Wands role?

no

So basically this is a closed setup with a bunch of roles with familiar names but no guarantee that they do what we think they do.

[Eevee]

I propose we wait for Insomniac to get online to clarify everything, then lynch Robz (hopefully see him flip scum), and see what happens. I havent claimed anything yet. In case Robz is town and Galz is scum, speculating my role and various outcomes seems stupid because we'd just be telling him what to do.

[cayvie]

cayvie, can we get some clarification on the Nine of Wands role?

no

So basically this is a closed setup with a bunch of roles with familiar names but no guarantee that they do what we think they do.

pretty much

i probably shouldn't have answered galz's question

[cayvie]

i mean, this isn't a bastard game

"bulletproof townie" isn't going to be the name of a cop or anything

but no, the exact details of how people's roles function are not public

[ashersky]

I dont follow, not at all ashersky. Why would we want to kill Insomniac!?

Fwiw, all this planning is going to be useless if Robz just flips scum like I expect him to.

In case he's lying, basically.

We do need clarification on his role, though.  Like, can he do it again?  Is he a bad guy?  That kind of stuff.

[Eevee]

I dont follow, not at all ashersky. Why would we want to kill Insomniac!?

Fwiw, all this planning is going to be useless if Robz just flips scum like I expect him to.

In case he's lying, basically.

We do need clarification on his role, though.  Like, can he do it again?  Is he a bad guy?  That kind of stuff.

We don't just vig a super power role because he might be lying!? As I said, I highly encourage investigating him though.

[Jimmmmm]

i mean, this isn't a bastard game

"bulletproof townie" isn't going to be the name of a cop or anything

but no, the exact details of how people's roles function are not public

Okay, I appreciate your response.

[ashersky]

I dont follow, not at all ashersky. Why would we want to kill Insomniac!?

Fwiw, all this planning is going to be useless if Robz just flips scum like I expect him to.

In case he's lying, basically.

We do need clarification on his role, though.  Like, can he do it again?  Is he a bad guy?  That kind of stuff.

We don't just vig a super power role because he might be lying!? As I said, I highly encourage investigating him though.

I just realized, with Insom out, there is only one more Major, right?  So if we only get one more claim, they are confirmed?

[Eevee]

I dont follow, not at all ashersky. Why would we want to kill Insomniac!?

Fwiw, all this planning is going to be useless if Robz just flips scum like I expect him to.

In case he's lying, basically.

We do need clarification on his role, though.  Like, can he do it again?  Is he a bad guy?  That kind of stuff.

We don't just vig a super power role because he might be lying!? As I said, I highly encourage investigating him though.

I just realized, with Insom out, there is only one more Major, right?  So if we only get one more claim, they are confirmed?

NOT FORCING OUR UBER POWER ROLES TO CLAIM, wtf?

Also, I think it's pretty clear Ins is a major arcana. It just isn't clear he is necessarily town-aligned.

[ashersky]

I dont follow, not at all ashersky. Why would we want to kill Insomniac!?

Fwiw, all this planning is going to be useless if Robz just flips scum like I expect him to.

In case he's lying, basically.

We do need clarification on his role, though.  Like, can he do it again?  Is he a bad guy?  That kind of stuff.

We don't just vig a super power role because he might be lying!? As I said, I highly encourage investigating him though.

I just realized, with Insom out, there is only one more Major, right?  So if we only get one more claim, they are confirmed?

NOT FORCING OUR UBER POWER ROLES TO CLAIM, wtf?

Also, I think it's pretty clear Ins is a major arcana. It just isn't clear he is necessarily town-aligned.

Obv not asking for a claim.  Just pointing it out for future reference.  Chill.

Why is it clear he's major?  I mean, his one post with one of these three has a QT thing with no back-up?

I mean, benefit of the doubt, and it's clearly got us all on a path, but we need more info.

[Eevee]

Well, I guess it could be a super weird scum gambit. Why oh why though? (Well, if he is a vanilla mafia or werewolf, it did turn out pretty darn dandy for him..)
Occam's razor, that's just not the kind of lie people tell unpressured day 1.

[Eevee]

Post counts:

Robz: 75
Eevee: 53
Galzria: 41
Lekkit: 30
ashersky: 25
Axxle: 23
Grujah: 22
yuma: 20
Insomniac: 18
Jimmm: 17
Archetype: 16
jotheonah: 13
shraeye: 13
Voltgloss: 9
sparky: 4

No surprises in the top three, Volt and especially sparky stand out in the bottom. This game hasn't really been on for that long even though a lot of stuff has happened, so I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt. Lekkit not likely to be LaL-lynched here, running 4th! This town doesn't seem to suffer from any lurker issues anyways, things have been progressing rather nicely.

Fwiw, Robz, Cuzz and Grujah thought Ins had investigated me and found scum. Grujah was even willing to put down a big bet!

[ashersky]

Post counts:

Robz: 75
Eevee: 53
Galzria: 41
Lekkit: 30
ashersky: 25
Axxle: 23
Grujah: 22
yuma: 20
Insomniac: 18
Jimmm: 17
Archetype: 16
jotheonah: 13
shraeye: 13
Voltgloss: 9
sparky: 4

No surprises in the top three, Volt and especially sparky stand out in the bottom. This game hasn't really been on for that long even though a lot of stuff has happened, so I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt. Lekkit not likely to be LaL-lynched here, running 4th! This town doesn't seem to suffer from any lurker issues anyways, things have been progressing rather nicely.

Fwiw, Robz, Cuzz and Grujah thought Ins had investigated me and found scum. Grujah was even willing to put down a big bet!

Dude, sparky and volt, come on guys.  Shraeye and Jo too.

[Jimmmmm]

Post counts:

[...]

Insomniac: 18 9

Insomniac has both his Goko and iso usernames listed, so if you're not careful it can seem like he has twice as many votes as he has. Just for correctness sake.

[Eevee]

Post counts:

[...]

Insomniac: 18 9

Insomniac has both his Goko and iso usernames listed, so if you're not careful it can seem like he has twice as many votes as he has. Just for correctness sake.

Good catch. Uncharacteristically low, but consistent with his level of activity in other threads recently.

[Grujah]

was writing a big post, and during it I came to something that I will post first, as it's easier than to fit it in the other one with big rumbling..

Vote: Robz888

You go first.

You don't know how hard it is for me to resist doing so.

Hmm..
And his first post is about massclaim.

TO me, seems kinda way to set up for day-vig fakeclaim as scum dayvig. I mean, how corny is that line there, with all that happened?

May be me just overthinking, but.. well, it's a thing.

[Grujah]

Dude, Eevee, you got up early

On Ins:
His alignment is so not clear. I am even suspecting scum more, as the role is somewhat similar to High Priestess (power which can help you with finding other team, but also town PRs).

Do note that if he dies, something weird will happen.

@Robz/Galz/Eevee

Hm.. I guess it's between Galz and Robz for sure, based on his rashness to shoot. But he is crazy Robz ATM, which I heard means town Robz, but I don't give too much credit for that, he can fake/change. Galz's explanation post was written in a way that it seems like almost 100% that Robz is scum. Maybe not intentional :s. I also didn't like Galz's insta-claim, for no reason.

What about leaving Galz to shoot Robz? too much of a risk?


Actually, when I read
@Others (lurkers first)

shraeye - He mainly defended yuma (which I agree on) and he also put in this drunktake:
"Robz shot eevee because his best chance for living was to hit scum.  Given that Galz is apparently not on Robz's team and has claimed Vig, Robz believes that Galz is actually the strongman vig.  that is why he shoots Eevee.  Shooting before waiting for Eevee to claim was terrible, but it was a scum move banking on eevee hopefully also being scum.  Now that that has failed he's focusing on Galz.  This is play of caught scum.  My vote stands."
Hmm.. interesting, kinda makes sense why he wouldn't shoot Galz instead, but no so convinced, if he was scum he knew that Eevee cannot be other team, only SK - it's quite risky. But if he shot town he could push Galz.

Jo - mostly regular D1 jo. Not much to work with, here. Pushes Robz like crazy, which means that he is most likely wrong and that we should lynch Galzria instead.

Volty - hmm.. I'm willing to attribute his lurkiness to holidays, he doesn't lurk as scum.

sparks - stinks. Got caught by Robz's massclaim joke too easily, and disspapeared when Volt asked for explanation.

Archetype - almost EVERY single post of him is BUDDYING UP with somebody (like, Robz in recent ones). Just go back and read em. Stinks scum the most of non-controversial people.

Jimmmm - Too hedgey and generic. He made almost NO contribution of his own, it's all repeats and theory. Stinks.

Yuma - stinks just a bit with all contraversy with slip and self-vote-vote going on, but I am not convinced of his scumminess at all. It's yuma, FFS.

Lekkit - Do NOT make assumptions like these ones:
"As for Ins making up a role name, I think scum would keep better track of a fake claim. I'm pretty sure that his role is actually the Magician. It would make the most sense to me."
This is same fallacy that Frisky made about me when I made a unlikely, drunk, scum fakeclaim - Grujah would do better than that if he was fakeclaiming. Fact was, I just fucked up.
Not too much on him, he did get onto Yuma wagon, so a minus there, but was solid otherwise, so a few pluses there?

ash - townish? I agree with him on Robz shooting thing - it was very weird. Additional to being to rash to vig, this is Robz we are talking about, it took putting him at near certain death 2 times in chicken mafia to get him to claim. Meh.

Axxle - jeez, talk about concise post.. needs to post more stuff than one liners, one-liners stink a bit.

[Grujah]

Ok, this is what I think with that Archetype thing, not really budding by this.. extremely nice, friendly, PC attitude:

Ok, I agree that Jo pressuring you like that was preeeeetty crappy, but if you are scum, I think that it was the right thing to do.

Fair enough. I still don't think that was the best Town play. But if you were for sure Eevee was scum, then I guess you had to do it. I still think you should have talked it over. Like you, and many other people have said in various other games: Vigging is dangerous.

[Eevee]

Dude, Eevee, you got up early

Yeah. Haven't been sleeping well, went to bed quite/very drunk both wednesday and thursday and woke up after 5 hours both days. Unpleasant! Well, this morning the excitement of Insomniac's claim made sleeping impossible once I had opened the forums.

sparks - stinks. Got caught by Robz's massclaim joke too easily, and disspapeared when Volt asked for explanation.

!!! This. Sparky is easily my top scumread outside of this situation.

To recap: gets suspected from his first post, doesn't really address the case much but just completely stops posting. The suspicion fades away (I know I forgot until now). I'm not saying the original case was much, but this is an epitome of the scummy kind of lurking.

[Jimmmmm]

After re-reading both Robz and Galz, I think either of them could be scum, but I'm leaning towards Robz. His posts seem more like scummy scrambling than cornered Townie. I certainly think he's clever enough to come up with "if I pretend I don't know my role exists, it'll be obvious I don't have it." I'm also not thrilled about his attempted vig. I know he'll say he was forced into it, but I think Town Robz would have tried to talk his way out of it first.

I've been getting a weird vibe from Galz all day, but for now I'm willing to attribute that to the frustration he's been experiencing from Mafia games recently.

In general, I agree with this plan (I was actually going to suggest it):

I guess the objective best plan (best if you don't know that I am not scum), is to lynch me, have Galzria shoot Insomniac, and lynch Galzria tomorrow depending on my flip and Insomniac's. A redirector could mess up the Insomniac part, though.

I think Robz is the best lynch at this stage. If Galz is Town, and Robz flips Town, then Galz should kill Insom. If Galz is Town and Robz flips scum, I think Town Galz is a good enough player to make up his own mind if/who he should kill.

So Vote: Robz and if he's Town one of Galz and Insom will flip scum tonight or tomorrow.

[Eevee]

I am not giving Galzria the permission to shoot Insomniac if Robz flips town. If Robz is town, the most likely explanation is that Galzria is scum (Insomniac may be too, but I doubt he lied about the result).

Going from "Insomniac is not conftown even if his info is good" to "he should be vigged tonight" is a pretty gigantic leap. Fos at everyone who wants to kill our major arcana!

[Grujah]

I am not giving Galzria the permission to shoot Insomniac if Robz flips town. If Robz is town, the most likely explanation is that Galzria is scum (Insomniac may be too, but I doubt he lied about the result).

most likely?
Unless Ins made everything up, YOU must say that it is THE ONLY explanation.

[Grujah]

Also, why didn't you claim before getting shot, Fuzzy?

For what you know, you might just as well wasted a town day-kill for nothing.

[Eevee]

I am not giving Galzria the permission to shoot Insomniac if Robz flips town. If Robz is town, the most likely explanation is that Galzria is scum (Insomniac may be too, but I doubt he lied about the result).

most likely?
Unless Ins made everything up, YOU must say that it is THE ONLY explanation.

YEAH AND PEOPLE WANT TO GIVE HIM THE PERMISSION TO SHOOT INSOMNIAC!? Don't you see how terrible that is, scumGalzria would just say "well, I know I'm town so Ins had to be scum, what was I to do". If we tell Galzria now that if he shoots Ins, we will KNOW he is scum, at least he can't use his vig powers on a freaking major arcana while saying "because I know I'm town, it was the right move". Again, hopefully and I would also say probably this is all academic because Robz is scum.

I didnt claim for the same reason I still havent. (And also didnt really expect Robz to shoot like that, it was a ridiculously scummy move. If we "wasted a town day kill", I'm going to say it was Robz's fault not mine.)

[Jimmmmm]

I am not giving Galzria the permission to shoot Insomniac if Robz flips town. If Robz is town, the most likely explanation is that Galzria is scum (Insomniac may be too, but I doubt he lied about the result).

most likely?
Unless Ins made everything up, YOU must say that it is THE ONLY explanation.

YEAH AND PEOPLE WANT TO GIVE HIM THE PERMISSION TO SHOOT INSOMNIAC!? Don't you see how terrible that is, scumGalzria would just say "well, I know I'm town so Ins had to be scum, what was I to do". If we tell Galzria now that if he shoots Ins, we will KNOW he is scum, at least he can't use his vig powers on a freaking major arcana while saying "because I know I'm town, it was the right move".

I disagree. If Robz and Galz are both Town, I don't really see any way for Insom to be. If Robz is Town and Galz is scum, his team is going to do what they want to do, regardless of what others are telling them to. If they kill Insom, it won't be because we told them to. If Robz flips Town tonight and Insom flips Town tomorrow morning, I'm going for the Galz lynch, pretty much regardless of what he says. "You told me to kill Insom" will have zero weight.

[Eevee]

I am not giving Galzria the permission to shoot Insomniac if Robz flips town. If Robz is town, the most likely explanation is that Galzria is scum (Insomniac may be too, but I doubt he lied about the result).

most likely?
Unless Ins made everything up, YOU must say that it is THE ONLY explanation.

YEAH AND PEOPLE WANT TO GIVE HIM THE PERMISSION TO SHOOT INSOMNIAC!? Don't you see how terrible that is, scumGalzria would just say "well, I know I'm town so Ins had to be scum, what was I to do". If we tell Galzria now that if he shoots Ins, we will KNOW he is scum, at least he can't use his vig powers on a freaking major arcana while saying "because I know I'm town, it was the right move".

I disagree. If Robz and Galz are both Town, I don't really see any way for Insom to be. If Robz is Town and Galz is scum, his team is going to do what they want to do, regardless of what others are telling them to. If they kill Insom, it won't be because we told them to. If Robz flips Town tonight and Insom flips Town tomorrow morning, I'm going for the Galz lynch, pretty much regardless of what he says. "You told me to kill Insom" will have zero weight.

Uhm yeah I guess you are right actually. Doesn't really matter much anyways, I think it's very super unlikely they are both town anyways. And in that case Insomniac has got to be scum. So sure, you were right, sorry.

[Eevee]

It didn't occur to me Insomniac probably realized he was painting a target in his back when he claimed..

[Grujah]

BTW. Am I only one who like.. almost completely disregards Ins = made up the claim thing? I just dont see anyone doing that straigh out d1.

[Jimmmmm]

BTW. Am I only one who like.. almost completely disregards Ins = made up the claim thing? I just dont see anyone doing that straigh out d1.

As soon as I read Insom's claiming I thought it was very unlikely he was making it up. He must have known he was making himself a target for (likely) two scumteams (or one if he's in the other), and thought sharing the information he had was worth it. So I didn't completely disregard the idea, but like I said, I didn't have a particular reason to disbelieve him.

So as I see it here are the four possibilities in order of likelihood:

1: Robz is scum, the other three (Galz, Insom and Eevee) are Town.
2: Galz is scum, the other three are Town (and telling Galz what to do with his NK is irrelevant).
3: Insom is scum. I suppose this could mean any number of the other three are scum, but for now we won't get to this conclusion unless Robz flips Town and Galz is Town (and then only he'll get to it, but luckily he'll be able to do something about it).
4: Eevee is some sort of scum Major Role. God help us all.

But mostly: Either Robz or Galz is scum, and the best candidate is Robz.

[Jimmmmm]

Uhm yeah I guess you are right actually. Doesn't really matter much anyways, I think it's very super unlikely they are both town anyways. And in that case Insomniac has got to be scum. So sure, you were right, sorry.

Oh and cheers. It's nice when you make an argument and the other person concedes the point, especially on the internet. Respect to anyone who's willing to do that, and I'm pretty sure I've seen you do it before.

[Galzria]

I would really like for Robz to flip scum too. Having Galzria as a confirmed townie is.. pretty good.

Also, I'd instruct some investigative tool to check Insomniac tonight. His role might be very powerful, so it would be extra useful to know if he is with town or not. Robz's suggestion of vigging him tonight is something I just cant understand.. he claimed a major arcana ffs! But if it was scum Robz being desperate, maybe I dont need to understand. Still, it's important to remember in a two scum team game he isn't a confirmed townie even if we catch scum with his intel. I actually don't think it tells anything of his alignment yet, although obviously finding scum for us is very pro town.

And Ins, the questions for you were a) what's your actual card b) what do you think of the developments and c) anything else you think you should claim about your role today before we lynch Robz?

Although it's already been explained fully, but town!Robz is backed into insisting that you must be town at this point. There is nothing in existence other than bullet-proof VT that could save you from a Town!Robz Dayvig. Because of this, from his perspective, he must insist I'm scum.

I get that, of course. But if you kill me, and I flip town, them what can Scum!Robz do to defend himself? His only recourse is to attack Insomniac since he "knows" that you're town. Likewise, he must continue to insist that if we lynch him, and he flips town, then I should shoot Insomniac if I'm also town - which is, as has been explained, accurate.

So his insistence that Insomniac be killed stems from my being revealed as town. The problem is that the line of thought is applicable to both scum!Robz, and town!Robz, because at this point both must front a face of Eevee is absolutely obvtown. This is, of course, only true if Robz is town. If he's scum, Eevee has a 50% chance of being a SK.

[Galzria]

Added on to the above, it should be noted that SK!Eevee knows for a fact that Robz is a WW at this point.

[Voltgloss]

I am here now, phoneposting.  That was about 250 posts while I was asleep.  Went to bed before Eevee's claim and missed all the ensuing hijinks.

I am mulling further on my commute, but one thing that stands out to me as weird is Eevee's reluctance to claim.  If he were the "ordinary" bulletproof townie, I don't see why he wouldn't claim that at this juncture.  We know he's bulletproof - he would just be confirming what we already know.

So this has me concerned that Eevee is either the WW-immune SK, or a Major Arcana with bulletproof.  If Major, then his alignment is a big question mark.

[Grujah]

I am mulling further on my commute, but one thing that stands out to me as weird is Eevee's reluctance to claim.  If he were the "ordinary" bulletproof townie, I don't see why he wouldn't claim that at this juncture.  We know he's bulletproof - he would just be confirming what we already know.

Good point.

[Grujah]

But as SK he would claim town, no?

[Eevee]

I didn't claim because I think protecting our major arcanas is a big deal. Basically didn't want to claim for no reason (and I wasn't/am not under a lynch threat or see no other benefit for town in claiming).

[Jimmmmm]

Here's a Robz-is-a-SK theory: Insom, Robz, Galz and Eevee are all on the same scumteam.

It'd have to be Werewolves, as Robz would be the King of Swords.
Eevee would have to be a Major Role.
Galz and Insom could be anything really (well, you know, anything Werewolf), since neither of their claims are verifiable.

Firstly, what a ferocious pack of wolves that would be. Secondly, would they be capable of coming up with such a grand plan? I wouldn't put it past them.

For my other theory, I was accused of SK-hunting. So before you start analysing this one too much, let me be clear: I do not believe this theory to be correct. Like the other one, I thought it was interesting enough to be worth mentioning, but very unlikely.

[jotheonah]

Wow a lot happened while I was asleep.

I have a piece of setup info that would allow us to clear Robz with a very limited massclaim.

Basically, everyone would need to claim sword or not sword. I am aware of Volt's power in MA1. I have some reason to believe its unlikely we're in a parallel situation.

[Eevee]

What benefit would there have been in me claiming? If someone points out something I'm not realizing, I can obviously still do it. Just don't see how it would help.

[Jimmmmm]

Huh. How have I missed that Eevee could be a SK? I guess the main thing that means is that if Robz is a Werewolf then we still have reason to suspect Eevee.

[Grujah]

Basically, everyone would need to claim sword or not sword. I am aware of Volt's power in MA1. I have some reason to believe its unlikely we're in a parallel situation.

I think I'm up for it.

It's either that you have similar power to Volt, and this is a setup.. but than if you fuck up with Robz, we'll lynch you.

[Jimmmmm]

I have a piece of setup info that would allow us to clear Robz with a very limited massclaim.

Basically, everyone would need to claim sword or not sword. I am aware of Volt's power in MA1. I have some reason to believe its unlikely we're in a parallel situation.

Hmm. I have to get to bed now, but tomorrow I'll have a read of MA1, and see what others who were in MA1 have to say about this. How much information are you willing to give before you get a massclaim?

[jotheonah]

I have a piece of setup info that would allow us to clear Robz with a very limited massclaim.

Basically, everyone would need to claim sword or not sword. I am aware of Volt's power in MA1. I have some reason to believe its unlikely we're in a parallel situation.

Hmm. I have to get to bed now, but tomorrow I'll have a read of MA1, and see what others who were in MA1 have to say about this. How much information are you willing to give before you get a massclaim?

Not much to claim, really. But the less I say, the harder it will be for scum to figure out how to lie their way out of it.

[yuma]

what in the world!!! 1o new pages! going back to read...

[Galzria]

Joth, you'll have to forgive my concern on this. I don't at all support it after the outcome of Arcana I, when after days of working town to a slam dunk win, we got overpowered by Death, who was an SK variant that got a permanent +1 (hidden) vote for every Wand (or whatever suit it was) he killed. As it was, he ended up with 4 votes at the end of the game, and it could've been more had we actually suit claimed.

And yes, this is coming from a guy who has already claimed card AND suit. Cayvie hates mass-claims. She has since we seat claimed in BMMM. She went out of her way to put a role like Death in the last game to discourage us from claiming, and she has said (thanks for the quote earlier Volt) that we should expect similar in her future Arcana games. I'm afraid I must stand against this.

[Grujah]

so, he knows all the swords, and than he has 50% chance to be wrong about robz otherwise we just lynch him?

[Grujah]

or, well, he'll than argue that you lied and are actually a sword and not a pentacle.. blah.

[Grujah]

or, well, he'll than argue that you lied and are actually a sword and not a pentacle.. blah.

So, if Galz lying screws you up, jo, than there is no point in claim, i think, as it would boil down to we lynch one of them, and if we miss, we lynch another one.

[jotheonah]

Joth, you'll have to forgive my concern on this. I don't at all support it after the outcome of Arcana I, when after days of working town to a slam dunk win, we got overpowered by Death, who was an SK variant that got a permanent +1 (hidden) vote for every Wand (or whatever suit it was) he killed. As it was, he ended up with 4 votes at the end of the game, and it could've been more had we actually suit claimed.

And yes, this is coming from a guy who has already claimed card AND suit. Cayvie hates mass-claims. She has since we seat claimed in BMMM. She went out of her way to put a role like Death in the last game to discourage us from claiming, and she has said (thanks for the quote earlier Volt) that we should expect similar in her future Arcana games. I'm afraid I must stand against this.

Certainly its possible that that's the case. But as I said, if it's exactly the same thing, I have reason to believe its not a concern here. This is one suit out of four, the chance that its the one cayvie's set up a check for is slim, I would say.

or, well, he'll than argue that you lied and are actually a sword and not a pentacle.. blah.

So, if Galz lying screws you up, jo, than there is no point in claim, i think, as it would boil down to we lynch one of them, and if we miss, we lynch another one.

That is a good point. Fine we'll drop it.

Ok, I think we have to lynch Robz. Because, barring Major Arcana shenanigans, a Robz townflip clears Eevee. A Robz WW flip makes Eevee SK a strong possibility. A Galz flip is just not that informational.

[Eevee]

Why strong? Or rather, how do you define strong?

[jotheonah]

1) Your reluctance to claim (leaving your options open against a BP townie counterclaim)
2) Your eagerness to quicklynch Robz BEFORE he could fire, despite being immune to his shot

To explain: If you're a werewolf-immune SK and you think Robz might be a werewolf, you don't want him to shoot you at all, because that fingers you. Best case scenario would have been Robz flipping wolf without you having to tip your hand on your BP-ness at all, and you were certainly eager to pursue that avenue.

As town BP, I don't think you would have feared being dayvigged. You could have taken your time with the Robz lynch.

If you ARE town BP, I certainly want to clear you, because no one but Galz can kill you and if he does, we'll know it was him. Having a BP IC around sounds pretty great.

[yuma]

My take on everything here is as such:

My gut says Galz is scummy....

But my mind and logic is saying that Robz is scummy....

I think lynching Robz is our best bet at this point because it is a 50% chance of him being scum (either WW day vig or the 5 of wands day vig) and 50% chance of him being scum (out of him and Galz, as I don't think Eevee has a QT). And if Robz is the 5 of wands... well he was a one-shot, so he is basically a VT at this point and it isn't the end of the world to Day 1 lynch a VT--that is pretty much normal, right--and it basically guarantees a lynch of scum!Galz tomorrow.

However, we should absolutely wait until Insomniac shows up before doing anything. We also should not claim.

In summary, I am willing to vote Robz, but will not do so until Insomniac shows up--barring something crazy from him of course.

[Voltgloss]

I tend to agree that the Robz lynch is what we need today, because of what it tells us about Eevee's - and, by extension, Galz's - alignment.  I think it guarantees us a scumkill no later than Day 2's lynch, i.e.:

1.  If Robz is scum, we lynch him, hooray, we hit scum.

2.  If Robz is town, and Galz is town, then Galz knows to strongman vig Eevee (assuming Insom is telling the truth).  If Eevee flips scum, hooray, we hit scum.  If Eevee flips town, we can still confirm Galz's strongman vigginess via the flavour and the kill piercing Eevee's bulletproof, which means that Insom is our lynch for Day 2.

3.  If Robz is town, and Galz is scum, then Galz does not have a strongman kill (unless Galz is Major Arcana, which I find rather unlikely).  So there shouldn't be a strongman-flavoured kill in the night - and in particular, there shouldn't be a way for Galz and his faction to kill Eevee - which is our cue to lynch Galz on Day 2, hitting scum.

[Insomniac]

I am the magician. I know two spells and learn more when a certain suit dies. They get more powerful as more people of that suit die.
I believe it is robz that is scum but it COULD be Galz or Eevee. So having a qt is not out of the realm of possibilities

[Insomniac]

Have to drive now but ill post full claim and why it could be Galz in 30~

[jotheonah]

A town-aligned major arcana gets powered up by wiping out a whole suit?

[jotheonah]

I tend to agree that the Robz lynch is what we need today, because of what it tells us about Eevee's - and, by extension, Galz's - alignment.  I think it guarantees us a scumkill no later than Day 2's lynch, i.e.:

1.  If Robz is scum, we lynch him, hooray, we hit scum.

2.  If Robz is town, and Galz is town, then Galz knows to strongman vig Eevee (assuming Insom is telling the truth).  If Eevee flips scum, hooray, we hit scum.  If Eevee flips town, we can still confirm Galz's strongman vigginess via the flavour and the kill piercing Eevee's bulletproof, which means that Insom is our lynch for Day 2.

3.  If Robz is town, and Galz is scum, then Galz does not have a strongman kill (unless Galz is Major Arcana, which I find rather unlikely).  So there shouldn't be a strongman-flavoured kill in the night - and in particular, there shouldn't be a way for Galz and his faction to kill Eevee - which is our cue to lynch Galz on Day 2, hitting scum.

This. Vote: Robz888

[Robz888]

I tend to agree that the Robz lynch is what we need today, because of what it tells us about Eevee's - and, by extension, Galz's - alignment.  I think it guarantees us a scumkill no later than Day 2's lynch, i.e.:

1.  If Robz is scum, we lynch him, hooray, we hit scum.

2.  If Robz is town, and Galz is town, then Galz knows to strongman vig Eevee (assuming Insom is telling the truth).  If Eevee flips scum, hooray, we hit scum.  If Eevee flips town, we can still confirm Galz's strongman vigginess via the flavour and the kill piercing Eevee's bulletproof, which means that Insom is our lynch for Day 2.

3.  If Robz is town, and Galz is scum, then Galz does not have a strongman kill (unless Galz is Major Arcana, which I find rather unlikely).  So there shouldn't be a strongman-flavoured kill in the night - and in particular, there shouldn't be a way for Galz and his faction to kill Eevee - which is our cue to lynch Galz on Day 2, hitting scum.

Okay fine you need to lynch me I guess, great.

After I flip, Galzria should NOT shoot Eevee, if Galz is actually also town. He should shoot Insomniac.

[yuma]

vote count please!

[Robz888]

I still have to say though, do you guys actually think I would have painted myself into this corner as scum? If I am scum, I am the scum implicated by inomniac's investigation, and all my actions--my claim, my vigging--served only to further implicate myself.

Do you think scum Robz would fall into this trap so easily? Doesn't a town!Robz, desperate to clear himself by shooting probscum, fit the narrative better?

It is in fact this logic that gives me lingering suspicions about insomniac. Because Galzria had put himself in this same corner (although perhaps it happened to him by default, since he didn't know I would be day shot). Because I can't see how scum!galz escapes this, I just worry scum galz is not actually scum. And in that case I am just marveling at insomniac's brilliant scum play.

[Insomniac]

I am the Wizard yes that means as Major Arcana I AM claiming on day 1 (A further note, I didn't realize I was Major Arcana when I decided to do this, but whatever there's probably a doctor and WIFOM and all that [Jailkeeping me prevents me from using a spell but would keep me alive]), each night I can memorize a spell, including Night 0 to use on the following day. My choices last night were Detect Magic, and Detect Secret Doors.

Detect Magic allows me to pick a suit and everyone in that suit gets revealed. (not their cards just that they are in that suit.
Detect Secret Doors allows me to pm the names of 3 players to the mod and find out how many of them have access to a quicktopic.

I picked Detect Secret Doors last night, I decided to investigate the 3 players I mentioned. I found out that between the 3 of them they have access to ONE quicktopic, meaning that ONE of them is scum and TWO of them ARE town. This is MUCH stronger than a town OR a scum result in my opinion.

So IF we do this right, we get 3 IC's and 1 scum right off the bat.

IT IS possible that I have found a mason/lover but I still think its far more likely that they are scum, because to be a mason/lover requires that we HAVE that AND that one of them rolled it. Based on their replies I think this unlikely.

Based on the replies I feel comfortable with a Vote: Galzria
Robz seems town based on his reply to number my second question and his desire to claim early.


To clarify my result is NOT just a scum result, it is indeed TWO town results AND a SCUM result.

I need the towns help to determine who is what though.

[Insomniac]

^^ was the claim I had planned before I had to do it via phone

[Insomniac]

Future Spells: Detect Thoughts, Clairvoyance, Locate Creature, Telepathic Bond, True Seeing, Vision.

I learn a spell whenever someone in the suit of Cups dies.

[Insomniac]

I do not know what my future spells do.

[Insomniac]

Why? Because if you're scum and already resigned to your fate, your best option is to shoot, and hope you find scum. If not, you were dead anyway. If you did find scum, then you got to live. It's win/win for your faction.

There is one qt between the 3 of you, if Robz is scum he has a 0% chance of hitting scum so this wording made me VERY uneasy

[Galzria]

Insomniac, have you read the last 10 pages?

[Insomniac]

I have Galz.

[jotheonah]

But there is no wizard.

[Insomniac]

Robz wanting to Vig me is ridiculous. YES my claim makes me more like death, I promise I'm town and this isn't a gambit.

Pros to lynching Robz: He wants to vig me, didn't note a role in the list he keeps toting everyone to know, and tried to dayvig eevee when there was no consensus

Pros to lynching Galz: The wording above was used TWICE. Because there is only one QT between the 3 players it is IMPOSSIBLE for Robz to be scum and also vig scum, although I still think Robz would have dayvigged as scum.

[Insomniac]

But there is no wizard.

My role name is wizard, my card is magician

[Galzria]

Vote: Galzria

Let's do this then. Congrats Robz on living out the Day, and fooling Insomniac into thinking that it makes more sense that my 5th post of the game would be to full-fake-claim with 0 votes on me, then it does for you to be a WW (which is 50% of the time from every players perspective, although 100% from mine).

Once the town (sorry Robz, your voice counts for nothing here) decides on the below, I'll be happy to. Until then, there's little point arguing with scum attempting to goad along a lynch.

Cayvie, would the Ace of Wands be immune to the King of Swords?

yes

Then from my perspective:

Town!Robz would kill all iterations of Town!Eevee except Nine of Swords. But cannot both be town, so this does not work.

Scum!Robz can not kill Eevee if Eevee is the 5 of Swords (Town!Eevee), or the Ace of Swords (SK!Eevee).

There is no world where Eevee is scum, and Robz is town. Ergo from my perspective, it's proven that Robz is scum. The problem town faces, is that Eevee has a 50% chance of being a SK.

Town: I suggest we lynch Robz, and I'll still NK Eevee. This cannot be stopped. I believe the reason Eevee agreed to this earlier is that he's the Ace of Swords, and he knew that one of two things was true: Robz was scum, and would flip such, making me inclined not to shoot him, OR, Robz was town, meaning I was lying scum, and could not Strong-Man Big him. In either case, he was likely safe.

