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[ednever]

Dominion is incredibly designed to avoid any possibility of a stale mate.

Almost every way to win involves buying down VP cards - which cause the game to end. The only exceptions are Goons, Bishop and Monument. Goons and Bishop need to keep buying things to get the VP - which almost always brings the game to an end. In theory one could play a Monument engine that doesn't buy anything - but in practice the +$2 it gets every time it's played encourages you to pick up green at some point - and eventually end the game on provinces...

But today I played a game that actually turned into a stale mate. I've never seen anything like it:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/23/game-20121223-200910-3b7bbb65.html

Basically the scenario was this:
- 2 Embargos on Provinces
- The only +buy was Contraband
- Cities were in play and had been split pretty evenly
- Border Villages were already empty - so Level 2 Cities

Neither one of us wanted to empty a 2nd pile - it would let the other person get the City +buys and end it on their terms.

Both Cities and Monuments were down to one card. I was working my way through Envoys when my opponent gave up (I had the edge on Monuments - 5 to 4, and I had got started on getting the moument VP a little earlier than he did). But when I got the Envoys down to 1, I wasn't sure what I should do next. I think pick up a Contraband. He gets forced to name one of the two single-card piles. I start running down a fourth pile until it has one card in it and I can play Contraband and empty two of the three piles he lets me.

Would have been a weird drawn-out ending.

anyone else ever had a true stale-mate? Or something close to it?

I guess it can happen with Possession mirrors a little - but even there you try to buy as much green as you can...

Ed

[ftl]

Even in this case, it wasn't a true stalemate; just a really drawn-out ending! But a really really really drawn out one. You were definitely guaranteed the win if you played it right, barring some really really bad shuffle luck.

[ednever]

Even in this case, it wasn't a true stalemate; just a really drawn-out ending! But a really really really drawn out one. You were definitely guaranteed the win if you played it right, barring some really really bad shuffle luck.

Fair enough. What if Counterfeit wasn't there?

I guess even then, I'd just draw out the game so far that I would have enough of an edge in chips I wouldn't be worried about him having a mega City turn.

But very weird game when you have $14 and choose not to buy anything...

Ed

[Obi Wan Bonogi]

I dont remember it that clearly any more but I played an extremely tedious psuedo-stale-mate possesion game once.  I don't remember if I won or how it ended.  But my vivid memories are that it took well over an hour and that I hate possession.

[timchen]

You played that game with me!

[hsiale]

There is a simple possibility of a stalemate if both players go for a deck of 4x Bishop, 4x Fortress (12 VP per turn, no trashing, no buying).

[cherdano]

I always wondered whether there could be a stale mate where both players come down to deck that they can draw on every turn, and that includes two smugglers.

[eHalcyon]

And it still ended in 18 turns!

Was it the right decision for neither player to pick up Provinces?  Even double embargoed, it's worth a net +4 VP.  Two Curses makes it a scary proposition though.

[zahlman]

And it still ended in 18 turns!

Was it the right decision for neither player to pick up Provinces?  Even double embargoed, it's worth a net +4 VP.  Two Curses makes it a scary proposition though.

Duchy exists...

Possession can cause this kind of protracted game too, if both players go for the "build something that can play Possession consistently but can't quite buy Provinces" approach. You can't pick up a Province from your opponent's deck, and if you try to pick up economy instead, your opponent will be able to get Provinces from yours.

[eHalcyon]

And it still ended in 18 turns!

Was it the right decision for neither player to pick up Provinces?  Even double embargoed, it's worth a net +4 VP.  Two Curses makes it a scary proposition though.

Duchy exists...

Possession can cause this kind of protracted game too, if both players go for the "build something that can play Possession consistently but can't quite buy Provinces" approach. You can't pick up a Province from your opponent's deck, and if you try to pick up economy instead, your opponent will be able to get Provinces from yours.

Duchy was embargoed too, and neither player bought a Duchy!  And even if Duchy were not embargoed, the Province still grants slightly more net VP.  But in that case, not having two extra dead cards makes the Duchy more attractive.

[-Stef-]

I always wondered whether there could be a stale mate where both players come down to deck that they can draw on every turn, and that includes two smugglers.

Funny one, and in theory... sure.

Suppose we both hold the exact same deck:
3 Schemes, 3 Scrying Pools, 3 King's Courts, 3 Highways, 3 Smugglers, 3 Chancellors, 1 Chapel.
Kings Court and Highway piles are both depleted. It's your turn, but I bought nothing on my last turn so no smuggling for you now.
You can't buy a province, because then I smuggle all the other provinces for free. You can't buy anything else either, because then I empty whatever pile it is and buy a province myself.

In practice however... I'd go for no.

[dondon151]

I buy a Potion and start on the Vineyards 

[ednever]

And it still ended in 18 turns!

Was it the right decision for neither player to pick up Provinces?  Even double embargoed, it's worth a net +4 VP.  Two Curses makes it a scary proposition though.

Duchy exists...

Possession can cause this kind of protracted game too, if both players go for the "build something that can play Possession consistently but can't quite buy Provinces" approach. You can't pick up a Province from your opponent's deck, and if you try to pick up economy instead, your opponent will be able to get Provinces from yours.

Duchy was embargoed too, and neither player bought a Duchy!  And even if Duchy were not embargoed, the Province still grants slightly more net VP.  But in that case, not having two extra dead cards makes the Duchy more attractive.

I thought about going Province - but picking up three dead cards for 4 VP didn't seem worth it - when I wanted to play 5 Monuments every turn. Just missing one turn of that would make it not worth it. At least that was my thought at the time.

Ed

[eHalcyon]

And it still ended in 18 turns!

Was it the right decision for neither player to pick up Provinces?  Even double embargoed, it's worth a net +4 VP.  Two Curses makes it a scary proposition though.

Duchy exists...

Possession can cause this kind of protracted game too, if both players go for the "build something that can play Possession consistently but can't quite buy Provinces" approach. You can't pick up a Province from your opponent's deck, and if you try to pick up economy instead, your opponent will be able to get Provinces from yours.

Duchy was embargoed too, and neither player bought a Duchy!  And even if Duchy were not embargoed, the Province still grants slightly more net VP.  But in that case, not having two extra dead cards makes the Duchy more attractive.

I thought about going Province - but picking up three dead cards for 4 VP didn't seem worth it - when I wanted to play 5 Monuments every turn. Just missing one turn of that would make it not worth it. At least that was my thought at the time.

Ed

I get that.  I'm just wondering if it's the correct choice.  Not saying it isn't -- genuinely wondering what the answer is.

[Grujah]

Unless a friend of yours got spoiled, shouldn't it be "stalemate"? (one word?).