If town does not wish to follow this plan, I'm willing to lynch myself. You lose my NK, but you have one confirmed scum (Robz), and one likely in Eevee (although not guaranteed. I suggest he gets Copped).

[Galzria]

Robz is WW. Eevee is SK.

[Robz888]

Robz wanting to Vig me is ridiculous. YES my claim makes me more like death, I promise I'm town and this isn't a gambit.

Pros to lynching Robz: He wants to vig me, didn't note a role in the list he keeps toting everyone to know, and tried to dayvig eevee when there was no consensus

Pros to lynching Galz: The wording above was used TWICE. Because there is only one QT between the 3 players it is IMPOSSIBLE for Robz to be scum and also vig scum, although I still think Robz would have dayvigged as scum.

I know I am town, and I know eevee is town, so if Galzria is actually town, he should shoot you. Is Galzria actually town? Probably not, but it's possible. I think it's less possible now that you've explained fully.

[Robz888]

Oh this is scum self-voting, if ever there was one.

[Galzria]

King of Swords, Ace of Wands - to be specific.

If there are any other Vig's out there, they should shoot Eevee tonight, since it removes a NK, and WW's can't do it, and Mafia won't see the need to. Vig'ing Robz will be pointless since he'll be lynched tomorrow anyway.

[Galzria]

Robz is WW. Eevee is SK.

King of Swords, Ace of Wands - to be specific.

If there are any other Vig's out there, they should shoot Eevee tonight, since it removes a NK, and WW's can't do it, and Mafia won't see the need to. Vig'ing Robz will be pointless since he'll be lynched tomorrow anyway.

[Robz888]

King of Swords, Ace of Wands - to be specific.

If there are any other Vig's out there, they should shoot Eevee tonight, since it removes a NK, and WW's can't do it, and Mafia won't see the need to. Vig'ing Robz will be pointless since he'll be lynched tomorrow anyway.

Well go ahead, it won't hurt Eevee.

[Voltgloss]

Hmm.

Well first off, that is a very detailed full claim.  Doesn't feel fake.  Insom could be lying about his alignment, but I expect his role works as he says it does.

One thing to confirm:  Insom, if a player is a Serial Killer, then I assume you wouldn't see them as having a QT, right?  (As Death in Major Arcana I, I was classified as a Serial Killer and I did not have a QT.)

I am not following why Robz's desire to claim early gives him town points.  As scum Dayvig, he could have been looking for the best target Day 1 just in case he wound up being the Day 1 lynch. 

PPE:  Insom, so I am clear:  are you suggesting Galz's comment that "if Robz hits scum he gets to live" is basically a scumslip that Robz could have hit scum if he had targeted right (i.e., picked Galz)?

PPE #2:  Galz, what the hell with the self-vote, man.  If you are town, I am just not comprehending how that is pro-town.

[Insomniac]

Galz what the crap. I prefer Robz today

@Volt RE Galz: It's possible the wording made me very uneasy
@Volt RE SK: If for some reason the serial killer has a qt I would see it, if they do not I would not.

[shraeye]

On Ins:
His alignment is so not clear. I am even suspecting scum more, as the role is somewhat similar to High Priestess (power which can help you with finding other team, but also town PRs).

Do note that if he dies, something weird will happen.

Yes, something will happen on a MA's death, but it's not clear if it's good or bad.  Just something unusual (Recall Grujah gaining some power after killing Robz last Arcana game).  I'm also unclear about Insomniac's alignment. 

Hm.. I guess it's between Galz and Robz for sure, based on his rashness to shoot. But he is crazy Robz ATM, which I heard means town Robz, but I don't give too much credit for that, he can fake/change. Galz's explanation post was written in a way that it seems like almost 100% that Robz is scum. Maybe not intentional :s. I also didn't like Galz's insta-claim, for no reason.

I don't give Robz town-credit for his reaction at all.  I also don't like Galz's insta-claim but I still think it's honest at this point.

After re-reading both Robz and Galz, I think either of them could be scum, but I'm leaning towards Robz. His posts seem more like scummy scrambling than cornered Townie. I certainly think he's clever enough to come up with "if I pretend I don't know my role exists, it'll be obvious I don't have it." I'm also not thrilled about his attempted vig. I know he'll say he was forced into it, but I think Town Robz would have tried to talk his way out of it first.

I am mulling further on my commute, but one thing that stands out to me as weird is Eevee's reluctance to claim.  If he were the "ordinary" bulletproof townie, I don't see why he wouldn't claim that at this juncture.  We know he's bulletproof - he would just be confirming what we already know.

Robz is WW. Eevee is SK.

I'm slowly also reaching Galz's conclusion.  Eevee is SK who doesn't have a quicktopic; Robz is the one with the quicktopic from the group of three.  Voltgloss's point that Eevee should probably have just claimed if town rings true.  I don't like Eevee's response to this.

I didn't claim because I think protecting our major arcanas is a big deal. Basically didn't want to claim for no reason (and I wasn't/am not under a lynch threat or see no other benefit for town in claiming).

What does Eevee mean by 'protecting our major arcana'?  By not claiming, this leaves more people who could be major arcana, and gives scum more decisions over who to shoot?  Are you forgetting completely that in MA1, BOTH major arcana were scum-aligned.  And that Insomniac is already claiming Major Arcana in this game and says that he's town-aligned.   Combined with Eevee's hesitance to let Galz vig Insomniac, Eevee must buy Insom's towniness.  I am really certain that both major arcana in this game would not be town-aligned.  So basically saying that you are 'protecting major arcana' is one thing, but really there isn't that much incentive for a townmember to continue to protect major arcana in this game, especially if they believe Insomniac's towniness.

[Voltgloss]

@Volt RE SK: If for some reason the serial killer has a qt I would see it, if they do not I would not.

OK.  So for what it's worth, let me reiterate:  I was SK in the first Major Arcana game, and I did not have a QT.  I would expect, more likely than not, that cayvie would follow the same approach in this game.

[Robz888]

Volt gloss, because my claim makes me look really really bad. Insomniac says there is one scum between the three offs, and if I am scum, I am that one scum. So claiming a role that is 50% chance scum and then shooting one of the other three was not going to be a long term survival plan.

[Galzria]

My fucking god Volt. It's like nobody reads the crap I post, even when I've already quoted it 4 times. Well here it is AGAIN:

Cayvie, would the Ace of Wands be immune to the King of Swords?

yes

Then from my perspective:

Town!Robz would kill all iterations of Town!Eevee except Nine of Swords. But cannot both be town, so this does not work.

Scum!Robz can not kill Eevee if Eevee is the 5 of Swords (Town!Eevee), or the Ace of Swords (SK!Eevee).

There is no world where Eevee is scum, and Robz is town. Ergo from my perspective, it's proven that Robz is scum. The problem town faces, is that Eevee has a 50% chance of being a SK.

Town: I suggest we lynch Robz, and I'll still NK Eevee. This cannot be stopped. I believe the reason Eevee agreed to this earlier is that he's the Ace of Swords, and he knew that one of two things was true: Robz was scum, and would flip such, making me inclined not to shoot him, OR, Robz was town, meaning I was lying scum, and could not Strong-Man Big him. In either case, he was likely safe.

If town does not wish to follow this plan, I'm willing to lynch myself. You lose my NK, but you have one confirmed scum (Robz), and one likely in Eevee (although not guaranteed. I suggest he gets Copped).

[jotheonah]

Wouldn't 3 scum on the same team have "one qt between the three of them" if that's the exact wording?

[Robz888]

Galz would self vote as scum. Remember his fake vote tactic in blitz whatever?

[shraeye]

Wouldn't 3 scum on the same team have "one qt between the three of them" if that's the exact wording?

Good point.  Insomniac, what do you think about this?



Also, on a totally unrelated note, I'm not gonna suitclaim.

[Insomniac]

Wouldn't 3 scum on the same team have "one qt between the three of them" if that's the exact wording?

No I recieve a number between 0-3 that tells me how many of the 3 players have access to a qt

[Insomniac]

Specifically

will tell you how many of those players have access to a quicktopic at night.

[Voltgloss]

My fucking god Volt. It's like nobody reads the crap I post, even when I've already quoted it 4 times. Well here it is AGAIN:

I did read this Galz, but I don't agree with it (or maybe don't understand it).

If town does not wish to follow this plan, I'm willing to lynch myself. You lose my NK, but you have one confirmed scum (Robz), and one likely in Eevee (although not guaranteed. I suggest he gets Copped).

The problem is that, if town lynches you, we don't have Robz confirmed to be scum.  We could have the situation of Robz being town!Dayvig, and Eevee being scum!Major-Arcana-who-is-bulletproof.

So that's why I don't see how lynching you is protown:  it doesn't solve our lynch question for Day 2.

[Robz888]

Volt, if Eevee is a bulletproof scum major arcana... I mean I'm just not weighing that option all too seriously.

[Insomniac]

At first, I'll admit when I set up my scheme I didn't realize I was a major arcana until I started putting my claim together and I kind of regretted it at first, but it killed RVS AND found (at least) 1 scum.

[Robz888]

At first, I'll admit when I set up my scheme I didn't realize I was a major arcana until I started putting my claim together and I kind of regretted it at first, but it killed RVS AND found (at least) 1 scum.

If Eevee wasn't bp it would have been a disaster. As is, it's okay I think. Even if we lynch me.

[Galzria]

My fucking god Volt. It's like nobody reads the crap I post, even when I've already quoted it 4 times. Well here it is AGAIN:

I did read this Galz, but I don't agree with it (or maybe don't understand it).

If town does not wish to follow this plan, I'm willing to lynch myself. You lose my NK, but you have one confirmed scum (Robz), and one likely in Eevee (although not guaranteed. I suggest he gets Copped).

The problem is that, if town lynches you, we don't have Robz confirmed to be scum.  We could have the situation of Robz being town!Dayvig, and Eevee being scum!Major-Arcana-who-is-bulletproof.

So that's why I don't see how lynching you is protown:  it doesn't solve our lynch question for Day 2.

Eevee STILL wouldn't have a QT in that situation, so Robz is STILL Werewolf. No problem. Ta-Da!

Even better, if you follow the following instead, it solves that fringe case:

Robz is WW. Eevee is SK.

King of Swords, Ace of Wands - to be specific.

If there are any other Vig's out there, they should shoot Eevee tonight, since it removes a NK, and WW's can't do it, and Mafia won't see the need to. Vig'ing Robz will be pointless since he'll be lynched tomorrow anyway.

[Robz888]

If I flip town, do you all agree (other than galz), that Eevee should not die? I think that's like obvious.

[Insomniac]

On to those that think I'm scum.

If I'm scum then this is undoubtably a gambit.

From MA1, the scumteam that had a major arcana had exactly two members. So lets look at what my gambit can accomplish.

1) My team gets to know what PR's there is between Robz/Galz/Eevee
2) I die when 0 of them flip scum
3) Best case scenario - All 3 get lynched then me. 16 players hell lets even assume its lynching and not vigging. 16-4=12 4 lynches buys 4 nk=12-4=8

So my team is down to 1/8 with another team around and possible a SK? Seems awful.

[shraeye]

King of Swords, Ace of Wands - to be specific.

If there are any other Vig's out there, they should shoot Eevee tonight, since it removes a NK, and WW's can't do it, and Mafia won't see the need to. Vig'ing Robz will be pointless since he'll be lynched tomorrow anyway.

Why aren't you going to be able to Vig Eevee yourself?

Do you really think you're getting lynched today?

[Voltgloss]

Galz, why wouldn't scum-MA-Eevee have a QT?  O was a scum Major Arcana in the first game, and he had a QT.

[Galzria]

King of Swords, Ace of Wands - to be specific.

If there are any other Vig's out there, they should shoot Eevee tonight, since it removes a NK, and WW's can't do it, and Mafia won't see the need to. Vig'ing Robz will be pointless since he'll be lynched tomorrow anyway.

Why aren't you going to be able to Vig Eevee yourself?

Do you really think you're getting lynched today?

Insomniac has declared it so, and he's the best lead we have to follow on this whole thing, so yes, I do. I switched my vote so we can move things along.

[Insomniac]

King of Swords, Ace of Wands - to be specific.

If there are any other Vig's out there, they should shoot Eevee tonight, since it removes a NK, and WW's can't do it, and Mafia won't see the need to. Vig'ing Robz will be pointless since he'll be lynched tomorrow anyway.

Why aren't you going to be able to Vig Eevee yourself?

Do you really think you're getting lynched today?

Insomniac has declared it so, and he's the best lead we have to follow on this whole thing, so yes, I do. I switched my vote so we can move things along.

Are you daft, I've said you made me uneasy I have said THRICE now that ROBZ is more likely scum than you. Do YOU read MY posts?

[Insomniac]

In case you need it FOUR times Galzria.

Vote: Robz

[Voltgloss]

Insom, to be fair, you were voting Galz right up until you just changed your vote.

[Insomniac]

Bleh I forgot that was in the full claim post. Which was prepared BEFORE I read the 10 additional pages.

[Eevee]

blah phoneposting, so much stuff happening.
shraeye, its my understanding the MA's can be of any alignment, it's random just like everything else. so i dont know what you are saying. but yes, i'm protecting the major arcanas & myself when im the major arcana by not giving the scum teams unnecessary information. insomniac, should i claim? no one has still given any reasons for me to claim, just said it's scummy that i'm not doing it for no reason?

@galz
i dont even. LETS JUST LYNCH ROBZ, HE'LL PROBABLY FLIP SCUM AND WE'LL HAVE YOU AND ME AS IC'S. if you are town, you should really freaking like this plan, what's with the self voting!?

@joth
i couldnt know robz was going to shoot me.. i've explained my stance on me claiming (and that i can claim whenever! just dont see any advantages). i was eager to quicklynch robz because i thought him not shooting could save us a townie. depriving scum of kills is generally pretty good (especially so because if robz is town, his vig shot would have been particularly useful to town at this point)


i dont know how to defend myself against these sk-allegations. LETS LYNCH ROBZ, either we hit scum (good!) or clear me (good!). it's not like town particularly hates having serial killers around in the early game anyways, and there are plenty of power roles who can check me. fbi agent is usually totally useless, now we have some use for it, check me check me please!

[Eevee]

Oh Galzria's self vote raging was just a misunderstanding?

[Archetype]

I am not giving Galzria the permission to shoot Insomniac if Robz flips town. If Robz is town, the most likely explanation is that Galzria is scum (Insomniac may be too, but I doubt he lied about the result).

I think that if Robz flips Town, and Galz is scum, he's going to shoot whoever he wants.

Regardless of who he shoots, if Robz flips Town, we're lynching him tommorow, right?

[Insomniac]

Oh Galzria's self vote raging was just a misunderstanding?

Seems like it, even though I clarified immediatley after the post that it was made WAY earlier. and I in my following posts said that I think robz is more likely scum.

[yuma]

Vote: Galzria

Let's do this then. Congrats Robz on living out the Day, and fooling Insomniac into thinking that it makes more sense that my 5th post of the game would be to full-fake-claim with 0 votes on me, then it does for you to be a WW (which is 50% of the time from every players perspective, although 100% from mine).

Once the town (sorry Robz, your voice counts for nothing here) decides on the below, I'll be happy to. Until then, there's little point arguing with scum attempting to goad along a lynch.

Cayvie, would the Ace of Wands be immune to the King of Swords?

yes

Then from my perspective:

Town!Robz would kill all iterations of Town!Eevee except Nine of Swords. But cannot both be town, so this does not work.

Scum!Robz can not kill Eevee if Eevee is the 5 of Swords (Town!Eevee), or the Ace of Swords (SK!Eevee).

There is no world where Eevee is scum, and Robz is town. Ergo from my perspective, it's proven that Robz is scum. The problem town faces, is that Eevee has a 50% chance of being a SK.

Town: I suggest we lynch Robz, and I'll still NK Eevee. This cannot be stopped. I believe the reason Eevee agreed to this earlier is that he's the Ace of Swords, and he knew that one of two things was true: Robz was scum, and would flip such, making me inclined not to shoot him, OR, Robz was town, meaning I was lying scum, and could not Strong-Man Big him. In either case, he was likely safe.

If town does not wish to follow this plan, I'm willing to lynch myself. You lose my NK, but you have one confirmed scum (Robz), and one likely in Eevee (although not guaranteed. I suggest he gets Copped).

vote: Galzria per this self vote and per Insomniac.

PS I have not read past this point and this could be a derp hammer... so be it.

[Eevee]

Oh Galzria's self vote raging was just a misunderstanding?

Seems like it, even though I clarified immediatley after the post that it was made WAY earlier. and I in my following posts said that I think robz is more likely scum.

Galzria reads from phone a lot. Easy to miss a post or something.

@archetype
See Jimm's explanation to me. I got confused, basically.

[yuma]

Galz what the crap. I prefer Robz today

@Volt RE Galz: It's possible the wording made me very uneasy
@Volt RE SK: If for some reason the serial killer has a qt I would see it, if they do not I would not.

well I guess I will unvote then, but Galz... don't self vote... seriously, why?

[Galzria]

Galz, why wouldn't scum-MA-Eevee have a QT?  O was a scum Major Arcana in the first game, and he had a QT.

So... You think that not only did Insomniac find the only other MA in the game, but that MA is part of a scum team, and is bullet-proof? AND Insomniac found the Dayvig, who just happened to shoot the second MA to no effect?

Or, you know, Occam's Razor:

He found 1 scum!team player, and 2 notscum!team players. If I'm scum (which you'll know I'm not upon my lynch), then he found both the 1-shot Dayvig, and the bullet-proof VT, AND they happened to collide to no effect.

Except that goes out the window after my flip. What he found, was Scum!Robz (King of Swords). He found me (5 of Pentacles, as claimed in my 5th game post), and he found Eevee, who could be either Nine of Wands (BPVT), OR Ace of Wands (Mafia Immune SK).

Even without knowing for a fact yet that I'm town, Occam's razor says that option 3 is the most likely, since it isn't a 1-in-the-entire-deck chance that Robz' dayvig fails. And even if you're considering me scum now, options 2 & 3 are still far, far more likely than option 1.

Not to mention, my god, freaking READ Robz. This is the SAME ROBZ that gunned for my head as hard as could, throwing out bad case after bad case in the very latest blitz game, all the whole going "Scum Robz wouldn't play like this! He wouldn't make cases like this! He wouldn't paint himself into a Robz or Galz like this!".

Look, I don't MIND dying here. I'm town, and I'll take a 1-1 trade every single day of the week and twice on Sunday. But Robz IS scum. And there's a higher than average chance Eevee is too. If I'm not the only Vig in the game, Eevee should be shot tonight. If he's WW-Immune, he won't block regular kills. Robz should be lynched tomorrow.

[yuma]

On to those that think I'm scum.

If I'm scum then this is undoubtably a gambit.

From MA1, the scumteam that had a major arcana had exactly two members. So lets look at what my gambit can accomplish.

1) My team gets to know what PR's there is between Robz/Galz/Eevee
2) I die when 0 of them flip scum
3) Best case scenario - All 3 get lynched then me. 16 players hell lets even assume its lynching and not vigging. 16-4=12 4 lynches buys 4 nk=12-4=8

So my team is down to 1/8 with another team around and possible a SK? Seems awful.

I am not saying that I don't think everything you are saying is true. I think you are being truthful about 1 of them being scum. But I am doubtful of your alignment and that the person you are outing could be scum on the opposite side of you... that is Robz is WW and you are mafia...

Just because one of them flips scum, doesn't make you confirmed town... I think likely confirmed town, but not guaranteed.

[Voltgloss]

Galz, what is the flavour for your Strongman Vig kill?

[Galzria]

Just caught up. Unvote. Vote: Robz888. Sorry Ins, it was my understanding that you still wanted my lynch first, which, as I stated so many times last night, I would follow because it ended in a 1-1 trade, which at the end of the day suited the town just fine.

[yuma]

Just caught up. Unvote. Vote: Robz888. Sorry Ins, it was my understanding that you still wanted my lynch first, which, as I stated so many times last night, I would follow because it ended in a 1-1 trade, which at the end of the day suited the town just fine.

anyone know where the vote count stands?

[Galzria]

Galz, what is the flavour for your Strongman Vig kill?

Just checked: Strangle.

[Eevee]

Galzria, how is that better than lynching Robz and copping me? We might have and FBI-agent, if not a regular cop will do? Even if the cop doesnt come out tomorrow, having a serial killer alive for a day or two more wouldnt kill town. Serial killers try to scumhunt as well.

Once again I propose, lynch Robz, if Robz is scum Galzria is an IC. If he is town, Galzria is scum. Galzria vigs however he pleases, because he is either town and smart or scum and won't listen to us anyways. An FBI-agent checks me if we have one, and I would suggest a cop checking me as well just in case we dont have an fbi agent.

I remember this happening earlier.. being town and thinking Galzria is more likely to be town than Robz but not having Galzria believe I'm town.. Hmm hmm hmm.

[Insomniac]

Just caught up. Unvote. Vote: Robz888. Sorry Ins, it was my understanding that you still wanted my lynch first, which, as I stated so many times last night, I would follow because it ended in a 1-1 trade, which at the end of the day suited the town just fine.

Volt made it more clear why you thought that (my previously prepared fullclaim that I had thought you scummier in based on the responses from the three of you), I was very confused. No worries.

[Galzria]

Oh Galzria's self vote raging was just a misunderstanding?

Seems like it, even though I clarified immediatley after the post that it was made WAY earlier. and I in my following posts said that I think robz is more likely scum.

Galzria reads from phone a lot. Easy to miss a post or something.

@archetype
See Jimm's explanation to me. I got confused, basically.

This x1000

[yuma]

unoffical vote count:

Robz888 (9): ashersky, Galzria, shraeye, Archetype, Eevee, Jimmmm, jotheonah, Insomniac, Galzria
Galzria (1): Robz888

[yuma]

I think that was the hammer

[yuma]

nope GAlz is on there twice, sorry

[yuma]

are we ready for a hammer?

[Insomniac]

Anywho I think regardless of whether I survive the night (Doctor/WIFOM I can be JK'd but its not ideal as I wouldn't get to prep a spell but if you're worried I'm scum but don't want me dead yet it makes sense) my play was absolutely the right play for town here we have SOO much information going into day 2 with people picking sides on this Robz/Galz/Eevee where exactly one is scum.

[yuma]

actually I think we already have it... I think Lekkit was on the Robz wagon as well...

[Insomniac]

I'm ready for a hammer. I obviously want to advise the doctor to protect me 99/100 times.

[yuma]

I'm ready for a hammer. I obviously want to advise the doctor to protect me 99/100 times.

well just to make sure:

vote: Robz

[Galzria]

Cayvie is an afternoon/evening player, so no flip anytime soon. Is anybody back-up modding?

[Archetype]

Dsell is.

[Galzria]

Dsell is. Not sure he's following along closely though.

[yuma]

Cayvie is an afternoon/evening player, so no flip anytime soon. Is anybody back-up modding?

cayvie is online now

[Insomniac]

Cayvie is also online right now.

[Archetype]

Dsell is.

But cayvie is online right now, so I expect a flip is coming soon.

[Archetype]

Double ninja'd!

[Galzria]

Dsell is.

But cayvie is online right now, so I expect a flip is coming soon.

Oooh, then maybe my PM won't go unnoticed!

[Voltgloss]

[Axxle]

Axxle - jeez, talk about concise post.. needs to post more stuff than one liners, one-liners stink a bit.

Pfft, I always post one liners.

[Galzria]

Wrong Game.

[Eevee]

You recognize them already, Galz!

[Galzria]

You recognize them already, Galz!

Shhh!
I don't know what you're talking about.

[Archetype]

Dsell is.

But cayvie is online right now, so I expect a flip is coming soon.

Oooh, then maybe my PM won't go unnoticed!

>_>

[Galzria]

Dsell is.

But cayvie is online right now, so I expect a flip is coming soon.

Oooh, then maybe my PM won't go unnoticed!

>_>

<.<

[cayvie]

thread locked

[cayvie]

Robz888 has been lynched.

He was the Five of Wands, One-Shot Dayvig. Now he's not.

Vote Count 1.3

Robz888 (9): ashersky, shraeye, Archetype, Eevee, jimmmmm, jotheonah, Insomniac, Galzria, yuma
Galzria (1): Robz888

Not Voting (6): sparky5856, Grujah, Voltgloss, Cuzz, Lekkit, Axxle

[cayvie]

Deadline for Night 1 Night Actions is Sunday, December 30, at 10 PM Forums Time. Send them to both mods please.

[cayvie]

Yay, some bodies.

Life is good.

jimmmmm has been ripped to shreds!
he was the Knight of Cups, Mafia Goon.
jotheonah is full of bullet holes!
he was the Three of Cups, Vanilla Townie.
Insomniac has been strangled!
he was The Magician, Wizard Extraordinaire.
Voltgloss's throat has been slit!
he was the Queen of Pentacles, Mafia Roleblocker.

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!

Day 2 start!!

[Grujah]

Ok, Ins died, something is going to happen, or has already happened.

I was right for railing Jimmm. Volt was so silent, I am not surprised, but I did not expect it. Next one on my list (after Jimm) was Arch. So, vote: Archetype

As for Galz vs Eevee - I think Galz is to be lynched.

[Eevee]

woah!?

[Eevee]

could Ins dying be the reason for one of the deaths? there were soo many, maybe he got a vengekill or something?

[Eevee]

Yay, some bodies.

Life is good.

jimmmmm has been ripped to shreds!
he was the Knight of Cups, Mafia Goon.
jotheonah is full of bullet holes!
he was the Three of Cups, Vanilla Townie.
Insomniac has been strangled!
he was The Magician, Wizard Extraordinaire.
Voltgloss's throat has been slit!
he was the Queen of Pentacles, Mafia Roleblocker.

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!

Day 2 start!!

So werewolves mauled jimm, mafia shot joth, galz strangled ins.. who slits throats? i don't think I've ever seen that flavour before? Probably nothing to do with the wizards death, so serial killer probably?

Also, shouldnt Ins's alignment be revealed?

[Eevee]

Need to know if Ins was town, because of the Galzria situation obviously. although I think Galzria has got to be scum either way, i doubt Ins faked his results regardless of his alignment (and we know he wasn't lying about his role now).

[Eevee]

... but the flavour, doesn't that sort of validate Galzrias claim as the only strongman role in the game?! I'm very confused, and worried Ins read his information wrong / lied to us for some unknown reason. His alignment would be a good start.

[Galzria]

Ok, Ins died, something is going to happen, or has already happened.

I was right for railing Jimmm. Volt was so silent, I am not surprised, but I did not expect it. Next one on my list (after Jimm) was Arch. So, vote: Archetype

As for Galz vs Eevee - I think Galz is to be lynched.

Eevee is likely a cult. Consider:

Joth was shot (Mafia kill).
Both Mafia were ripped to shreds (WW kills)
I Strangled Insomniac. (Strongman, or possibly SK (although that's usually a knife))

Now, Insomniac claimed one of Robz (confirmed town), myself, or Eevee had a QT. Neither a Strongman, nor an SK would have one. That rules me out, leaving only Eevee.

Given that Robz was town, the only "town" role Eevee could be is BP Townie. But go back and look at his aversion to claiming, and tell me if that makes any sense to you? However, if he's the other Major Arcana, then what he is and does is a complete mystery - outside of one thing: He lied about having a QT.

--- Also, having killed Insomniac, I inherited his power (1-shot), which I can now use. I have "Detect Magic", which allows me to name a suit and see all players that own a card of it's type.

[cayvie]

in case it was unclear, Insomniac was town-aligned

sorry about that

[Eevee]

Uhm, Galzria, so I'm likely a bulletproof cult leader..?

[Galzria]

Insomniac was a town wizard.

[Galzria]

I have requested to see all Wands players. It's a WW suit, and it houses the BP Townie.

[cayvie]

Ashersky, Axxle, and yuma are all briefly illuminated with a bright blue flash of light.

[Galzria]

Vote: Eevee

[Eevee]

Slitting throats doesn't sound particularly werewolfy to me, but I'm not a native speaker. My guess is a serial killer.

Also, l still think not claiming was the correct move. I didnt need to give away that information/it would not have benefitted the town at all! I'm actually rather proud I didnt rush into divulging too much information for once, it has certainly been a leak of mine in the past (and one that I've tried to consciously fix).

[Galzria]

Also, those three should card claim at this point, seeing as at least one is likely to be a WW. I would personally like to see Yuma start, since he's my biggest scum read from yesterday.

[ashersky]

I'm willing, in order as preferred.  Troublesome for the doc, though, no?

[Galzria]

I'm willing, in order as preferred.  Troublesome for the doc, though, no?

It's a concern, yes. But with WW's alive and kicking, and there being a good chance that one of you three is a WW (not guaranteed, of course, but likely), it's a risk worth taking to force a fakeclaim.

Also, for those keeping score at home, Eevee is NOT the only conceivable role he could've been for Robz to shoot him and live. He's not a Wand. That makes him an Arcana. There was no risk in my making this play because I already knew this to be true because I do not have a QT, therefore Eevee had to be the liar.

[sparky5856]

Okay for starters VOTE: Galzria.

Now, I'm upset that I missed most of the action yesterday.  That's my own fault though #f.ds's biggest lurker

I've read the game over the night so I'm caught up to speed, I'll post my thoughts on everyone because... hell, it's the least I can do >_<

Also what's with the flash of light?

[Grujah]

Ashersky, Axxle, and yuma are all briefly illuminated with a bright blue flash of light.

This is from Ins's spell. Probabably all town.

Well, jsut noticed the Ins's flavor. Yeah, Galz went for Ins, even though he was liklier to be town.

Vote: Galzria

[Eevee]

Yeahh, this is why I didnt want to claim and also why I think not claiming would have been the correct move if I was the bulletproof townie. I'm a major arcana, the hermit. I'm a bulletproof one-shot lightning rod. I'd rather not claim everything it means, because i think that could instruct scum on how to construct their night actions.

I DO NOT have a qt though. Everyone, does a bulletproof cult leader (or any other type of scum) just make any sense at all? This is not a bastard game. I can prove I'm a lightning rod next night.

Unless someone can explain galz strangling people, I'm really lost though. no one but the strongman vigilante should be able to do that, but I know I just don't have a qt.

[Grujah]

Ins's death.

[Eevee]

guys stop and consider galzrias flavor. something is going on.

[Grujah]

1 shot bulletproof cultist kinda does, cuz if he dies game degenerates or if he dies to early .. meh.

[Grujah]

Ashersky, Axxle, and yuma are all briefly illuminated with a bright blue flash of light.

This is from Ins's spell. Probabably all town.

Well, jsut noticed the Ins's flavor. Yeah, Galz went for Ins, even though he was liklier to be town.

Vote: Galzria

Wait
no.

[Eevee]

I'll lightning rod tonight. If my BP was one shot, I'll die..

[Grujah]

stupid me, if Galz stranged than he has to be Town.
I guess. Cuz town strangles.
And there is no scum strongman.

Vote: Eevee

[sparky5856]

Eevee: Well, just as I was starting to write about you, you claim. I did find your reluctance to claim earlier strange; isn't there only one bulletproof minor arcana role? I say we let him prove his lightning-rodness. His alignment is still up in the air though. He was especially pushy on Robz, which was unusual for him. I haven't seen Eevee be pushy before. Idk.

Replies are coming fast, rest to come.

[Eevee]

stupid me, if Galz stranged than he has to be Town.
I guess. Cuz town strangles.
And there is no scum strongman.

Vote: Eevee

WHAT SCUM ROLE IS FULL BULLETPROOF? Seriously, I need one night to prove this!!

[Grujah]

Yeahh, this is why I didnt want to claim and also why I think not claiming would have been the correct move if I was the bulletproof townie. I'm a major arcana, the hermit. I'm a bulletproof one-shot lightning rod. I'd rather not claim everything it means, because i think that could instruct scum on how to construct their night actions.

I DO NOT have a qt though. Everyone, does a bulletproof cult leader (or any other type of scum) just make any sense at all? This is not a bastard game. I can prove I'm a lightning rod next night.

Unless someone can explain galz strangling people, I'm really lost though. no one but the strongman vigilante should be able to do that, but I know I just don't have a qt.

Why didn't you just lighting tonight, that would pretty much prove it.

If you are bulletproof oneshot lightning rod, and town - you pretty much just need to activate rod once and than prove your towniness and than you cannot die.

That is even less logical.

[Grujah]

stupid me, if Galz stranged than he has to be Town.
I guess. Cuz town strangles.
And there is no scum strongman.

Vote: Eevee

WHAT SCUM ROLE IS FULL BULLETPROOF? Seriously, I need one night to prove this!!

You are one shot, not full bulletproof.

[sparky5856]

stupid me, if Galz stranged than he has to be Town.
I guess. Cuz town strangles.
And there is no scum strongman.

Vote: Eevee

WHAT SCUM ROLE IS FULL BULLETPROOF? Seriously, I need one night to prove this!!

Mafia is fun isn't it? 

[Grujah]

When people go through the night, and are heavily suspected, and only then the come up with "I can prove stuff next night" next morning, instead of proving it that very same night, it's just sad.

Also you would have saved Ins, and pretty much proven Galz as scum. But you didn't trigger so that you can bullshit stuff up.

[yuma]

Also, those three should card claim at this point, seeing as at least one is likely to be a WW. I would personally like to see Yuma start, since he's my biggest scum read from yesterday.

why in the world would I claim anything to you?

[Grujah]

Actually, hermit does sound like a SK role - he is alone and goes around silting people's necks.

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

[Eevee]

it's not just a standard lightning rod, without going into specifics, it also has investigatice aspects. also, I can be killed by some other MA's. cayvie wouldn't tell me if I'd survive the strongman vig, and I thought that either Ins is scum or galz is what he claims he is and uses his power with a good enough probability that I'd better wait. cayvie was very smart when making this role, it's rather complicated but quite cool hoe she balanced it so that activsting n1 isnt (necessarily) the bet move.

[Grujah]

Actually gonna bold this;

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

[Grujah]

it's not just a standard lightning rod, without going into specifics, it also has investigatice aspects. also, I can be killed by some other MA's.

There is no other MA besides dead Ins.

[Eevee]

Eevee 100% isn't scum though.

[Eevee]

it's not just a standard lightning rod, without going into specifics, it also has investigatice aspects. also, I can be killed by some other MA's.

There is no other MA besides dead Ins.

wasn't dead when I made my decision last night!

[yuma]

Also, those three should card claim at this point, seeing as at least one is likely to be a WW. I would personally like to see Yuma start, since he's my biggest scum read from yesterday.

why in the world would I claim anything to you?

oh, I see, because you are the strongman... and basically guaranteed to be town?

I guess there is a chance you are Major Arcana, but we have to risk that? Do I claim now?

[Eevee]

Yuma, I'm the 2nd MA. I don't understand though, either Ins made s mistake or galz should scum but.. as per th flavour he cant be.

[Grujah]

it's not just a standard lightning rod, without going into specifics, it also has investigatice aspects. also, I can be killed by some other MA's. cayvie wouldn't tell me if I'd survive the strongman vig, and I thought that either Ins is scum or galz is what he claims he is and uses his power with a good enough probability that I'd better wait. cayvie was very smart when making this role, it's rather complicated but quite cool hoe she balanced it so that activsting n1 isnt (necessarily) the bet move.

So you didn't have because it has investigative aspect, but you did not reveal that info? Even though if you did reveal, you cannot die anyway.

You cannot die except by specific MAs (which there are none) - and I assume, by lynch. So only way for you to die is via lynch. If somebody can die only by lynch, that is way more scum role than town role.

STILL DIDN'T ANSWER why you didn't triger lightning tonight and proved your story.

[yuma]

Yuma, I'm the 2nd MA. I don't understand though, either Ins made s mistake or galz should scum but.. as per th flavour he cant be.

and why did Galz shoot Insomniac? I don't understand

[Grujah]

Actually gonna bold this;

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

maybe cuz you knew you had strangler flavor as scum and wanted to prove your "towness" with it?

[Eevee]

Galzria, in what universe does a bulletproof cult leading / serial killing lightning rod make any sense? Work with me here, this situation is very weird for me too. What parts of my role do you find hard to believe? Seriously, think through this. Would cayvie make a role that basyardly!

[sparky5856]

yuma: I recall a so called "scum slip" by him. What was it?

Even if everything he said is true, Insom is certainly not confirmed town... I think more likely town than the opposing scum, but still

Oh yeah. That wasn't a slip. He was speaking of the opposing scum of Insomniac, not himself. I think some of the players got a little too eager to catch scumslips. Galzria Robz and Volt among those to jump on him, Robz town, Volt scum, Galz (I feel) scum.

As for yuma himself, I recall saying in the beginning of D1 that he wasn't being enough like "invisiyuma". But then he disappears for 10 pages. It's gonna be like that for a lot of players though. Things progressed so fast. This allows lurking to become VERY noticeable, so it's gonna be difficult to criticize players for lurking (except for me of course >_<). As for his content, he is very heavy on the "no massclaim" and "you're better than this etc." parades, which strike to me as genuinely towny. Nothing terribly convincing though, plus there's the possibility of invisiyuma. So, slight town here.

PPE: FOURTEEN this is insane.

[Galzria]

Actually, hermit does sound like a SK role - he is alone and goes around silting people's necks.

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

Read everything Robz wrote as he died. He was 100% right. My PM to Cayvie was basically this:

"If Ins is lying, and I kill Eevee, I've likely just killed the BP-Townie, while leaving scum Arcana alive (it's clear Ins isn't lying about being Arcana). What's worse, is people will instantly lynch me next, giving Insomniac and the other scum a free night to reign over us.

If Ins is lying and I kill him - great!

If Ins is telling the truth, then Eevee is MA Scum. This is a scary proposition. BUT, if I kill Insomniac now, there's a good chance he'll be Doctored. This will prove my towniness (well, that and the strangling), AND I'll likely inherit a power to help town. This path would (hopefully) lead to Eevee being revealed and not living to see another night."

---

Yes, it was a risky move, but being wrong (which I was) was less bad going this route, then being wrong going the other route.

[Grujah]

Eevee: Well, just as I was starting to write about you, you claim. I did find your reluctance to claim earlier strange; isn't there only one bulletproof minor arcana role? I say we let him prove his lightning-rodness. His alignment is still up in the air though. He was especially pushy on Robz, which was unusual for him. I haven't seen Eevee be pushy before. Idk.

Replies are coming fast, rest to come.

Even if he proves lightning rodness - what does that tell us?

NOTHING.

[ashersky]

Isn't lightning rod a town role?  I've only seen one, and it was in the huge game.

What proof is there that Galz is strongman?  He didn't kill Eevee to prove it...so he could still be scum, right?  All we know is he killed a town major arcana...that's scummy, right?

Just thinking things through...

[ashersky]

Lots of posts here...looking for Galz's town proof, then willing to follow him. 

[Eevee]

Actually gonna bold this;

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

maybe cuz you knew you had strangler flavor as scum and wanted to prove your "towness" with it?

how though? how!


 i don't get any of the good stuff before I use the rod, but the more I wait the better the stuff is.

[Grujah]

but you also knew that Eevee might be MA and only sure way for you (and town) to get rid of him is your one shot, that you used?

Meh.

But well, yeah, makes some sense.

@ash - he strangled. Strangle kills are strongman kills (I was that last time).

[Eevee]

Grujah, bulletproof LR cultist? Serial killer? Mafia? These sound reasonable, balanced and not at all bastardly?

[Grujah]

i don't get any of the good stuff before I use the rod, but the more I wait the better the stuff is.

So, you avoid all my questions with a mad theory that the longer you wait with using a power, the more great other powers you get. And also you are bulletproof and really, if there was no Ins, very little things can stop you from going very late with that rod. It is seriously badly made-up role so far.

-----


Also, jo was VT, what kind of power he had to know about the number of swords. Maybe we should have let the claim go, sigh.

[Galzria]

Grujah, bulletproof LR cultist? Serial killer? Mafia? These sound reasonable, balanced and not at all bastardly?

The Cult idea was simply a fear of mine, nothing more. 1-shot (full) BP WW Lightning Rod wouldn't be all that Bastard. It would be designed to allow you to Lightning-Rod while surviving everything that night to create maximum confusion. That's actually a neat idea that isn't really unbalanced much at all.

[Grujah]

Grujah, bulletproof LR cultist? Serial killer? Mafia? These sound reasonable, balanced and not at all bastardly?

Lightning Rod, SK, and cultist are all exclusive to each other - and all claimed by different people.

You did not even disclose your whole role for some "I don't wanna give away stuff to mafia" reasons. But you claim small, weird stuff in order to.. what?


And also, Eevee, QN: If we let you prove LR stuff (which proves nothing) - whom do we lynch today?

[sparky5856]

Actually gonna bold this;

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

Okay let me try to reason this out. We know Insomniac is town. Therefore he was telling the truth. One QT now among Eevee and Galzria. If Eevee is telling the truth, he has no QT. Then Galz could be a Mason, having access to a QT. One problem with that; he claimed Strongman Vig. Galz is lying here. This is what I'm seeing.

Is there a scenario where Galz IS a strongman vig and Eevee is a bulletproof scum?? Well then Galz knew Eevee was scum pretty much, on the account that Insom was telling the truth. Insom provided a lot of evidence I felt, I would have shot Eevee over Insom in Galz' situation personally.

Eevee is being kinda hedgy here, he's acting weird.

[sparky5856]

Isn't lightning rod a town role?  I've only seen one, and it was in the huge game.

What proof is there that Galz is strongman?  He didn't kill Eevee to prove it...so he could still be scum, right?  All we know is he killed a town major arcana...that's scummy, right?

Just thinking things through...

Lightning rod could be a scum role.

[Grujah]

Grujah, bulletproof LR cultist? Serial killer? Mafia? These sound reasonable, balanced and not at all bastardly?

The Cult idea was simply a fear of mine, nothing more. 1-shot (full) BP WW Lightning Rod wouldn't be all that Bastard. It would be designed to allow you to Lightning-Rod while surviving everything that night to create maximum confusion. That's actually a neat idea that isn't really unbalanced much at all.

or 1S BP SK LR. It even fits hermit, kinda.

I mean, it also fits hermit that the longer he waits the crazier he gets, but still doesn't prove that Eevee is town.

Eevee is like tryign to prove that he is some wierd role and that some of our theories are "out there, crazy", rather to trying to prove that he is town.

[ashersky]

Galz, your basically named VT now, or do you continue to be the new town major?

I think this is an important thing for us to know.

PPE--I don't know if I buy Galz's reason for not killing Eevee...scum together?

[ashersky]

Isn't lightning rod a town role?  I've only seen one, and it was in the huge game.

What proof is there that Galz is strongman?  He didn't kill Eevee to prove it...so he could still be scum, right?  All we know is he killed a town major arcana...that's scummy, right?

Just thinking things through...

Lightning rod could be a scum role.

But it forces your team to not NK, right?

[Grujah]

BTW - Grujah shooting questions and posts in a rapidly fashing, like right now - town Grujah.
Take a note for further games.

[yuma]

Am I claiming now?

I am going to bed in like 3 minutes... let me know!

[ashersky]

Agree that Eevee sounds terrible now...scrambling scum or flustered town?  Probably the former.

[ashersky]

BTW - Grujah shooting questions and posts in a rapidly fashing, like right now - town Grujah.
Take a note for further games.

Are you town? 

[sparky5856]

In modern colloquial usage, the term "hermit" denotes anyone living a life apart from the rest of society, or who simply does not participate in social events as much as is common, regardless of their motivation in doing so, including the misanthrope.

From Wikipedia, I found this intriguing.

Galz is NOT named VT. I just illustrated he could be lying.

[Eevee]

MY ROLE IS WEIRD. A lot of tiptoeing here.

Grujah, does what I'm saying seem like a reasonable scum lie to you?

As to who to lynch, we got four flips to analyze plus maybe someone can make of Galzria.  Scum redirecting Ins? him making s mistake? galz somehow manipulating his flavour?

[Grujah]

Galz, your basically named VT now, or do you continue to be the new town major?

I think this is an important thing for us to know.

PPE--I don't know if I buy Galz's reason for not killing Eevee...scum together?

CAn't be scum together, only one QT.

Which reminds me that eevee prolly ain't SK in that case, but something else.

[Galzria]

Actually gonna bold this;

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

Okay let me try to reason this out. We know Insomniac is town. Therefore he was telling the truth. One QT now among Eevee and Galzria. If Eevee is telling the truth, he has no QT. Then Galz could be a Mason, having access to a QT. One problem with that; he claimed Strongman Vig. Galz is lying here. This is what I'm seeing.

Is there a scenario where Galz IS a strongman vig and Eevee is a bulletproof scum?? Well then Galz knew Eevee was scum pretty much, on the account that Insom was telling the truth. Insom provided a lot of evidence I felt, I would have shot Eevee over Insom in Galz' situation personally.

Eevee is being kinda hedgy here, he's acting weird.

You are fighting this really hard. Quite simply: I didn't honestly believe Eevee was the only other MA in the game, and while Insomniac gave enough evidence to more or less prove he's MA, nothing he provided proved he was town - as was discussed to death yesterday.

At the end of the day, letting Scum!Insomniac live and shooting Town!Eevee was a worse proposition than letting Scum!Eevee live and shooting Town!Insomniac.

I AM the Strongman, and Insomniac WAS town. So was Robz. Now do the math.

[Eevee]

Grujah, would you be satisfied with me vigged the following night?

[yuma]

is anyone paying any attention to me?

[Grujah]

MY ROLE IS WEIRD. A lot of tiptoeing here.

Grujah, does what I'm saying seem like a reasonable scum lie to you?

As to who to lynch, we got four flips to analyze plus maybe someone can make of Galzria.  Scum redirecting Ins? him making s mistake? galz somehow manipulating his flavour?

So you'd still lynch Galz? I think that would be a bad move, given that we must put all trust in you being town? Galz would be the last person to lynch and first person to lynch tomorrow if you prove towniness - I don't know how.


And I don't know how do you mean for him to manipulate flavor when all MAs are revealed.

[sparky5856]

GUYS, let's do this.

Lynch Eevee, if he is some wacky SK role then we KNOW Galz is lying. He claimed Strongman Vig and would have a QT! If Eevee is part of a faction, Galz is named-VT, that's great too. If Eevee is town, then again Galz is lying. What the heck is Eevee's special power again?

About Grujah, yeah this definitely more like town-Grujah.

yuma, I'd rather no claiming yet. Too much action. That reminds me... I need to say something regarding that.

[yuma]

alright, bedtime for me then... bye all

[Eevee]

So frustrating to get a super town role and then finding myself in this situation!! Nothing I can do to prove myself? anything? all my actions have been what I deemed to be the most pro
town with my very complicated but strong role.

[ashersky]

Actually gonna bold this;

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

Okay let me try to reason this out. We know Insomniac is town. Therefore he was telling the truth. One QT now among Eevee and Galzria. If Eevee is telling the truth, he has no QT. Then Galz could be a Mason, having access to a QT. One problem with that; he claimed Strongman Vig. Galz is lying here. This is what I'm seeing.

Is there a scenario where Galz IS a strongman vig and Eevee is a bulletproof scum?? Well then Galz knew Eevee was scum pretty much, on the account that Insom was telling the truth. Insom provided a lot of evidence I felt, I would have shot Eevee over Insom in Galz' situation personally.

Eevee is being kinda hedgy here, he's acting weird.

You are fighting this really hard. Quite simply: I didn't honestly believe Eevee was the only other MA in the game, and while Insomniac gave enough evidence to more or less prove he's MA, nothing he provided proved he was town - as was discussed to death yesterday.

At the end of the day, letting Scum!Insomniac live and shooting Town!Eevee was a worse proposition than letting Scum!Eevee live and shooting Town!Insomniac.

I AM the Strongman, and Insomniac WAS town. So was Robz. Now do the math.

Can you answer my Q?  No more vig shots, right?  Are you basically the new Wizard?

[Eevee]

i wasn't saying lynch galz. we have FOUR flips..

[ashersky]

Reason I'm asking is I am way more resistant to lynching you as part of a trade if you are upgraded.

[sparky5856]

About me defending Robz earlier... what I was thinking was that if we could get everyone to claim, scum would have to make up a card, and there could be some counterclaiming. Not my best plan of action, as the scum would know all the PR's. And because others took him seriously, I took him seriously as well. When someone says, "Seriously, let's do this." I take them seriously. When they're not serious, I get peeved. :/

[Grujah]

Ashersky, Axxle, and yuma are all briefly illuminated with a bright blue flash of light.

Galz, why didn't you choose Eevee among these 3?

[ashersky]

SK killed Volt.  Any guesses who that is?  Is SK hunting helpful?

[ashersky]

Ashersky, Axxle, and yuma are all briefly illuminated with a bright blue flash of light.

Galz, why didn't you choose Eevee among these 3?

He chose a suit.

[Grujah]

also, fuzzy, go to sleep, its 7 AM.

[sparky5856]

SK killed Volt.  Any guesses who that is?  Is SK hunting helpful?

I don't know but lynching Eevee would clear up Galz. I tend to think less NK's by scum = good, guess I gotta think about the edge cases.

[Galzria]

Actually gonna bold this;

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

Okay let me try to reason this out. We know Insomniac is town. Therefore he was telling the truth. One QT now among Eevee and Galzria. If Eevee is telling the truth, he has no QT. Then Galz could be a Mason, having access to a QT. One problem with that; he claimed Strongman Vig. Galz is lying here. This is what I'm seeing.

Is there a scenario where Galz IS a strongman vig and Eevee is a bulletproof scum?? Well then Galz knew Eevee was scum pretty much, on the account that Insom was telling the truth. Insom provided a lot of evidence I felt, I would have shot Eevee over Insom in Galz' situation personally.

Eevee is being kinda hedgy here, he's acting weird.

You are fighting this really hard. Quite simply: I didn't honestly believe Eevee was the only other MA in the game, and while Insomniac gave enough evidence to more or less prove he's MA, nothing he provided proved he was town - as was discussed to death yesterday.

At the end of the day, letting Scum!Insomniac live and shooting Town!Eevee was a worse proposition than letting Scum!Eevee live and shooting Town!Insomniac.

I AM the Strongman, and Insomniac WAS town. So was Robz. Now do the math.

Can you answer my Q?  No more vig shots, right?  Are you basically the new Wizard?

Mobile posting, trying to get to everything:

Grujah was the Strongman LAST Arcana game. That's how he knows my strangling in genuine to my claim. Further, just like he did last game, we both strangled Major Arcana and got a ONE SHOT use of their power. In this case I got "Detect Magic", which makes people of a suit I name glow blue. I named Wands. Ashersky, Yuma and Axxle gowed blue.
,

[Grujah]

"Detect Magic"

lol, just DMed a DnD game today, and when I saw the big blue letters, I internally named it "Detect Magic" as well.

[Galzria]

Ok, Ins died, something is going to happen, or has already happened.

I was right for railing Jimmm. Volt was so silent, I am not surprised, but I did not expect it. Next one on my list (after Jimm) was Arch. So, vote: Archetype

As for Galz vs Eevee - I think Galz is to be lynched.

Eevee is likely a cult. Consider:

Joth was shot (Mafia kill).
Both Mafia were ripped to shreds (WW kills)
I Strangled Insomniac. (Strongman, or possibly SK (although that's usually a knife))

Now, Insomniac claimed one of Robz (confirmed town), myself, or Eevee had a QT. Neither a Strongman, nor an SK would have one. That rules me out, leaving only Eevee.

Given that Robz was town, the only "town" role Eevee could be is BP Townie. But go back and look at his aversion to claiming, and tell me if that makes any sense to you? However, if he's the other Major Arcana, then what he is and does is a complete mystery - outside of one thing: He lied about having a QT.

--- Also, having killed Insomniac, I inherited his power (1-shot), which I can now use. I have "Detect Magic", which allows me to name a suit and see all players that own a card of it's type.

I have requested to see all Wands players. It's a WW suit, and it houses the BP Townie.

Ashersky, Axxle, and yuma are all briefly illuminated with a bright blue flash of light.

[sparky5856]

Ok, Ins died, something is going to happen, or has already happened.

I was right for railing Jimmm. Volt was so silent, I am not surprised, but I did not expect it. Next one on my list (after Jimm) was Arch. So, vote: Archetype

As for Galz vs Eevee - I think Galz is to be lynched.

Eevee is likely a cult. Consider:

Joth was shot (Mafia kill).
Both Mafia were ripped to shreds (WW kills)
I Strangled Insomniac. (Strongman, or possibly SK (although that's usually a knife))

Now, Insomniac claimed one of Robz (confirmed town), myself, or Eevee had a QT. Neither a Strongman, nor an SK would have one. That rules me out, leaving only Eevee.

Given that Robz was town, the only "town" role Eevee could be is BP Townie. But go back and look at his aversion to claiming, and tell me if that makes any sense to you? However, if he's the other Major Arcana, then what he is and does is a complete mystery - outside of one thing: He lied about having a QT.

--- Also, having killed Insomniac, I inherited his power (1-shot), which I can now use. I have "Detect Magic", which allows me to name a suit and see all players that own a card of it's type.

I have requested to see all Wands players. It's a WW suit, and it houses the BP Townie.

Ashersky, Axxle, and yuma are all briefly illuminated with a bright blue flash of light.

Wait what I missed this.

Oh my brain malfunctioning. UNVOTE for now. I'm going with my plan. VOTE: Eevee.

[cayvie]

Vote Count 2.1

Eevee (3): Galzria, Grujah, sparky5856

Not Voting (8): Eevee, yuma, Archetype, Lekkit, shraeye, ashersky, Cuzz, Axxle

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!

[sparky5856]

Hold on UNVOTE

Everyone needs to get in here! This game is progressing way too fast.

[sparky5856]

Not sure how many people are gonna be here today and tomorrow though, with it being holidays and all.

[sparky5856]

This is a good way to increase your post count 

Okay so to recap... there WAS a strongman kill. If there's another strongman vig, why didn't he counterclaim? There's only one of them. So, Galz shot Insom. Both Galz and Robz didn't have a QT. Eevee therefore has a QT. okay so yeah, I'm comfortable with an Eevee lynch then.

[sparky5856]

well does everyone even need to come in here then. just noticed the deadline is short.

So, this is how I play huh? Increase your level of activity to prime when everyone is away and to none when all the action is going on? Uh-huh, yeah, there's a consistent meta for me.

[cayvie]

well does everyone even need to come in here then. just noticed the deadline is short.

aw jeez i'm bad at counting, changing deadline

[sparky5856]

oh, kay then. that's cool

Okay for starters VOTE: Galzria.

Now, I'm upset that I missed most of the action yesterday.  That's my own fault though #f.ds's biggest lurker

I've read the game over the night so I'm caught up to speed, I'll post my thoughts on everyone because... hell, it's the least I can do >_<

Also what's with the flash of light?

Not only does he lurk, he's also quite slow in the head.

playing kickball when you're board is fun. I should probably go to sleep too.

Galz in the clear, Eevee is dead meat. Not sure what needs to be discussed about that. If there is soemthing, that's cool, I'm down with it. there's time.

[Archetype]

I'm shortly here sparky.

SO MUCH has happened! 4 deaths?!? I have one little thing about Galz that I want to talk about, but I want to save it for later. I may bring it up, I just have to double check some stuff.

[Archetype]

Huh. That's strange.

I'll have to wait for Galz to get here.

[Archetype]

Oh wait, he is online.

Hi Galz!

[Galzria]

Oh wait, he is online.

Hi Galz!

Doing other things, but semi-around, yes.

[Archetype]

I'll wait for later to say it, or I just won't at all. It's probably not too important.

I'll have to think about it some more.

I think I want to lynch Galz today. I don't really want to lynch another MA (especially if he's town) and Galz is a named VT now while having a MA as scum would be powerful.

But there is Grujah's 'proof' that Galz is the Strongman and Eevee has been scrambling.

I honestly don't know. This whole Galz/Eevee/Insomniac/Robz thing makes my brain hurt. Either of them could honestly be scum, especially after confTown Insomniac suspected Galz more than Robz.


I'm going to do Vote: Galzria. I'll be rereading a bunch though to try and figure this mess out. I do think that one of these 2 should be our lynch candidates for today.

I do feel like Eevee is keeping something secret from us. I cant tell if it's a scummy secret, or a towny secret. I'm more towards scummy secret.

[ashersky]

Galz has confirmed he's a named VT at best at this point.  Based on that, I do feel like it's possibly good to lynch him today, let Eevee do whatever he can do try and prove his towniness overnight, and then just lynch Eevee tomorrow if we need to.  It's a 1 for 1 trade at worst, or we've saved our only other MA at best.

Is that way off? 

[Galzria]

Galz has confirmed he's a named VT at best at this point.  Based on that, I do feel like it's possibly good to lynch him today, let Eevee do whatever he can do try and prove his towniness overnight, and then just lynch Eevee tomorrow if we need to.  It's a 1 for 1 trade at worst, or we've saved our only other MA at best.

Is that way off?

You honestly think it's a better idea to let likely-scum Arcana free to live for a night, having no clue what he's capable of doing?

Honestly, what fantasy world are you living in? Insomniac was town. He didn't lie. I am confirmed Strongman, named VT. Robz was town. That means that Eevee MUST have a QT, and is lying. What are you waiting for him to prove?

Really, saying "Let's lynch town and give scum another night to live, then lynch scum" is an absolutely terrible way to play. There is literally nothing else I can be but Strongman. Strangle = Strong, and I can't be some "flavor manipulating MA" because there are no other MA's.

So yeah, you're completely off base, and if you're town, you're really just being lazy and not bothering to look at any real evidence.

[Archetype]

Im still questioning why Galz decided to kill Insom.

I mean, I thought he was Town. And he was a MA! Galz, could you please explain?

[Galzria]

Actually, hermit does sound like a SK role - he is alone and goes around silting people's necks.

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

Read everything Robz wrote as he died. He was 100% right. My PM to Cayvie was basically this:

"If Ins is lying, and I kill Eevee, I've likely just killed the BP-Townie, while leaving scum Arcana alive (it's clear Ins isn't lying about being Arcana). What's worse, is people will instantly lynch me next, giving Insomniac and the other scum a free night to reign over us.

If Ins is lying and I kill him - great!

If Ins is telling the truth, then Eevee is MA Scum. This is a scary proposition. BUT, if I kill Insomniac now, there's a good chance he'll be Doctored. This will prove my towniness (well, that and the strangling), AND I'll likely inherit a power to help town. This path would (hopefully) lead to Eevee being revealed and not living to see another night."

---

Yes, it was a risky move, but being wrong (which I was) was less bad going this route, then being wrong going the other route.

[Galzria]

Actually gonna bold this;

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

Okay let me try to reason this out. We know Insomniac is town. Therefore he was telling the truth. One QT now among Eevee and Galzria. If Eevee is telling the truth, he has no QT. Then Galz could be a Mason, having access to a QT. One problem with that; he claimed Strongman Vig. Galz is lying here. This is what I'm seeing.

Is there a scenario where Galz IS a strongman vig and Eevee is a bulletproof scum?? Well then Galz knew Eevee was scum pretty much, on the account that Insom was telling the truth. Insom provided a lot of evidence I felt, I would have shot Eevee over Insom in Galz' situation personally.

Eevee is being kinda hedgy here, he's acting weird.

You are fighting this really hard. Quite simply: I didn't honestly believe Eevee was the only other MA in the game, and while Insomniac gave enough evidence to more or less prove he's MA, nothing he provided proved he was town - as was discussed to death yesterday.

At the end of the day, letting Scum!Insomniac live and shooting Town!Eevee was a worse proposition than letting Scum!Eevee live and shooting Town!Insomniac.

I AM the Strongman, and Insomniac WAS town. So was Robz. Now do the math.

[Galzria]

Robz wanting to Vig me is ridiculous. YES my claim makes me more like death, I promise I'm town and this isn't a gambit.

Pros to lynching Robz: He wants to vig me, didn't note a role in the list he keeps toting everyone to know, and tried to dayvig eevee when there was no consensus

Pros to lynching Galz: The wording above was used TWICE. Because there is only one QT between the 3 players it is IMPOSSIBLE for Robz to be scum and also vig scum, although I still think Robz would have dayvigged as scum.

I know I am town, and I know eevee is town, so if Galzria is actually town, he should shoot you. Is Galzria actually town? Probably not, but it's possible. I think it's less possible now that you've explained fully.

Volt, if Eevee is a bulletproof scum major arcana... I mean I'm just not weighing that option all too seriously.

If I flip town, do you all agree (other than galz), that Eevee should not die? I think that's like obvious.

But most importantly of all, THIS:

Galz, why wouldn't scum-MA-Eevee have a QT?  O was a scum Major Arcana in the first game, and he had a QT.

So... You think that not only did Insomniac find the only other MA in the game, but that MA is part of a scum team, and is bullet-proof? AND Insomniac found the Dayvig, who just happened to shoot the second MA to no effect?

Or, you know, Occam's Razor:

He found 1 scum!team player, and 2 notscum!team players. If I'm scum (which you'll know I'm not upon my lynch), then he found both the 1-shot Dayvig, and the bullet-proof VT, AND they happened to collide to no effect.

Except that goes out the window after my flip. What he found, was Scum!Robz (King of Swords). He found me (5 of Pentacles, as claimed in my 5th game post), and he found Eevee, who could be either Nine of Wands (BPVT), OR Ace of Wands (Mafia Immune SK).

Even without knowing for a fact yet that I'm town, Occam's razor says that option 3 is the most likely, since it isn't a 1-in-the-entire-deck chance that Robz' dayvig fails. And even if you're considering me scum now, options 2 & 3 are still far, far more likely than option 1.

Not to mention, my god, freaking READ Robz. This is the SAME ROBZ that gunned for my head as hard as could, throwing out bad case after bad case in the very latest blitz game, all the whole going "Scum Robz wouldn't play like this! He wouldn't make cases like this! He wouldn't paint himself into a Robz or Galz like this!".

Look, I don't MIND dying here. I'm town, and I'll take a 1-1 trade every single day of the week and twice on Sunday. But Robz IS scum. And there's a higher than average chance Eevee is too. If I'm not the only Vig in the game, Eevee should be shot tonight. If he's WW-Immune, he won't block regular kills. Robz should be lynched tomorrow.

Obviously, Robz not being scum was a blow... But I honestly DID NOT think that Insomniac happened to find both Vig's AND the other MA, who just HAPPENED to be Bullet-Proof (and if Insomniac was telling the truth, then after Robz' death I ALSO would've had to accept that the second MA was bullet-proof scum that he found).

It honestly just didn't seem very bloody likely. Not compared to the idea that Insomniac might be lying MA scum.

[Archetype]

Alright. It did seem like killing Insomniac was the best way to varify the QT thing. Thanks for the reply.

I'll Vote: Eevee. This vote is not definite, but Galz's explanation was good enough for me to vote for Eevee. Well that and Eevee's general scumminess and scrambling. I really do want him to prove he is Town, I don't really want us to lose another TownMA. But until then, this vote stays there.

[Cuzz]

shit shit shit this is like the fastest moving game of all time and I'm so behind already. Just popping in to remind folks that I'm in this game and alive and will try to be useful once I catch up.

[Eevee]

How have I been scrambling? I was and am phone posting, surely the formatting is a little wacky - I just type stuff and hit post.

Galzria, I feel you are dodging my questions. I dont know whats up! I dont particularly want to lynch you, the only explanations for for all this i csn imagine are a) Ins made a mistake / some redirecting power messed up his results or b) you gained some flavour manipulation powers from killing him.
I am town! And I claimed power role who can prove it!! I wish Robz was here to yell people you shouldn't lynch those..

I realize this seems unlikely to you, which is very frustrating to me. But really, isnt the alternative rather scummy as well?

[Grujah]

I am town! And I claimed power role who can prove it!! I wish Robz was here to yell people you shouldn't lynch those..

As I said, and I think robz would agree, you can prove power but not alligence.

[Eevee]

I am town! And I claimed power role who can prove it!! I wish Robz was here to yell people you shouldn't lynch those..

As I said, and I think robz would agree, you can prove power but not alligence.

I think my power is such that it doesnt make sense as a non-bastard scum role. It would be negative utility!

[Grujah]

If you want to make such remarks, and have them taken seriously, you do need to do a full claim. I am not leaving a MA alive on the basis of "My rule is supercool and supercrazy, and trust me, I'm town" when proof says that Galz is, in fact, town.

[Lekkit]

Vla for the day. New years and all that. I was s bitsuspicious of Eevee yesterday, and im more suspicious now. I would vote for him if I wasnt going vla. wil maybe pop in later.

[Eevee]

If you want to make such remarks, and have them taken seriously, you do need to do a full claim. I am not leaving a MA alive on the basis of "My rule is supercool and supercrazy, and trust me, I'm town" when proof says that Galz is, in fact, town.

I think Galz being town is more probable than him being scum (which was a tough pill for me to swallow knowing my own alignment). Clearly something weird has happened, but lynching a town major arcana is not going to help us much. Going into a 26 hour VLA now, happy new years!

[Lekkit]

and dont do anyrhing hasty...

[shraeye]

Some Eevee stuff

I'll lightning rod tonight. If my BP was one shot, I'll die..

Except...Doctors...

Yeahh, this is why I didnt want to claim and also why I think not claiming would have been the correct move if I was the bulletproof townie. I'm a major arcana, the hermit. I'm a bulletproof one-shot lightning rod. I'd rather not claim everything it means, because i think that could instruct scum on how to construct their night actions.

I DO NOT have a qt though. Everyone, does a bulletproof cult leader (or any other type of scum) just make any sense at all? This is not a bastard game. I can prove I'm a lightning rod next night.

Unless someone can explain galz strangling people, I'm really lost though. no one but the strongman vigilante should be able to do that, but I know I just don't have a qt.

Why didn't you just lighting tonight, that would pretty much prove it.

If you are bulletproof oneshot lightning rod, and town - you pretty much just need to activate rod once and than prove your towniness and than you cannot die.

That is even less logical.

Also I agree with this.  Oneshot lightning rod that is full bullet proof as Eevee was claiming?  This would be a breaking strategy, something about Eevee's claim isn't fully fleshed out.  And Eevee could be doing this to avoid giving the juicy details of his role for scum to mess with.  But ask ourselves this.  cayvie is randomly drawing cards and wants to make a fun, balanced game.  Does she give BOTH Major Arcana roles a town-alignment?  No.  Then town is overpowered.


On a semi-related note from ashersky/Grujah interaction:

BTW - Grujah shooting questions and posts in a rapidly fashing, like right now - town Grujah.
Take a note for further games.

Are you town? 

I believe his towniness, this is how I remember town-Grujah acting.

[shraeye]

Actually, hermit does sound like a SK role - he is alone and goes around silting people's necks.

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

Read everything Robz wrote as he died. He was 100% right. My PM to Cayvie was basically this:

"If Ins is lying, and I kill Eevee, I've likely just killed the BP-Townie, while leaving scum Arcana alive (it's clear Ins isn't lying about being Arcana). What's worse, is people will instantly lynch me next, giving Insomniac and the other scum a free night to reign over us.

If Ins is lying and I kill him - great!

If Ins is telling the truth, then Eevee is MA Scum. This is a scary proposition. BUT, if I kill Insomniac now, there's a good chance he'll be Doctored. This will prove my towniness (well, that and the strangling), AND I'll likely inherit a power to help town. This path would (hopefully) lead to Eevee being revealed and not living to see another night."

---

Yes, it was a risky move, but being wrong (which I was) was less bad going this route, then being wrong going the other route.

This is a very reasonable explanation.  I buy Galzria's towniness.  Here's another weird thing related to this all.

i wasn't saying lynch galz. we have FOUR flips..

Why not lynch Galz? If you're town AND if Insom's information was correct (and it did come from a towny), then Galz must somehow be lying.

[shraeye]

Actually gonna bold this;

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

maybe cuz you knew you had strangler flavor as scum and wanted to prove your "towness" with it?

how though? how!


 i don't get any of the good stuff before I use the rod, but the more I wait the better the stuff is.

Bulletproof isn't 'good stuff'?

I think I want to lynch Galz today. I don't really want to lynch another MA (especially if he's town) and Galz is a named VT now while having a MA as scum would be powerful.

Again, highly unlikely that both MAs are town in my opinion.

Reason I'm asking is I am way more resistant to lynching you as part of a trade if you are upgraded.

I'd be happy to lynch upgraded scum.  Town actually did great last night, killing two mafias.  We don't need to bank on upgraded Eevee being town, and if he's not that will be an enormous thorn in our side.

Grujah, would you be satisfied with me vigged the following night?

I wouldn't be satisfied with this.  You already survived one vigging.

[Archetype]

I think its possible both MAs could be Town. Both MAs were scum last game.

I really think Eevee should fullclaim. I dont think I want to let him undber the basis of "I'm a MA so you should let me live!!"

I mean, it would suck if we lose him and he's Town, but it would suck even more if we let him live and he's Scum.

We could just No Lynch, or lynch someone else today. We see if Eevee Lightning Rods. If he does, that means he is most likely Town and then we lynch Galz. If he doesnt, then we lynch Eevee tommorow.

But then if Eevee's power really gets better as the game goes on, do we really want to keep him alive if he's Scum?

[sparky5856]

Already said, just because he Lightning Rod's doesn't mean the status of his alignment changes. ftl was a scum lightning rod in Robz's mega-game. With Eevee being Bulletproof, a Lightning-Rod power makes sense, so I wouldn't be surprised if he did possess that power.

[Eevee]

super skimmed, sheaye almost aggravates me. ithink I've explained this like 4 times, I csnt think of any other way for galz to be scum other than scum redirecting Ins,
galz gaining flavour-inventing powers from killing Ins or Ins just making a mistake.

also the major arcanas are randomized just like any other roles, two of them
being town aligned isnt weird at all

[Grujah]

Arch I am confortable lynching after Eevee. They we he hedged about eevee at start, and his big Galzria accusatory post at start of day scratched an itch, coupled with his super friendliness D1.

[Archetype]

Already said, just because he Lightning Rod's doesn't mean the status of his alignment changes. ftl was a scum lightning rod in Robz's mega-game. With Eevee being Bulletproof, a Lightning-Rod power makes sense, so I wouldn't be surprised if he did possess that power.

I know. That's why I said most likely Town. Not obvtown.

I think if Eevee were scum, he would be self aligned. I can't see someone with the name Hermit being part of a WW or Mafia team.

[Grujah]

Though, we might want to focus on these:
"Ashersky, Axxle, and yuma"

As there sure are werewolves, and them are likely to be some. Axxle is mia and yuma ain't as invisible with his D1 errors. Ash I don't know.

[Archetype]

If Eevee is self-aligned, if he gets lynched, I don't think it makes Galz obvtown.

[Galzria]

super skimmed, sheaye almost aggravates me. ithink I've explained this like 4 times, I csnt think of any other way for galz to be scum other than scum redirecting Ins,
galz gaining flavour-inventing powers from killing Ins or Ins just making a mistake.

also the major arcanas are randomized just like any other roles, two of them
being town aligned isnt weird at all

A) Insomniac couldn't be redirected. He choose the spell N0, and cast it on his choice of targets D1. Redirector is a night role, if it exists at all.

B) So the theory is that I claimed Strongman (yesterday), and claimed that I strangle (yesterday), but somehow had it all planned that I would kill Insomniac, gain "flavor manipulating powers", and use them to clear myself? Even though we had no clue to date what insomniac's MA did, and there was nothing to indicate "flavor manipulation" about him, and ADDITIONALLY, I got a 1-shot Detect Magic?

Uh-huh. Check. Got it.

[Galzria]

If Eevee is self-aligned, if he gets lynched, I don't think it makes Galz obvtown.

I would LOVE to hear an actual theory that has any, you know, logic to the contrary.

[Grujah]

If Eevee is self-aligned, if he gets lynched, I don't think it makes Galz obvtown.

I would LOVE to hear an actual theory that has any, you know, logic to the contrary.

I was to post about that, but figured that he means, if Eevee is self-aligned, we might have a QT missing. So, that would be yours, kinda.

To me, you'll almost already obvtown.

[Galzria]

If Eevee is self-aligned, if he gets lynched, I don't think it makes Galz obvtown.

I would LOVE to hear an actual theory that has any, you know, logic to the contrary.

I was to post about that, but figured that he means, if Eevee is self-aligned, we might have a QT missing. So, that would be yours, kinda.

To me, you'll almost already obvtown.

Ah, I understand that perspective.

[Grujah]

I know I might be too stuck on flavor, but I got killed by Morg by same mistake last game..

[Archetype]

If Eevee is self-aligned, if he gets lynched, I don't think it makes Galz obvtown.

I would LOVE to hear an actual theory that has any, you know, logic to the contrary.

I was to post about that, but figured that he means, if Eevee is self-aligned, we might have a QT missing. So, that would be yours, kinda.

To me, you'll almost already obvtown.

Ah, I understand that perspective.

Yes, that is what I meant. Thanks for explaining Grujah.

I mean I guess Eevee could be self-aligned with his own QT, but that just doesn't seem likely. Of course, I could be not worrying about anything. But just speculating out-loud.

[Galzria]

I know I might be too stuck on flavor, but I got killed by Morg by same mistake last game..

Don't worry, if Eevee doesn't flip some sort of scum with a QT, I'm seriously going to go bonkers at Cayvie in a PM. (Which I'll then happily share with the dead players QT which I would be sure to join the following day).

[Archetype]

I know I might be too stuck on flavor, but I got killed by Morg by same mistake last game..

Don't worry, if Eevee doesn't flip some sort of scum with a QT, I'm seriously going to go bonkers at Cayvie in a PM. (Which I'll then happily share with the dead players QT which I would be sure to join the following day).

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Grujah seems to really want me lynched tomorrow.

[Eevee]

believe me, I'm going bonkers to galz via pm as it is. SO FRUSTRATING

[sparky5856]

Yes, that is what I meant. Thanks for explaining Grujah.

I mean I guess Eevee could be self-aligned with his own QT, but that just doesn't seem likely. Of course, I could be not worrying about anything. But just speculating out-loud.

One thing to confirm:  Insom, if a player is a Serial Killer, then I assume you wouldn't see them as having a QT, right?  (As Death in Major Arcana I, I was classified as a Serial Killer and I did not have a QT.)

Doesn't mean Eevee doesn't have one, but makes it far less likely.

[Archetype]

Yes, that is what I meant. Thanks for explaining Grujah.

I mean I guess Eevee could be self-aligned with his own QT, but that just doesn't seem likely. Of course, I could be not worrying about anything. But just speculating out-loud.

One thing to confirm:  Insom, if a player is a Serial Killer, then I assume you wouldn't see them as having a QT, right?  (As Death in Major Arcana I, I was classified as a Serial Killer and I did not have a QT.)

Doesn't mean Eevee doesn't have one, but makes it far less likely.

Yes, I know.

That's why I think I'm most likely not worrying about anything, but might as well mention it.

[Eevee]

being mislynched as THIS ROLE will be the most frustrating moment of my mafia career this far.

nominate insomniac to the most antitown town power role performance ever

[cayvie]

believe me, I'm going bonkers to galz via pm as it is. SO FRUSTRATING

you better not be

[yuma]

Though, we might want to focus on these:
"Ashersky, Axxle, and yuma"

As there sure are werewolves, and them are likely to be some. Axxle is mia and yuma ain't as invisible with his D1 errors. Ash I don't know.

What errors are you speaking of? I don't think I have made any. I think others have made errors in interpreting what I was saying.

[yuma]

Well I don't see any reason to not vote: eevee.

I see Galz's reasoning for killing Insomniac and understand it, but man I hate to lose town aligned MA.

<que Eevee saying "well you are about to kill another one>

I don't think we are. At this point in the game if Insomniac was right--and there isn't any reason for him to be wrong--it is either you or Galz. And I don't see any reason for it to be Galz at this point.

[cayvie]

Vote Count 2.2

Eevee (4): Galzria, Grujah, Archetype, yuma [L-2]

Not Voting (7): Eevee, Lekkit, shraeye, ashersky, Cuzz, Axxle, sparky5856

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!

[shraeye]

Something i want to go back and check, is how eevee was acting in relation to Galz/Robz yesterday.  Today he seems to be acting most suspicious of Insomniac's info, or some manipulation, since he is admitting that Galz looks towny.  What was his line yesterday regarding this?  I'm not quite sure, and I don't have the time right now to dig up some research.

[Lekkit]

Vote: Eevee

I don't see how using your lightning rod ability would prove your towniness, and EVERYTHING points towards you being scum. Or at least lie about your QT. Which wouldn't really make sense if you are town. I haven't really heard anything that would change my mind about you. You don't really answer questions and you're really vague, and was yesterday too.

[ashersky]

I am willing to hammer now.  Are we waiting for anything?

[sparky5856]

I don't know. I mean, the fact that we're progressing so quickly is merely our doing. The claiming forced some direct evidence out, which eliminates the discussion needed to discover the other scum the way that, well, I'm used to. Is that gonna bite us later? (Well, we generated like 27 pages, which isn't that bad I guess.)

[Archetype]

I am willing to hammer now.  Are we waiting for anything?

I'd wait for a few others to weigh in / Eevee's final words. We still have a bunch of time before the deadline.

I think nearly everyone has told what they think, but I still want to hear from Axxle and Cuzz.

[shraeye]

I am willing to hammer now.  Are we waiting for anything?

I'd wait for a few others to weigh in / Eevee's final words. We still have a bunch of time before the deadline.

I think nearly everyone has told what they think, but I still want to hear from Axxle and Cuzz.

Yes, I would like to here from Axxle, i'm fairly sure he hasn't weighed in yet.  Can't remember if Cuzz has.  I'm pro-Eevee's lynch as well, but would like to hear a bit more from others first.

[Axxle]

Reading through now, should I still claim?

[Axxle]

It's incredibly obvious eevee is scum. Intent to hammer.

[ashersky]

It's incredibly obvious eevee is scum. Intent to hammer.

I called hammer earlier!

[Eevee]

My soul and my spirit will go on!
Sorry I betrayed you my dear cult. Bring flowers to my grave. Feed my fish. Recruit Galzria next and win this thing for me!

[ashersky]

My soul and my spirit will go on!
Sorry I betrayed you my dear cult. Bring flowers to my grave. Feed my fish. Recruit Galzria next and win this thing for me!

If you're town, stop that crap.  Oh, but you aren't town.

I mean, at least give your final reads and stuff.

[Eevee]

If I play nice and try to help you with my reads, will you let me live? (I'm self-aligned.)

[Eevee]

I can maybe help you catch some scum.

[ashersky]

If I play nice and try to help you with my reads, will you let me live? (I'm self-aligned.)

Will you start with a full claim?

Are we allowed to copy PMs into posts? If so, do that if you really want to buy any cred to help scum hunt.

[ashersky]

If I play nice and try to help you with my reads, will you let me live? (I'm self-aligned.)

Will you start with a full claim?

Are we allowed to copy PMs into posts? If so, do that if you really want to buy any cred to help scum hunt.

Nevermind, first post says no quoting.  But really, full claim.

[Eevee]

I serially kill people. The lightning rod part is true, so is the full bulletproof. I'm investigation-immune on the night I rod.

[ashersky]

I serially kill people. The lightning rod part is true, so is the full bulletproof. I'm investigation-immune on the night I rod.

Who'd you kill last night?

[Archetype]

If I play nice and try to help you with my reads, will you let me live? (I'm self-aligned.)

Hah! I knew it! 

[Eevee]

I serially kill people. The lightning rod part is true, so is the full bulletproof. I'm investigation-immune on the night I rod.

Who'd you kill last night?

Volt. Dude is scary good.

[Archetype]

Well wait a second, if Eevee is self aligned, then would he have a QT?

Unvote.

[Archetype]

You don't have a QT...right?

[ashersky]

You don't have a QT...right?

It's clear that he or Galz does.  MA with crazy powers?  Maybe the QT is for the lightning rod?  Mod needed it to just put everything together?  Galz is lying?  I don't know.

[Archetype]

You don't have a QT...right?

It's clear that he or Galz does.  MA with crazy powers?  Maybe the QT is for the lightning rod?  Mod needed it to just put everything together?  Galz is lying?  I don't know.

Lynching a MA isn't good, but letting a scum one live isn't good either.

What are we going to do after we lynch Eevee? Lynch Galz?

[cayvie]

If I play nice and try to help you with my reads, will you let me live? (I'm self-aligned.)

Will you start with a full claim?

Are we allowed to copy PMs into posts? If so, do that if you really want to buy any cred to help scum hunt.

read the rules

(hell no)

[Eevee]

I have a QT with cayvie. We have a lot of fun in there! (I get to daychat as well, have been raging hardcore at getting caught today.)

[Archetype]

I have a QT with cayvie. We have a lot of fun in there! (I get to daychat as well, have been raging hardcore at getting caught today.)

I cant tell if this is legit or not.

[ashersky]

I have a QT with cayvie. We have a lot of fun in there! (I get to daychat as well, have been raging hardcore at getting caught today.)

I cant tell if this is legit or not.

I mean...I guess I can see it.

You don't have a QT...right?

It's clear that he or Galz does.  MA with crazy powers?  Maybe the QT is for the lightning rod?  Mod needed it to just put everything together?  Galz is lying?  I don't know.

Lynching a MA isn't good, but letting a scum one live isn't good either.

What are we going to do after we lynch Eevee? Lynch Galz?

I agree here.  I was ready and willing to hammer, but I'll admit I'm waffling a bit, just from the fear of lynching an MA.  I mean, cayviegames are famous for this, right?

Is there no one else to even focus on right now?  Eevee's the easy lynch, and that never feels good, because easy lynches end up being town a lot...

[Archetype]

I have a QT with cayvie. We have a lot of fun in there! (I get to daychat as well, have been raging hardcore at getting caught today.)

I cant tell if this is legit or not.

I mean...I guess I can see it

I don't know. I vaguely remember Eevee saying earlier 'I don't have a QT'. But I guess anyone would have said that to avoid suspicion.

[shraeye]

I think somebody unvoted.  I'll compensate for them.

Vote: Eevee

[cayvie]

Vote Count 2.3

Eevee (5): Galzria, Grujah, yuma, Lekkit, shraeye [L-1]

Not Voting (6): Eevee, shraeye, ashersky, Cuzz, Axxle, sparky5856, Archetype

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!

[Archetype]

I think somebody unvoted.  I'll compensate for them.

Vote: Eevee

Yeah, that was me. Wasn't sure about the QT thing, but I think Eevee is lying.


But she's scum none the less. I can hammer, but I think ashersky wants to.

[ashersky]

I think somebody unvoted.  I'll compensate for them.

Vote: Eevee

Yeah, that was me. Wasn't sure about the QT thing, but I think Eevee is lying.


But she's scum none the less. I can hammer, but I think ashersky wants to.

We've got 8 days to deadline...do we want to end this day?  No bankable time or anything.  We can hammer if we want, but no one's around, right?

On a side note--this game is awesome!  And it's going really well I think, with two mafia dead already!

[Archetype]

I think somebody unvoted.  I'll compensate for them.

Vote: Eevee

Yeah, that was me. Wasn't sure about the QT thing, but I think Eevee is lying.


But she's he's scum none the less. I can hammer, but I think ashersky wants to.

FTFM. Eevee's a male.

Though maybe we let him live. He did catch 1 scum.

But he's scum himself, and could turn on us at anytime. Especially if his powers do get good as the game goes on.

[Archetype]

I think somebody unvoted.  I'll compensate for them.

Vote: Eevee

Yeah, that was me. Wasn't sure about the QT thing, but I think Eevee is lying.


But she's scum none the less. I can hammer, but I think ashersky wants to.

We've got 8 days to deadline...do we want to end this day?  No bankable time or anything.  We can hammer if we want, but no one's around, right?

On a side note--this game is awesome!  And it's going really well I think, with two mafia dead already!

What else is there to talk about? I'm perfectly fine with waiting to hammer, but I think if we're waiting, someone should unvote so that we don't derphammer Eevee before everyone's done talking.

[ashersky]

I think somebody unvoted.  I'll compensate for them.

Vote: Eevee

Yeah, that was me. Wasn't sure about the QT thing, but I think Eevee is lying.


But she's scum none the less. I can hammer, but I think ashersky wants to.

We've got 8 days to deadline...do we want to end this day?  No bankable time or anything.  We can hammer if we want, but no one's around, right?

On a side note--this game is awesome!  And it's going really well I think, with two mafia dead already!

What else is there to talk about? I'm perfectly fine with waiting to hammer, but I think if we're waiting, someone should unvote so that we don't derphammer Eevee before everyone's done talking.

There's the Wands discussion.  There's the why did people kill people on N1 discussion. There's still scum to hunt.

Eevee is scum, he's caught.  But SK serves a purpose, and he's a lynch in our pocket, right?  I mean, he's not lynchproof.  If we can direct his kills, he's like an extra town lynch.  The minute he deviates from the plan, boom we lynch him.  I guess I've never been in a game with an SK that was useful, but isn't this the best use of an SK for town?  Especially given the unknown number of scum remaining and the two factions to deal with.

[Archetype]

I think somebody unvoted.  I'll compensate for them.

Vote: Eevee

Yeah, that was me. Wasn't sure about the QT thing, but I think Eevee is lying.


But she's scum none the less. I can hammer, but I think ashersky wants to.

We've got 8 days to deadline...do we want to end this day?  No bankable time or anything.  We can hammer if we want, but no one's around, right?

On a side note--this game is awesome!  And it's going really well I think, with two mafia dead already!

What else is there to talk about? I'm perfectly fine with waiting to hammer, but I think if we're waiting, someone should unvote so that we don't derphammer Eevee before everyone's done talking.

There's the Wands discussion.  There's the why did people kill people on N1 discussion. There's still scum to hunt.

Eevee is scum, he's caught.  But SK serves a purpose, and he's a lynch in our pocket, right?  I mean, he's not lynchproof.  If we can direct his kills, he's like an extra town lynch.  The minute he deviates from the plan, boom we lynch him.  I guess I've never been in a game with an SK that was useful, but isn't this the best use of an SK for town?  Especially given the unknown number of scum remaining and the two factions to deal with.

I think we should keep him alive, the only problem is, he said he's going to get more powerful as the game goes on.

I highly suggests he fullclaims right now.

[sparky5856]

Is there a possibility that Eevee is still lying and he actually does have a faction, or did I miss something? I'm uncomfortable with the idea of letting a scum MA live.

[yuma]

unvote

[yuma]

I think that the person that kills Eevee may get an extra benefit--in the same way that Galz who killed Insomniac got an extra benefit--and I think that if Eevee is lynched, it will likely be the person with who hammers? I don't know... maybe I am making this up.

But if someone does get this benefit, it should be the person who is most townie. We don't want to give out this benefit to someone that is mafia!

So before Eevee gets lynched--and I think he should absolutely get lynched--there is 0% reason to not lynch him, we can't control him and if I were SK I wouldn't want town to win, I would gun for town with my NK--we should decide who the hammer vote will be....

[yuma]

from Mafia IX:

O:

Welcome to Mafia IX, Major Arcana Mafia.

You are the High Priestess.

You have keen intuitive awareness. You represent the archetype of the virginal daughter. Of love without sex. Of unrevealed secrets and hidden wisdom.

You are also a werewolf, with Captain_Frisk. Talk here (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/R4LQX4i4bs4) at night.

Once per day, you may call upon the spirits to answer a question truthfully. Do this by PMing it to the mod. This must be a yes/no question. The question and its truthful answer will be made public to the town. You, however, will remain anonymous.

You win when only werewolves remain alive, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.

Confirm in the game thread.

Secret info: whoever kills the High Priestess (including hammer vote) gets a 1-shot usage of her ability the following day

[sparky5856]

That would be Galz right? He's proven that he's the Strongman Vig, so he's named townie at this point.

[ashersky]

That would be Galz right? He's proven that he's the Strongman Vig, so he's named townie at this point.

Well, unless Eevee is lying and is a regular mafia/werewolf card holder, and Galzria is also lying and is actually an MA with strongman abilities.

[sparky5856]

Okay, Galz is already voting. So, he needs to unvote, someone puts Eevee at L-1, and then Galz hammers, if we're going with him of course.

[Galzria]

Unvote

Even in the completely backwards world just suggested by Ashersky where BOTH Eevee and I are lying (What's Eevee have to gain from that again? Oh, and while you're answering that, please explain Eevee surviving Robz Vig shot), then my hammering Eevee would give me no benefit since he's "just normal scum".

[ashersky]

Unvote

Even in the completely backwards world just suggested by Ashersky where BOTH Eevee and I are lying (What's Eevee have to gain from that again? Oh, and while you're answering that, please explain Eevee surviving Robz Vig shot), then my hammering Eevee would give me no benefit since he's "just normal scum".

You are right, I guess.  There's no bulletproof scum, right?  What about 9 of Pentacles?  Can you be 1-shot bulletproof from JOAT?

What Eevee gains from lying I do not know.


Do we really want Galz to get all the MA power in this game?  I'm still worried he's playing us.

[Archetype]

Is there a possibility that Eevee is still lying and he actually does have a faction, or did I miss something? I'm uncomfortable with the idea of letting a scum MA live.

It's definiatally a possibility, and something we shouldn't rule out.

I don't know, I guess it's possible. Just 'Hermit' sounds like a solitary and that he 'slit his throat' sounds Serial Killer-ish.

Plus, I think we have the NKs all accounted for:

Ripped to shreds = Werewolf

Bullet holes = Mafia

Strangled = Strongman Vig (Galz)

Throat slit = Serial Killer (Eevee)

I think that the person that kills Eevee may get an extra benefit--in the same way that Galz who killed Insomniac got an extra benefit--and I think that if Eevee is lynched, it will likely be the person with who hammers? I don't know... maybe I am making this up.

But if someone does get this benefit, it should be the person who is most townie. We don't want to give out this benefit to someone that is mafia!

I agree with you on this, and here's some theory on the last part.


If we look at this through Eevee's perspective:

Let's say he's a normal Serial Killer. He's screwed. Now that we know his kill flavor, if he steps out of line, even once, he's going to be lynched. And even if he listens to us, he's still going to be lynched as the game draws to a close. So he might as well follow along, and then screw Town up at the most pivotal part, risking the next day lynch.

But Eevee isn't a normal Serial Killer, he's a MA, which makes him even more dangerous:

Imagine the above scenario, but instead of just killing 1 Town member, completely screwing with Town by activating some super powerful power. He had Bulletproof and Lightning Rod. There's no telling what else he could be getting.

No, I think if we let him live, we let him live one day so that he could activate the Lightning Rod. Or he could not and kill someone that we need. It makes this tricky, so maybe it's better off that we just lynch him today. I don't know, but I agree with yuma that we should agree on someone to hammer just incase of some 1-shot power distribution.

In case I get called out on this later: I don't want to be called scummy later for not voting for Eevee if he flips scum. Everyone knows I find him scummy. There is a deliberate reason I'm not voting for him, and that reason is to prevent derphammers as well as ensure the towniest player is the one that hammers him instead of some random Joe.

[Axxle]

Unvote

Even in the completely backwards world just suggested by Ashersky where BOTH Eevee and I are lying (What's Eevee have to gain from that again? Oh, and while you're answering that, please explain Eevee surviving Robz Vig shot), then my hammering Eevee would give me no benefit since he's "just normal scum".

Vote: Eevee

[Galzria]

Vote: Eevee

[Axxle]

LAMAS
(Lynch all major arcana scum)

Why are we even thinking of letting him live? An unknown major arcana is incredibly dangerous.

[Archetype]

Do we really want Galz to get all the MA power in this game?  I'm still worried he's playing us.

Who do you think should get it?

[Archetype]

Do we really want Galz to get all the MA power in this game?  I'm still worried he's playing us.

Who do you think should get it?

I guess it doesnt matter now.

[ashersky]

Do we really want Galz to get all the MA power in this game?  I'm still worried he's playing us.

Who do you think should get it?

Too late, Galz derphammered.  Super scummy move, I think, even though Eevee is scum (I think), to steal MA powers like that without further discussion.

[ashersky]

Do we really want Galz to get all the MA power in this game?  I'm still worried he's playing us.

Who do you think should get it?

Too late, Galz derphammered.  Super scummy move, I think, even though Eevee is scum (I think), to steal MA powers like that without further discussion.

Actually, I take that back, I think Galz put Eevee back to L-1.

[Eevee]

gg guys im town.

[Eevee]

gg guys im town.

oh wait, im not.

[Galzria]

Do we really want Galz to get all the MA power in this game?  I'm still worried he's playing us.

Who do you think should get it?

Too late, Galz derphammered.  Super scummy move, I think, even though Eevee is scum (I think), to steal MA powers like that without further discussion.

It wasn't worth letting someone else take them on a real derphammer, when there is no possible way for me to be scum.

[sparky5856]

Wait, yuma unvoted, forgot to take that into account, GAHHHHH

[Galzria]

Try again then: Unvote

[sparky5856]

gg guys im town.

oh wait, im not.

nice to know though. 

PPE: VOTE: Eevee. Okay THERE we go

[Galzria]

Vote: Eevee

[Archetype]

Ok there.

I kind of wanted to get on that for when we go back for voting patterns, but eh. I said why I wasn't

Hopefully Galz inherits that Lightning Rod.

[ashersky]

Do we really want Galz to get all the MA power in this game?  I'm still worried he's playing us.

Who do you think should get it?

Too late, Galz derphammered.  Super scummy move, I think, even though Eevee is scum (I think), to steal MA powers like that without further discussion.

It wasn't worth letting someone else take them on a real derphammer, when there is no possible way for me to be scum.

Will you lightning rod tonight, if that is in fact the thing?

[sparky5856]

When you get a MA power, you have to use it the very day/night the MA dies, right?

[ashersky]

When you get a MA power, you have to use it the very day/night the MA dies, right?

How does the lightning rod work?  And will Galz gain bulletproof too?  This is assuming Eevee told us (some of) the truth in the first place.

[Archetype]

Doctor: Protect Galz.

Galz is practically an IC, so we're screwed if there is no Doctor.

[Archetype]

Doctor: Protect Galz.

Galz is practically an IC, so we're screwed if there is no Doctor.

Especially if he LRs.

[Archetype]

When you get a MA power, you have to use it the very day/night the MA dies, right?

How does the lightning rod work?  And will Galz gain bulletproof too?  This is assuming Eevee told us (some of) the truth in the first place.

I'm guessing he gains all unused powers, but it's just a hunch.

[ashersky]

Doctor: Protect Galz.

Galz is practically an IC, so we're screwed if there is no Doctor.

Is he?  I just have a hard time trusting, I guess.

He's bulletproof now, right, having stolen Eevee's powers?  So he should be a full-on killproof IC for the rest of the game.

[Galzria]

When you get a MA power, you have to use it the very day/night the MA dies, right?

Just double checked Detect Magic, and that was indeed the case. One use, next day only (today).

[ashersky]

Doctor: Protect Galz.

Galz is practically an IC, so we're screwed if there is no Doctor.

Especially if he LRs.

I've never been an LR...so it attracts all the actions for a night, like investigations, kills, protections?  So if he LRs, everything everyone does would hit him instead?  Sounds super awesome for keeping almost everyone alive, but really bad for the user.

[Galzria]

STOP

In Arcana I, and when I killed Insomniac here, only a SINGLE ONE SHOT power was gained. I've no idea what I'll get from Eevee, but it most certainly will NOT be "all his powers" or anything even close.

[Archetype]

Doctor: Protect Galz.

Galz is practically an IC, so we're screwed if there is no Doctor.

Especially if he LRs.

I've never been an LR...so it attracts all the actions for a night, like investigations, kills, protections?  So if he LRs, everything everyone does would hit him instead?  Sounds super awesome for keeping almost everyone alive, but really bad for the user.

It is bad for the user, but not if there is a doctor.

[Grujah]

Did anybody hammer? and who?

I volunteer. But maybe it's better that Galz does it. Though, we are not evcen sure that it is always positive (Death was that there was no deaths following night/day).

[sparky5856]

LR redirects all night acitons to the person who LR's.

I think Eevee's LR allows him to survive any kills due to his bulletproof ability. Whether Galz will inherit that, I don't know.

We also should consider any extraneous effects that could occur, like Death's ability last game.

[sparky5856]

It's possible that Galz won't gain anything, and something else would occur. Death, when he died, prevented all kills that occured the following Day/Night.

[cayvie]

Eevee has been lynched.

He was The Moon, Werewolf... Moon.

Vote Count 2.4
Eevee (6): Grujah, Lekkit, shraeye, Axxle, sparky5856, Galzria

Not Voting (5): Eevee, ashersky, Cuzz, Archetype, yuma


Deadline for Night 2 Night Actions is Thursday, January 3, at 7 PM Forums Time. Send them to both mods (cayvie and Dsell) please.

[cayvie]

just one body

how lame

at least it's in thousands of parts

you can only tell that the bloody mess in the street is yuma by his dental records!
he was the Eight of Wands, Ninja Doctor (town)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!

Day 3 start!!

[Galzria]

Nothing special for hammering Eevee. 

[sparky5856]

Apparently the host loves it when we die. That's cool.

So, what's the Moon's death effect then... is the world gonna end in three days time?

[Archetype]

Do you guys think we should do a mass claim? I vote yes, and I'd be willing to go first.

[Galzria]

Dunno, but that's 1 WW dead and gone. That leaves (probably) 1, maybe 2.

I would like Ashersky and Axxle to claim now.

I have a theory that was running through my head yesterday, but I want them to claim before posting it.

[Galzria]

Do you guys think we should do a mass claim? I vote yes, and I'd be willing to go first.

Not yet. First Ashersky and Axxle, and then we can talk about everybody else.

[Archetype]

Oh ok, I agree those two should claim.

I do feel bad, we almost let a WW live.

On second thought, I strongly suggest we all claim, but I'm fine with Axxle and Asher starting. I think Axxle is more likely scum of the 2, but I don't mind, especially if everyone else claims. If we don't, I'm afraid we would lose you, Galz, tonight and people wouldn't be ok with a mass claim tommorow if there is no IC to lead them.

[shraeye]

Do you guys think we should do a mass claim? I vote yes, and I'd be willing to go first.

Not yet. First Ashersky and Axxle, and then we can talk about everybody else.

Agree.

[ashersky]

I'm the Seven of Wands, Seer.

I investigated Jo N1, Archetype last night.  Neither are WW.

[ashersky]

Also, pretty much VLA for like the next week, I think.  Parents are visiting.  Will do my best to keep focused.

[Archetype]

I'm the Seven of Wands, Seer.

I investigated Jo N1, Archetype last night.  Neither are WW.

Thanks for claiming, and investigating me.

I don't think there is Mafia left. Maybe 1 member? No Mafia kill, so I don't think so. Glad that if ashersky dies, we would have 2 almost ICs (Jo and I).

If he's scum, then that would suck.

Just waiting for Axxle now! I'll have to create a list for order of claiming, and run it by Galz to see if he agrees.

[ashersky]

I'm the Seven of Wands, Seer.

I investigated Jo N1, Archetype last night.  Neither are WW.

Thanks for claiming, and investigating me.

I don't think there is Mafia left. Maybe 1 member? No Mafia kill, so I don't think so. Glad that if ashersky dies, we would have 2 almost ICs (Jo and I).

If he's scum, then that would suck.

Just waiting for Axxle now! I'll have to create a list for order of claiming, and run it by Galz to see if he agrees.

You realize Jo is dead, right?

[Archetype]

I'm the Seven of Wands, Seer.

I investigated Jo N1, Archetype last night.  Neither are WW.

Thanks for claiming, and investigating me.

I don't think there is Mafia left. Maybe 1 member? No Mafia kill, so I don't think so. Glad that if ashersky dies, we would have 2 almost ICs (Jo and I).

If he's scum, then that would suck.

Just waiting for Axxle now! I'll have to create a list for order of claiming, and run it by Galz to see if he agrees.

You realize Jo is dead, right?

I do now.

I checked the OP to make the list, and saw he was dead.

Wooooops. So no, I guess he isn't scum.

[ashersky]

I'm the Seven of Wands, Seer.

I investigated Jo N1, Archetype last night.  Neither are WW.

Thanks for claiming, and investigating me.

I don't think there is Mafia left. Maybe 1 member? No Mafia kill, so I don't think so. Glad that if ashersky dies, we would have 2 almost ICs (Jo and I).

If he's scum, then that would suck.

Just waiting for Axxle now! I'll have to create a list for order of claiming, and run it by Galz to see if he agrees.

You realize Jo is dead, right?

I do now.

I checked the OP to make the list, and saw he was dead.

Wooooops. So no, I guess he isn't scum.

So unless you are scum, we have you and Galz as almost ICs.  I take me out of the equation and we need to look at the subset of {sparky, Lekkit, Shraeye, Grujah, Cuzz, Axxle} for WW, SK, and possible mafia, rights.  Best guess is one WW and one SK, no? 

[Archetype]

I was seriously coming back to say that, but it was too late and you had already responded to it...

But I've completed the list! Mainly just to kill time for Axxle to get here. I'll post it after he claims.

[Archetype]

I'm the Seven of Wands, Seer.

I investigated Jo N1, Archetype last night.  Neither are WW.

Thanks for claiming, and investigating me.

I don't think there is Mafia left. Maybe 1 member? No Mafia kill, so I don't think so. Glad that if ashersky dies, we would have 2 almost ICs (Jo and I).

If he's scum, then that would suck.

Just waiting for Axxle now! I'll have to create a list for order of claiming, and run it by Galz to see if he agrees.

You realize Jo is dead, right?

I do now.

I checked the OP to make the list, and saw he was dead.

Wooooops. So no, I guess he isn't scum.

So unless you are scum, we have you and Galz as almost ICs.  I take me out of the equation and we need to look at the subset of {sparky, Lekkit, Shraeye, Grujah, Cuzz, Axxle} for WW, SK, and possible mafia, rights.  Best guess is one WW and one SK, no? 

I'm the Seven of Wands, Seer.

I investigated Jo N1, Archetype last night.  Neither are WW.

Thanks for claiming, and investigating me.

I don't think there is Mafia left. Maybe 1 member? No Mafia kill, so I don't think so. Glad that if ashersky dies, we would have 2 almost ICs (Jo and I).

If he's scum, then that would suck.

Just waiting for Axxle now! I'll have to create a list for order of claiming, and run it by Galz to see if he agrees.

You realize Jo is dead, right?

I do now.

I checked the OP to make the list, and saw he was dead.

Wooooops. So no, I guess he isn't scum.

So unless you are scum, we have you and Galz as almost ICs.  I take me out of the equation and we need to look at the subset of {sparky, Lekkit, Shraeye, Grujah, Cuzz, Axxle} for WW, SK, and possible mafia, rights.  Best guess is one WW and one SK, no?

I am thinking there is a SK. The whole 'slit throat' doesn't really fit with Eevee's role, and I don't think the real SK would have said 'Hey! I did that! Not him!'

I think they would be nudging at lynching him...

I do not think that there is any Mafia left.

I think there is one or 2 WW left. Probably only one though.

I have a couple people I think they could be, but I'll wait until after everyone has claimed.

It's fun being an IC! Well, I guess I'm not a complete IC. I could be the remaining Mafia, or a SK. But Galz is a full IC, you should probably trust him more than me.

[Archetype]

Weird. I guess I double quoted that.

[Galzria]

Yeah, I wanted to wait to have the SK talk until after Axxle claimed.

But there is likely an Ace of Pentacles, or an Ace of Wands. There are no Mafia or WW with the ability to kill twice, and outside those two cards, my own 1-shot Vig, and the regular Vig, there are no nighttime killing Roles. (Well, maybe JOAT? But I don't think he would have a Knife flavor).

It's possible that Eevee had a secondary kill as the Moon, but I doubt it. His listed powers were probably pretty close to what he actually did (LR + Bullet-Proof). He wouldn't have claimed it trying to buy himself a day if he couldn't at least prove that portion of the power to be correct.

But I don't want to go into who I suspect would be SK until Axxle has claimed.

[Axxle]

Dunno, but that's 1 WW dead and gone. That leaves (probably) 1, maybe 2.

I would like Ashersky and Axxle to claim now.

I have a theory that was running through my head yesterday, but I want them to claim before posting it.

two of wands, vt.

[Archetype]

Okay, I have to go and wont be on for the while, but here's the list:

1 Lekkit
2 sparky5859
3 Cuzz
4 shraeye
5 Grujah

@Galz: I purposefully didn't place myself on the list. I want you to place me wherever you feel it is most appropriate. Feel free to switch these around however, but I would be interested to know why.

[Axxle]

Do you guys think we should do a mass claim? I vote yes, and I'd be willing to go first.

Not yet. First Ashersky and Axxle, and then we can talk about everybody else.

whoops.

[Archetype]

Axxle:

Dunno, but that's 1 WW dead and gone. That leaves (probably) 1, maybe 2.

I would like Ashersky and Axxle to claim now.

I have a theory that was running through my head yesterday, but I want them to claim before posting it.

two of wands, vt.

I'm the Seven of Wands, Seer.

I investigated Jo N1, Archetype last night.  Neither are WW.

Done and done. Both have claimed. They could be lying or telling the truth.

[sparky5856]

Okay, I have to go and wont be on for the while, but here's the list:

1 Lekkit
2 sparky5859
3 Cuzz
4 shraeye
5 Grujah

@Galz: I purposefully didn't place myself on the list. I want you to place me wherever you feel it is most appropriate. Feel free to switch these around however, but I would be interested to know why.

Why don't I have to claim? And who is this sparky5859 fellow?

It should be noted that Axxle is free to claim anything, since there are no other Wands players to counterclaim him, if he's lying. Thus his claim is relatively useless.

[Archetype]

Aw true. But I guess we can just limit him to those Wand cards. But yeah, claiming VT is the best way to get out of trouble.

Now we wait for Lekkit…

[Galzria]

Actually, I would like each person not named Axxle or Ashersky to explain which of Ashersky or Axxle is more likely to be the Ace of Wands, and why.

This should come before anybody else claims.

[Archetype]

Oh, ok. Axxle all the way. He's obvscum. I would want him lynched right now if people werent claiming. I've never been so sure anyone is scum ever before in my entire Mafia career.

[sparky5856]

I've never been so sure anyone is scum ever before in my entire Mafia career.

Funny, I just felt the same way about Eevee.

I would have to go for Axxle over ashersky about who's the Ace of Wands. The fact that ashersky provided investigation info right off the bat gives him some points. I would need to reread both to garner an official opinion, but put me down for Axxle.

[Axxle]

There is definitely a SK in this setup so says the flavor.

It's not necessarily a Wands though, especially because I really don't think Asher is he SK.

[Axxle]

*the

[Axxle]

I think we should really look at people trying to stop the Eevee lynch for WW.

[Archetype]

Soo me and asher.

Not me, asher cleared me.

So asher.

But if he's a WW, then I'm not insta Town. Which would suck.

Meh. I think asherbis Town, I know I'm town and I know Axxle is scum. The SK to be exact.

[sparky5856]

Are you saying you KNOW Axxle is SK, or it's a very-certain gut feeling? Just wanted to clarify.

[Archetype]

Are you saying you KNOW Axxle is SK, or it's a very-certain gut feeling? Just wanted to clarify.

I am not answering this question. Sorry.

[Lekkit]

I'm not usually the one to throw the first vote, but, dude, Archetype. If you know Axxle is SK, why haven't you said so before? This is what I read:

"Hi, guys! /.../ Banter /.../ Oh, btw, Axxle is SK. I know this. I don't want to say how I know this, or even if I know this for a fact, but guys. He is. And I'm not even bothering to vote for him."

Sounds an awful lot like you're trying to get a lynch going.

Vote: Archetype

My guess is that you are scum.

[Lekkit]

@Galz: I think it's more likely that Axxle is SK, but I'm not sold on him. He's been generally lurky, but has gotten here a couple of times. Ashersky has been here a bit more consistently. But I guess you can always hide in plain side.

I guess I'm not sure at all, actually.

[Archetype]

I'm not usually the one to throw the first vote, but, dude, Archetype. If you know Axxle is SK, why haven't you said so before? This is what I read:

"Hi, guys! /.../ Banter /.../ Oh, btw, Axxle is SK. I know this. I don't want to say how I know this, or even if I know this for a fact, but guys. He is. And I'm not even bothering to vote for him."

Sounds an awful lot like you're trying to get a lynch going.

Vote: Archetype

My guess is that you are scum.

Hah. No I'm not scum.

There's a reason I've kept my mouth shut about things. We are:

1st

Choosing 1: ashersky or Axxle to be scum. I chose Axxle, sparky chose Axxle, I'm assuming ashersky will pick Axxle. PPE: Seems you're undecided between the 2.

Then we start the massclaim. I've laid out a list in the order people should claim. I'm technically only a half IC, so to prevent me from misleading you, Galz is free to make any logical changes as well as choose at what point I claim during the massclaim.

If you've seen the list, Lekkit, you can see you're at the top. There is a very specific reason for this.

[Lekkit]

Archetype, technically you're not an IC at all. But even with your math, you're only 1/3 IC. Assuming Ashersky is telling the truth. If he's not, then you're actually 0 IC.

[sparky5856]

FWIW, I prefer not to use the term "IC" unless we're actually talking about an IC. ashersky claimed Archetype is not WW. He still has a long way to reach IC-status. Archetype could still be mafia, the SK, and hey ashersky could be lying/making stuff up, in which case Archetype could actually be a WW. But what do we know.

[Archetype]

True.

I said 1/2 because we were assuming the Mafia was dead. I guess there could be a single member left.

And yeah, maybe I'm using IC a little too loosely. But I guess I'm more likely Town than anyone else (except Galz) or asher and I are pulling an impressive scum trick. I'll go by NWW (Non Werewolf) from now on.

Lekkit: Are you voting me because I'm acting scummy? Or because my refusal to say why I know Axxle is a SK is suspicious?

[sparky5856]

True.

I said 1/2 because we were assuming the Mafia was dead. I guess there could be a single member left.

Hard to tell who's left. The kill flavor for today didn't help with that. I would guess one more mafia and one more WW and a SK, because that's how it was in Arcana I. The faction with the major arcana only had 2 members.

[Archetype]

I thought it was WW themed. The Mafia's usually involve bullrts, and the Serial Killer uses a knife.

[Lekkit]

I'm voting you because I think you are scum.

Here are some goodies.

Sorry I'm late.

Ok so it seems that Insomniac is one of those super crazy powers. That's good if he's town, but if we have no Doctor, this could be bad. But if he indeed did catch scum, maybe a super PR for 1 scum member isn't that bad...? Maybe.

Also, nice way of presenting your investigation, Insom. It's interesting to see their reactions.

Buddying right off the bat.

Uhh ok. So Eevee's the Bulletproof guy. He's now an IC now? Cool, so that narrows it down to Robz and Galzria.

First off, Eevee has never been an IC. And as it turned out, he wasn't even town. Secondly, this is the first time you mention Galz as suspicious. Added for completion.

Galzria is supposedly the Strongman (?) Vigilante, right? Well that really sucks. If he's scum, he's going to be shooting Eevee tonight. But I guess he couldn't for some WIFOM. Hmm.

I think I'm going to Vote: Robz. Galzria seems scarier as scum, but Robz's actions so far have been scummy, brash, and paranoid compared to Galz. And of course, if Robz flips town, we can always go after Galz.

Let's hunt Galz.

I think that if Robz flips Town, and Galz is scum, he's going to shoot whoever he wants.

Regardless of who he shoots, if Robz flips Town, we're lynching him tommorow, right?

This reads to me as some kind of attempt to make sure that there's a lynch candidate for the day after. Also, it just happens to be Galz.

I think I want to lynch Galz today. I don't really want to lynch another MA (especially if he's town) and Galz is a named VT now while having a MA as scum would be powerful.

But there is Grujah's 'proof' that Galz is the Strongman and Eevee has been scrambling.

I honestly don't know. This whole Galz/Eevee/Insomniac/Robz thing makes my brain hurt. Either of them could honestly be scum, especially after confTown Insomniac suspected Galz more than Robz.


I'm going to do Vote: Galzria. I'll be rereading a bunch though to try and figure this mess out. I do think that one of these 2 should be our lynch candidates for today.

And the day after, you go for Galz when Eevee is acting more scummy. EVEN though you said that Eevee was probably more scummy and that Galz was likely to be a VT.

I think its possible both MAs could be Town. Both MAs were scum last game.

I really think Eevee should fullclaim. I dont think I want to let him undber the basis of "I'm a MA so you should let me live!!"

I mean, it would suck if we lose him and he's Town, but it would suck even more if we let him live and he's Scum.

What would a fullclaim do in this case? Probably help scum plan better rather than convince town that he is town.

We could just No Lynch, or lynch someone else today. We see if Eevee Lightning Rods. If he does, that means he is most likely Town and then we lynch Galz. If he doesnt, then we lynch Eevee tommorow.

LET'S LYNCH GALZ!!!

What are we going to do after we lynch Eevee? Lynch Galz?

...

I do now.

I checked the OP to make the list, and saw he was dead.

Wooooops. So no, I guess he isn't scum.

HOW ON EARTH DO CAN YOU MISS SOMETHING THIS HUGE? I don't buy it. I think it's a rouse to make you sound more towny. This could be due to me tunneling you right now, though.

I am thinking there is a SK. The whole 'slit throat' doesn't really fit with Eevee's role, and I don't think the real SK would have said 'Hey! I did that! Not him!'

I think they would be nudging at lynching him...

I do not think that there is any Mafia left.

I think there is one or 2 WW left. Probably only one though.

I have a couple people I think they could be, but I'll wait until after everyone has claimed.

It's fun being an IC! Well, I guess I'm not a complete IC. I could be the remaining Mafia, or a SK. But Galz is a full IC, you should probably trust him more than me.

So basically you think there's a SK but no Mafia based on the lack of Mafia NK? Then tell me, where is the SK NK? I think you're the last Mafia and trying to hide it by making it sound like there's no mafia left when by that logic there should be neither mafia nor SK.

Add to that that you've been trying to cling as hard as you can to your "IC" status and that you've been really pushing for a Galz lynch for the last days. I'm voting you because I think you are Mafia.

[Lekkit]

Thinking about it, I guess you could be WW buddy with asher too.

[Grujah]

I Agree with Lekkit.

Arch, you are not nearly an IC. One unconfirmed players confirms an already known fact and states that you are not WW. Big deal. You could be of other faction, or an Alpha werewolf, or Ash is just lying.
I have other theories which I won't reveal.

But your stance that you are superinnocent now, and even worse, you're unexplained "I KNOW" stance on Axxle (if you really knew, and you were concern'd about seemingly upcoming massclaim, you'd wouldn't go screaming "I KNOW"). That and you hedging about Fuzzers and Galz when it was dead obvious. "Jo is dead?" is a small sip too.

I could lynch you in a heartbeat.

As for Axxle vs ash. Axxle is lurky, but he always is. Ash claim is stronger, but easily made up. Ash was bit on the side, not in the main arguments. Axxle was way more heavy on Evs. I'd say Ash is more likely to be SK.

[Galzria]

Thank you Grujah.

I still want others to weigh in, but I would like Arche to claim at this time.

Lekkit, I do not think Arche is Mafia.

[sparky5856]

I take it Lekkit is not following through with Archetype's plan lol.

Actually, something I noticed is that we've only found one VT so far out of 7 people. I have to think the ratio of VT's to players is better than 1:7. (Counting living players it's somewhat different but I not taking everyone's claims up front yet.) So, my theory is that most of the VT's are still left; massclaiming would weed out the PR's. It would be best to leave them hidden imo, at least for now.

(This coming from the person who was all for massclaiming on D1 >_< )

[Cuzz]

Still catching up, but can someone fill me in on who has claimed what so far? I may have caught scum.

[Axxle]

Thank you Grujah.

I still want others to weigh in, but I would like Arche to claim at this time.

Lekkit, I do not think Arche is Mafia.

Isn't he confirmed Wand? Of course he isn't mafia...

[Axxle]

Thank you Grujah.

I still want others to weigh in, but I would like Arche to claim at this time.

Lekkit, I do not think Arche is Mafia.

Isn't he confirmed Wand? Of course he isn't mafia...

Sorry, got arche and ashe confused.  Also still slightly drunk.

[Cuzz]

Galz, in response to your question, Axxle is more likely to be Ace of Wands.

[sparky5856]

Still catching up, but can someone fill me in on who has claimed what so far? I may have caught scum.

We know Galz is One-Shot Strongman Vig. Ash claimed Seven of Wands, Seer, and to have investigated jo and Archetype, neither being WW. Axxle claimed Two of Wands, VT. Archetype wanted Lekkit to claim next, he responds by voting Archetype. I don't think anyone else has claimed.

Claiming VT is the smart move if Axxle is the Ace of Wands. A VT won't be a very likely NK target, plus it's the simple route.

I will chime in that Archetype is doing a lot to control the town, and I'm getting wary of that. I remember a cop direction at the end of D2 by him. I got yelled at for something similar in... I think it was Waffle Mafia.

Because I believe there are many VT's still left and fewer PR's, I don't think any more claiming would be beneficial right now, especially with potentially 3 night-killers still around.

[Axxle]

Who tried to save eevee? they might be the final WW(s).

[Cuzz]

Who tried to save eevee? they might be the final WW(s).

It looked like Arch did. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, and I hadn't read all of D2 until after seeing Eevee's flip so that clouds my judgment, but I'm suspicious of anyone who didn't treat Eevee as obvscum at that point.

I think a massclaim would be really beneficial at this point, but I have to ponder about it some more. Galz what do you think?

[Galzria]

So, my belief us that Ashersky is the Ace of Wands, and it's quotes like the below that lead me to that conclusion:

That would be Galz right? He's proven that he's the Strongman Vig, so he's named townie at this point.

Well, unless Eevee is lying and is a regular mafia/werewolf card holder, and Galzria is also lying and is actually an MA with strongman abilities.

This idea that Eevee would somehow be lying (even though he was proven BP), and not MA but instead a regular WW/Mafia (and not even SK as CLAIMED) makes absolutely NO sense.....

..... Unless Ashersky was responsible for killing Voltgloss, and thus KNEW (without being able to claim as such) that Eevee couldn't have done so. This leads to all sorts of theories (like the above) trying to justify what Eevee might be, and what that means about me. And if you go back and read, Ashersky was not at all shy on hedging about how Eevee could still be any number of things.

So new assignment is for everybody to go back and reread Ashersky with this thought in mind. The moment Eevee claimed to have killed Voltgloss, SK!Ashersky knew something was amiss.

Tell me your thoughts.

Then consider that if true, his "investigation" results are just completely made up - who's going to counter him? Even if he "clears" a WW, it's not like they're going to counter-claim.

After you've done that, reread Archetype from a WW partner to Eevee perspective, and give me your thoughts on that as well.

--If you have investigative results that pin a player as scum, feel free to release them at this time. Otherwise, NO claiming.-

[Cuzz]

I can pin one player as scum right now.

If we massclaim, I believe there is a good chance that I will be able to pin one or more other players as scum.

If I explain further the plan will not work. Think about whether or not you think it's worth it to try.

[Grujah]

I have a theory that I wanna present either a) after massclaim or b) right now, if there'll be no massclaim.

@Galz - I came to Ash for different reasons (as he wasn't as pushy for Eevee as one should be) - but I think what you say do make sense.

[Galzria]

After everybody weighs in on Ashersky, we will do a massclaim. I hate doing so, as I agree we should have more VT than PR's, but too many people want it to be completely scum driven, so I have to accept there's probably something worth hearing.

There are 9 people left alive.

1. Galzria - Strongman Vig
2. Ashersky - Seer
3. Axxle - VT
--- The following should be claim order, AFTER people have weighed in on Ashersky---
4. Archetype
5. Shraeye
6. Grujah
7. Lekkit
8. Sparky
9. Cuzz

[Galzria]

Also, we started with 16, and we've seen 3 scum, 4 town. We KNOW that there's 2 more scum left. There may be 3 still.

So right now we're looking at either 2/9, or 3/9 scum.

[Archetype]

I've thought about it some more, and I reconsidered some things.

So no, I don't KNOW Axxle is scum anymore. I'm fairly certain though. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of ashersky being scum. 1 of the 2 is most likely scum.

Yeah, I guess I'm not as much as an IC as I thought I was. But that's fine, I don't mind that much.

[ashersky]

So, my belief us that Ashersky is the Ace of Wands, and it's quotes like the below that lead me to that conclusion:

That would be Galz right? He's proven that he's the Strongman Vig, so he's named townie at this point.

Well, unless Eevee is lying and is a regular mafia/werewolf card holder, and Galzria is also lying and is actually an MA with strongman abilities.

This idea that Eevee would somehow be lying (even though he was proven BP), and not MA but instead a regular WW/Mafia (and not even SK as CLAIMED) makes absolutely NO sense.....

..... Unless Ashersky was responsible for killing Voltgloss, and thus KNEW (without being able to claim as such) that Eevee couldn't have done so. This leads to all sorts of theories (like the above) trying to justify what Eevee might be, and what that means about me. And if you go back and read, Ashersky was not at all shy on hedging about how Eevee could still be any number of things.

So new assignment is for everybody to go back and reread Ashersky with this thought in mind. The moment Eevee claimed to have killed Voltgloss, SK!Ashersky knew something was amiss.

Tell me your thoughts.

Then consider that if true, his "investigation" results are just completely made up - who's going to counter him? Even if he "clears" a WW, it's not like they're going to counter-claim.

After you've done that, reread Archetype from a WW partner to Eevee perspective, and give me your thoughts on that as well.

--If you have investigative results that pin a player as scum, feel free to release them at this time. Otherwise, NO claiming.-

If you think my consistent stance of caution and taking time with our MA claims yesterday somehow makes me an SK, then I don't even know how to respond.  Why do people make assumptions that other people will come to a specific conclusion based on assumed information?  Shall I call you Voltgloss?  You know I was always suspicious of you, and that is every game.  You are one of the masters of these fake claim crazy gambits, so I wasn't taking you on as the leader 100% yet.  I don't think we have much choice now, and with a full claim, everyone can chime in.

Further to your argument, think about the other piece of information I had yesterday.  My role.  If we hadn't lynched Eevee, I would have investigated him.  Because if he was lying, I thought the chances he was lying about a lot of things were high, and I could catch him for town.  Instead, we got the lynch and flip, so I investigated the person who seemed most willing to save him, Arch.

As for Axxle as SK, it's definitely possible, but I don't know for sure.  He's definitely the only candidate for Ace of Wands, though.  It's also possible that every other person who hasn't claimed in the other Ace SK.

I think Arch needs to claim, given his statements, and now clear backtrack on Axxle.

[shraeye]

Between ashersky/Axxle who is SK?  I believe this is the question I'm answering.  I would suspect Axxle, who claims the easy VT claim (knows he can't be counterclaimed since all the other Wands have been pointed out).  Ashersky I'm suspicious of being a werewolf.  When I think back to Eevee's crazy claims, ashersky was in there saying things that didn't make sense to me at the time.  It seemed like he was misunderstanding/contradicting Eevee's claims a bit and possibly Eevee didn't claim as they had planned in their QT.

Archetype also moved to slow down the lynch, but only after Eevee claimed SK and Archetype thought town could get some use out of a SK kept on a tight leash, I don't recall him slowing that lynch down at all prior to that.  Townread on Archetype.

[ashersky]

Also, per my ongoing VLA, away from computer at the zoo today.

[shraeye]

I think Arch needs to claim, given his statements, and now clear backtrack on Axxle.

Let Galz lead the claiming.  I'm much much more certain of his alignment than yours.

[ashersky]

I think Arch needs to claim, given his statements, and now clear backtrack on Axxle.

Let Galz lead the claiming.  I'm much much more certain of his alignment than yours.

Wasn't really leading, so much as my opinion.

[ashersky]

I think Arch needs to claim, given his statements, and now clear backtrack on Axxle.

Let Galz lead the claiming.  I'm much much more certain of his alignment than yours.

Plus didn't he tell Arch to full claim already?

[shraeye]

I think Arch needs to claim, given his statements, and now clear backtrack on Axxle.

Let Galz lead the claiming.  I'm much much more certain of his alignment than yours.

Plus didn't he tell Arch to full claim already?

I dont remember.

[Galzria]

So, my belief us that Ashersky is the Ace of Wands, and it's quotes like the below that lead me to that conclusion:

That would be Galz right? He's proven that he's the Strongman Vig, so he's named townie at this point.

Well, unless Eevee is lying and is a regular mafia/werewolf card holder, and Galzria is also lying and is actually an MA with strongman abilities.

This idea that Eevee would somehow be lying (even though he was proven BP), and not MA but instead a regular WW/Mafia (and not even SK as CLAIMED) makes absolutely NO sense.....

..... Unless Ashersky was responsible for killing Voltgloss, and thus KNEW (without being able to claim as such) that Eevee couldn't have done so. This leads to all sorts of theories (like the above) trying to justify what Eevee might be, and what that means about me. And if you go back and read, Ashersky was not at all shy on hedging about how Eevee could still be any number of things.

So new assignment is for everybody to go back and reread Ashersky with this thought in mind. The moment Eevee claimed to have killed Voltgloss, SK!Ashersky knew something was amiss.

Tell me your thoughts.

Then consider that if true, his "investigation" results are just completely made up - who's going to counter him? Even if he "clears" a WW, it's not like they're going to counter-claim.

After you've done that, reread Archetype from a WW partner to Eevee perspective, and give me your thoughts on that as well.

--If you have investigative results that pin a player as scum, feel free to release them at this time. Otherwise, NO claiming.-

[Galzria]

After everybody weighs in on Ashersky, we will do a massclaim. I hate doing so, as I agree we should have more VT than PR's, but too many people want it to be completely scum driven, so I have to accept there's probably something worth hearing.

There are 9 people left alive.

1. Galzria - Strongman Vig
2. Ashersky - Seer
3. Axxle - VT
--- The following should be claim order, AFTER people have weighed in on Ashersky---
4. Archetype
5. Shraeye
6. Grujah
7. Lekkit
8. Sparky
9. Cuzz

[Grujah]

So, my belief us that Ashersky is the Ace of Wands, and it's quotes like the below that lead me to that conclusion:

That would be Galz right? He's proven that he's the Strongman Vig, so he's named townie at this point.

Well, unless Eevee is lying and is a regular mafia/werewolf card holder, and Galzria is also lying and is actually an MA with strongman abilities.

This idea that Eevee would somehow be lying (even though he was proven BP), and not MA but instead a regular WW/Mafia (and not even SK as CLAIMED) makes absolutely NO sense.....

..... Unless Ashersky was responsible for killing Voltgloss, and thus KNEW (without being able to claim as such) that Eevee couldn't have done so. This leads to all sorts of theories (like the above) trying to justify what Eevee might be, and what that means about me. And if you go back and read, Ashersky was not at all shy on hedging about how Eevee could still be any number of things.

So new assignment is for everybody to go back and reread Ashersky with this thought in mind. The moment Eevee claimed to have killed Voltgloss, SK!Ashersky knew something was amiss.

Tell me your thoughts.

Then consider that if true, his "investigation" results are just completely made up - who's going to counter him? Even if he "clears" a WW, it's not like they're going to counter-claim.

After you've done that, reread Archetype from a WW partner to Eevee perspective, and give me your thoughts on that as well.

--If you have investigative results that pin a player as scum, feel free to release them at this time. Otherwise, NO claiming.-

If you think my consistent stance of caution and taking time with our MA claims yesterday somehow makes me an SK, then I don't even know how to respond.  Why do people make assumptions that other people will come to a specific conclusion based on assumed information?  Shall I call you Voltgloss?  You know I was always suspicious of you, and that is every game.  You are one of the masters of these fake claim crazy gambits, so I wasn't taking you on as the leader 100% yet.  I don't think we have much choice now, and with a full claim, everyone can chime in.

Further to your argument, think about the other piece of information I had yesterday.  My role.  If we hadn't lynched Eevee, I would have investigated him.  Because if he was lying, I thought the chances he was lying about a lot of things were high, and I could catch him for town.  Instead, we got the lynch and flip, so I investigated the person who seemed most willing to save him, Arch.

As for Axxle as SK, it's definitely possible, but I don't know for sure.  He's definitely the only candidate for Ace of Wands, though.  It's also possible that every other person who hasn't claimed in the other Ace SK.

I think Arch needs to claim, given his statements, and now clear backtrack on Axxle.

FWIW, i remember similarly cautious Vig ash from MXII. buuut....

Between ashersky/Axxle who is SK?  I believe this is the question I'm answering.  I would suspect Axxle, who claims the easy VT claim (knows he can't be counterclaimed since all the other Wands have been pointed out).  Ashersky I'm suspicious of being a werewolf.  When I think back to Eevee's crazy claims, ashersky was in there saying things that didn't make sense to me at the time.  It seemed like he was misunderstanding/contradicting Eevee's claims a bit and possibly Eevee didn't claim as they had planned in their QT.

Seems possible, as I pointed out, he was not that push for Eevee as most of us were. I know he just gave a reason in post I've quoted, but still - I don't think there was a point in checking Eevee, when a) you wouldn't really know that much, we didn't know if he was SK or WW or what - and you only investigate WW and b) it was so obvious with Galz flavor that Eevees has QT = scum.

I've thought about it some more, and I reconsidered some things.

So no, I don't KNOW Axxle is scum anymore. I'm fairly certain though. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of ashersky being scum. 1 of the 2 is most likely scum.

Yeah, I guess I'm not as much as an IC as I thought I was. But that's fine, I don't mind that much.

So what made you change your mind?

(Other than you being unable to make a fakeclaim that will explain your knowledge.)

[Archetype]

I dont know if I can explain why do you Grujah. Both you and Lekkit seemed convinced I'm scum.

[Grujah]

I dont know if I can explain why do you Grujah. Both you and Lekkit seemed convinced I'm scum.

Didn't answer my question, though. Also broken sentence.

[sparky5856]

So, my belief us that Ashersky is the Ace of Wands, and it's quotes like the below that lead me to that conclusion:

That would be Galz right? He's proven that he's the Strongman Vig, so he's named townie at this point.

Well, unless Eevee is lying and is a regular mafia/werewolf card holder, and Galzria is also lying and is actually an MA with strongman abilities.

This idea that Eevee would somehow be lying (even though he was proven BP), and not MA but instead a regular WW/Mafia (and not even SK as CLAIMED) makes absolutely NO sense.....

..... Unless Ashersky was responsible for killing Voltgloss, and thus KNEW (without being able to claim as such) that Eevee couldn't have done so. This leads to all sorts of theories (like the above) trying to justify what Eevee might be, and what that means about me. And if you go back and read, Ashersky was not at all shy on hedging about how Eevee could still be any number of things.

So new assignment is for everybody to go back and reread Ashersky with this thought in mind. The moment Eevee claimed to have killed Voltgloss, SK!Ashersky knew something was amiss.

Tell me your thoughts.

Then consider that if true, his "investigation" results are just completely made up - who's going to counter him? Even if he "clears" a WW, it's not like they're going to counter-claim.

After you've done that, reread Archetype from a WW partner to Eevee perspective, and give me your thoughts on that as well.

--If you have investigative results that pin a player as scum, feel free to release them at this time. Otherwise, NO claiming.-

I think I need to reread everybody given I haven't been here for like half the game, so this is a good call. In response to ash's quote there, yeah there was no situation where Galz is a lying MA and Eevee was a regular mafia/WW, cause how does that explain the failed daykill by Robz? It took me a while to realize this, but Eevee WAS obvscum at that point, and everyone should have felt it, at least eventually.

Archetype is, well, acting weird with his hedging. The way he responded to my question, it sounded like he had direct evidence that Axxle was SK, now he's saying never mind.

[Archetype]

I dont know if I can explain why do you Grujah. Both you and Lekkit seemed convinced I'm scum.

Didn't answer my question, though. Also broken sentence.

Sorry phone posting. do = to.

[shraeye]

So, my belief us that Ashersky is the Ace of Wands, and it's quotes like the below that lead me to that conclusion:

That would be Galz right? He's proven that he's the Strongman Vig, so he's named townie at this point.

Well, unless Eevee is lying and is a regular mafia/werewolf card holder, and Galzria is also lying and is actually an MA with strongman abilities.

This idea that Eevee would somehow be lying (even though he was proven BP), and not MA but instead a regular WW/Mafia (and not even SK as CLAIMED) makes absolutely NO sense.....

..... Unless Ashersky was responsible for killing Voltgloss, and thus KNEW (without being able to claim as such) that Eevee couldn't have done so. This leads to all sorts of theories (like the above) trying to justify what Eevee might be, and what that means about me. And if you go back and read, Ashersky was not at all shy on hedging about how Eevee could still be any number of things.

So new assignment is for everybody to go back and reread Ashersky with this thought in mind. The moment Eevee claimed to have killed Voltgloss, SK!Ashersky knew something was amiss.

Tell me your thoughts.

Then consider that if true, his "investigation" results are just completely made up - who's going to counter him? Even if he "clears" a WW, it's not like they're going to counter-claim.

After you've done that, reread Archetype from a WW partner to Eevee perspective, and give me your thoughts on that as well.

--If you have investigative results that pin a player as scum, feel free to release them at this time. Otherwise, NO claiming.-

I'm going into travel mode, I will put this reread on my todo list and try to get to it by sunday.

[Lekkit]

I hope to be able to reread Ash today. Will be somewhat vla after lunch (my time) today and should be back on monday.

[Lekkit]

Reread ash, but didn't really get the SK vibe Galz was talking about.

Archetype on the other hand could very well be a WW. If so then asher is definately scum.

[Archetype]

Reread ash, but didn't really get the SK vibe Galz was talking about.

Archetype on the other hand could very well be a WW. If so then asher is definately scum.

I could only be a WW if ashersky is scum.

[Grujah]

Reread ash, but didn't really get the SK vibe Galz was talking about.

Archetype on the other hand could very well be a WW. If so then asher is definately scum.

I could only be a WW if ashersky is scum.

We do not know if Alpha werewolf is investigation immune, though. 

[Archetype]

Reread ash, but didn't really get the SK vibe Galz was talking about.

Archetype on the other hand could very well be a WW. If so then asher is definately scum.

I could only be a WW if ashersky is scum.

We do not know if Alpha werewolf is investigation immune, though. 

Aw, that is true. And there could be some redirection.

[Lekkit]

Arch cant be Alpha. Hes not a wand.

[Axxle]

Is a mass claim happening? I think Galz was leading it right? He's the most obvtown of all of us.

Ash needs to die eventually to verify his information, but might as well force the WW to do it since they can't risk him staying around investigating them.  Ash, don't reveal who you target each night until the day after, otherwise we'll have too much WIFOM.

[Axxle]

I'm going to have to figure out something else too look for other than Eevee protecting through since asher seems like he'll die anyway, and Archetype is verified non-WW for now.  Maybe off wagon would be a good place to look anyway.

[Galzria]

Alright, time to follow up on this. I've put my thoughts RE: Ashersky out there, and I think it'll be important to keep in mind. But let's see where this leads us for now:


1. Galzria - Strongman Vig
2. Ashersky - Seer
3. Axxle - VT
--- The following should be claim order---
4. Archetype
5. Shraeye
6. Grujah
7. Lekkit
8. Sparky
9. Cuzz

I want Role, Card, Results to Date, and reasons why choices were made.

Also, top scum pick at this moment.

[Axxle]

Off wagon: Eevee, ashersky, Cuzz, Archetype, yuma

Crossing Archetype and ashersky for reasons stated previously.

I think Cuzz is a WW by PoE.

I'll look at Volt interactions on Day 1 later to find Mafia, or do we want to lynch Mafia today?

[Galzria]

Off wagon: Eevee, ashersky, Cuzz, Archetype, yuma

Crossing Archetype and ashersky for reasons stated previously.

I think Cuzz is a WW by PoE.

I'll look at Volt interactions on Day 1 later to find Mafia, or do we want to lynch Mafia today?

I have reason to suspect that there are no Mafia left - but each night will bring its own confirmations. This is based on the fact that we know that there's a SK, and we know that there's a WW left - but there was only 1 kill last night. Even with Yuma being a Ninja-Doctor, if all 3 existed, there should've at least been 2.

Granted, the last Mafia (since it's rather inconceivable that there would be 4 total), if he exists, might have chosen not to kill, or might have a Role that if he uses prevents him from NK'ing. However, at this time, I'm leaning towards there are none left. My best guess with the information we have is that there is 1 WW and 1 SK left - but 2 WW's would not surprise me.

[Archetype]

Alright, you want me to claim now, right Galz?

[Galzria]

Yep

[Archetype]

Ok.

I am the Eight of Cups, so a Roleblocker! My alignment is of course Town. I cheered when Mafia Roleblocker was killed, so then I couldn't be counterclaimed. Though I guess I still could, if scum wants to play that gambit.

N1: I targeted Galz. It was really in between him and Eevee. I assumed that Eevee was the Bulletproof Townie, so I didn't want to Roleblock him. So I chose Galz. Somehow, the Roleblock failed (cayvie did say she received my action though), so either Voltgloss Roleblocked me, I got redirected somehow, or some weird MA madness.

N2: I targeted Axxle. I was planning on roleblocking one of the Wands (yuma, ashersky, or Axxle). I didn't want to Roleblock yuma because he seemed pretty towny, didn't think ashersky was scum, he had the same thinking about Eevee as I did, and Axxle I thought was being slightly suspicious. So I roleblocked him.

This is also why he is my top scum read.

No SK last night means one of 2 things.

1. SK hit yuma's Ninja Doctoring.

2. I roleblocked Axxle, and since he is a SK, the kill failed.

Or I guess there is a 3rd option:

3. SK didn't shoot. But I find this unlikely to be honest.

This is why I thought Axxle was obvscum, SK to be exact. But then I thought about it some more and realized 'Well yuma's a Doctor, SK could have hit him'. So Axxle isn't necessarily obvscum anymore, but he still is my top scum read given their still is the likelihood of him being the SK. So that's why, Lekkit and Grujah.

--

I've realized there is nothing really to varify my claims. Galz's shooting still worked, and Axxle is apparently a VT, so the Roleblock wouldn't do anything. Nonetheless, I really am the Roleblocker. Lekkit/Grujah will probably call this a fakeclaim, but it's the truth, whether you believe it or not.

[Cuzz]

N1: I targeted Galz. It was really in between him and Eevee. I assumed that Eevee was the Bulletproof Townie, so I didn't want to Roleblock him. So I chose Galz. Somehow, the Roleblock failed (cayvie did say she received my action though), so either Voltgloss Roleblocked me, I got redirected somehow, or some weird MA madness.

You mean because Galz had a strongman kill?

[Archetype]

N1: I targeted Galz. It was really in between him and Eevee. I assumed that Eevee was the Bulletproof Townie, so I didn't want to Roleblock him. So I chose Galz. Somehow, the Roleblock failed (cayvie did say she received my action though), so either Voltgloss Roleblocked me, I got redirected somehow, or some weird MA madness.

You mean because Galz had a strongman kill?

Woah! Strongman goes through Roleblock?!

I've always thought it was only Doctoring/Bulletproof. Learn something new everyday. I guess that means Galz really was obvtown from the start of D2!

Btw, I forgot to mention this, but at the beginning of day 2, when I was acting all weird about Galz not being obvtown, it was because of the Roleblocking. But if Strongman really does goes through Roleblocking, than that makes much more sense than Voltgloss roleblocking me.

[Cuzz]

N1: I targeted Galz. It was really in between him and Eevee. I assumed that Eevee was the Bulletproof Townie, so I didn't want to Roleblock him. So I chose Galz. Somehow, the Roleblock failed (cayvie did say she received my action though), so either Voltgloss Roleblocked me, I got redirected somehow, or some weird MA madness.

You mean because Galz had a strongman kill?

Woah! Strongman goes through Roleblock?!

I've always thought it was only Doctoring/Bulletproof. Learn something new everyday. I guess that means Galz really was obvtown from the start of D2!

Btw, I forgot to mention this, but at the beginning of day 2, when I was acting all weird about Galz not being obvtown, it was because of the Roleblocking. But if Strongman really does goes through Roleblocking, than that makes much more sense than Voltgloss roleblocking me.

Well cayvie doesn't like to spell the details of roles out totally, but from mafiscum:

"Strongman is a role modifier that signifies that any kills performed by this player cannot be blocked by any means - neither by Bulletproof, nor by Doctor or other protective roles, nor by Roleblocks. It is, however, trumped by roles that prevent the victim from being targeted at all, namely Commuter and Hider."

[Archetype]

N1: I targeted Galz. It was really in between him and Eevee. I assumed that Eevee was the Bulletproof Townie, so I didn't want to Roleblock him. So I chose Galz. Somehow, the Roleblock failed (cayvie did say she received my action though), so either Voltgloss Roleblocked me, I got redirected somehow, or some weird MA madness.

You mean because Galz had a strongman kill?

Woah! Strongman goes through Roleblock?!

I've always thought it was only Doctoring/Bulletproof. Learn something new everyday. I guess that means Galz really was obvtown from the start of D2!

Btw, I forgot to mention this, but at the beginning of day 2, when I was acting all weird about Galz not being obvtown, it was because of the Roleblocking. But if Strongman really does goes through Roleblocking, than that makes much more sense than Voltgloss roleblocking me.

Well cayvie doesn't like to spell the details of roles out totally, but from mafiscum:

"Strongman is a role modifier that signifies that any kills performed by this player cannot be blocked by any means - neither by Bulletproof, nor by Doctor or other protective roles, nor by Roleblocks. It is, however, trumped by roles that prevent the victim from being targeted at all, namely Commuter and Hider."

Aw, thanks! That whole Roleblocking thing makes so much more sense now.

[Cuzz]

If Arch was truly confused about how roleblocking Galz would resolve, his behavior D2 makes a little more sense (ie his reluctance to treat Galz as obvtown and Eevee as obvscum).

[Galzria]

Yes. I couldn't even be redirected. As Cayvie said N1 when I went to shoot Ins: "Strong man is STRONG in this game" - I'm not even positive that a Lightning Rod would pull me away.

[Galzria]

Shraeye is due up next to claim.

[Grujah]

Well, I'll just do it for both of us, as I am next anyway.

Shra and I are Masons.

We did breadcrumb this.
In my first few posts, I've made sure everybody is spellchecked, except few things that are intentionally misspelled.
Those are:
Here are the ones I caught (#ofpost, words)
(#56 slef, helishly)
(#67 Rol)
(#69 Archtype)
(#149 Eeve)
(#151 yuo, Evee)

You can check it if you want, it spells shraeye.

One of big shra's post D1, had this as a first paragraph. It only had 6 misspellings, all in one paragraph, spelling Grujah:

"About Gazlria and Yuma,
Yuma's vote was clearly done out of principle, at least that's how I rread it. I don't like people who have suspected yuma on this stance because it sounded 'forced'. Uin my experience with these stand-on-principle type arguments, they will always sound a bit forced, because someone is jsut trying to make a point that self-voting itself is what is bad, but Yuma isn't really commenting on Galzria's alingmemt despite his vote for Galz. I find it a bit interesting that Galzria is reacting somewhat nonchalantly to what I think is a poor reason to vote for someone. This makes me a bit suspicious, but not heavlily enough for me to have a serious scumread on Galz."


Also, during D1 (maybe even later) whenever we made any lists of player, we put the other one on top.
You can see it in shra's post from which the just mentioned paragraph is taken from, and I had 2 posts - one where I call out lurkers and one where I discuss each person individually D1.

[Grujah]

Both are 4, a cup and a sword.

[Grujah]

@Arch - that makes sense.

[Archetype]

I would have never even noticed those breadcrumbs. I noticed the misspellings, but I thought you were just drunk.

[Galzria]

I would have never even noticed those breadcrumbs. I noticed the misspellings, but I thought you were just drunk.

Ha!

[Grujah]

I have to step up the game every time 

[Archetype]

Looks like Lekkit's next. Really interested in what he has to say.

[shraeye]

Both are 4, a cup and a sword.

Thanks Grujah, I was in transit and couldn't answer.  Right now my biggest scumread is really nonexistant, my holiday efforts have been put towards too many things other than this game.  This game is due for a reread coming this weekend.

[Grujah]

This claim stuff has slowed the game down to a crawl. Yeah, we have 5 moer days, but still.. hurry up and get this done so we can continue with arguing.

[Cuzz]

I hope to be able to reread Ash today. Will be somewhat vla after lunch (my time) today and should be back on monday.

Could be a little while...

[Archetype]

I hope to be able to reread Ash today. Will be somewhat vla after lunch (my time) today and should be back on monday.

Could be a little while...

Ugh, should we just jump down to sparky? It does give Lekkit extra room to lie if he's scum, but there's nothing else we can do. We have to have everyone claim by the end of the day.

[Galzria]

I'm not worried, and no, I don't want to jump. According the the OP, we have 2 week deadlines, and this game day began on the 2nd. That means we have until the 19th (someone correct me if this is wrong). Yes, it may mean stalling if he doesn't check in until Monday, but I'm also not going to let scum slide by with a free and "safe" claim after everybody else has. Lekkit goes next.

[Galzria]

I'm not worried, and no, I don't want to jump. According the the OP, we have 2 week deadlines, and this game day began on the 2nd. That means we have until the 19th (someone correct me if this is wrong). Yes, it may mean stalling if he doesn't check in until Monday, but I'm also not going to let scum slide by with a free and "safe" claim after everybody else has. Lekkit goes next.

2 + 14 = 16, not 19. <--- Iz Bad With Maths.

[Archetype]

I'm not worried, and no, I don't want to jump. According the the OP, we have 2 week deadlines, and this game day began on the 2nd. That means we have until the 19th (someone correct me if this is wrong). Yes, it may mean stalling if he doesn't check in until Monday, but I'm also not going to let scum slide by with a free and "safe" claim after everybody else has. Lekkit goes next.

For some reason, I thought we were almost out of time.

[Grujah]

Thread title doesn't agree:
Deadline 1/10/13

[Galzria]

Cayvie, can we get clarification on the deadline? The opening post says 2 week deadlines, but the thread title says the 10th. What is the official deadline?

[Archetype]

Cayvie, can we get clarification on the deadline? The opening post says 2 week deadlines, but the thread title says the 10th. What is the official deadline?

Theory: Killing Werewolf Moon makes the next day shorter.

[Grujah]

Cayvie, can we get clarification on the deadline? The opening post says 2 week deadlines, but the thread title says the 10th. What is the official deadline?

Theory: Killing Werewolf Moon makes the next day shorter.

Well, flavor-wise it does make sense (no Moon = no moonlight = no evenings, it goes straight to night). Better than my theory

[sparky5856]

Alright I'm here again. Currently reading back, I'll post general thoughts along the way. It's posts like these where I tend to accuse everyone in a disorganized fashion. Are you ready? Here it goes.

Because we don't know what the major arcana are, I do not want to massclaim.  Remember how much that would have overpowered death?  Not sure if the same mechanic will be used here.

Doesn't want to massclaim because he's scum? Volt was the same way. Something to think about.

Can I ask a theory/setup question?

I've never played a game with multiple bad guy factions before.  Looking at the card list, there's some listed "werewolf" which sounds cool, but is otherwise just a second mafia?  Also, if there are multiple factions, are they smaller than usual?

LOL if ash if WW

Just got to shraeye's breadcrumb, he didn't make any misspellings in the rest of the post. If shraeye and Grujah are masons, then they should have had strong reasons to believe that one of Eevee, Galz, and Robz was scum based on Insom's info (not really useful just an observation).

Galz, Robz, Voltgloss, Lekkit, ashersky all voted for me.

Voltgloss I have the hardest time believing that he would think my statement was a slip. Lekkit and ash look most like a wagon jumpers...

keeping this in the back of my mind for now.

WTH?

This is not anywhere near "0% of flipping town"

I am the only one who read that as -  "the other scum team than one in which eevee/galz/robz are"?

This is exactly how I read it too.

vote: Robz888

I think it's an honest mistake though and not worth a vote.

Wow, really trying hard not to be a wagon jumper. (Of course, he jumped on my wagon then soon retreated from that.)

Woah woah woah! Lots happened!

Uhh ok. So Eevee's the Bulletproof guy. He's now an IC now? Cool, so that narrows it down to Robz and Galzria.

There's the scumdayvig and the towndayvig. Robz tries to pass himself off as the towndayvig, but the way he used it seemed like he was in a rush, and would be worried that he wouldn't be able to use his dayvig. Towndayvig wouldn't have had to worry about that. Vigginig is often a negative utility, so it's not too big of a deal if they got lynched without using their dayvig.

Galzria is supposedly the Strongman (?) Vigilante, right? Well that really sucks. If he's scum, he's going to be shooting Eevee tonight. But I guess he couldn't for some WIFOM. Hmm.

I think I'm going to Vote: Robz. Galzria seems scarier as scum, but Robz's actions so far have been scummy, brash, and paranoid compared to Galz. And of course, if Robz flips town, we can always go after Galz.

If Galz then flips scum, then Insomniac has some explaining to do.

I could see this post as WW-ish. If there was an opportunity to treat Eevee as IC, this would have been he time to do so. He then knew that Robz and Galz were innocent. Notice the last sentence. He doesn't say Insom would be scum. Just that he had some explaining to do. Cause Insomniac could have still been town. If he was town (which he was), Eevee was scum and Archetype would not have wanted people thinking that. (This is a whole bunch of conspiracy theory lol)

Town: I suggest we lynch Robz, and I'll still NK Eevee. This cannot be stopped.

I say don't do it. We lynch Robz and see his flip. If he's scum, then I guess Eevee's not a confirmed Townie and then Galzria is in the clear.

If he's Town, Eevee is an IC, and it doesn't matter what we suggest. Scum!Galzria will do whatever he wants, and then we lynch him tommorow. If he really is scum, he'll NK Eevee, eliminating our IC, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Question: (for cayvie ir whoever can help me understand this) is there a scum 1-shot Strongman Vigilante? Or is it just a Town 1-shot Strongman Vigilante?

Interesting...

BTW - Grujah shooting questions and posts in a rapidly fashing, like right now - town Grujah.
Take a note for further games.

Noted. When you're scum in future games, you're going down. 

Just got to my late night drunkish rave of posts. #614 is where I finally start using my brain in the whole game.

#622 Archetype kinda gives up on his "Eevee = IC" idea. Now that it was kinda obvious at that point that Eevee was scum. They might have discussed that in their QT.

Well wait a second, if Eevee is self aligned, then would he have a QT?

Unvote.

HAHHAHAHA. Well, he intended to vote again shortly after. That didn't last long.

On the theory on ash being SK based on his hedging after Eevee's fake fullclaim, the possibility of strong, but it's not a 100% conviction. It is screwy how he hadn't realized by that point that Galz was conf-town. What's more noticeable is Archetype from a WW standpoint. I still think Axxle is a SK possibility.

Archetype claimed Roleblocker. He blocked Galz. It was a nice attempt at trying to prevent Galz from shooting Eevee just in case he did that, if Arche is WW. Reading back, this scenario seems entirely plausible, except... what WW roleblocks in this setup? The Alpha? It's a mystery. He could just be making all of it up, as he himself described. I noticed that Archetype has been giving plenty of hypothetical situations in which he is scum, and I'm finding that to be fishy. Also, if he is scum, he would have HAD to make up that hypothetical situation to see if the claim would be believable in the first place.

So,those are my thoughts after another long absence.

[sparky5856]

Cayvie, can we get clarification on the deadline? The opening post says 2 week deadlines, but the thread title says the 10th. What is the official deadline?

Theory: Killing Werewolf Moon makes the next day shorter.

Seems weird that the DAY would be shorter, this sounds like something that would happen if the holder of The Sun was killed. I guess a deadline clarification would answer things. I mean, the host has made a mistake with the deadline in D2.

[Archetype]

There are no WW Roleblockers, only a Mafia one. That's why I was happy when Voltgloss was killed, preventing people from thinking I was the Mafia Roleblocker instead of the Town one.

[Grujah]

... long post..

Reads as classic sparks scumpost from Major Arcana I.

[Grujah]

Wait, I'll even find which one.

[Grujah]

Basically whole D1, but mostly post 747, here it is:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3907.msg94202#msg94202

[sparky5856]

I always make posts like that when reading back. I've done that as town too (I did it a couple times in Robz's megagame where I was town). And this is the first time I've made a post like that this game (most of my posts have been short this game, they've been like that as of late), and I get pegged for it. There's nothing scummy about reading back.

[Axxle]

Don't care anymore, Galz, who should I lynch.

[Lekkit]

Two of swords. Sorry to take so much time to respond. Tea, saxophone and clarinet with my girlfriend and grandmother coming up. Dont know if Ill be available until tonight.

[Grujah]

Two of swords. Sorry to take so much time to respond. Tea, saxophone and clarinet with my girlfriend and grandmother coming up. Dont know if Ill be available until tonight.

 

[Galzria]

Sparky next, then Cuzz.

[cayvie]

Cayvie, can we get clarification on the deadline? The opening post says 2 week deadlines, but the thread title says the 10th. What is the official deadline?

listed deadline is correct.
it's open to extension on request.

[Cuzz]

SPARKY CLAIM I'VE GOT STUFF TO SAY.

[Galzria]

Cayvie, can we get clarification on the deadline? The opening post says 2 week deadlines, but the thread title says the 10th. What is the official deadline?

listed deadline is correct.
it's open to extension on request.

Thank you kindly.

[sparky5856]

SPARKY CLAIM I'VE GOT STUFF TO SAY.

OKAY.

I've been busy watching football today, that's why I haven't been here. My Ravens did good today, for the most part.

But anyway, Six of Cups, VT. Still not many VT's so far, how many were there in the last MA game? I think it was four iirc, I'll have to crunch this later, more football now lol.

[Cuzz]

So, if I am correct, sparky, Axxle, and Lekkit have claimed VT, Galz has claimed strongman vig, ash Seer, Arch roleblocker, shraeye and Grujah masons, and that's it?

[Grujah]

yup. Your turn.

[Cuzz]

Arite, scum chose unfortunate fakeclaims here. Sorry guys.

I am the Two of Pentacles, Vanilla Town.

In my role PM, I also received modfirmation that there were exactly 2 VTs in this game. Those two VTs are me and dead VT joth. Hence Lekkit, Axxle and sparky are all lying, and thus all scum.


Massclaims can be a fine and useful tool for town. 

[Archetype]

Well cool, this game is solved.

…As long as Cuzz isn't scum himself.

I say Axxle is the best lynch today so we eliminate a NK. Well as long as you guys dont think I'm lying.

[Archetype]

Vote: Axxle

[sparky5856]

Arite, scum chose unfortunate fakeclaims here. Sorry guys.

I am the Two of Pentacles, Vanilla Town.

In my role PM, I also received modfirmation that there were exactly 2 VTs in this game. Those two VTs are me and dead VT joth. Hence Lekkit, Axxle and sparky are all lying, and thus all scum.


Massclaims can be a fine and useful tool for town. 

Uhhhhhh I'm not lying... how did you get this information? You shouldn't have it if you're a VT.

[Cuzz]

Arite, scum chose unfortunate fakeclaims here. Sorry guys.

I am the Two of Pentacles, Vanilla Town.

In my role PM, I also received modfirmation that there were exactly 2 VTs in this game. Those two VTs are me and dead VT joth. Hence Lekkit, Axxle and sparky are all lying, and thus all scum.


Massclaims can be a fine and useful tool for town. 

Uhhhhhh I'm not lying... how did you get this information? You shouldn't have it if you're a VT.

I am, and I do, scum.

[sparky5856]

I'm inclined to think this is scum pulling a gambit, because, well, I'm a freakin' VT. but why now? We were probably gonna lynch Axxle anyways. :/

[sparky5856]

I want to know specifically how you got this information. Don't say that it was included in your PM, because it would be bastard of the mod to give the information if you're a specific VT.

[Cuzz]

I want to know specifically how you got this information. Don't say that it was included in your PM, because it would be bastard of the mod to give the information if you're a specific VT.

It was included in my PM. And why is that bastard of the mod? I would assume cayvie also gave joth (again, the ONLY other actual VT in the game) some little nugget of info too.

[shraeye]

I'm inclined to think this is scum pulling a gambit, because, well, I'm a freakin' VT. but why now? We were probably gonna lynch Axxle anyways. :/

If Cuzz is pulling a crazy gambit, then we will find out as soon as we lynch one of you.  I say we follow Cuzz until he's wrong.

[sparky5856]

I want to know specifically how you got this information. Don't say that it was included in your PM, because it would be bastard of the mod to give the information if you're a specific VT.

It was included in my PM. And why is that bastard of the mod? I would assume cayvie also gave joth (again, the ONLY other actual VT in the game) some little nugget of info too.

In the last game, VT's has no extra info whatsoever. Now, they apparently do? Wouldn't that make the game unbalanced, for ALL of the town players to have at least some power?

I'm inclined to think this is scum pulling a gambit, because, well, I'm a freakin' VT. but why now? We were probably gonna lynch Axxle anyways. :/

If Cuzz is pulling a crazy gambit, then we will find out as soon as we lynch one of you.  I say we follow Cuzz until he's wrong.

Yeah but I thought Axxle was scum anyway. We can't just take his word if we lynch just one of us. In fact I'm never taking his word.

[sparky5856]

I was drawing a mostly-null read on Lekkit fwiw, he could go either way.

[Cuzz]

I was drawing a mostly-null read on Lekkit fwiw, he could go either way.

Naw, he's scum too.

[sparky5856]

Consider: as soon as we lynch me or one of Axxle/Lekkit if they do end up flipping VT, Cuzz is as good as dead. So why then? I don't think that was a particularly smart move.

[Cuzz]

I want to know specifically how you got this information. Don't say that it was included in your PM, because it would be bastard of the mod to give the information if you're a specific VT.

It was included in my PM. And why is that bastard of the mod? I would assume cayvie also gave joth (again, the ONLY other actual VT in the game) some little nugget of info too.

In the last game, VT's has no extra info whatsoever. Now, they apparently do? Wouldn't that make the game unbalanced, for ALL of the town players to have at least some power?

Is this directed at me? Am I supposed to say "oh, you're right, that would make the game unbalanced. Forget I said anything."?

Town had three scum teams to deal with, one scum MA, plus two vigs who can often be negative utility. A priori the game was probably reasonably balanced.

Anyway, from your perspective, I'm definitively lying scum so I can't understand why you're not voting for me.

[sparky5856]

It was worse last game. We had three scum teams, TWO scum MA plus EVERY possible vig. The setup in this game ended up being more favorable for town, WITHOUT the extra info that the VT's got, as you claim.

And in fact, voting for you sounds like an excellent idea. THAT I agree with. VOTE: Cuzz.

[sparky5856]

And if you should know, I was waiting for everyone else to provide their input, as I always like to do.

[Archetype]

Actually, better idea:

We lynch one of sparky or Lekkit today (I'm leaning sparky) and their flip. If they're scum, we lynch the other.

Meanwhile, I'll Roleblock Axxle until I get NKed. Or I guess I could Roleblock Lekkit. It shouldnt matter if sparky is scum.

[shraeye]

Consider: as soon as we lynch me or one of Axxle/Lekkit if they do end up flipping VT, Cuzz is as good as dead. So why then? I don't think that was a particularly smart move.

This is exactly the reason why it ISNT a gambit.  Dumbest gambit I've ever heard of.

[shraeye]

Actually, better idea:

We lynch one of sparky or Lekkit today (I'm leaning sparky) and their flip. If they're scum, we lynch the other.

Meanwhile, I'll Roleblock Axxle until I get NKed. Or I guess I could Roleblock Lekkit. It shouldnt matter if sparky is scum.

Yup, I think sparky is a good lynch.

[Archetype]

The more I read sparky's 'defense' the more I think Cuzz's claim is true.

Seems I've got a mason to back me up, but I want to see Lekkit's and Axxle's responses (namely Lekkit, Axxle is confSK to me and dont care too much about what he says).

[sparky5856]

What do you want me to say? He's lying, but how can I prove it? You don't know what I am, so you could disbelieve me instead, even though I know he's lying.

[Grujah]

Jo also had extra info:

He said that he knew something about the number of the swords.

So, I am willing to accept that VTs, in fact, do have extra info.

[Grujah]

Here's the post:

Wow a lot happened while I was asleep.

I have a piece of setup info that would allow us to clear Robz with a very limited massclaim.

Basically, everyone would need to claim sword or not sword. I am aware of Volt's power in MA1. I have some reason to believe its unlikely we're in a parallel situation.

[Grujah]

Btw my theory was that cuz the Moon died, only werewolf powers worked during the night.

[Grujah]

vote: sparky

[Grujah]

Though, if true, this is kinda cruel towards scum. I mean, fakeclaiming is even harder for them. 

[shraeye]

vote: sparky

[Grujah]

oh, and I'll be less active, skiing trip next 5 days.

[Archetype]

Vote: sparky

[Grujah]

Wait, if we trust Arch (and we ought to if we trust Cuzz), than Axxle is SK or last mafia, so we should lynch him first to reduce night deaths, maybe?

[shraeye]

But Archetype can roleblock the SK kill I think.

[Archetype]

I'm Roleblocking him tonight. Or Lekkit if sparky is scum. I wont specify which until tommorow (if I'm alive) to keep scum guessing.

[Archetype]

Ninja'd

[shraeye]

I'm Roleblocking him tonight. Or Lekkit if sparky is scum. I wont specify which until tommorow (if I'm alive) to keep scum guessing.

I'm not sure I see the point in keeping scum guessing who gets roleblocked.  Maybe I'm not considering all possible scum roles.

[Archetype]

I'm Roleblocking him tonight. Or Lekkit if sparky is scum. I wont specify which until tommorow (if I'm alive) to keep scum guessing.

I'm not sure I see the point in keeping scum guessing who gets roleblocked.  Maybe I'm not considering all possible scum roles.

Just in case of some funkyness. It shouldnt matter either way.

[Axxle]

Well I don't see any reason to hide this anymore, Cuzz's weird claim and Archetype's stubbornness might get much too many town unnecessarily killed.

I'm the Ten of Wands, Doctor
I protected Insomniac night 1, protected Galzria Night 2, and plan on protecting Ashersky tonight.

I thought my fakeclaim might have given us an easier time, but clearly not.

[ashersky]

Man, just caught up, and saw Axxle's claim.  Clearly don't want to lynch him first, whether he's lying or not. 

I'm okay with voting sparky, but what's the vote count?  I don't want to derphammer. 

Who should I investigate tonight?  One of Cuzz/Lekkit/Axxle, I imagine?

[Galzria]

Can I get a refresh on the CARDS claimed by Cuzz and Sparky?

[Galzria]

Can I get a refresh on the CARDS claimed by Cuzz Lekkit and Sparky?

Fixed.

[Lekkit]

Me two of swords. Sparky six of cups.

I actually believe Cuzz has the right info. I did lie during my claim. I am the oftenmost not very usefull FBI-agent. I hoped scum would claim that role if it was "available". Im actually the nine of swords. I targeted yuma night 1 and Archetype night 2. However istead of Sk/not sk I got no result.

[Lekkit]

And, with that: Vote: Sparky

[Axxle]

that's L-1

[Lekkit]

Hmm... Unvote

[ashersky]

No thoughts on who to investigate?  I could clear Axxle, I guess, and then follow the seer until we find the last WW, (assuming it isn't sparky)?

But it seems everyone was lying?  And Lekkit claims he was roleblocked?

[ashersky]

So Axxle's reason for lying seems better than Lekkit's...hiding the doc makes some sense.  Sparky has had more time to plan his excuse, I guess...

I may or may not be around in the next 12-18 hours...should I vote and put Sparky at L-1?

[Lekkit]

Sparky was the primary reason as to why I claimed VT. Not saying much day 1 and then stepping it up after most of a faction has been eliminated night 1 seems a bit suspicious to me. And now this makes sparky my top scumread.

[Axxle]

WW will try to kill seer, SK will try to kill FBI. Which is more dangerous?

[Axxle]

Or they might try to kill me or conf town.  This is hard.

[ashersky]

WW will try to kill seer, SK will try to kill FBI. Which is more dangerous?

Clearly I want to live.  And Lekkit could be lying about his role, given he lied already.  That applies to you, of course.

If sparky flips anything but VT, I think we have to trust Cuzz's info.  If sparky is SK, clearly protect me.  If sparky flips WW, protect Lekkit.  If sparky flips mafia...Lekkit is probably going to investigate you.  I can investigate anyone town prefers.  You should probably not say who you will protect in that case between me and Lekkit for wifom purposes.

[ashersky]

Also, I will keep checking in tonight as long as I can, and will wait to vote sparky until I know I won't be able to check again.

[ashersky]

Alright, close to turning in here, so I will place my vote: sparky now.  No ones weighed in on investigations lately, but I will check the thread in the AM.

As for Roleblocker, I don't know if Axxle is lying, but I know Arch felt sure he was the SK and may roleblock him.  That would be good to be clarified.

[ashersky]

Oh, one last thought/question: how sure are we about the mason claims?  Unconfirmable, obviously, but believable, I think...just looking to hear how sure others are.  I think I am comfortable with it.

[Lekkit]

Roleblocks, doctorings and investigations should probably not be announced beforehand. It's better not to present the wine to scum to play with.

[Lekkit]

And actually, I think I want to verify Cuzz' claim. I'm fine with being a possible lynch tomorrow as I feel like town is doing pretty good right now.

Vote: Sparky

[Cuzz]

Yeah, I thought this might happen since it's the only reasonable defense. I even thought about giving people one last chance to tell me if they lied during their claim before I came out with my info. But I didn't because......

1. The massclaim was taking a long time anyway

2. They might have caught on to what I was going to say and changed their claim then causing more confusion and

3. It's a MASSCLAIM. The point of a massclaim is to catch scum by helping town solve the setup (ideally). There is possibly reason for town to fakeclaim at L-1 with a PR as Robz tried and failed in XIV, but NO reason for town to lie during a massclaim. That's terribly anti-town. 

The idea that two of the people I just fingered as scum happen to have violated point 3 above is too convenient. They're both scum. But they really have no choice I guess.

[Cuzz]

I wanna hear more from Galz here before we lynch someone.

[Galzria]

Back.

So correct me if wrong, but the last WW must be between Axxle, Lekkit and Ashersky - and if Cuzz is to be believed between Axxle and Lekkit?

And the both admit now to lying?

Someone explain to me why we just lynched Sparky? I obviously need to read back.

[Cuzz]

Oh shit we did just lynch someone didn't we.

[Cuzz]

I guess it's ok because we lynched scum, but I would have liked a little more discussion of which of the three is the best lynch today so as to be sure to remove a nightkill.

[Galzria]

I don't know what Sparky is, but Axxle is the SK. If Ashersky is telling the truth about being a Seer anyway. Someone block him.

That makes Lekkit the WW.

We'll find out I suppose about Sparky.

[Galzria]

If Sparky flips SK, block Lekkit.

[Axxle]

I announced L-1 like two pages ago.  Asher and Lekkit's votes were pretty scummy in light of that.

[Axxle]

I announced L-1 like two pages ago.  Asher and Lekkit's votes were pretty scummy in light of that.

Maybe one page for you guys since I use 10-post pages.

[Axxle]

Oh, one last thought/question: how sure are we about the mason claims?  Unconfirmable, obviously, but believable, I think...just looking to hear how sure others are.  I think I am comfortable with it.

I fully believe it.  They are very likely to be flipped tomorrow since we have 2 or 3 scum factions left, and if either flips scum the other is superdead.

[ashersky]

I don't know what Sparky is, but Axxle is the SK. If Ashersky is telling the truth about being a Seer anyway. Someone block him.

That makes Lekkit the WW.

We'll find out I suppose about Sparky.

If Sparky flips SK, block Lekkit.

Agree with these two statements.

[ashersky]

I announced L-1 like two pages ago.  Asher and Lekkit's votes were pretty scummy in light of that.

You announced it, someone unvoted.  I voted hours later to return to L-1 since i was going to be away.  Lekkit hammered.

Back.

So correct me if wrong, but the last WW must be between Axxle, Lekkit and Ashersky - and if Cuzz is to be believed between Axxle and Lekkit?

And the both admit now to lying?

Someone explain to me why we just lynched Sparky? I obviously need to read back.

I think sparky was the town consensus lynch, and his deciding not to change to a new fake claim made his flip the easiest to confirm Cuzz's claim.  If he still flips VT, we know Cuzz was lying.  The other two changing claims took that option away.

[shraeye]

I still am very sure that cuzz is telling the truth.

Also that Lekkit's new information came out in the more suspicious way between his reveal and Axxle's reveal.

[ashersky]

I still am very sure that cuzz is telling the truth.

Also that Lekkit's new information came out in the more suspicious way between his reveal and Axxle's reveal.

I think we've basically won, as I think we have two masons + Galz conftown, Cuzz very likely telling the truth, and I know I am telling the truth.  So POE gets us to the win.  Sparky, Axxle, and Lekkit.

[Axxle]

I announced L-1 like two pages ago.  Asher and Lekkit's votes were pretty scummy in light of that.

You announced it, someone unvoted.  I voted hours later to return to L-1 since i was going to be away.  Lekkit hammered.

You should have reannounced it.

[Lekkit]

Is there anyone who disagrees with a spark lynch?

[Lekkit]

Because I didnt really hear any complaints. And between Axxle and sparky, I think he was the scummiest. And I have no reason not to believe cuzz.

[sparky5856]

I’m sorry, but I have to openly protest this game. There was no way to anticipate that the vanilla townies had extra information regarding the game setup. In the first MA game, the VT’s had no such info, so as scum we thought it was naturally safe to assume the same for this game. But that was not the case; it’s as if each of the vanilla townies had a one-shot use of a Major Arcana’s power to find out some information about the game setup as Insomniac did. This makes the game incredibly unbalanced towards the town, as scum are forced to claim not knowing what the VT’s know. We killed Jo Night 1 because of his claim that he had extra information about the number of swords in the setup, so we thought he was a MA, or lying scum. Since he flipped VT, I naturally assumed he was just pulling a gambit. But now it feels like town got 3 Major Arcanas on their side, and that’s just too powerful. This game wasn’t a normal fun game of mafia, it was just “everyone massclaim immediately, it’s very easy to determine who’s lying”. This game was said to not be bastard, and it was. Scum was doomed from the start. Lekkit is the last WW, Axxle is the WW-immune SK, I am the last mafia. (For the record, I killed yuma.) There, game solved, game over.  GG town, even though you didn’t earn it.

I think in future games I would suggest not to disclose ANY setup-information, because then massclaims are discouraged, and it feels more like traditional-mafia. A game that could be solvable from a D1 massclaim doesn’t feel fun at all. I suspect I’m not gonna be listened to, so I think I’m going to resign from mafia, it just isn’t fun anymore, it’s too broken. So, good bye everyone, not that you all would care anyway.

[Insomniac]

I feel that with cayvie and dsell away and with everything thats currently happening I have to step in here and say.

THREAD LOCKED

[Grujah]

I’m sorry, but I have to openly protest this game. There was no way to anticipate that the vanilla townies had extra information regarding the game setup. In the first MA game, the VT’s had no such info, so as scum we thought it was naturally safe to assume the same for this game. But that was not the case; it’s as if each of the vanilla townies had a one-shot use of a Major Arcana’s power to find out some information about the game setup as Insomniac did. This makes the game incredibly unbalanced towards the town, as scum are forced to claim not knowing what the VT’s know. We killed Jo Night 1 because of his claim that he had extra information about the number of swords in the setup, so we thought he was a MA, or lying scum. Since he flipped VT, I naturally assumed he was just pulling a gambit. But now it feels like town got 3 Major Arcanas on their side, and that’s just too powerful. This game wasn’t a normal fun game of mafia, it was just “everyone massclaim immediately, it’s very easy to determine who’s lying”. This game was said to not be bastard, and it was. Scum was doomed from the start. Lekkit is the last WW, Axxle is the WW-immune SK, I am the last mafia. (For the record, I killed yuma.) There, game solved, game over.  GG town, even though you didn’t earn it.

I think in future games I would suggest not to disclose ANY setup-information, because then massclaims are discouraged, and it feels more like traditional-mafia. A game that could be solvable from a D1 massclaim doesn’t feel fun at all. I suspect I’m not gonna be listened to, so I think I’m going to resign from mafia, it just isn’t fun anymore, it’s too broken. So, good bye everyone, not that you all would care anyway.

FWIW, I would have pushed you nontheless. 

[Grujah]

Whoops, sorry, Ins. 

[Dsell]

I am here and catching up.

[Dsell]

Sparky5856 has been lynched.

He was the King of Cups, Mafia Watcher.

Vote Count

Sparky (5):  Grujah, Shraeye, Archetype, Ashersky, Lekkit
Cuzz (1): Sparky

Not Voting: Axxle, Cuzz, Galzria

Deadline for night 3 actions is Wednesday, January 9, at 3 PM forum time. Send night actions to both mods (Cayvie and Dsell).


I cannot and will not comment on Sparky's final post in-game. I will not confirm or deny anything whatsoever about the setup. Cayvie may choose to comment later on. I will, however, be reaching out to Sparky personally.

[Dsell]

Oh look, a dead body! You'd think people would be more surprised.

It's Galzria. Upon inspection, you discover that he was the Five of Pentacles, One-Shot Strongman Vig (Town).

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 4 Start!

[ashersky]

I have a result.  I'd like Archetype to confirm who he roleblocked, Axxle to confirm who he doctored, and Lekkit to confirm who he investigated.

[Axxle]

I docced you.

[Archetype]

Roleblocked Axxle.

[Cuzz]

Does anyone have a reason to prefer Axxle or Lekkit? I honesly don't care.

[Archetype]

Eh, I'm leaning Lekkit. He could have some WW powers from Eevee after his lynch. Axxle's powers should be limited if he's a SK. I could just block him again tonight.

I'd vote now but I want to hear ashersky's info.

[shraeye]

I think Archetype's idea makes sense.

[ashersky]

That's enough info for me.  Here's my info, thinking, and plan for the day.

First, I investigated Lekkit.  He is a WW.  I believe he will claim to have investigated Axxle and to have received SK result as FBI Agent.  That will be a lie (well, the investigation part).

I believe today we should vote: Axxle and Arch should roleblock Lekkit.

Here's why.  The unknown for me is whether there is another WW out there.  Only way that's possible is if the following is true:

1.  Axxle is telling the truth.
2.  One of Cuzz or Archetype is lying.

I think both of those things are false, and that Axxle is most likely the SK.  Why do I think that?  Because he's confirmed Wands, that would make him WW-immune.  I think Lekkit (and his partner, if one exists) thought that, which is why he chose to kill someone else.  The big question in my mind is why am I still alive?  Wifom is the easy answer, to try and frame me (which I am sure Lekkit will attempt).

But, if Axxle is telling the truth, the SK killed Galz and the WW was blocked by the doctor.

So, I think we should lynch Axxle today.  If he flips SK, good for us.  I expect this to happen.  If he flips doc, that helps us shift to Cuzz or Arch as the Ace of Pentacles instead.  At the same time, while Arch is roleblocking Lekkit, if Axxle is SK and Lekkit is the last remaining WW, we won't have an NK.  If we do have an NK in that situation, we are again looking at one of Arch or Cuzz lying.

All that said, I think everyone but Lekkit and Axxle are telling the truth.  We will lynch the SK today, then Lekkit tomorrow for the win.  I think by locking down the 100% known remaining scum and taking out any remaining doubt today, we put ourselves in the best position to win tomorrow.

[ashersky]

Also, I will investigate one of the two "possible" liars tonight.  I am treating the masons as absolutely town at this point.

I expect no WW result tonight, but I might as well investigate.  This allows us to have info tomorrow if Axxle somehow flips doc.

[Lekkit]

I honestly don't see how we should get an Axxle lynch going today, and there's no way my partner would survive to be the sole guy standing.

So I'll begin by doing this.

Beat up: Archetype

This is a list of all living players (excluding Arche, sorry):
ashersky
Axxle
Cuzz
Grujah
Lekkit
Shraeye

This is a list of all living players tomorrow if you lynch me:
ashersky
Axxle
Cuzz

Because Axxle will kill Grujah and my partner will kill Shraeye. Axxle is the Ace of Wands, so ashersky cant' kill him during the night. See where this leaves you guys? A loss. To either SK or WW, your choice.

This is a list of all living players tomorrow if you lynch Axxle:
ashersky
Grujah
Lekkit
Shraeye

At this point you can't win. There will be no majority during the voting and me and ashersky will win thanks to our night kills.

Sorry, ash for not sticking to the plan, but I figured this would make it much more easy for us to win, After all, it's a 50/50 chance with town deciding. I don't think you could've convinced Grujah or Shraeye to kill Cuzz. He's basically confirmed town, and even if you got a "WW" result out of him you'd be dead.

And Arche would probably roleblock you after an Axxle lynch, because then it's down to you or Cuzz.

[Dsell]

THREAD LOCKED

[Dsell]

Archetype has been pummeled to death.

Archetype was the Eight of Cups, Town Roleblocker.

THREAD UNLOCKED

[Dsell]

With 6 alive, it still takes 4 to lynch.

[Lekkit]

And here's the full cast.

1. Eevee, The Moon, Werewolf Moon, lynched day 2
2. yuma, Eight of Wands, Ninja Doctor, pulped night 2
3. Archetype, Eight of Cups, Roleblocker, pummeled
4. sparky5856, King of Cups, Mafia Watcher, lynched day 3
5. Robz888, Five of Wands, One-Shot Dayvig, lynched day 1
6. Lekkit, King of Swords, Werewolf one-shot dayvig
7. shraeye, Four of Cups/Swords
8. Ashersky, Queen of Wands, Werewolf Rolecop
9. Grujah, Four of Cups/Awords
10. Voltgloss, Queen of Pentacles, Mafia Roleblocker, throat slit night 1
11. Insomniac, The Magician, Town Wizard Extraordinaire, strangled night 1
12. Cuzz, Two of Pentacles, Vanilla Town
13. jotheonah, Three of Cups, Vanilla Townie, machine gunned night 1
14. jimmmmm, Knight of Cups, Vanilla Mafia ripped to shreds night 1
15. Galzria, Five of Pentacles, One-Shot Strongman Vig (Town), mauled (added my own flavour) night 3
16. Axxle, Ace of Wands, Werewolf Immune Serial Killer

[Lekkit]

Also, I beat Archetype to death with my fists. That's what my PM said I'd do.

Sorry Archetype, being dayvigged must truly suck. At least I got to use what I think is the coolest power in the game.

[Lekkit]

Vote: Axxle, obviously!

[Lekkit]

And the reason as to why there were no deaths night 2 has to be (I don't really know, but I've got some more info than most of you guys here) because Eevee was lynched. His LR probably self activated if he hadn't allready used it. It didn't affect WW powers, and that's why asher got a no result from Axxle, which confirms him as SK, especially considering Arche blocked him last night.

[Dsell]

Vote Count

Axxle (2): Ashersky, Lekkit

Not Voting: Axxle, Cuzz, Shraeye, Grujah

[Lekkit]

Also, this is probably one of the funnest games I've played.

[shraeye]

If it's choosing between losing to SK or losing to WW, I would rather lose to the SK.

Vote: Lekkit

[Lekkit]

Why? Just curious.

[shraeye]

Why? Just curious.

On principle.  I lose, but the fewest number of people who are not me win.

[Lekkit]

Hahah, ok.

[shraeye]

Plus, maybe there's a chance that Axxle is telling the truth.

But there is a 100% chance that you are scum, since you admitted it.

[Cuzz]

Vote: Lekkit

[shraeye]

Grujah will also vote with me, and I'm sure Axxle won't vote for himself.

Lekkit is the lynch.

[Lekkit]

There's a 100% chance of me being scum. I've even mod proven it. Tomorrow, you'll see that I told the truth.

[Lekkit]

Axxle, and asher, you know who to kill. If you do like I told you, you can argue who should win tomorrow. If you stray from the plan, you might give town a win istead.

[Cuzz]

7 out of 16 scum eh?

[Dsell]

Vote Count

Axxle (2): Ashersky, Lekkit
Lekkit (2): Shraeye, Cuzz

Not Voting: Axxle, Grujah

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[Lekkit]

Yeah. And we couldn't fake claim properly.

If I had claimed FBI from the start I think we should've had it. But I wuzzed out.

[shraeye]

Axxle, and asher, you know who to kill. If you do like I told you, you can argue who should win tomorrow. If you stray from the plan, you might give town a win istead.

It'll still be the SK winning, if your plan is right.

[Lekkit]

If you don't change your vote tomorrow, yeah.

[shraeye]

If I had claimed FBI from the start I think we should've had it.

[Axxle]

Lekkit's the clear lynch, but don't want to vote yet since I'm trying to figure out Lekkit's claim since only a few of us will be alive tomrrow.

[Lekkit]

You're halfawy there to a win as a SK. How does it feel?

[shraeye]

Lekkit's the clear lynch, but don't want to vote yet since I'm trying to figure out Lekkit's claim since only a few of us will be alive tomrrow.

I am thinking as well, but am unwilling to reveal what I'm thinking of.

[Lekkit]

I bet whether it is if I have a partner or not and if it is asher or Cuzz.

[Axxle]

6. Lekkit, King of Swords, Werewolf one-shot dayvig
7. shraeye, Four of Cups/Swords
8. Ashersky, Queen of Wands, Werewolf Rolecop
9. Grujah, Four of Cups/Awords
12. Cuzz, Two of Pentacles, Vanilla Town
16. Axxle, Ace of Wands, Werewolf Immune Serial Killer

alive.

[Axxle]

WW: Lekkit

Town: shraeye and Grujah

Unknown: ash, cuzz, axxle

[Lekkit]

Rawr!

[Lekkit]

On a side note. I really like werewolves, so when I rolled one I was happy. Although, I didn't think it would go this "well". But then, I never win games.

[Axxle]

Does no lynch make sense? I think that's the only way we can win, and even then we have to get lucky.

[Axxle]

You're halfawy there to a win as a SK. How does it feel?

Good.

... No wait!

[Lekkit]

Tomorrow if we no lynch:

6. Lekkit, King of Swords, Werewolf one-shot dayvig
7. shraeye, Four of Cups/Swords
8. Ashersky, Queen of Wands, Werewolf Rolecop
9. Grujah, Four of Cups/Awords
12. Cuzz, Two of Pentacles, Vanilla Town
16. Axxle, Ace of Wands, Werewolf Immune Serial Killer

So, yeah, I'd be up for a no lynch too.

[Lekkit]

And shreaeye was supposed to be struck.

[Axxle]

I really don't need your opinion on this... no offense, wolf.

[Axxle]

Alternatively every offense.

[ashersky]

Well, that was a lot.  As mentioned, Lekkit tries to frame me.  I didn't see this coming, though.

I think my plan still works best, given we know 100% that Lekkit is WW but not who the SK is.

[Lekkit]

Yiff, yiff!

[Cuzz]

Well, that was a lot.  As mentioned, Lekkit tries to frame me.  I didn't see this coming, though.

I think my plan still works best, given we know 100% that Lekkit is WW but not who the SK is.

Wasn't your plan the one where Archetype roleblocks Lekkit?

[Lekkit]

And Archetype is DEAD!

[Cuzz]

And Archetype is DEAD!

Right

[ashersky]

Well, that was a lot.  As mentioned, Lekkit tries to frame me.  I didn't see this coming, though.

I think my plan still works best, given we know 100% that Lekkit is WW but not who the SK is.

Wasn't your plan the one where Archetype roleblocks Lekkit?

Yes.  Crap.

On  a side note: suicide is a weird way to frame someone.

vote: lekkit

[Dsell]

Vote Count

Axxle (1): Lekkit
Lekkit (3): Shraeye, Cuzz, Ashersky

Not Voting: Axxle, Grujah

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[Lekkit]

Axxle and asher, you know what to do.

Vote: Lekkit, as I don't really see a reason to prolong this.

[Lekkit]

GG, scum!

[Dsell]

THREAD LOCKED

[Dsell]

Lekkit has been lynched.

He was the King of Swords, Werewolf One-Shot Dayvig.

Vote Count

Lekkit (3): Shraeye, Cuzz, Ashersky, Lekkit

Not Voting: Axxle, Grujah

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline for Night actions is Sunday, Jan 13, at 8 pm forum time. Thread may open sooner, of course, if all night actions are in. Please continue sending all night actions to both cayvie and myself.

[Dsell]

Boom! Daytime.

You all wake up eager to see who died horribly!

You find Cuzz lying dead in the street, his throat neatly sliced. Ick. He was the Two of Pentacles, Vanilla Townie.

Day 5 Start!

[Dsell]

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

[ashersky]

Vote: Axxle

SK kill, as expected.  Axxle is the last scum, and we win with this lynch.

[Axxle]

Woah.  I doced the ww kill on grujah.

[Axxle]

Vote: ashersky

[Axxle]

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

theres four by my count

[Dsell]

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Correction: There are FOUR alive, still takes 3 to lynch.

[Dsell]

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

theres four by my count

Beat me by 23 seconds...

[ashersky]

Woah.  I doced the ww kill on grujah.

So you think there is a WW and an SK remaining?  Really?  I find it hard to believe a scum team of three WWs with a bulletproof MA LR is balanced, at all.  My role was included to help balance it with the two of them.

Oh, and you, who's got to be the WW-immune SK per your wands card.

[Axxle]

Woah.  I doced the ww kill on grujah.

So you think there is a WW and an SK remaining?  Really?  I find it hard to believe a scum team of three WWs with a bulletproof MA LR is balanced, at all.  My role was included to help balance it with the two of them.

Oh, and you, who's got to be the WW-immune SK per your wands card.

Why would Lekkit commit suicide if theres not a ww left?
Also this setup isn't guaranteed to be balanced.

[ashersky]

Woah.  I doced the ww kill on grujah.

So you think there is a WW and an SK remaining?  Really?  I find it hard to believe a scum team of three WWs with a bulletproof MA LR is balanced, at all.  My role was included to help balance it with the two of them.

Oh, and you, who's got to be the WW-immune SK per your wands card.

Why would Lekkit commit suicide if theres not a ww left?
Also this setup isn't guaranteed to be balanced.

Did you read Lekkit's post?  Most desperate sounding ever.  If he had a partner, he would have to be absolutely livid with him.  How could that suicide make any sense as a plan?  He was clearly caught, he was very likely the lynch, he just wanted to be sure town lost.  I am sure it sucks to be caught by the cop.

Besides, aren't you arguing that I'm the SK?  Or are you accusing one of the masons of being scum?

[Axxle]

I plead the DAMA!

[Axxle]

I guess you're the sk then.

[Axxle]

No pynch is a bad idea since well just lose a mason

[Axxle]

Lynch.  We'll

[Axxle]

It's poe for me now but trying to go through and find evidence.  It'll be easier for masons to do so though.

[ashersky]

Okay, Axxle is just tossing out crazy talk now.

Look, for the masons (I'm not going to convince the final scum to vote for himself), I will probably be asleep when you come online, so I leave you with this, since the game will hopefully be over with our town win when I wake up:

If I was really Lekkit's scum buddy, why in the world would we plan that suicide gambit?  If his dying confession was true, wouldn't it have made imminently more sense for me to say Axxle was the werewolf and drive that lynch through?  Then today, after an NK, Lekkit day vigs for the win, right?  Even with a roleblock on, the vig the next day ensures the game for WW.  His suicide play makes no sense if I am his partner, because it would have been so much easier to win without it.  It could only maybe work if Cuzz was his partner, or Axxle...but Cuzz is dead and Axxle is SK.

For what it's worth, Axxle is not a WW.  But we all knew that already.

[Axxle]

Robz says asher is obvscum. Asher is on his lynch.  Coincidence!? Maybe since it eas around rvs.  Stay tuned for more.

[Axxle]

Crazy talk!

Good, now thats out of the way.

[Axxle]

Can I ask a theory/setup question?

I've never played a game with multiple bad guy factions before.  Looking at the card list, there's some listed "werewolf" which sounds cool, but is otherwise just a second mafia?  Also, if there are multiple factions, are they smaller than usual?

looooool here it is.

[Axxle]

And he's an sjlk. Bah!!!!

[Axxle]

Back to print veiw

[Grujah]

pretty sure:

Vote: Axxle

though don't know why ash made the long-ass explanation for Lekkit.

[Grujah]

I mean, the only possible other solution is that Lekkit knew that ash and not Axxle are SK and than decided to suicide just so that SK could win and town lose.

That or both are scum and we lose anyway, but this is just bollocks.

Occam Razor and shit.

[Axxle]

Have you even gone back and look at the evidence? We've lost so many games because town hasn't done that in the end game.

[Dsell]

Vote Count

Axxle (2): Ashersky, Grujah (L-1)
Ashersky (1): Axxle

Not Voting: Shraeye

[Grujah]

Have you even gone back and look at the evidence? We've lost so many games because town hasn't done that in the end game.

Have you?

If you are town, that remark should be applied to you too.

Unless you think that "two team" remark by ash is completely damning?

I said, there is an SK, and you think that Lekkit did suicide on basis:
a) he wanted town to lose, even if he looses too
b) he KNEW that ash is SK and not you

[Axxle]

Have you even gone back and look at the evidence? We've lost so many games because town hasn't done that in the end game.

Have you?

If you are town, that remark should be applied to you too.

Unless you think that "two team" remark by ash is completely damning?

I said, there is an SK, and you think that Lekkit did suicide on basis:
a) he wanted town to lose, even if he looses too
b) he KNEW that ash is SK and not you

I don't really need to, it's process of elimination for me, since you masons aren't scum or we'd have already lost.  I *am* trying to go through so I can persuade you but that's not too much fun.

[Axxle]

And yeah, that remark I pulled up earlier doesn't work since ash has to be an sk.  I forgot that last night.

[ashersky]

Hey, awake and the game didn't end.  Will be available fully in about an hour, but:

And yeah, that remark I pulled up earlier doesn't work since ash has to be an sk.  I forgot that last night.

If so, why did your first post of the day still insinuate there was a WW?  Your whole I doctored the WW kill thing?

Your are grasping for straws at this point, just making things up and changing your story around because you are fully caught.

[Grujah]

Hey, awake and the game didn't end.  Will be available fully in about an hour, but:

And yeah, that remark I pulled up earlier doesn't work since ash has to be an sk.  I forgot that last night.

If so, why did your first post of the day still insinuate there was a WW?  Your whole I doctored the WW kill thing?

Your are grasping for straws at this point, just making things up and changing your story around because you are fully caught.

Yeah, actually, that
"I doctored the WW kill" is like saying you are SK.

If you [Axxle] really expected 2 kills tonight (which you did, since you said that one is missing) that would mean that there are both WW and SK alive, according to you. I know that shra and I are town, which means you are 100% scum.

[Grujah]

You even argued that there is a WW left in later posts. You actually believing in WW this day - I cannot see any situation in which it makes you not scum.

I mean, with that, it is only whether ash is scum AS WELL, but then we already lost anyway (but to WW and not SK, which Lekkit claimed was his plan). If you, it sucks. But I think it is not so.

[Grujah]

Though, my god, some ash's posts read so scummy (first post of today esp).

But reason says that you fucked up, Axxle.

[Axxle]

I was expecting a WW kill after Lekkit's outburst last night, so I thought I doctored it.  I wasn't thinking clearly, as there weren't enough people left to perform all the kills. 

[Axxle]

The day opened when I was drinking, I kept reverting to being certain ash was WW.

[Grujah]

I am the LAST person you should try to sell the "I was drunk" argument.

[Axxle]

I'm guessing you did that as scum before?

[Grujah]

I'm guessing you did that as scum before?

Yup. Was drunk, made an insane fakeclaim (of doctor) without reading the thread (in which, Cuzz claimed doctors as well) and by chance, it turned out that my claim was actually possible (Only possible setup where there are 2 doctors would have to have a JK as well, and it turned out that there was one, unknown to me). Frisk argued, that even drunk, I wouldn't fakeclaim without re-reading, or do such an insane claim. He was wrong. Then steamrolled the town

[ashersky]

Okay, ZMX fire put out, back here.  Check out this D1 gem from Axxle.  Fairly certain it's the first mention of an SK during the game at all, at post #233.  And it's in response to...nothing about SKs?

Don't have full access but. I'm the wizard (major arcana) I'm claimin because out of Galz/robz/Eevee one of them has a qt. thus I am now claiming two are town and one is not. I don't have full access unfortunately so I can't fill claim but I'm major arcana there might be a doctor so mafia wifom etc.

Based on responses I think Galz is most likely scum but I need town help

I am the wizard

Ah, sure.  SK is a possibility but much more unlikely then.

[ashersky]

Finished re-reading D1.  I was specifically looking at why Axxle killed Voltgloss.  Here Voltgloss really starts up the SK talk.

I am here now, phoneposting.  That was about 250 posts while I was asleep.  Went to bed before Eevee's claim and missed all the ensuing hijinks.

I am mulling further on my commute, but one thing that stands out to me as weird is Eevee's reluctance to claim.  If he were the "ordinary" bulletproof townie, I don't see why he wouldn't claim that at this juncture.  We know he's bulletproof - he would just be confirming what we already know.

So this has me concerned that Eevee is either the WW-immune SK, or a Major Arcana with bulletproof.  If Major, then his alignment is a big question mark.

Here, Voltgloss asks for SK theory/confirmation:

Hmm.

Well first off, that is a very detailed full claim.  Doesn't feel fake.  Insom could be lying about his alignment, but I expect his role works as he says it does.

One thing to confirm:  Insom, if a player is a Serial Killer, then I assume you wouldn't see them as having a QT, right?  (As Death in Major Arcana I, I was classified as a Serial Killer and I did not have a QT.)

I am not following why Robz's desire to claim early gives him town points.  As scum Dayvig, he could have been looking for the best target Day 1 just in case he wound up being the Day 1 lynch. 

PPE:  Insom, so I am clear:  are you suggesting Galz's comment that "if Robz hits scum he gets to live" is basically a scumslip that Robz could have hit scum if he had targeted right (i.e., picked Galz)?

PPE #2:  Galz, what the hell with the self-vote, man.  If you are town, I am just not comprehending how that is pro-town.

And here Volt reminds folks he was SK in the previous game.

@Volt RE SK: If for some reason the serial killer has a qt I would see it, if they do not I would not.

OK.  So for what it's worth, let me reiterate:  I was SK in the first Major Arcana game, and I did not have a QT.  I would expect, more likely than not, that cayvie would follow the same approach in this game.

He was clearly a threat to Axxle.  The funny thing is, Axxle literally never posts for the latter half of D1.  He comes in after hammer with a one-liner about one-liners.  He read enough to know Voltgloss could hurt his chances as an SK, though.

[Axxle]

That's not why I killed Voltgloss...

... oh wait.

[ashersky]

That's not why I killed Voltgloss...

... oh wait.

Are you still claiming to be the doctor?

[Axxle]

Yes.

[Grujah]

@ash -

that is why ANY SK might want to kill Volt, not why specifically Axxle SK might want to kill Volt. That argument sucks.

[ashersky]

@ash -

that is why ANY SK might want to kill Volt, not why specifically Axxle SK might want to kill Volt. That argument sucks.

That's a good point, I guess.  Since Axxle is the SK, though, it fits.

I re-read D2, guess who only posted 4 times total on D2.  Axxle.  It was two separate times with back-to-back short posts.  The first set was a "I'll hammer Eevee" thing, the second time was his vote and a Lynch All Major Arcana Scum joke.

[ashersky]

D3 was the Wands reveal day, when we claimed.  I went first.  Before Axxle claimed, there was this from him:

There is definitely a SK in this setup so says the flavor.

It's not necessarily a Wands though, especially because I really don't think Asher is he SK.

[Axxle]

D3 was the Wands reveal day, when we claimed.  I went first.  Before Axxle claimed, there was this from him:

There is definitely a SK in this setup so says the flavor.

It's not necessarily a Wands though, especially because I really don't think Asher is he SK.

And I was wrong.

[ashersky]

D3 was the Wands reveal day, when we claimed.  I went first.  Before Axxle claimed, there was this from him:

There is definitely a SK in this setup so says the flavor.

It's not necessarily a Wands though, especially because I really don't think Asher is he SK.

And I was wrong.

The evidence is against you.  You were roleblocked N3 and there was no SK kill.  The roleblocker and final werewolf were dead N4 and there was only an SK kill.  You admit to lying in your on D3 claim!  You are caught, and town wins.

[shraeye]

Busy now.  I will get to this in 2 days time.  I will be upset if lynches happen before then.

[Axxle]

Don't worry, that'll be impossible unless someone goes crazy and self votes or lynches you even though you're a mason.

[ashersky]

Busy now.  I will get to this in 2 days time.  I will be upset if lynches happen before then.

Don't worry.  You are the only person not voting, so unless Axxle self-votes, the game is on pause for you.

[Grujah]

You were roleblocked N3 and there was no SK kill.

O yeah, this too.

[Axxle]

Easily explained by multiple kills on the same person.

[ashersky]

Easily explained by multiple kills on the same person.

Except flavor didn't show that, and you yourself pointed to kill flavors early in the game.  I believe two kills on one body would show multiple kill flavors.  (shot and slit throat, for example)

[Grujah]

Actually, that happened Night 2 and Night 3.

So, two times there were 2 hits on the same person, and on both nights, accidently, Arch blocked you?


Yeah right.

Occam's Razor and staff.

[Grujah]

Actually, that happened Night 2 and Night 3.

Night 3 and Night 4.

[ashersky]

Actually, that happened Night 2 and Night 3.

Night 3 and Night 4.

Night 4 Arch was dead (so he didn't roleblock Axxle), and Cuzz died by SK throat slicing.

[Grujah]

Actually, that happened Night 2 and Night 3.

Night 3 and Night 4.

Night 2 and 3, I was right the first time. (And he posted whom he blocked days 3 and 4, that got me confused).
Hard to do when cayvie doesn't update first post.

Quotes:
"N2: I targeted Axxle. I was planning on roleblocking one of the Wands (yuma, ashersky, or Axxle). I didn't want to Roleblock yuma because he seemed pretty towny, didn't think ashersky was scum, he had the same thinking about Eevee as I did, and Axxle I thought was being slightly suspicious. So I roleblocked him."

-That night only yuma died, he was mauled.

"Meanwhile, I'll Roleblock Axxle until I get NKed. Or I guess I could Roleblock Lekkit. It shouldnt matter if sparky is scum."

Than, night 3, only Galz died. Next morning, Arch says
"Roleblocked Axxle."

[Axxle]

I think mauling can cover up a slit throat.

And Day 4 was opened with no flavor if I remember right.

[Grujah]

I think mauling can cover up a slit throat.

And Day 4 was opened with no flavor if I remember right.

Still, no SK kill both nights that Arch blocked you. Can't be coincidence.

Before you say "SK knew I was going to be blocked N3 so he no-killed to frame me":

Arch also said:
"I'm Roleblocking him[Axxle] tonight. Or Lekkit if sparky is scum. I wont specify which until tommorow (if I'm alive) to keep scum guessing."

In his last D3 post.

[Axxle]

Has to be coincidence from my perspective.

Or maybe ash purposefully no killed?

[shraeye]

Sorry for the delay, but I don't have the mental energy to sort out these claims/scenarios right now.  I will do it later when I can focus.

Plus, this lets me fiat that there should be some pauses between games as we calm down from one ending, then get ready excitedly for the next to start.  I feel like players are reaching some mafia-exhaustion point, where we keep playing out of a sense of duty and are getting more personal, spiteful, and unfriendly.

[Grujah]

When is the deadline?


BTW shra, as I said in mason QT, just hammer Axxle.

[Grujah]

As a side note, if he was town, he would (should?) be going around trying to prove his innocence instead of taking it calmly. He know he's SK and that he screwed up, and than we are going to lynch him anyway, so he doesn't care really

[ashersky]

When is the deadline?

No clue.  Up to Dsell at this point.

[Dsell]

When is the deadline?

No clue.  Up to Dsell at this point.

Two weeks from January 14th, so the deadline will be January 28th. Plenty of time.

[Axxle]

As a side note, if he was town, he would (should?) be going around trying to prove his innocence instead of taking it calmly. He know he's SK and that he screwed up, and than we are going to lynch him anyway, so he doesn't care really

I disappear all the time in situations like this.  Too stressful.  I'll go back through the thread this afternoon but can't promise anything.

[shraeye]

As a side note, if he was town, he would (should?) be going around trying to prove his innocence instead of taking it calmly. He know he's SK and that he screwed up, and than we are going to lynch him anyway, so he doesn't care really

I don't in general read lack of talking in a situation like this as a scumtell.

I already have like 5 pages of accusations and counter-accusations to sort out.  I'm definitely not asking anybody to keep rehashing the same case they've already said 2-3 times.  If anyone wants to put a big summary post together, that would be helpful.

More yelling back and forth would not be helpful.

[ashersky]

As a side note, if he was town, he would (should?) be going around trying to prove his innocence instead of taking it calmly. He know he's SK and that he screwed up, and than we are going to lynch him anyway, so he doesn't care really

I don't in general read lack of talking in a situation like this as a scumtell.

I already have like 5 pages of accusations and counter-accusations to sort out.  I'm definitely not asking anybody to keep rehashing the same case they've already said 2-3 times.  If anyone wants to put a big summary post together, that would be helpful.

More yelling back and forth would not be helpful.

Shraeye, if there is something helpful we can do, let us know.

Some post-game thoughts pre-post-game:

I think this game was fun, regardless of some folks finding it a bit broken.  I like how the game with no built in balance controls worked out.  I mean, mafia may have been underpowered when compared to the WW team (since they had an MA), but that was balanced by having a Seer and the WW-immune Axxle SK.  I do think this is one of our most satisfying town wins to date.

[Axxle]

ash, who did you investigate which days again?

[Axxle]

And why?

[ashersky]

ash, who did you investigate which days again?

N1: Jo
N2: Arch
N3: Lekkit
N4: Axxle

[ashersky]

And why?

Jo seemed scummy on D1, mostly for lurking.  Plus it was tough to have real reads that day.
Arch was on the side of not lynching Eevee, who flipped WW, so he was an easy choice to check.
Lekkit or you were the remaining options after the claiming business.
You on N4 since there was no one left to check.

[ashersky]

ash, who did you investigate which days again?

Axxle, who did you doctor and which day again?

And why?

[Axxle]

ash, who did you investigate which days again?

Axxle, who did you doctor and which day again?

And why?

Insomniac, because he was MA town.
Galzria, since he was obvtown
ashersky, since you claimed seer.
Grujah, since he's one of two masons.

[Axxle]

And why?

Jo seemed scummy on D1, mostly for lurking.  Plus it was tough to have real reads that day.
Arch was on the side of not lynching Eevee, who flipped WW, so he was an easy choice to check.
Lekkit or you were the remaining options after the claiming business.
You on N4 since there was no one left to check.

Why not Cuzz?

[ashersky]

And why?

Jo seemed scummy on D1, mostly for lurking.  Plus it was tough to have real reads that day.
Arch was on the side of not lynching Eevee, who flipped WW, so he was an easy choice to check.
Lekkit or you were the remaining options after the claiming business.
You on N4 since there was no one left to check.

Why not Cuzz?

On N4?  He was confirmed NOT Wand, and wands were the best place to look.  Plus I believed his VT claim, and I didn't believe your doctor claim.

Moreover, I am so positive there are no WWs left and I'm just a named townie now, it didn't matter who I investigated.  Confirming you aren't a werewolf just ensured we narrowed down the Wands cards you could be.

Why didn't you doctor Cuzz?

[ashersky]

Confirming you aren't a werewolf just ensured we narrowed down the Wands cards you could be.

Also, hint: It's Ace of Wands.

[Axxle]

Because a confirmed town mason is much stronger than Cuzz's vt claim, so Gruj or Shrae were the most likely targets.

You didn't find Cuzz worth investigating? For all we know it could have been a residual Moon effect.

[Axxle]

Confirming you aren't a werewolf just ensured we narrowed down the Wands cards you could be.

Also, hint: It's Ace of Wands.

Strange way to spell "ten".

[ashersky]

Because a confirmed town mason is much stronger than Cuzz's vt claim, so Gruj or Shrae were the most likely targets.

You didn't find Cuzz worth investigating? For all we know it could have been a residual Moon effect.

His VT claim was a residual Moon effect?  What?

[Axxle]

His VT claim was a residual Moon effect?  What?

I mean his claim that he had information that there are only 2 VT.

[ashersky]

His VT claim was a residual Moon effect?  What?

I mean his claim that he had information that there are only 2 VT.

He said it was in his PM.  Not that he received a PM later.

[Axxle]

I know what he *said*, doesn't mean it's true.

[Axxle]

(although we know now it was)

[Axxle]

Night 1, why didn't you investigate Galz or Eevee?

[ashersky]

Night 1, why didn't you investigate Galz or Eevee?

We had claims, and plenty of discussion, and it sounded to me like we weren't sure who would make it through to the next day.  I didn't see them as my best chance at finding WW the first night.

I wanted to worthwhile investigation result.  And then mafia killed Jo anyway.

Why didn't you protect Galz, who you claim was obvtown?

[Axxle]

He was obvtown night 2, after eevee's flip.  He wasn't night 1, in fact he seemed like obvscum to me since I was certain that Eevee was the bulletproof townie.

[Axxle]

He was obvtown night 2, after eevee's flip.  He wasn't night 1, in fact he seemed like obvscum to me since I was certain that Eevee was the bulletproof townie.

Well I should say day 1 when he showed he was a strongman vig.

[Axxle]

He was obvtown night 2, after eevee's flip.  He wasn't night 1, in fact he seemed like obvscum to me since I was certain that Eevee was the bulletproof townie.

Well I should say day 1 when he showed he was a strongman vig.

day 2...

[Grujah]

Axxle, why not Galz night 3?

[Axxle]

I thought having a seer is more important than having obvtown Galz with WW still running around.

[Grujah]

But Galzwas obvtown, Ash did nothing to prove his seerness, he was as likely scum?

[Axxle]

100% town, 0% power (Galz) vs 50% power, 50% town (ash).  or so.  It was a bit of a tossup.  Even said as much that day.

[ashersky]

Should we start talking contingency plans?  It's possible this game goes back into night with a no-lynch at the deadline.

Best guess is Axxle kills Grujah, hoping to sway Shraeye to his cause against me.  If there are two scum left, as Axxle oddly posited at day start (I don't see this as a possibility at this point) they could each kill a mason and tie.  Axxle can't kill me or he loses his only viable mislynch...

[Grujah]

Should we start talking contingency plans?  It's possible this game goes back into night with a no-lynch at the deadline.

Best guess is Axxle kills Grujah, hoping to sway Shraeye to his cause against me.  If there are two scum left, as Axxle oddly posited at day start (I don't see this as a possibility at this point) they could each kill a mason and tie.  Axxle can't kill me or he loses his only viable mislynch...

You sound so scummy right nooooooow..

lynch axxel.

[ashersky]

Should we start talking contingency plans?  It's possible this game goes back into night with a no-lynch at the deadline.

Best guess is Axxle kills Grujah, hoping to sway Shraeye to his cause against me.  If there are two scum left, as Axxle oddly posited at day start (I don't see this as a possibility at this point) they could each kill a mason and tie.  Axxle can't kill me or he loses his only viable mislynch...

You sound so scummy right nooooooow..

lynch axxel.

Why?  Because I'd like to win as a town cop for once?  Look at the sig--RMM4, loss as town cop; MXV--loss as town cop. You have to go back to ZM2 to find a win for town when I rolled a town cop.

[ashersky]

Actually, ZM2 is my last town win with any PR.  Yeesh, that's a harsh run.

[Grujah]

Should we start talking contingency plans?  It's possible this game goes back into night with a no-lynch at the deadline.

Best guess is Axxle kills Grujah, hoping to sway Shraeye to his cause against me.  If there are two scum left, as Axxle oddly posited at day start (I don't see this as a possibility at this point) they could each kill a mason and tie.  Axxle can't kill me or he loses his only viable mislynch...

You sound so scummy right nooooooow..

lynch axxel.

Why?  Because I'd like to win as a town cop for once?  Look at the sig--RMM4, loss as town cop; MXV--loss as town cop. You have to go back to ZM2 to find a win for town when I rolled a town cop.

1. You are making some '"plans" about tonight, which are nothing but reiterting known facts that do not need to be repeated.

2. You are not allowed to write "I do not see that as a possibility at this point'". You must write - that is impossible. Set in stone. From your point of view, there is 1 scum and it axxle. Only other option is that me and shra are both scum and lying, but that is impossible as we would have won.


ONLY THINGS that is keeping my vote on axxle is:he was blocked twice and those nights had no SK kill and he lied about the role. Otherwise I would be voting for you ash, no questions asked.

[ashersky]

Should we start talking contingency plans?  It's possible this game goes back into night with a no-lynch at the deadline.

Best guess is Axxle kills Grujah, hoping to sway Shraeye to his cause against me.  If there are two scum left, as Axxle oddly posited at day start (I don't see this as a possibility at this point) they could each kill a mason and tie.  Axxle can't kill me or he loses his only viable mislynch...

You sound so scummy right nooooooow..

lynch axxel.

Why?  Because I'd like to win as a town cop for once?  Look at the sig--RMM4, loss as town cop; MXV--loss as town cop. You have to go back to ZM2 to find a win for town when I rolled a town cop.

1. You are making some '"plans" about tonight, which are nothing but reiterting known facts that do not need to be repeated.

2. You are not allowed to write "I do not see that as a possibility at this point'". You must write - that is impossible. Set in stone. From your point of view, there is 1 scum and it axxle. Only other option is that me and shra are both scum and lying, but that is impossible as we would have won.


ONLY THINGS that is keeping my vote on axxle is:he was blocked twice and those nights had no SK kill and he lied about the role. Otherwise I would be voting for you ash, no questions asked.

From my point of view, it is impossible that we haven't already won, man.  Why is Shraeye stalling?  You two are masons, so conf!town to each other.  I believe it.  SK Axxle believes it.  Shraeye has been around, active in other games, but ignoring here.  Aren't you a bit antsy, too?

We are all going to feel super stupid if you two pulled off some awesome gambit.  I 100% believe you, so it'll really suck if I'm wrong.

I just want us to win.

[shraeye]

I want to read this day before voting.  I haven't read at all yet.

The more random stuff you type, the harder it is for me to catch up.

I'll get here; it's just not a high priority.

[Grujah]

Aren't you a bit antsy, too?

YES.

[shraeye]

If so, why did your first post of the day still insinuate there was a WW?  Your whole I doctored the WW kill thing?

Your are grasping for straws at this point, just making things up and changing your story around because you are fully caught.

this resonates with me.  Obviously you couldn't have doctored a kill if there is one kill with 2 masons, 1 asher, 1 dead town (Cuzz) and one Axxle (supposed doctor).

[shraeye]

The roleblocker and final werewolf were dead N4 and there was only an SK kill.  You admit to lying in your on D3 claim!  You are caught, and town wins.

Still possible that ashersky IS a WW, maybe 70% possibility.

[shraeye]

Night 2 and 3, I was right the first time. (And he posted whom he blocked days 3 and 4, that got me confused).
Hard to do when cayvie doesn't update first post.

Quotes:
"N2: I targeted Axxle. I was planning on roleblocking one of the Wands (yuma, ashersky, or Axxle). I didn't want to Roleblock yuma because he seemed pretty towny, didn't think ashersky was scum, he had the same thinking about Eevee as I did, and Axxle I thought was being slightly suspicious. So I roleblocked him."

-That night only yuma died, he was mauled.

"Meanwhile, I'll Roleblock Axxle until I get NKed. Or I guess I could Roleblock Lekkit. It shouldnt matter if sparky is scum."

Than, night 3, only Galz died. Next morning, Arch says
"Roleblocked Axxle."

Yup, Axxle has got to be SK.  100%.

[shraeye]

So that's that.

I'm faced with 100% SK axxle, and 70% WW ashersky.

Gotta lynch known scum.

Vote: Axxle

[Axxle]

well played, ash.  well played.

[Grujah]

Finally.

[Grujah]

Common, Dsell/cayvie,give us a flip.

That or you two be honest now.

[ashersky]

Common, Dsell/cayvie,give us a flip.

That or you two be honest now.

That should be a town win, right?  I mean, unless you and shraeye are both lying and are both WW or mafia...which would suck really badly.

I did convince myself that's impossible, though, since shraeye wouldn't have taken so long to hammer for the win, given you win with majority now that Axxle's NK is gone.

[Grujah]

Common, Dsell/cayvie,give us a flip.

That or you two be honest now.

That should be a town win, right?  I mean, unless you and shraeye are both lying and are both WW or mafia...which would suck really badly.

I did convince myself that's impossible, though, since shraeye wouldn't have taken so long to hammer for the win, given you win with majority now that Axxle's NK is gone.

Be a good guy and give us your true flip, ash, I cannot stand this no more.

[Axxle]

I'll give you my flip, it's: DSell can tell you

[Grujah]

................

[ashersky]

Man, where is Dsell to confirm Axxle is the SK???

[Axxle]

I can quote my PM if you want...

[ashersky]

Dsell was online 20 minutes ago!!!

[Dsell]

Ashersky and Grujah had decided. Axxle was defiant. The town was at a standoff.

"Shraeye!" cried Ashersky. "Shraeye!" yelled Grujah. "I...I just want to lynch Axxle. My life will feel so incomplete until we can string him up!"

But Shraeye was no where to be found. No, he was vacationing in Aruba! Or something. The town was just going to have to wait.

Axxle rubbed his neck, even tried on the noose a couple times when he thought no one was looking. He would not accept his fate, but he could feel the inevitability of it all closing in on him. It was at one of these times that Shraeye decided to unexpectedly arrive home! He dropped his luggage and dragged Axxle to the center of town.

"This man is responsible for the deaths around these parts! I know it to be true. It must be true! 100%"

And that was that.

Axxle has been lynched.

He was the Ace of Wands, Serial Killer.

Shraeye, Ashersky, and Grujah all looked at each other and cheered! They raised their hands to the full moon and embraced in a hug. But, but wait...Grujah didn't remember Ashersky feeling so hairy, and why was he growing taller?? Before he could say "grab the quicksilver," Grujah's fellow Mason, Shraeye, was torn limb from limb.

Ashersky is the Queen of Wands, Werewolf Rolecop.

Congratulations Ashersky, Lekkit, and Eevee! Werewolves win!

[Eevee]

yay our team yay!

[Jimmmmm]

And everyone who is not shraeye breathes a massive sigh of relief.

[Dsell]

Modchat QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/yTzRaZPrPRS3
Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/BJtBB4LZxRJV6
Werewolf QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/srfKpMvYu2v
SK QT (Almost empty): http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/srfKpMvYu2v
Spectator QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/qgCAnf4H6s3

[Robz888]

How on earth...

[shraeye]

why are non-shraeyes relieved?  why am i not relieved?

[Robz888]

So there were 9 town-aligned players, andSEVEN scum?

[eHalcyon]

What the heck is moonsickness?

@shraeye, everyone wanted you to just end the game for all that time you were stalling.

[Axxle]

I was super paranoid that Cuzz was somehow also a WW, I'm really glad to see that Lekkit was playing toward his wincon though, I would have been pretty mad if he just threw the game away by using his daykill and not trying to weasel his way out of it.

I agree with sparky Cuzz's townclaim was way too out of left field though, luckily I was going to fakeclaim doctor the next day anyway.

[Robz888]

Okay, well I'm a little cross about this, frankly. It's not so surprising that town was in a no-win scenario against two different scum factions, given there were way too many scum to begin with!

[Axxle]

Our MA role was super powerful though.

[Axxle]

Lol, at least I convinced MYSELF that I was town.  I mean your MA was pretty powerful, and you had a ninja doctor.

[ashersky]

I was super paranoid that Cuzz was somehow also a WW, I'm really glad to see that Lekkit was playing toward his wincon though, I would have been pretty mad if he just threw the game away by using his daykill and not trying to weasel his way out of it.

I agree with sparky Cuzz's townclaim was way too out of left field though, luckily I was going to fakeclaim doctor the next day anyway.

Clearly Lekkit and I disagreed with his decision to play it that way.  I mean, we won in the end, though.

I'd point people back to my completely honest explanation of how I thought we could win much more easily.  I really should have said Axxle was a WW, gotten that lynch through, and sailed to victory.

For the record, I did investigate Jo N1.  Axxle N2 (blocked by WW-proofness).  After that it didn't matter.

[ashersky]

Our MA role was super powerful though.

And me being the Seer really did help even things out...oh wait.

[Jimmmmm]

why are non-shraeyes relieved?  why am i not relieved?

That it's finally over. Maybe this is just me because my team was dead and gone long ago so I really didn't care who won, just wanted to see why I was NKed.

[Robz888]

Lol, at least I convinced MYSELF that I was town.  I mean your MA was pretty powerful, and you had a ninja doctor.

Uh, well, the town played I think perfectly and still never would have had a chance, even after a miraculous number of scum deaths night 1. So...

[Jimmmmm]

Modchat QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/yTzRaZPrPRS3
Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/BJtBB4LZxRJV6
Werewolf QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/srfKpMvYu2v
SK QT (Almost empty): http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/srfKpMvYu2v
Spectator QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/qgCAnf4H6s3

The SK QT here actually links to the WW QT.

[Axxle]

It's interesting how giving flavor to kills actually makes it a lot more difficult for scum.

[Axxle]

SK chat: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/jCvG5BRQLPbzF

[Jimmmmm]

Also, I had the only Vanilla role in the game.

[jotheonah]

I was VT!

[Eevee]

The game was kind of weird for me, I must say.

[Jimmmmm]

I was VT!

No you weren't.

[Jimmmmm]

The two VTs' setup info both had major parts to play in the game. We killed you because we thought you had to be MA or lying. And Cuzz was probably the most powerful "VT" in the history of Mafia.

[Galzria]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

[jotheonah]

[color=blue
jotheonah is full of bullet holes!
he was the Three of Cups, Vanilla Townie.

[ashersky]

[color=blue
jotheonah is full of bullet holes!
he was the Three of Cups, Vanilla Townie.

I think Jimmmmm's point is that you knew there were 2 swords, which makes you more than vanilla.

[Eevee]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

This is what happens when you draw the setup randomly from a deck of cards though. We knew what we were in for.. That being said, I definitely don't feel like I outplayed other factions or anything like that despite winning the game. I got myself lynced day 2 as major arcana scum!

[jotheonah]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

Sometimes you think a setup is balanced and you miss the obvious.

[Jimmmmm]

[color=blue
jotheonah is full of bullet holes!
he was the Three of Cups, Vanilla Townie.

I think Jimmmmm's point is that you knew there were 2 swords, which makes you more than vanilla.

Being called a Vanilla Townie doesn't make you a Vanilla Townie. Vanilla Townies do not have setup info.

[Axxle]

Town also had the vig hit town with his strongman shot.

[Eevee]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

Sometimes you think a setup is balanced and you miss the obvious.

Worth noting mafia also felt like they were at a disadvantage because of Cuzz (well, at least sparky did). I guess us WW's won the lottery!

[ashersky]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

I think that, if Axxle had no killed the final night along with me, town would have won.

We probably would have lynched Axxle, right?  But then what?  Game didn't end.  I probably would have killed shraeye at night, said Cuzz was a WW, and hoped Grujah would believe me.  Don't know if that works, but if it doesn't, town wins.

[ashersky]

I think losing Insom really hurt town.  His powers were pretty game-changing, if he had been able to use them.  Even his D1 relevation killed off our MA.

[Dsell]

This game was weird for me too. I really inherited it. I think some of the weirdness of this game came from the very, very strange day 1. That series of events led to: Town lynch D1, Town 1-shot vig shooting Town MA, Town 1-shot dayvig wasting his shot. Those things all really really hurt the town. And scum did not shoot each other all that much, although that is always a huge variable in multiple scum-team games. Although, I think MVI is a good case study of why it might very well be best for scum to try to shoot town rather than opposing scum, at least early. I think we saw some strong scum play here. But I agree that the last several days looked highly bleak for town.

[Jimmmmm]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

Sometimes you think a setup is balanced and you miss the obvious.

Worth noting mafia also felt like they were at a disadvantage because of Cuzz (well, at least sparky did). I guess us WW's won the lottery!

Well yeah, Cuzz and MA/Rolecop/1-shot dayvig >>> Roleblocker/Watcher/Vanilla.

[ashersky]

This game was weird for me too. I really inherited it. I think some of the weirdness of this game came from the very, very strange day 1. That series of events led to: Town lynch D1, Town 1-shot vig shooting Town MA, Town 1-shot dayvig wasting his shot. Those things all really really hurt the town. And scum did not shoot each other all that much, although that is always a huge variable in multiple scum-team games. Although, I think MVI is a good case study of why it might very well be best for scum to try to shoot town rather than opposing scum, at least early. I think we saw some strong scum play here. But I agree that the last several days looked highly bleak for town.

Got any MVP nominations?  I'm sure yuma will ask.

[shraeye]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

I think that, if Axxle had no killed the final night along with me, town would have won.

We probably would have lynched Axxle, right?  But then what?  Game didn't end.  I probably would have killed shraeye at night, said Cuzz was a WW, and hoped Grujah would believe me.  Don't know if that works, but if it doesn't, town wins.

If Axxle no-killed, I would have lynched you; then axxle.  If you had killed, I would have lynched you first as promised.  You did the only thing which could have saved you, and I still waffled over it (so well done!).

Lol at the spectator quicktopic for not thinking that ashersky could have been WW.  I was really really close to deciding that and lynching ashersky (or at least split 2v2 with grujah on Axxle and me on ashersky).  Then Axxle would have won.

[ashersky]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

I think that, if Axxle had no killed the final night along with me, town would have won.

We probably would have lynched Axxle, right?  But then what?  Game didn't end.  I probably would have killed shraeye at night, said Cuzz was a WW, and hoped Grujah would believe me.  Don't know if that works, but if it doesn't, town wins.

If Axxle no-killed, I would have lynched you; then axxle.  If you had killed, I would have lynched you first as promised.  You did the only thing which could have saved you, and I still waffled over it (so well done!).

Lol at the spectator quicktopic for not thinking that ashersky could have been WW.  I was really really close to deciding that and lynching ashersky (or at least split 2v2 with grujah on Axxle and me on ashersky).  Then Axxle would have won.

You'll see in the WW chat that I came very quickly to the "no-kill is my only option" frame of mind.

[Dsell]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

Sometimes you think a setup is balanced and you miss the obvious.

I disagree that it was SO obviously unbalanced. This game was drawn from the same deck as the last MA game, and town had the dual advantage of a Major Arcana role and the VTs getting setup info. In fact, the VT setup info was very probably too much of an advantage for town (or perhaps I should say, too much of a disadvantage for Mafia).

[Cuzz]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

I think that, if Axxle had no killed the final night along with me, town would have won.

We probably would have lynched Axxle, right?  But then what?  Game didn't end.  I probably would have killed shraeye at night, said Cuzz was a WW, and hoped Grujah would believe me.  Don't know if that works, but if it doesn't, town wins.

If Axxle no-killed, I would have lynched you; then axxle.  If you had killed, I would have lynched you first as promised.  You did the only thing which could have saved you, and I still waffled over it (so well done!).

Lol at the spectator quicktopic for not thinking that ashersky could have been WW.  I was really really close to deciding that and lynching ashersky (or at least split 2v2 with grujah on Axxle and me on ashersky).  Then Axxle would have won.

The spec QT didn't care if ashersky was WW, because if he was, town can't win anyway. There was nothing to gain by worrying about that possibility, unless you really cared about kingmaking.

[yuma]

yuck....

[Cuzz]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

Sometimes you think a setup is balanced and you miss the obvious.

I disagree that it was SO obviously unbalanced. This game was drawn from the same deck as the last MA game, and town had the dual advantage of a Major Arcana role and the VTs getting setup info. In fact, the VT setup info was very probably too much of an advantage for town (or perhaps I should say, too much of a disadvantage for Mafia).

I dunno if a game with 7 scum players out of 16 could be not obviously unbalanced... That's 0 mislynched territory anyway regardless of other powers.

[yuma]

I will say this... that the more players, the more roles, and the more complications... the harder it is to tell if a game is balanced beforehand, but also after the fact. I am sure there were conceivable situations where town runs away with this game... but because of all the variables it is very hard to predict.

I think this is why I do not enjoy the larger, more complex setups as much. They are fun and I think they have their place. But I fear that this game and a few others are creeping too close to that place, which in my opinion, is Role Madness games... Again, that is my opinion. But for normal games I would like to see smaller games, with less players, less roles and thereby an easier game to gauge for balance. Save the craziness and powerful roles for Role Madness. But if others feel different from me, then so be it. I will likely play regardless.

[Robz888]

I will say this... that the more players, the more roles, and the more complications... the harder it is to tell if a game is balanced beforehand, but also after the fact. I am sure there were conceivable situations where town runs away with this game... but because of all the variables it is very hard to predict.

I think this is why I do not enjoy the larger, more complex setups as much. They are fun and I think they have their place. But I fear that this game and a few others are creeping too close to that place, which in my opinion, is Role Madness games... Again, that is my opinion. But for normal games I would like to see smaller games, with less players, less roles and thereby an easier game to gauge for balance. Save the craziness and powerful roles for Role Madness. But if others feel different from me, then so be it. I will likely play regardless.

I mean... I don't want to toot my own horn or anything, by I argue that my game, Mafia XI, did end up being just about perfectly balanced, both in theory and in practice (except for Frisk's weird Sk role, it probably would have been really hard for Frisk to win). It came down to the absolute closest it could have been, neither side got extremely lucky, both had moments of brilliance and moments of sad, sad, failure... But in the end the team that played better did win. And despite an overwhelming amount of night powers, none titled the game unfairly one way or the other.

This game though, ugh. 1 mislynch, and town had already lost. You just can't do that.

[Robz888]

Well.

That was unexpected.

So... As completely unbalanced as having Cuzz's claim was (we never missed a lynch after), it was still impossible for town to win?

Like, what were our outs here? No-lynch and pray the two scum shoot each other?

We mislynched Robz. That was it. EVERY other lynch was on scum.

I mean... The only way town was going to win is if we got the right lynch D1 and then never missed going forward. That's rather ridiculous...

I think that, if Axxle had no killed the final night along with me, town would have won.

We probably would have lynched Axxle, right?  But then what?  Game didn't end.  I probably would have killed shraeye at night, said Cuzz was a WW, and hoped Grujah would believe me.  Don't know if that works, but if it doesn't, town wins.

If Axxle no-killed, I would have lynched you; then axxle.  If you had killed, I would have lynched you first as promised.  You did the only thing which could have saved you, and I still waffled over it (so well done!).

Lol at the spectator quicktopic for not thinking that ashersky could have been WW.  I was really really close to deciding that and lynching ashersky (or at least split 2v2 with grujah on Axxle and me on ashersky).  Then Axxle would have won.

The spec QT didn't care if ashersky was WW, because if he was, town can't win anyway. There was nothing to gain by worrying about that possibility, unless you really cared about kingmaking.

Yes, exactly. There was no point considering that scenario, because it was a stupid. If it were true, the town was in a no-win scenario despite near-perfect play, and that couldn't be the case, could it?! Oh it, was. Okay, sorry we didn't bank on that.

[Jimmmmm]

Anyway, thanks to cayvie and Dsell for running the game. It was fun, even if it wasn't super-balanced.

[Archetype]

Just saw this. No I didn't consider ashersky to be scum because SEVEN scum?!? Like Robz said, that's nearly an unwinnable situation.

Heck,I even blocked a kill each night. Scum would have won a lot earlier if I hadn't.

I think one of the WW should have been a VT, and then the VTs be given no additional info. That would have balanced it a lot more, but it's still a lot of scum.

[Robz888]

I mean, yeah, Day 1 was a lot of fun. I don't deny it was fun. It just should have been role madness or bastard or something. And I hope we didn't lose cayvie over it, she still hasn't been back.

[Archetype]

Anyway, thanks to cayvie and Dsell for running the game. It was fun, even if it wasn't super-balanced.

Yes thank you for doing this you 2. Wanted to be in a MA game since I read the thread for the first game.

[yuma]

I mean... I don't want to toot my own horn or anything, by I argue that my game, Mafia XI, did end up being just about perfectly balanced, both in theory and in practice (except for Frisk's weird Sk role, it probably would have been really hard for Frisk to win). It came down to the absolute closest it could have been, neither side got extremely lucky, both had moments of brilliance and moments of sad, sad, failure... But in the end the team that played better did win. And despite an overwhelming amount of night powers, none titled the game unfairly one way or the other.

This game though, ugh. 1 mislynch, and town had already lost. You just can't do that.

I agree, your game was pretty balanced. Well... town should have won pretty easily.... but you are right ups and downs for both teams and then a last minute win is balanced. But what I am saying is that creating large balanced games is difficult. I have tried and failed. I am not saying we don't have the people to do it, or that we shouldn't try to do it. But rather that those sort of games should perhaps be the exceptions?

I don't know. Maybe I am just not as adventurous. No, actually I know I am not. Let me put it this way. If I am going to devote 1-2 months on a game I want to play something that is tried and true to be balanced, rather than something new and unknown (and we have a great resource in mafiascum approved games). Others will have a different opinion and want the new games, with new mechanics, and that is fine... I do as well... sometimes....

[Insomniac]

Quite frankly this is ridiculous.

Town was RIDICULOUSLY overpowered, only miss lynched once, AND we still lost? There is no way in hell this game should count for stats.

[Robz888]

Quite frankly this is ridiculous.

Town was RIDICULOUSLY overpowered, only miss lynched once, AND we still lost? There is no way in hell this game should count for stats.

This and Blitz2!

[Insomniac]

Quite frankly this is ridiculous.

Town was RIDICULOUSLY overpowered, only miss lynched once, AND we still lost? There is no way in hell this game should count for stats.

This and Blitz2!

RE Blitz2, maybe don't bus your partner so hard day 1

[Insomniac]

Quite frankly this is ridiculous.

Town was RIDICULOUSLY overpowered, only miss lynched once, AND we still lost? There is no way in hell this game should count for stats.

This and Blitz2!

RE Blitz2, maybe don't bus your partner so hard day 1

Oh and shoot obvcops

[Robz888]

Quite frankly this is ridiculous.

Town was RIDICULOUSLY overpowered, only miss lynched once, AND we still lost? There is no way in hell this game should count for stats.

This and Blitz2!

RE Blitz2, maybe don't bus your partner so hard day 1

Oh and shoot obvcops

I was committed to the random voting! Committed, I say!

[eHalcyon]

So does anybody know what Moonsickness is?  Eevee?

[Archetype]

So does anybody know what Moonsickness is?  Eevee?

In the Mod QT it talked about it. Something about making moonsicked players PGOs...?

[Dsell]

So does anybody know what Moonsickness is?  Eevee?

It's in the modchat QT. Anybody with moonsickness goes into a frenzy the night after the moon dies and kills their targets rather than performing their normal night action.

[Axxle]

Town had some powers that they squandered though, vig wasted his shot on town, strong MA killed by town night 1, day vig shoots a bulletproof player, not really near perfect play, good play, but not near perfect.

[Axxle]

MA outing himself day 1 for a 1 of 3 scum wasn't great play either.

[Robz888]

Town had some powers that they squandered though, vig wasted his shot on town, strong MA killed by town night 1, day vig shoots a bulletproof player, not really near perfect play, good play, but not near perfect.

But the town should not need powers to compensate for bad lynches if the lynches themselves were pretty good, as they were here.

[Jimmmmm]

A thought I had: imagine if WWs/SK had've hit Town N1 as well: 4/3/3/1, nearly twice as many scum as Town.

[ashersky]

Town had some powers that they squandered though, vig wasted his shot on town, strong MA killed by town night 1, day vig shoots a bulletproof player, not really near perfect play, good play, but not near perfect.

But the town should not need powers to compensate for bad lynches if the lynches themselves were pretty good, as they were here.

Good lynches, plus a roleblocker who blocked kills two nights in a row.  I see town's point.  But hey, I won, so who cares? 

Seriously though, balance is hard when it's all up to chance.  Chips fell where they would.  Some "unlucky" (I won't say bad) town calls on D1 and N1 really shot town in the foot, though.  Robz's failed vig and Galz's shot on town/MA were two big ones.

I do wonder if Galz is right that he'd be the D2 lynch for sure if he kills scum!Eevee.  I'm not sure of that.  The man is wily.

Also, LOL @galz pointing out how scummy I seem at mylo/lylo no matter what I do in the speccy.

[ashersky]

A thought I had: imagine if WWs/SK had've hit Town N1 as well: 4/3/3/1, nearly twice as many scum as Town.

Imagine mafia shot Lekkit on N1.  WW down to two, Eevee dead on D2, plus we lose our vig.  Then we'd be looking really underpowered.

Balance is an issue, but who does what with the powers out there matter, too.

[Jimmmmm]

A thought I had: imagine if WWs/SK had've hit Town N1 as well: 4/3/3/1, nearly twice as many scum as Town.

Imagine mafia shot Lekkit on N1.  WW down to two, Eevee dead on D2, plus we lose our vig.  Then we'd be looking really underpowered.

Balance is an issue, but who does what with the powers out there matter, too.

I was thinking from a Town perspective. Town has no control over scum kills, and could have been at that point after just one mislynch.

[Robz888]

Town actually got lucky that more nightkills didn't go against them, and our lynches were pretty good. And we roleblocked some scum kills! .... and had no chance in the end game.

[Archetype]

Town actually got lucky that more nightkills didn't go against them, and our lynches were pretty good. And we roleblocked some scum kills! .... and had no chance in the end game.

I think we may have had a chance if I hadn't been Dayvigged by Lekkit. That was excellent play on his part and really sealed the deal for his team.

[Insomniac]

MA outing himself day 1 for a 1 of 3 scum wasn't great play either.

I think my play was fine. AND yuma doctored me.

[Insomniac]

And regardless are you actually saying that this game was balanced.

[Axxle]

I think the game was swingy but balanced for what it was.

[Robz888]

I think the game was swingy but balanced for what it was.

I disagree vehemently. I think the town loses here maybe 9 times out of 10.

[Dsell]

I think the game was swingy but balanced for what it was.

I disagree vehemently. I think the town loses here maybe 9 times out of 10.

From your point of view, is the problem the deck, and that any randomly chosen setup (based on drawing from the deck and then assigning 2 MA) will be unbalanced in favor of scum? Or was this setup just randomly more difficult for town than average? Because cayvie just drew from the deck and then assigned MA. (Based on what roles had already been drawn, I believe she picked the correct factions for MA.)

[Robz888]

I think the game was swingy but balanced for what it was.

I disagree vehemently. I think the town loses here maybe 9 times out of 10.

From your point of view, is the problem the deck, and that any randomly chosen setup (based on drawing from the deck and then assigning 2 MA) will be unbalanced in favor of scum? Or was this setup just randomly more difficult for town than average? Because cayvie just drew from the deck and then assigned MA. (Based on what roles had already been drawn, I believe she picked the correct factions for MA.)

The problem is very clear: the ratio of scum to town is way, way, way off. There are 7 scum in 16 players. For reference, M-XI had 7 scum in 26 players.

Then, add in the fact that several of the town were super powered and several of the scum were super powered.

So the outcome was always going to be swingy--because of the powers--but the baseline game was hugely imbalanced to begin with.

[Insomniac]

7 scum in 16 players is just far too much regardless of the powers.

[Lekkit]

Wiie!

Also, ashersky, I think I need to explain myself to you. I didn't really think I could've avoided a lynch. And that's why I outed myself as well as "framing" you. By doing so I basically told Axxle not to kill you. I don't think he would've done that either way, since he needed another WW to be able to win. And 3+3+1 scum can't really be true, right? Especially if you no-killed. I thought Axxle had to kill to be able to win, since there was a possibility he was the last scum. If you no-killed (which you realised you had to do) it would basically be pretty much confirmed scum or possibly scum to lynch the next day. At that point lynching you would be pretty stupid. But you would most likely survive the night.

[Lekkit]

And while I agree the game wasn't really balanced, I really enjoyed it.

[ashersky]

Wiie!

Also, ashersky, I think I need to explain myself to you. I didn't really think I could've avoided a lynch. And that's why I outed myself as well as "framing" you. By doing so I basically told Axxle not to kill you. I don't think he would've done that either way, since he needed another WW to be able to win. And 3+3+1 scum can't really be true, right? Especially if you no-killed. I thought Axxle had to kill to be able to win, since there was a possibility he was the last scum. If you no-killed (which you realised you had to do) it would basically be pretty much confirmed scum or possibly scum to lynch the next day. At that point lynching you would be pretty stupid. But you would most likely survive the night.

Sorry I blew up at you.  In the end it worked out anyway.  I see your point there, on keeping Axxle from killing me.  I can't see how he would, since he needed an alternate lynch, though.

[Axxle]

I really should have no killed too.

[Lekkit]

And tried to frame Cuzz?

[Axxle]

Or let ash dig his grave.

[Grujah]

7 scum in 16 players is just far too much regardless of the powers.

Yeah, it was unwinable for us even before last game. PRobably when Arch died. We would hve only won if Axxle shoot ash.

[Grujah]

And I knew 100% that Axxle is SK, and was pretty sure that ash is WW too as he was superscummy, but I couldn't ahve done anything anyway :s

[Insomniac]

Honestly I think my claim day 1 was fine as it started town down the right path and I fault nobody's play (even Galz shooting me) I think the entire town played really really well here and even made the right call in lylo. We had just already lost when we had our first miss lynch

[Ozle]

What did the Major Arcana do again?

[Robz888]

Honestly I think my claim day 1 was fine as it started town down the right path and I fault nobody's play (even Galz shooting me) I think the entire town played really really well here and even made the right call in lylo. We had just already lost when we had our first miss lynch

Agreed, and this is why I'm pretty cross here. I don't fault your claim, Insomniac. And then, hell, I even made the right decision from there, I DID shoot the scum in our group!

[Insomniac]

Honestly I think my claim day 1 was fine as it started town down the right path and I fault nobody's play (even Galz shooting me) I think the entire town played really really well here and even made the right call in lylo. We had just already lost when we had our first miss lynch

Agreed, and this is why I'm pretty cross here. I don't fault your claim, Insomniac. And then, hell, I even made the right decision from there, I DID shoot the scum in our group!

It just happened to be MA scum! TOO powerful.